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paisleyfox
Feb 23, 2009

My dog thinks he's a pretty lady.




The Tighter the Curl, the More Concentrated the Evil

Dogs had to come from somewhere, right? This is the thread that talks about the ones closest to their point of origin - the wolf. The domesticated dog has been around for roughly 15,000 years, and has been used to help man in things from protection and hunting to companionship, beasts of burden, and meat/fur. Of course it’s hard to pin point exactly when wolf and man began working together, and exactly why, but it’s obvious that both sides had something to gain from the relationship. Taming the beasts also meant that subsequent offspring would become more tame with each generation, as well as showing different behaviors from their wolf ancestors, ones that would be more beneficial and pleasing to humans. Over time, behaviors as well as appearances would differ from the original wolf (a recent example would be the Domesticating of the Silver Fox project in Russia.) It wasn’t until later that aesthetics over function would be selectively chosen and sought after.

Many of these dogs have kept that wolf-like appearance as well as more of a primitive attitude that differs from those of the everyday willing to please Labs, but they still have very uniquely dog-like personalities and tendencies. Scientists once thought dogs originated from wolves in Asia, but recent studies have found all dogs share most DNA sequences with Middle Eastern canids. It's possible that dogs originated from wolves in the Middle East, but that different breeds had different outside wolf influences from wherever they were from. Meaning, dogs from America have influences from American Wolves while dogs from Asia have influences from Asian Wolves, etc. That is also to say that the early domestication of the dog (and even later development of specific breeds) were bred and cross bred back into wolf gene pools. The relationship to wolves wasn't clear cut in that dogs from region A are more wolfy than dogs from region B, but it's rather broken down into specific breeds, regardless of location. So, that's why the dogs in the "primitive/ancient" group are made up of dogs from Asia and the Middle east, and why some breeds from those regions aren't included; location doesn't matter, the specific breeds do. (nature, vol 464)

Ancient Breeds include:

Afghan Hound
Akita
Alaskan Malamute
Basenji
Chow Chow
Dingo
Lhasa Apso
New Guinea Singing Dog
Pekingese
Samoyed
Siberian Husky
Shar-Pei
Shiba Inu
Shih Tsu
Tibetan Terrier



The bolded from the above list are the ones that happen to be linked most closely to their wolf ancestors within this primitive group (not all primitive or ancient breeds are included in this list, just the more popular or recognized ones.) As you can see, they are pretty much either Asian or Middle Eastern in origin, and just so happen to be the more wolf-like or spitz type dog. This thread will focus on more toward the spitz breeds, but is still open to all primitive discussions.

They’re so pretty, buy why won’t they listen to me? DON’T THEY LOVE ME?!
In a word, yes, but they’re complete assholes. These dogs thrive off of bribes (toys, treats and less so, pets and attention), and the NiLiF method of training, because if there is nothing in it for them, they just don’t see the point. These dogs are in it to win it, and the “it” is instant, personal gratification. Even if you ask something of them, it’s usually most effective to make it seem like it was their idea from the beginning. Think of a toddler perpetually in their terrible twos/MINE stage, and that’s what its like to deal with these dogs. They’re moody, aloof, drama queens, sensitive snowflakes, and at times, snarky. Great socialization with these dogs are absolutely the key, since without it they’ll turn into neurotic, untrusting dogs that most likely will not get along with others without a solid foundation.

These dogs will always have something better to do than what you want them to. Nothing against you personally (or perhaps it is), but these dogs long for the great outdoors, the wild adventures, the great prey, the new smells and think they will find their way back home when it’s over eventually. Maybe. If they don’t find something else more interesting over there, first. With many of these dogs being used at one point for hunting purposes, their prey drive is higher than others. It creates a sort of tunnel vision where they MIGHT hear you, but they’ll be there in just a minute, there’s this thing over here, and before you know it they’ve taken off god knows where. And to most, nothing is more fun than a session of “chase me through the traffic!” when they realize you’re coming after them. That’s why the only way to be sure you still have a dog that hasn’t been lost to the dangers and distractions of the outside world is to make sure they are ALWAYS on a leash whenever they aren’t in a secured area, and harnesses or martingales are highly recommended, as well as real walls and secure doors. These dogs are also problem solvers and possible escape artists, so proper door manners (i.e. waiting away from the door when open) and high, secure fences are the only way to help contain them, since recall is almost never an option.

Goodness me, why would anyone ever own one of these hellbeasts?
Well, you’ve gotta admit, being gorgeous certainly doesn’t hurt their case. But many people feel like a dog that doesn’t have to be all in your face, needy for attention and affection every waking moment is quite appealing, and some people just get them and all their cat-like tendencies of being the biggest douche on the planet. But all of that aside, these dogs tend to be one person, or one family sort of dogs which in turn has made some of these breeds some of the most loyal dogs around and have been prized for such qualities. They tend to be more reserved and not waggy “pet me pet me!” like other dogs are around strangers, but are affectionate and playful around those they know well. These dogs also had a function, being hunters for things like boar, bear, rabbit, quail, pheasant, etc., as well as working dogs for hauling (like sled dogs) and while not all are still used for such functions, some are and are considered to be a valuable tool for these things even today.

In addition to being described as a cat-like, independent dog, primitive breeds all seem to share a habit of grooming themselves as well as staying clean. These dogs will literally lick themselves like felines and seem to not like wet and dirt, and will usually try go out of their way to avoid such things. This fastidious nature makes the necessity of bathing far and few between, and lends to a happy and clean home. Save for all that fur...



HOLY poo poo DO THEY SHED
Many of these primitive breeds have something called a “double coat.” A double coat is a coarse top coat while having a softer, plush undercoat and is generally referred to a “fur” coat, while many “single coat” animals are referred to having a “hair” coat. Dogs with a double coat have a fur that helps insulate them from both heat and cold, debris, the sun, water, in addition to making them huggably soft and generally ultra fluffy. :3: These dogs do a fairly routine shedding all year round as well as something called “blowing their coat” twice a year. The typical year-long shed can be compared to a cat’s routine shedding, but a coat blow is like a literal fur EXPLOSION, and are not for the faint of heart or allergy ridden. People not used to the breed are surprised by the clumps that fall off of these dogs (called “tufting”) and concerned citizens might even ask if the dog is ill, since the coat will look patchy and almost mangy during this time. A brushing with a shedding blade, generally every few days, if not done more frequently, is usually enough to tame the massive hair tidal wave that will engulf the owner. Some may also require a professional “blow out” by a groomer and additional brushings with a shedding rake or slicker brush.

Typically done when the weather starts getting warmer, and again while getting colder, the undercoat sheds with great abandon in order to make way for a warmer or cooler undercoat, depending on the climate needs and will last anywhere from 2 weeks to 2 months. Dogs with double coats also living in a warmer or cooler climate year round will have a coat that matches their needs. For example; a dog living in the southern United States will not have as thick of a coat as a dog living up somewhere in Saschachuan, even in the dead of winter. For this reason, dogs with double coats should NOT be shaved, as their natural protection from all elements will not only be lost, but their coat will become damaged and will not grow back in the same way.

“My puppy is trying to eat my wife and child, he’s just so aggressive!”
Many times play is mistaken for fighting with the primitive breeds. Style of play tends to be more rough than other dogs, (charges, butt bumps, wrestling, mouthing) as well as coupled with a lot of vocal sounds and flashy teeth, but it’s all a show. Posture and body language is a way you can tell play from fight. Relaxed mouths, ears and stance, as well as the obligatory butt in the air and rolling around are all signs of play, no matter how vocal or wolverine-like they might sound.

Examples of play can be found here and here.

Of course, this isn't to say these dogs don't fight, but there is generally a finer line between the two with more primitive breeds, and it's best for an experienced eye to judge when rough housing gets too far.

Common Health Issues
Many of these breeds tend to suffer from three common ailments; patella luxation, hip dysplasia and rampant allergies, both food and envrionmental. The best way to ensure your dog is not affected by such ailments is to go through a reputable breeder that health tests before breeding their field or show proven dogs and can show and explain what the results mean as well as why they chose that particular pairing. Treatment includes supplements, low impact exercise and surgery for joint problems and a strict allergen free diet as well as things from wiping paws to flea treatments to Benedryl and allergy shots.

Links to Breed Specific Posts:

Wolf
Wolf Hybrid
New Wolf-like Breeds

Husky
Akita
Malamute
Shar Pei
Shiba Inu

paisleyfox fucked around with this message at 07:06 on Mar 28, 2011

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paisleyfox
Feb 23, 2009

My dog thinks he's a pretty lady.


There, you happy? :colbert:

Anyway, WolfBag and I will be writing up posts on specific breeds, though feel free to contribute things as you see fit! We've got a good chunk of them covered, but there are still others we may need some volunteers for. We'll shout out to let you guys know.

Now get to posting!

rivals
Apr 5, 2004

REBIRTH OF HARDCORE PRIDE!
YES. FINALLY. And of course it goes up while I'm at work. Expect tons of videos and pictures of Kaidan tonight. Also I will post thoughts, stories, etc as I have time throughout the day :neckbeard:

We also just had the pleasure of Kaidan blowing his coat again, in fact it's not quite done yet still a few more days I'm guessing. We've filled probably 5 grocery bags completely stuffed with his fur, he looks so much different now. It's even funnier because the parts that still have undercoat are his neck/shoulders and then behind his back legs. It adds to his :downs:

rivals fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Sep 1, 2010

adventure in the sandbox
Nov 24, 2005



Things change


Hooray!!! This should be an awesome thread. Looking forward to the Akita breed post most of all :D And pictures of everyone's primitive dogs :3:

One question though from the OP: "dogs from Asia have influences from Red Wolves." Red wolves only live in North America. All Asian wolves are grey wolf subspecies.

pastor of muppets
Aug 21, 2007

We were somewhere around the Living Hive, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold...

Prettiest loving douchebags I've ever met. :3:

My only direct experience with any primitive breed was my aunt's Akita when I was growing up. She got him as a puppy and prompty stuffed him in the backyard where he lived all his life.

My grandmother, who my aunt lived with, was always intensely paranoid that one of us would bitten and so none of us kids were allowed in the back yard, ever. Sometimes she would have me feed him, and I always felt so bad because the poor guy was so starved for attention that he would be thrilled to see me every time, and I would pet him as much as I could before my grandmother would shriek at me not to touch him. It would be the only human contact he would have all day...

Poor Asa. Sometimes he would see me walking around inside and start "arroooo"-ing at the door. Never got walked, never got played with, died lonely and in pain from hip dysplasia in the yard at the age of 13. :(

I don't have any contact with that side of the family anymore (that's a whole other E/N) but apparently my aunt went out and got a Chow to replace him as living lawn ornament. This dog actually ended up biting my 8-year-old sister in the face.

I wanna see lots of happy, healthy Akitas in this thread. Please oblige me so I can forget about my family and their lovely attitude towards pets.

Gonktastic
Jan 18, 2007

I swear, Samoyeds are the most under-represented breed in PI. Therefore I will post lots of fluffy pictures. :3: They are also probably the least assholeish of primitive dogs. They wuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuv you! They don't listen to a drat word you say though.

This is a young Bear:
He has since filled out and has a mane to make a lion jealous. Unfortunately, he's just tooo big for conformation.



Adult Bear and 10 week old Kodiac:
It's a puppy :3:


Bear is always next to you, under you, or by you. Kody is much more of a primitive style dog in that he's very aloof and independant. He howls very well. He especially hates when we sit around a fire and will lie off where it's not so bright. Bear is much more of a "family" dog. If your hand is not at all times petting him, he will give you the saddest drat look in the world with his head on your knee or the couch arm. They're also the talkingest dogs I've ever met. They will talk to you ALL day.

I would mute it because my teenager voice is very annoying. Samoyed puppy in snow is the most :3: thing I still think I've ever seen. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEOX8ZWXoFs

rivals
Apr 5, 2004

REBIRTH OF HARDCORE PRIDE!
The hose picture is so loving :3: I love Samoyeds, they are very pretty. I used to live near a family that had 2 though they were left in the front yard all day every day with a 3 ft tall fence. Every time I'd walk by they'd stand with their front paws on the fence and say hi to me.

Carebear
Apr 16, 2003

If you stay here too long, you'll end up frying your brain. Yes, you will. No, you will...not. Yesno you will won't.
Rush is a wannabe dingo. The explanation of personality fits Rush like a glove. He's a highly food motivated glutton inside, can be moody, and is easily distracted and forgets about all his training while on walks and oh god what is that and that and what's over here?

Of course I don't know for sure if he really is part of this category of dogs, but its my best guess. At least he's definitely a partial fit.

Also the fur. Oh god, the fur. Though, he's a mix so he doesn't shed quite as much as other dogs will in this category.





But in the end, he's just another retarded mutty dawg.

Errant Gin Monks
Oct 2, 2009

"Yeah..."
- Marshawn Lynch
:hawksin:
I have a question, where does the Border Collie come in? I have had 2 Border Collies (none now, just have bunnies) and when it comes to the movement and stance of the dogs, BCs seem more wolfish then most well known breeds.

Aside from being large and completely insane, I loved my friends wolf/BC mix.

But how far removed from primitive is a Border Collie or Australian Sheperd?

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

The Siberian Husky: Large Breed Worker in a Compact Body

History:

The Siberian Husky got its start among most other sledding breeds, with arctic tribes in North East Asia. Our best guess as to the actual domestication of the dog is vague, but somehow the dogs figured out they get easy meals if they stick around humans, and the people figured out dogs were cheap labor. So, they developed a loose bond, where the dogs were actually "wild" for most of the year, but when food would go scarce around winter (conveniently enough, when the people needed the dogs for sled work) they'd migrate back to towns where the townspeople would throw them on a lead and keep them to work for the season.

Over time the different tribes developed different needs for their dogs, and this is where the different breeds developed. Huskies in particular come from the Chukchi tribe who lived along the Pacific and Arctic coasts. Where other tribes further inland used reindeer for hauling and therefor developed their dogs into herders, the Chukchi used their dogs themselves for hauling heavy loads long distances. What they developed was a compact, energetic sled dog that had a body built not only for endurance but also speed.

It was the compact nature of the dog that got it laughed at when it arrived in Alaska in 1908. where the dogs mushers were accustomed to seeing were similar to Malamutes with big bone and long legs, weighing around 80lbs, huskies were nearly half that size at around 40-50lbs with a comparably smaller frame. what the Alaskan mushers didn't realize is that the smaller, sleeker structure not only lent itself to hauling but was ideal for endurance and speed not found in their own dogs.

Here's an excerpt from the Siberian Husky Club of America on the breed coming to Alaska:

SHCA posted:

The Siberian Husky arrived in North America in the fall of 1908 without fanfare. Most other dogs had taken the more conventional route to our shores across the Atlantic Ocean from countries where they had become well established breeds. This unknown breed of Northern dog, however, sneaked through a remote back door to America quietly and unobtrusively at a point where the peninsulas of Asia and America almost meet.

Imported to Nome, Alaska by the Russian fur trader William Goosak, the team of Siberians was to be entered in the 1909 All Alaska Sweepstakes race of 408 miles with its $10,000 first prize. No one was impressed with Goosak's little dogs, weighing only 40 to 52 pounds, much smaller compared to their longer legged, heavier competitors. The people of Nome referred to the imports as "Siberian Rats."

Siberian Huskies have taken top honors in many races in the ensuing years, but their first race run on American soil will always remain, by far, their most important. Goosak persuaded Louis Thurstrop, a Danish sailor, to drive his team. This team, even though the odds were 100 to 1 against it in the betting, made a tremendous showing and nearly won the race, placing third. Rumor ran rampant in Nome that gamblers had paid off the driver before he reached the finish in order to save them from ruin. It was said that had Thurstrop won, it would have broken the Bank of Nome.

From there, the popularity of those little "Siberian Rats" skyrocketed. The race, and subsequent races where more mushers opted for the smaller dogs, showcased exactly how efficient the Siberian's structure really was.

Although by the 1920s Siberian dogs were well known throughout Alaska, the breed wouldn't gain national popularity until after the infamous Serum Run (which we honor with the Iditarod) in 1925:

SHCA posted:

In January 1925, Nome was gripped in a spreading diphtheria epidemic. The closest life-saving serum was over 600 miles away, so a dog team relay was formed to hasten its arrival. Seppala left Nome eastbound with 20 Siberians to meet the serum in Nulato, over 300 miles away on the Yukon River. Due to increased urgency for the medicine, the dog team relay continued west beyond Nulato and Seppala met a team carrying the serum package on the eastern shore of Norton Sound. In spite of already having run all day, and in the midst of a blizzard, Seppala turned his tired team around and, with his great leader Togo, made the perilous run back across the Sound to Golovin. A team led by Balto, and driven by Gunnar Kaasen, completed the last leg of the relay. A statue of Balto stands in New York's Central Park, honoring all of the sled dogs of the Serum Run.



It was Seppala that developed the Siberian Husky into what we know today. Following the success of the Serum Run, Seppala took his team on a tour around the country to showcase the famous dogs. This helped the rest of the country to become aware of the small, Siberian dogs. While in New England, Seppala entered in races similar to those in Alaska, and not surprising, his team did amazing compared to the other, larger dogs. After all this, Seppala settled down and
started a breeding plan with his dogs, not only focusing on performance like the Chukchi did, but also on giving the huskies a cohesive, physical standard that would actually set them apart as a breed.

The Siberian Standard and the Working Dog:

The Siberian Husky Standard posted:

The Siberian Husky is a medium-sized working dog, quick and light on his feet and free and graceful in action. His moderately compact and well-furred body, erect ears and brush tail suggest his Northern heritage. His characteristic gait is smooth and seemingly effortless. He performs his original function in harness most capably, carrying a light load at a moderate speed over great distances. His body proportions and form reflect this basic balance of power, speed and endurance. The males of the Siberian Husky breed are masculine but never coarse; the bitches are feminine but without weakness of structure. In proper condition, with muscle firm
and well developed, the Siberian Husky does not carry excess weight.

As said, the standard for Siberians is rooted in their job as a working sled dog. When comparing huskies to "sprint racing" sled dogs seen in most sporting kennels today, it's important to note the difference in function. The key to the Siberian's structure is endurance. All of the angles set forth are meant to give the dog the best edge possible when running and pulling. Where sprint racing Alaskan Huskies (the mixed dogs used by mushers today) are bred for top speeds, they actually are at a disadvantage when it comes to longer hauls where actual loads are concerned. A fantastic example of this is was from a race back in the dawning of the breed which was recreated in the 80s, but using the sprint-bred dogs of today:

SHCA posted:

On the strength of their showing of speed and, particularly, endurance under the most trying conditions, Fox Maule Ramsay, a young Scotsman then in Nome and a competitor himself in the 1909 race, went to Siberia in the summer of 1909. Travelling up the Anadyr River to the trading settlement of Markovo, Ramsay procured around 60 of the best specimens of the breed he could find. He entered three teams of Siberians in the 1910 All Alaska Sweepstakes race, one for each of his uncles and one he drove himself. The team entered in the name of Col. Charles Ramsay and driven by John "Iron Man" Johnson, a Swedish Finn, came in first with an elapsed time of 74 hours, 14 minutes, 37 seconds, the best ever time for the 408 mile race held annually through 1917. Fox Ramsay came in second. The third Siberian team, entered for Col. Stuart and driven by Charles Johnson, placed 4th. (The 75th anniversary All Alaska Sweepstakes race was held in 1983, following the same trail and rules as the original race. The winner was 5 time Iditarod champion Rick Swenson. His time was over 10 hours slower than Iron Man Johnson's 1910 winning time.)

While it's true that there isn't much use for the Siberian in the original function of the dog, it's still important for people passionate about the breed to work towards these goals and remember why the breed was developed in the first place, as opposed to changing the breed for the "fashion" of sprinting.

These dogs are examples of Alaskan Huskies, bred for sprinting. Note how their structure is much more slender, similar more to sighthounds than hauling dogs. While they have tremendous speed in short bursts, they would lack the stamina of actually hauling a decent load for a long distance.



The Siberian Husky Show Dog:

While there are definitely differences between kennels that work their dogs as opposed to those that only show, Huskies are one of the few breeds that haven't been warped too much by the show ring. The one main difference you'll notice, however, is size, particularly in the leg. Since the Husky is toted as a compact dog, it's been a trend in America lately to prize dogs with a shorter leg in the show ring. While it does look a bit flashier, looking closely at the short-legged dogs reveals their proportions are a bit off as a result. However, although you'll definitely see dogs gain their championships that have a bit of a stubby leg, you'll also see well proportioned dogs winning, as well. It seems that, like always, it comes down to politics and the judge's personal preference.

Example of a Siberian Husky from a kennel that works their dogs (many dogs from this line take part in the Iditarod). This dog is well balanced and would likely have effective movement while pulling. This dog has her American championship.


Example of a Siberian Husky from a show kennel. One of the more extreme examples of shorter leg on a dog in relation to the body. Although he is a good example of "compact", his movement would likely not be as effective for puling as other huskies. This dog has his American and Canadian championships.


The Siberian Husky House Dog:

It's no secret that huskies make difficult pets, like all primitive breed dogs. If you look at the reasons for those behaviors, however, it makes living with them not only manageable, but rewarding! You just have to remember you need to make a lot of concessions with your routine and training in order to compensate for the work ethic that makes huskies fantastic sled dogs.

In order to understand how to handle a husky, you need to look at the traits they need to do their job. Obviously, the first think you think of is running! Huskies need to have the stamina and energy to run pretty much all day in harness. This results in an athletic, energetic, downright bouncy dog. A husky's energy level obviously needs to be channeled, but even with regular exercise they tend to be much more active around the house than a "normal" dog, even those with working or sporting backgrounds. They constantly want to see what's going on, especially with their families. They're also very jumpy and sensitive in that things other dogs wouldn't even glance at will catch a husky's attention. Since this is such a different activity level than most people are used to, it's important to spend a lot of time with huskies before actually bringing one home to figure out if this type of behavior is a good fit for your home.

Another typical husky trait that many people are unaware of is that they were actually bred to ignore commands. That is, they were bred to ignore commands from a musher that may, unknowingly, try sending his team on to thin ice or some other such danger. The ability for sled dogs to think for themselves and put their own needs first is a life or death necessity out on the ice. At home, however, this manifests itself as a dog who goes through every thought process with a "What's in it for me?" attitude. (The same can be said for EVERY primitive breed dog.) Because of this, training needs to be kept fun, interesting, and most of all, rewarding. While you need to remain firm and consistent with your training or your dog will walk all over you, huskies and other primitive dogs are not the types to go out of their way to try to please you, so forms of training which are mainly correction based just won't cut it.

So, you have a dog that likes to run and doesn't really care what you think. What does that mean? Keep your dog on a leash! This goes for ALL primitive breeds, but doubly so for sled dogs. If they get it in their head that they want to bolt, they are NOT going to hear you, no matter how fantastic their recall or training. This is probably the number one reason huskies wind up in rescue, because they manage to get out, run to their hearts content, then get lost. If you want a dog that you can take hiking off leash, this is not the breed for you.

Although those are the big ones, here are some other husky-specific traits that may turn you away (or towards!) the breed:

-Since huskies are bred to work in packs, they are super friendly dogs. They will not guard your stuff, but they probably will give an intruder tons of kisses.

-Since huskies have that natural pack nature, they do well with other dogs. However, this attitude can result in a very dominant dog that wishes to "rule" the pack. Therefor, you need to choose your dogs wisely in order to keep the peace. This can really be said for any dogs, however.

-All that energy can manifest itself in ways that are counter productive to a happy home. Bored huskies happily find things to do like destroying your home and yard (huskies are diggers!) It's important to cut this behavior off by giving your husky plenty of exercise, plenty of mental stimulation, and constant obedience training.

-Huskies shed. A LOT. Don't listen to anything that says, "Oh, they only blow their coats once or twice a year." What they mean is, "Oh, they shed like normal dogs all year round, but it only gets REALLY bad once or twice a year. Or more, if you have a nice, climate controlled home."

-Along with the "never off leash" thing, it's important to keep huskies well contained. They are smart, and they are MUCH more interested in things outside your fence/house than inside. They can dig under or climb over fences with ease, so if you want to let your dog outside unleashed, make sure the fence is at LEAST 6ft, but ideally more like 8ft and that you monitor your dog at all times.

-Huskies, like all primitive breeds, have a high prey drive. While it's possible to work with dogs with pets at home and have them coexist, it's important to note that you'll likely still run into trouble outside with strays, rabbits, squirrels, etc. You'll need to take extra care when training out on walks to keep your dog from darting at any small, fast moving furry thing it sees.

-Huskies make a lot of odd sounds. Everyone's aware with how they can howl, but they also tend to talk and "grumble" in ways that may even sound intimidating. This is another reason to visit with as many huskies as possible ahead of time, so you can learn to understand what the different sounds mean.

Health, food, and metabolism:

Despite the breed's popularity and high breeding levels, huskies remain a surprisingly healthy breed. Although it is important that breeders check at the very least check the dog's hips through OFA (or similar organization, after 2 years) and eyes through CERF (done yearly), there are really no genetic problems prone to the breed as in so many others. Because of this, huskies are a fantastic breed to acquire through rescue! Since even BYB dogs lean towards the healthy side, it's not necessary to either go to a good breeder or have a deep pocket book for future health issues.

The Siberian's job and breeding again manifests itself when considering the dogs' diet. Since huskies are athletes and bred to work for so long, the dogs have developed a very efficient metabolism. This, conveniently enough for pet owners, means having to feed less! :dance: For example, my 55lb husky only eats about 1-1/2 cups of high-quality food a day.

This metabolism can also cause huskies to have a sensitive stomach. White meat and fish are always safe bets when feeding, although some dogs can easily tolerate red meat as well. If you do feed red meat, however, it's best to split the diet about half red and half white meat, since it's easier to digest. You may have to try a few different foods until you find something that works well with your dog, but remember that it takes time for a dog's system to acclimate to a new food, so give a decent amount of time before switching to something new.

Huskies (and primitive breeds in general, from what I understand) are all good candidates for raw diet since they are genetically very close to wolves. A properly fed raw diet makes for healthy coat, teeth, and muscle, but it's important to make sure your dog is getting the proper, balanced nutrition. I personally don't feed raw (I don't trust myself to do it right, plus I don't have the space for it) but it's definitely a good option for a lot of husky owners and if you feel up to the challenge, it's well worth looking in to.

Resources:

So, you've read all this and are still considering a husky? When you're done questioning your sanity, you may want to check some of these out:

http://shca.org/
http://www.siberianrescue.com/
http://www.huskyrescue.org/ (where my husky came from, in Northern IL :dance: )
The Siberian Husky: Live the Adventure, by Margaret A. Koehler, great info on every aspect of the breed

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

KenMornignstar posted:

I have a question, where does the Border Collie come in? I have had 2 Border Collies (none now, just have bunnies) and when it comes to the movement and stance of the dogs, BCs seem more wolfish then most well known breeds.

Aside from being large and completely insane, I loved my friends wolf/BC mix.

But how far removed from primitive is a Border Collie or Australian Sheperd?

Herding dogs are actually next in line after primitive dogs as far as genetic distance from wolves. What you need to look at (when thinking about any breed, in general) is how much human intervention has changed the dog. This can usually give you a decent grasp on how far away their DNA is from wolves.

As far as Border Collies go, you're right, their stalking motions are the same as how wolves hunt. However, the difference comes in when the dog stops short of actually attacking. The general prey motion is, "Stalk -> Chase -> Grasp -> Kill -> Eat." Human intervention has used these skills and, through selective breeding, halted the process at convenient points, while also breeding for biddability (i.e. the dog's willingness to listen to a handler). For example, herding dogs will stalk and chase, but generally stop short of grasping (unless you cound nipping at heels). Sighthounds will go through the whole motion, just short of eating the prey, since they're used in hunting. Retrievers will stop at the grasp, so they don't destroy the prey they're retrieving.

In short, every dog behavior can be traced to some sort of behavior in wolves. It's just that these primitive breeds still have MOST of those behaviors intact. ;)

notsoape
Jul 19, 2009

WWDD?
Awesome thread :3:. I have a kind of nerdy question - how exactly do you differentiate 'sprint' and 'endurance' in sled dawg terms? I'm guessing what's a sprint to a husky team is pretty enduring for every single other breed that is not a sled dog :v:. Where does the Iditarod fall?

Kerfuffle
Aug 16, 2007

The sky calls to us~
There needs to be some finnish spitz cred in this thread. :colbert: But no one in PI has one that I know of, and I only know the one a close friend owns. She's out of shape, but I love her. If all Fins are like her it makes me seriously consider one. Likes things her way, doesn't get in your face, but she's VERY food motivated and will do anything you ask for a treat. Shame they didn't know what she was when she was a puppy though. :( She's very dog aggressive, but at least she's great with all people situations.

Kerfuffle fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Sep 2, 2010

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

notsoape posted:

Awesome thread :3:. I have a kind of nerdy question - how exactly do you differentiate 'sprint' and 'endurance' in sled dawg terms? I'm guessing what's a sprint to a husky team is pretty enduring for every single other breed that is not a sled dog :v:. Where does the Iditarod fall?

I don't remember exactly off the top of my head the differences in terms of miles, but I DO know that while the "sprints" are seriously still very long, they're under controlled situations (for the most part, anyway, as much as you can control the wild) and with a minimal load. The longer hauls are more functional, in that the dogs are expected to take a bunch of gear with them and they may be going over more unknown terrain, for longer distances (i.e. actual work vs. sport).

Interestingly enough, the Iditarod really is ridiculously long. I mean, if you think about it, the original dogs that ran were doing so in a relay style. It was a team of teams, passing the load at each checkpoint. It's nuts that it's done with just one team doing the whole thing, now, and I actually find it interesting that the sprinting Alaskans are the teams that typically do better with the race, despite this fact. However, the teams aren't toting a heavy load of antitoxins, either. ;) So really, I dunno.

I guess the best way to put it is Alaskans will RUNRUNRUNRUNRUN!!! where Siberians will pace themselves better. v :) v

Sparklepants
May 18, 2010

let's get creative!
I saw that you had a Norwegian Elkhound picture, is that in fact an ancient breed as well? I'm just curious as my family used to have one and he was neurotic as hell.

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

What do you think about the controversy that surrounds modern sled racing? I hear that it's pretty common for dogs to die at the biggest racing events, and that a handful do every year.

I also have heard some pretty terrible stories about the neglect that a lot of sled dogs suffer when not working -- tied on chains (with teeth worn down to nubs from chewing metal), emaciated, the whole nine yards.

Sledding has historically been hard work, and results in hard lives for the dogs, but it's difficult to reconcile these dogs continuing to live so roughly in this day and age.

paisleyfox
Feb 23, 2009

My dog thinks he's a pretty lady.


adventure in the sandbox posted:

One question though from the OP: "dogs from Asia have influences from Red Wolves." Red wolves only live in North America. All Asian wolves are grey wolf subspecies.

Haha, I'm an idiot. :downs: Thanks for that.

Sparklepants posted:

I saw that you had a Norwegian Elkhound picture, is that in fact an ancient breed as well? I'm just curious as my family used to have one and he was neurotic as hell.

Actually, I believe it's an Akita picture I used, but yes Elkhounds are ancient spitz breeds. :3:

notsoape
Jul 19, 2009

WWDD?

WolfensteinBag posted:

I don't remember exactly off the top of my head the differences in terms of miles, but I DO know that while the "sprints" are seriously still very long, they're under controlled situations (for the most part, anyway, as much as you can control the wild) and with a minimal load. The longer hauls are more functional, in that the dogs are expected to take a bunch of gear with them and they may be going over more unknown terrain, for longer distances (i.e. actual work vs. sport).

Interestingly enough, the Iditarod really is ridiculously long. I mean, if you think about it, the original dogs that ran were doing so in a relay style. It was a team of teams, passing the load at each checkpoint. It's nuts that it's done with just one team doing the whole thing, now, and I actually find it interesting that the sprinting Alaskans are the teams that typically do better with the race, despite this fact. However, the teams aren't toting a heavy load of antitoxins, either. ;) So really, I dunno.

I guess the best way to put it is Alaskans will RUNRUNRUNRUNRUN!!! where Siberians will pace themselves better. v :) v

Thanks for the explanation! Here are a couple of pictures from my aunt and uncle's sled dogging experience in northern sweden (I believe)





I do have some pictures that are not just butts. I believe it was a week long excursion, camping out each night. I remember them saying that they found it incredibly physically draining just keeping the sleds upright, esp. round corners and so forth. They were too tired each night to stay up and watch the Northern Lights and didn't see a thing! And sledding over ice creaking and cracking beneath you in the dark was terrifying. And the dogs were awesome. :3:

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

a life less posted:

What do you think about the controversy that surrounds modern sled racing? I hear that it's pretty common for dogs to die at the biggest racing events, and that a handful do every year.

It's pretty much like anything dog related, in that there are people that take great care of their animals and really worry about their welfare, and there are others who don't. :( There are actually rescues in Alaska that deal primarily with these cases, and I read an article once that while they didn't want to name names, they had a lot of issues with some very predominant people in the Iditarod.

I definitely feel that there needs to be more regulation in the way the dogs are kept and how hard they're worked (like I said, it's ONE team running the Iditarod, not a relay) but it's hard to pass such things in Alaska where, unfortunately, they take their own wildlife for granted most of the time. It would be a shame to have the sport, with such an awesome history, fall under scrutiny and eventually phased out just because some of the people are jerks.

At least the GOOD teams will tell you that they have the utmost concern for their dogs, because they are the athletes. If they don't perform well, the musher doesn't, and performance is obviously connected to how the dogs are kept and cared for. Unfortunately, not everyone feels that way. :(

I also definitely wouldn't equate "Hard Work" with "Hard Lives". Sled dogs are bred to LOVELOVELOVE to RUNRUNRUN! They absolutely live for their work, and if they're bred correctly and conditioned well, it's no more effort to them than to other working dogs doing other jobs. Ideally, although sled dogs are obviously kept in outdoor enclosures, they should still live fulfilled lives. It's similar to notsoape's family's beagle pack. Yeah, it's a lot of dogs, yeah, they don't do a hell of a lot other than their job, but they're still very happy doggies. :)


Editing to add that even without working the dogs harder than they should, the sport itself is dangerous. Before my uncle moved to Chicago, he lived in Alaska and raised racing huskies. He told me this horrible story about a yearling on his team that had really great promise, but they ran into a freakin moose or caribou or something, and the dog was badly injured while they were out on the trail. He had to put the dog down himself right then. :(

WolfensteinBag fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Sep 1, 2010

Gonktastic
Jan 18, 2007

So the Samoyeds are my dad's dogs, which means I only have limited pictures of them since I moved out. One awesome thing I forgot to mention is that he has them well trained as sled dogs, despite living in a suburb outside of San Francisco. I'm sure he's regarded as quite the eccentric by the whole neighborhood.

Since it never snows where we live, he's taught the Samoyeds (team of two males) to pull a scooter. :haw: They have a harness that attaches to a three wheeled scooter and they will run and run and run. He tries to take them out a couple times a week. I 'll try to get pictures and post them because it is really awesome to see suburban pets doing what they were bred to do. They LOVE it. Plus it's hilarious to imagine a man in a snobby suburb being pulled down the streets and bike paths by two marshmallow polar bear dogs. :3: When we go to places where it snows, they are in absolute heaven. They will pull a sled, or go skijoring every day. Of course, they don't always listen and sometimes like to run the wrong direction or sometimes get into a hopeless tangle. This is why we love them, right?

And yeah, this:

WolfensteinBag posted:

Sled dogs are bred to LOVELOVELOVE to RUNRUNRUN!
I'm not as knowledgeable about Sammys as everyone is here about breeds, so I hope someone will do a great writeup. But they are sled dogs as well as family dogs and man do I love the fluffy bastards. My boyfriend and I are trying to figure out what breeds to look into and I just can't imagine anything living up to my fluffballs.

Gonktastic fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Sep 1, 2010

rivals
Apr 5, 2004

REBIRTH OF HARDCORE PRIDE!

WolfensteinBag posted:

I also definitely wouldn't equate "Hard Work" with "Hard Lives". Sled dogs are bred to LOVELOVELOVE to RUNRUNRUN! They absolutely live for their work, and if they're bred correctly and conditioned well, it's no more effort to them than to other working dogs doing other jobs.

I completely agree with this. When Kaidan gets the zoomies or when I run him on the beach you can just see it kick in. He just LOVES running, especially when I'm on leash behind him. It's hard to describe, it just seems to click for him and he is off like it's the one thing he was meant to do. I've never had another dog just go like that the way that he seems to when we're in a situation like that. I really wish that I could working with him on pulling and sledding because I think he would absolutely excel at it. His hips are definitely improving lately though, so maybe I'll get a chance to work with some light things on a field with him or something.

EDIT: Expect some "talking and grumbling" videos over the next week or so. Kaidan has this down pat.

rivals fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Sep 1, 2010

paisleyfox
Feb 23, 2009

My dog thinks he's a pretty lady.


Just had to share this.

While I was looking through pictures on my computer for something completely unrelated, I found a picture of my husband's old dog, Silver Hawk.



Hawk was one of the best goddamn dogs ever. He was an American Eskimo that my husband picked out as a puppy when he himself was about 2. That dog was everything a fine Eskie should be, though could never be shown because of the weird crook his right ear did (which made him so friggin adorable, too). This dog lived until he was about 19, when the family decided it was best he was put down, as he wasn't excited about going outside or eating food much less getting up.

Even though this dog wanted to eat my face the first time we met, I earned his love by many bribes and treats and it wasn't long until he wanted to put his head on my lap so I could scratch it with my long fingernails.

I miss that dog so much. I think he and Koji would have had so much in common. :(

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

My favourite dog at the dog park is a gorgeous, huge husky. His name is Mr. Huggo :3:

He used to terrorize Cohen when she was younger. She was intimidated by his size and his rough play, but over the months she got used to it, and now she plays more like a husky than an Aussie. When they see each other they bump chests for hours. With my pup being half the size she bounces off at amusing angles.

He's very tall and lanky for a typical Siberian. I'm not sure of his breeding. He has the world's sweetest temperament. He's surprisingly well trained for a primitive breed -- he's let off leash at the park (despite it not being fenced) and when he is on leash he walks with it nice and loose. I have a couple of pictures of him from back in April, but I thought I'd share. I'm not sure how tall he is at the shoulder, but my guess is about 25" and he's probably about 75lbs.







There's another dog at the park from the same breeder, and she's also really tall and lanky. I guess that's the direction the breeder opted to go with their dogs. I think they look great, but I'm not sure what their conformation would do to their working ability.

Anyways, that's Mr. Huggo.

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"
:toot::birddrugs::toot:

Someone give Pekingeses some love before I burn this drat place down. :colbert:

My dog growing up was an awesome male Pekingese named Mort. My friends were more convinced he was a Jim Henson puppet rather than a dog. I wasn't yippy and was content to set under your feet and get his belly scratched while you read/watched TV.

He unfortunately got staph from a routine surgery when he was ten and had to be euthanized. My (who kept the dog while I was at college) doesn't understand why I don't sleep at her house. Even six years later it always feels like Mort is there and it's unsettling. I miss the guy.

Also, Pekingese dogs are like their masters and not yappy dicks. If you are chill your Pekingese will be the same. And he was a healthy 20 pound dog. I need to find a picture or Mr. Mort.

Tasty_Crayon
Jul 29, 2006
Same story, different version.

I met a woman who was talking about her dogs, and said that one of them was a shiba-inu/basenji mix. So if any of you guys were hanging out on Saturday evening and felt a sickening chill that you couldn't explain, that's what that was.

rivals
Apr 5, 2004

REBIRTH OF HARDCORE PRIDE!

a life less posted:

My favourite dog at the dog park is a gorgeous, huge husky. His name is Mr. Huggo :3:

That's a big boy. He's very cute though :3:

Here's a random video I took the other day. I've been trying to get one of Kaidan yelling at me because he does it a lot, especially in the mornings when he thinks it's time for everyone to wake up and give him attention. Of course as soon as I stop recording he starts being quieter but there's some of his talking on here, as well as him talking back when I ask him to sit and down but he does it anyway :3: You can see he kind of flops into each position, he's not very graceful. I suspect part of that is due to his hip dysplasia, certain movements and positions are uncomfortable.

Anyway, here's the video.

Abandon All Hope
Apr 6, 2009

by Y Kant Ozma Post
I really love "primitive breeds" because I think it's probably the most exciting connection you could share with a dog. A look at what early man saw for the future of a domesticated companion.

It really just makes you love canines as a whole though, at least it does me. :)

edit: As a side observation, I notice that their handlers are typically vivacious, friendly people. I think they set a good example to keep order, but remember to just let dogs be dogs once in a while. :p

Abandon All Hope fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Sep 2, 2010

Plaxinov
Aug 25, 2010
I'm more of a cat person, but these seem like the only types of dogs that I could so much as comprehend living with. Probably because of some of their more cat like qualities. Regardless, beautiful animals.

big dyke energy
Jul 29, 2006

Football? Yaaaay
I think I've posted before about him, but my childhood dog was an Akita.


Click here for the full 800x604 image.


My dad named him Neko, because he read that Akitas were cat-like, and hey, he should have a Japanese name! I'd like to have an Akita again someday; he was a really great dog.


Apparently Akita Inu and American Akitas are separate breeds in some places? Anyone know why?

Warbadger
Jun 17, 2006

Hooray fuzzbutt pictures!


Click here for the full 800x600 image.



Click here for the full 800x600 image.


Before and after shots to illustrate the hair explosion:


Click here for the full 800x600 image.



Click here for the full 800x600 image.



Click here for the full 800x600 image.

liwet
Jan 1, 2006

Are you loathsome tonight?
While not exactly in the same vein as the other classic ancient breeds like huskies or akitas, I have tibetan terriers and they're rad.

They were used as guard dogs and farm dogs and yak herders, but they were also considered a good luck charm and revered as companions to the Buddhist monks of the mountains. They're cunning and stubborn as gently caress and very strong-willed but sweet-tempered, and were affectionately known in Tibet as the Little People, because, yeah, gonna do their own thing gently caress youuu. They're very vocal. Very. Oh my god shut up.

This is Ru, my current dog. He is the sweetest little jackass.



The very picture of indignance.









(His coat's pretty short right now because he doesn't cope with heat very well.)

This is my old girl, Mills, who died about a year ago. She was a ridiculous grotbag, much more in the vein of the old guard/herding dogs. Absolutely lionhearted.







dog or rug?

liwet fucked around with this message at 10:39 on Sep 2, 2010

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

rivals posted:

I completely agree with this. When Kaidan gets the zoomies or when I run him on the beach you can just see it kick in.

haha When I'm at work, I often forget that not all dogs are like this. Usually when I'm out walking Buddy and he keeps stopping to sniff, all I have to do is quicken my pace for a couple seconds and he clicks on to "MUST MOVE FORWARD!" mode. It's SO funny to see the look of pure joy when he's just staring straight ahead and running. I get in such a habit of using that method to get him to follow me, when I'm at work I'll try it with other dogs and they just plant their butts down. I'll think for a minute, "What dog doesn't want to run?" and then I remember I own a husky. :rolleyes:

paisleyfox posted:


Even though this dog wanted to eat my face the first time we met, I earned his love by many bribes and treats and it wasn't long until he wanted to put his head on my lap so I could scratch it with my long fingernails.

haha Yeah, that sounds about right. American Eskimos tend to be SO protective of their families, that even some of the really well socialized dogs can get aggressive with strangers (especially groomers :argh: ). They're like the quintessential one person dog. They are really awesome, though, if they get to trust you. :3:

a life less posted:

My favourite dog at the dog park is a gorgeous, huge husky. His name is Mr. Huggo :3:

Oh wow, he's huge! It's hard to tell from pictures, but he at least looks like he's proportioned well enough to be healthy, but definitely not in standard. Looks like they take great care of him, though. :3:

rivals posted:

Anyway, here's the video.

hahaha I just love Kaiden, I just want to pet his little face so bad. :3: Buddy will complain some of the time, but it's more when he's being impatient than when you ask him to do something. If you tell him to lay down while you're trying to eat dinner, though, he'll give you the snottiest "UGH... I can't BELIEVE you're asking this of me..." look as he slooooooowwwlllyy does what you asked, while trying to get away with laying slightly closer, or only half laying down, or just SITTING on his bed instead. haha Or if you're calling him over when he doesn't want to, like when he's getting brushed, he'll always take the long way over, sniffing every little thing along the way. :laugh:

Abandon All Hope posted:

As a side observation, I notice that their handlers are typically vivacious, friendly people. I think they set a good example to keep order, but remember to just let dogs be dogs once in a while. :p

I think this is SUCH a true observation. The saying is, you work WITH your dog, your dog isn't working FOR you. I'd say even more than other breeds, with primitive dogs it's about the relationship with the animal as opposed to flat out training/obedience, if that makes any sense. Rivals may be able to weigh in on this a bit more, since he has Kaiden and Eris, who's a GSD mix. All I can say is, for me, as long as my dog is well behaved and listens to me 95% of the time, I'm happy.

Magikarpal Tunnel posted:

Apparently Akita Inu and American Akitas are separate breeds in some places? Anyone know why?

I'm POSITIVE Pfox will get into this, she's WAY excited about doing the Japanese breed section. :keke:

Warbadger posted:

Hooray fuzzbutt pictures!

Warbadger, I know I've said this before, but I just LOVE your dog. :3: haha I just noticed the raw steak just sitting there in that last picture, too, I'm surprised she's looking at you in that one! I'm glad you posted these, I have some other fun stuff I need to get to writing up, and your doggy is good inspiration to get it done. :3:

liwet posted:

Tibetan Terriers

I'm glad you posted this! I think people forget a lot that breeds like this are actually primitive dogs, because they look NOTHING like wolves. It's really the temperament that counts in these cases, even though they're smaller dogs, they're NOTHING like dogs bred just for companionship. I have a client at work who's owned a few retired show lhasas, and this past year she rescued a shih tzu. She's constantly on about how everyone things they should all have that lovey-dovey shih tzu temperament, when lhasas are bred to be one person, aloof watch dogs.


I just realized, there's an awful lot of :3: in this thread. I'll have to dump a bunch of Buddy pictures & videos later!

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

That reminds me of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVNDLlokNfI

It's a Malamute working sheep! (I originally posted this in the herding dog thread.)

I love how she grumbles and refuses a command or two since she's convinced she knows better.

Warbadger
Jun 17, 2006

WolfensteinBag posted:



Warbadger, I know I've said this before, but I just LOVE your dog. :3: haha I just noticed the raw steak just sitting there in that last picture, too, I'm surprised she's looking at you in that one! I'm glad you posted these, I have some other fun stuff I need to get to writing up, and your doggy is good inspiration to get it done. :3:



She's actually *really* good with food. Since I got her she's never, ever gotten food or snacks without obeying a command and then getting permission to take it. She figured this out in the first week I had her, when she was just a tiny little fluffy ball with a tail. I can pretty much leave half a frozen steak on the floor in front of her and she won't touch it, though she'll suddenly fall over herself to do whatever I tell her to do (unless it involves moving TOO far away from it, then she'll think about it for a second or two)!

The same applies for doors. The door always shut if she tried to go through first, only reopening when she'd planted herself far enough back. One day she just kinda figured out the trick to door opening is to follow the human and sit down a few feet back.

liwet
Jan 1, 2006

Are you loathsome tonight?

WolfensteinBag posted:


I'm glad you posted this! I think people forget a lot that breeds like this are actually primitive dogs, because they look NOTHING like wolves. It's really the temperament that counts in these cases, even though they're smaller dogs, they're NOTHING like dogs bred just for companionship. I have a client at work who's owned a few retired show lhasas, and this past year she rescued a shih tzu. She's constantly on about how everyone things they should all have that lovey-dovey shih tzu temperament, when lhasas are bred to be one person, aloof watch dogs.


I forget it myself pretty often because yeah, they're relatively small (just over knee-high) and hairy and they look like teddy bears and Ru is at this moment sitting on my foot and headbutting me in the knee because I am using my hand to type rather than to pet him*, but when I come up against their stubbornness I remember pretty quickly, ha.

Anyway. If anyone's interested in more information on tibetans, their history and background is pretty cool, if a bit loaded with mysticism.




*if I continue to ignore him he will stand up on his hindlegs and start smacking me in the chest with his paws.

liwet fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Sep 2, 2010

Skizzles
Feb 21, 2009

Live, Laugh, Love,
Poop in a box.
^^^ That is the best mental image I've had all morning.

Just wanted to say I'm loving this thread. :3: Warbadger, your dog is gorgeous. I've always thought Cohen was adorable too.

I used to have a Samoyed/GSD mutt as a kid. His name was Sarge. He was a great dog. We would go on adventures in the woods together all the time. :3: My only regret is not having him when I was older and smarter so I could have trained him to do more than sit, shake, and come when called.


Click here for the full 739x617 image.



Click here for the full 653x619 image.

Skizzles fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Sep 2, 2010

paisleyfox
Feb 23, 2009

My dog thinks he's a pretty lady.


Magikarpal Tunnel posted:

Apparently Akita Inu and American Akitas are separate breeds in some places? Anyone know why?

Well, my breed post should be up next week sometime, but the short of it is that they really are two separate breeds, even if the US and Canada (?) still put them in the same category. It has to do with trying to bring them back from the brink of extinction around the time of the war, where they didn't really have a standard back yet, and breeders who would breed bigger, more tough/bear looking dogs were the ones standing down by the military bases, selling dogs to the G.I.s for them to take home to their families in America. Some 60 years later, the Japanese and the Americans are found to have bred the dogs to have vastly different qualities.

Japanese Akita tend to be leaner, longer legged and still look very fox like, almost like GIANT Shibas, especially since at the moment the red coloring is really favored in the Nippo ring. Americans, on the other hand, seem to like the stockier, more robust build of their dogs, faces tending to look more on the bear side with an personality that differs ever so slightly from their Japanese kin (tend to be more guard-doggy in the US, though general attitudes are VERY similar.) An American Akita would do poorly in a Nippo show, as would a Japanese Akita in an AKC or CKC show.

Think of it like American English and British English. Two nations separated by a common language. It's the same with the dogs. ;)

Japanese Akita and American Akita

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

What are Akita energy levels like?

I've said it a few times on the forum, but to rehash it, I'm trying to keep an eye out for possible breed options for my boyfriend and I in the future. He can't cope with high energy herders, and I don't like the small low-key dogs he's accustomed to. Both he and I really like the look of Akitas. I'm not sure how I'll cope with training, but it should be fine. I'd take special care to find a great breeder, of course.

I foresee possible problems with guarding and dog aggression as well. Thoughts?

(Sure I could just wait a week for your post, paisleyfox, but... impatient!)

demozthenes
Feb 14, 2007

Wicked pissa little critta

Captain Log posted:

Someone give Pekingeses some love before I burn this drat place down. :colbert:

Please correct me if I'm wrong (likely) but aren't Pekes and Pugs really closely related? My pug would work but her recall was poo poo and she'd often shoot my family the "snotty teenager look" when we wanted her to do something and didn't have a treat on hand.

Granted, it's really tough to consider them in the same class as huskies and Akitas...

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paisleyfox
Feb 23, 2009

My dog thinks he's a pretty lady.


a life less posted:

What are Akita energy levels like?

I've said it a few times on the forum, but to rehash it, I'm trying to keep an eye out for possible breed options for my boyfriend and I in the future. He can't cope with high energy herders, and I don't like the small low-key dogs he's accustomed to. Both he and I really like the look of Akitas. I'm not sure how I'll cope with training, but it should be fine. I'd take special care to find a great breeder, of course.

I foresee possible problems with guarding and dog aggression as well. Thoughts?

(Sure I could just wait a week for your post, paisleyfox, but... impatient!)

Haha, well compared to my monster, I consider Akitas to be a little more laid back than crazy zoomie Shibas. They do get bored easily, though, and of course rotating toys, long walks or jogs, a job, daily training for mental exercise will always be the key for any of these dogs. Also, "teenaged" Akitas (or Shibas for that matter) are a loving nightmare, but goddamn if you can get past that stage with a firm stance, they are AWESOME dogs, but they will test every bone in your body to get there. (Say goodbye to your floor and door moldings, table legs, books, cabinet doors, and anything you hold dear...)

BUT, the good thing about getting one young and from a reputable breeder would be that if you take that dog everyfuckingwhere, it will be more well adjusted and ready to open other people and dogs (and some even do pretty well with cats.) I mean, as a whole they're a little more reserved around other dogs, but honestly I haven't heard of people having too many problems if their pups have been properly socialized, and there are a few I get to play with at our dog park from time to time. :3: One thing to consider, though, is that a lot of insurance companies regard Akitas as dangerous dogs, along with Pits, Rotties and the like, so a lot of rental places will not allow them.

Now, there aren't too many Japanese Akita breeders in the US, and the ones that are here either a) don't speak English, or b) aren't that great of a breeder...

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