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Anime Schoolgirl
Nov 28, 2002

~perfect~
battlebrother





OEMs are mainly unhappy with Intel not supplying as many CPUs as they're used to, which has been documented over the past month over their 14nm volume shortages. Not sure what else you're extrapolating from that weekly.

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TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE


Slippery Tilde

i7-8700K:




i5-8400:



Note that you can't actually buy the i5-8400 for 239 at the moment, it's on backorder with deliveries expected on October 29.

Hold The Ashes
Sep 17, 2017


Anime Schoolgirl posted:

OEMs are mainly unhappy with Intel not supplying as many CPUs as they're used to, which has been documented over the past month over their 14nm volume shortages. Not sure what else you're extrapolating from that weekly.

I'm not extrapolating anything, it's laid out pretty bare in front of you and is classic wishful thinking journalism.

It's 'technically' two separate news stories; AMD wanting people to think they're at equal parity with Intel and can get 30% of the market by the end of this quarter, which is laughable. Steve even says it's stretching reality. But then he says they "certainly can happen in the next months", which is still laughable. Me winning the powerball is something that could certainly happen too. I shouldn't need to tell you that neither of those are going to happen. From Q1 of 2017 to right now, for all the many, many problems Intel has handwrapped the opportunity for AMD to capitalize on it, they've managed to gain back less than 1% of desktop market share.

The next story is OEMs grumbling about not having enough precious Intel chips, which isn't added right after the first story out of sheer coincidence, and is meant to reinforce his previous belief that AMD is "certainly capable of" literal, unprecedented meteoric rise. I shouldn't need to tell you that approximately zero of these OEMs are in actual danger of dropping Intel for AMD. Virtually every sentence he says is pure conjecture such as "Notebook OEMs are stuck waiting on Whiskey and Amber Lake and may become very interested in AMD's Raven Ridge".

As other researchers are saying, if Intel had the single worst quarter they've had since 2000's and AMD had the single greatest quarter they've had, at the same exact time, AMD would still not even come close to 30% market share.

I don't even buy AMD and I still want them to succeed, but making up ridiculous horse poo poo and then half assedly supporting it while pretending you aren't like GN did in that weekly is just horrific journalism.

Hold The Ashes fucked around with this message at Oct 14, 2018 around 18:25

Anime Schoolgirl
Nov 28, 2002

~perfect~
battlebrother





tell me about the milkman conspiracy

edit seriously in the same loving video steve also spends 15 seconds on how that was wishful loving thinking on amd's part, this isn't hard

Anime Schoolgirl fucked around with this message at Oct 14, 2018 around 18:32

Hold The Ashes
Sep 17, 2017


Anime Schoolgirl posted:

tell me about the milkman conspiracy

edit seriously in the same loving video steve also spends 15 seconds on how that was wishful loving thinking on amd's part, this isn't hard

He says it's wishful thinking in this quarter. He immediately says it's a certain possibility in the months after it. You know, seconds after what you're saying you managed to hear. It isn't hard.

Anime Schoolgirl
Nov 28, 2002

~perfect~
battlebrother





Hold The Ashes posted:

He says it's wishful thinking in this quarter. He immediately says it's a certain possibility in the months after it. You know, seconds after what you're saying you managed to hear. It isn't hard.
you seem to have a habit of reading way more into what's being said than what's actually been said and not just in this topic so i think i'll just leave it at that

Hold The Ashes
Sep 17, 2017


Anime Schoolgirl posted:

you seem to have a habit of reading way more into what's being said than what's actually been said and not just in this topic so i think i'll just leave it at that

Don't worry nobody noticed you suddenly reverting to no punctuation or capitalization after your ADD flared up and couldn't let you focus on the two seconds after someone said something.

Anime Schoolgirl
Nov 28, 2002

~perfect~
battlebrother





edit: don't want to be responsible for the next mass shooting

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE


Slippery Tilde

Hold The Ashes posted:

He says it's wishful thinking in this quarter. He immediately says it's a certain possibility in the months after it. You know, seconds after what you're saying you managed to hear. It isn't hard.

who the gently caress are you and why are you suddenly making GBS threads up all the hardware threads

Hold The Ashes
Sep 17, 2017


Anime Schoolgirl posted:

i love me some good projection but i don't think this is the place or time for that on your part

*furiously replies struggling to reach that vaunted 10 page of posts*

"If I can just ninja edit enough posts I'll be able to avoid someone wondering why I just said listening to something someone said two seconds after what I lost my poo poo over is reading too much into things"

Anime Schoolgirl
Nov 28, 2002

~perfect~
battlebrother





Hold The Ashes posted:

*furiously replies struggling to reach that vaunted 10 page of posts*

"If I can just ninja edit enough posts I'll be able to avoid someone wondering why I just said listening to something someone said two seconds after what I lost my poo poo over is reading too much into things"
you're providing way too much headspace and time into what people are doing while figuratively jerking off at not-work and at this point i long stopped finding it hilarious and actually legitimately worry

have you tried calmly sitting down and maybe asking your general provider about this

3peat
May 6, 2010



TheFluff posted:

i7-8700K:




i5-8400:



Note that you can't actually buy the i5-8400 for 239 at the moment, it's on backorder with deliveries expected on October 29.

I posted about it a few days ago, but since then prices in my country have gone up even more and now a 8700K is over 200 euros more expensive than a 2700x. You can buy a brand new 1080ti (the freshly fallen off a truck kind) for cheaper.
Meanwhile the 8400 is now the same price as the 2700x and you have to wait a week for delivery

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



TheFluff posted:

who the gently caress are you and why are you suddenly making GBS threads up all the hardware threads

he really seems to like getting in dumb name calling arguments despite nobody giving a poo poo about what hes talking about

Sidesaddle Cavalry
Mar 15, 2013

65535

dispel please


Oh did a /g/ threadshitter get an account, nice

Anime Schoolgirl
Nov 28, 2002

~perfect~
battlebrother





Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:

Oh did a /g/ threadshitter get an account, nice
"i got permaban from 4chan, i shall go to the site that birthed it maybe my posting career may have better luck there "

Anime Schoolgirl fucked around with this message at Oct 15, 2018 around 03:33

Sidesaddle Cavalry
Mar 15, 2013

65535

dispel please


I mean, sometimes things come back around full circle, you know?

Since it's new CPU season for Intel, I'm once again interested in some of the market segmentation that's been done again with this new gen. While it's pretty cool to see 16MB of unified L3 cache on the top 9900K part, is it really a necessary number over the 12MB on the 9700K given that the only difference between the two (core clocks aside) is hyperthreading? Is this another one of those situations where a chunk of SRAM really only provides a marginal percentage of synthetic performance improvement which then translates into negligible performance difference in real-world apps/VM environments?

BobHoward
Feb 13, 2012

The only thing white people deserve is a bullet to their empty skull


Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:

Since it's new CPU season for Intel, I'm once again interested in some of the market segmentation that's been done again with this new gen. While it's pretty cool to see 16MB of unified L3 cache on the top 9900K part, is it really a necessary number over the 12MB on the 9700K given that the only difference between the two (core clocks aside) is hyperthreading? Is this another one of those situations where a chunk of SRAM really only provides a marginal percentage of synthetic performance improvement which then translates into negligible performance difference in real-world apps/VM environments?

I guarantee you the 9700K and 9900K are the same physical design with some of the SRAM disabled by fuses on the 9700K. This isn't new, Intel has been doing this kind of segmentation for ages.

Also it's not unified AFAIK. It should still be a slice per core (2MB on 9900K, 1.5MB on 9700K) where access to the L3 slices of remote cores is slower than local since the request and response have to take a trip through the ring bus.

e: to add, the size of the L3 slices hasn't changed from last gen, it was 2MB or 1.5MB per core before too.

e2: it's possible that they may be doing some yield optimization by selling parts with damaged cache subarrays as 9700K, but it's hard for an outsider to say one way or another.

Large caches are generally the largest structures in a CPU and therefore have the highest chance of a defect. It's super common for any large SRAM array to be split up into subarrays with some redundancy so that you can use fuse bits to selectively disable the bad subarrays and yield a fully functional SRAM of the desired size. In this case, Intel might be doing something akin to that, except instead of always having redundant memory they just sell the parts which didn't yield full size L3 SRAM arrays as models with smaller L3 caches. Exactly what choices they made in this area were driven by the defect density of their 14nm+++ process, e.g. if they expected a relatively high defect density they might need to have redundancy providing more than 2MB raw storage per L3 SRAM slice in order to yield any real volume of parts that can have 2MB functional per core. On the other hand, if defect density is low enough they could design the 2MB array with no redundancy and expect to yield enough perfect chips to sell a reasonable number of 9900Ks, while being able to salvage the not-perfect ones as 9700K.

BobHoward fucked around with this message at Oct 15, 2018 around 05:01

VulgarandStupid
Aug 5, 2003

YEAH

LICK MY ASS

BITCH


Who buys an SA account in 2017?

Sidesaddle Cavalry
Mar 15, 2013

65535

dispel please


BobHoward posted:

I guarantee you the 9700K and 9900K are the same physical design with some of the SRAM disabled by fuses on the 9700K. This isn't new, Intel has been doing this kind of segmentation for ages.

Also it's not unified AFAIK. It should still be a slice per core (2MB on 9900K, 1.5MB on 9700K) where access to the L3 slices of remote cores is slower than local since the request and response have to take a trip through the ring bus.

e: to add, the size of the L3 slices hasn't changed from last gen, it was 2MB or 1.5MB per core before too.

e2: it's possible that they may be doing some yield optimization by selling parts with damaged cache subarrays as 9700K, but it's hard for an outsider to say one way or another.

Large caches are generally the largest structures in a CPU and therefore have the highest chance of a defect. It's super common for any large SRAM array to be split up into subarrays with some redundancy so that you can use fuse bits to selectively disable the bad subarrays and yield a fully functional SRAM of the desired size. In this case, Intel might be doing something akin to that, except instead of always having redundant memory they just sell the parts which didn't yield full size L3 SRAM arrays as models with smaller L3 caches. Exactly what choices they made in this area were driven by the defect density of their 14nm+++ process, e.g. if they expected a relatively high defect density they might need to have redundancy providing more than 2MB raw storage per L3 SRAM slice in order to yield any real volume of parts that can have 2MB functional per core. On the other hand, if defect density is low enough they could design the 2MB array with no redundancy and expect to yield enough perfect chips to sell a reasonable number of 9900Ks, while being able to salvage the not-perfect ones as 9700K.

Ah right, I forgot how much real estate memory could take up. Though Intel says the L3 is Intel Smart Cache, which can apparently be split off in unstated amounts from the full pile for any core to use. It's apparently on the new HEDT line too--is there more to it than that?


EDIT:


Confirmed each core can in theory use all 16MB on the 9900K (pardon the messy screencap of the wccf recording). I knew I saw it somewhere!

Sidesaddle Cavalry fucked around with this message at Oct 16, 2018 around 02:11

Aeka 2.0
Nov 16, 2000

Have you seen my apex seals? I seem to have lost them.





Dinosaur Gum

TheFluff posted:

who the gently caress are you and why are you suddenly making GBS threads up all the hardware threads

Yeah it pretty much came out of nowhere and he is reading into poo poo that nobody is implying so he starts tail spinning every loving time. He's like Benjy on the Howard Stern show if anyone listens.


Anime Schoolgirl posted:

you seem to have a habit of reading way more into what's being said than what's actually been said and not just in this topic so i think i'll just leave it at that


Oh well here we are saying the same thing, hah.



But staying on topic I have decided to not move from an 8700k to a 9900k strictly due to price. gently caress that. I should have done that with the 2080ti but I didn't. It took two rapid fire hits of "gently caress you" from the top hardware producers for me to close my wallet. If the 9900k came out before the 2080ti I probably would have gotten a 9900k and not a 2080ti.

Aeka 2.0 fucked around with this message at Oct 15, 2018 around 14:53

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Thats really cool about the core cache on the 9xxx. I wonder if the 8xxx series has a similar feature?

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008



VulgarandStupid posted:

Who buys an SA account in 2017?

People that were banned.

Maybe AMD could hit that 30% a year from now if Intel continues doing terribly. Maybe.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

I'm pretty excited to see AMD's laptop offerings, because Ryzen+Vega is a pretty solid setup for the thin-and-light segments that don't really support a dGPU very well.

rage-saq
Mar 21, 2001

Thats so ninja...

Preordered my 9900k off Amazon, I hope it ships soon! The rumors of ~5.3ghz on water have me aroused.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

rage-saq posted:

Preordered my 9900k off Amazon, I hope it ships soon! The rumors of ~5.3ghz on water have me aroused.

I sent a query to Noctua about the potential difficulties inherent in the EVGA DARK board having a 90 degree rotation on the socket, and it seems that that *will* effect the use of their air coolers. Seems a D15S will be the best option, since the D15 likely won't work with dual 140s. The D15S *might* work with the 140 in the middle and a 120 up top. I'm also looking into direct downflow single-stack coolers since I don't think blowing down onto the power delivery circuitry would be a bad thing.

https://noctua.at/en/mainboard/EVGA_Z390_Dark

I do wish EVGA would be more forthcoming about green-lit HSFs for the board, or at least release detailed dimensions so it's not a matter of guesswork or trial and error.

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rage-saq
Mar 21, 2001

Thats so ninja...

BIG HEADLINE posted:

I sent a query to Noctua about the potential difficulties inherent in the EVGA DARK board having a 90 degree rotation on the socket, and it seems that that *will* effect the use of their air coolers. Seems a D15S will be the best option, since the D15 likely won't work with dual 140s. The D15S *might* work with the 140 in the middle and a 120 up top. I'm also looking into direct downflow single-stack coolers since I don't think blowing down onto the power delivery circuitry would be a bad thing.

https://noctua.at/en/mainboard/EVGA_Z390_Dark

I do wish EVGA would be more forthcoming about green-lit HSFs for the board, or at least release detailed dimensions so it's not a matter of guesswork or trial and error.

Im reusing my Maximus Formula X and my custom loop. Give me all the Hz!

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