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gemuse
Oct 13, 2005


BlankSystemDaemon posted:

wait until it turns out that like ARM big.LITTLE, the differently sized cores implement different instruction sets

why wait, tremont doesn't support AVX

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BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009

System Access Node Not Found



gemuse posted:

why wait, tremont doesn't support AVX
that's easy to deal with, though - indirect functions, which are available in most modern toolchains, can take care of optionally using avx

the issue is with the more basic instructions that developers naively assume would be part of every core, no matter how slow

BobHoward
Feb 13, 2012

The only thing white people deserve is a bullet to their empty skull


BlankSystemDaemon posted:

wait until it turns out that like ARM big.LITTLE, the differently sized cores implement different instruction sets

That was a Samsung thing, not an ARM thing. Samsung built an Exynos chip with four of Samsung's "Mongoose 3" ARMv8.0 big cores and four Cortex-A55 ARMv8.2 little cores.

But the really big fuckup was software. Samsung shipped Exynos phones with an Android Linux kernel they'd patched to remove a dissimilar ISA sanity check. This check would ordinarily cause Linux to report the least common denominator ISA feature set to applications, so that nobody would think it was safe to use an instruction that was legal on only some of the CPUs.

Beef
Jul 26, 2004


My guess is that we will see it used in practice a bit like with the mobile cores, sort of as a power state thing. Low load: small cores used; high load: big cores used.

Dark silicon's a bitch

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

"You are the best poster... do not let anyone say otherwise."


Cygni posted:

I think they are fairly plentiful now, or are they still hard to find? I looked just now and Dell has a few shipping immediately and a bunch shipping in 1-2 weeks.

This 10nm rollout is obviously gonna be interesting considering the Ice Lake Xeons are just now showing up, and there is a ton of people waiting on Sapphire Rapids which should be ramping now.
Maybe it's specifically Lenovo or our IT department being a bunch of lazy jerkoffs, but the latest X1 I can get still comes with the Whiskey Lake 8665U. At least it's 4 cores but that's still like 2 years old now.

Nomyth
Mar 15, 2013

And if a Nyto get a attitude
Pop it like it's hot
Pop it like it's hot
Pop it like it's hot


taqueso posted:

however, a big core can translate and feed a little core

I love BBC videos

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

"You are the best poster... do not let anyone say otherwise."


Pretty though

JawnV6
Jul 4, 2004

So hot ...

SwissArmyDruid posted:

Does that assume that they are pre-binning their chiplets before they mount them, or are they mounting everything and fusing off dysfunctional cores? I think the latter is more likely.

what is mounting

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

JawnV6 posted:

what is mounting

Another pretty topic.

Beef
Jul 26, 2004


So is performance mounted in the big balls or the small balls.

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Feb 28, 1985




Intel: the sexual platform

PCjr sidecar
Jan 26, 2011

dude, you gotta end it on the rhyme



Finally releasing the succesor to the Pentium Sexium

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



It appears the weird anime avatar leaker squad has hit on somethin tasty. Sapphire Rapids, Intel's much anticipated next server product that is gonna launch PCIe 5 and DDR5 later this year and a huge amount of big iron clients are waiting on, is a 4 chiplet MCM.

https://t.bilibili.com/488021238176910289



This had been rumored a lot, but appears is true. The rumors were that each chiplet (or "tile") had 15 cores with 1 core per tile disabled for yield reasons. The rumors also talked about HBM2, but I don't see any on the package as far as I can tell. It might be 3d packaged under the core tiles, but that doesn't sound very thermally doable.. There is an Altera Max 10 FPGA on board as well, which is interesting.

Cygni fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Feb 5, 2021

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

Nobody Cares




the heck is the fpga for, doesn't look like it has much surface area

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009

System Access Node Not Found



Cygni posted:

It appears the weird anime avatar leaker squad has hit on somethin tasty. Sapphire Rapids, Intel's much anticipated next server product that is gonna launch PCIe 5 and DDR5 later this year and a huge amount of big iron clients are waiting on, is a 4 chiplet MCM.

https://t.bilibili.com/488021238176910289



This had been rumored a lot, but appears is true. The rumors were that each chiplet (or "tile") had 15 cores with 1 core per tile disabled for yield reasons. The rumors also talked about HBM2, but I don't see any on the package as far as I can tell. It might be 3d packaged under the core tiles, but that doesn't sound very thermally doable.. There is an Altera Max 10 FPGA on board as well, which is interesting.
Is this the chip that'll have the Shared Virtual Memory feature which removes the requirement for pinning memory when doing PCI passthrough in hypervisor guests?

EDIT: Yes, I think it is?

Nomyth
Mar 15, 2013

And if a Nyto get a attitude
Pop it like it's hot
Pop it like it's hot
Pop it like it's hot


Potato Salad posted:

the heck is the fpga for, doesn't look like it has much surface area

Obviously, so you can set up the Nios soft processor IP on it and have the heterogeneous arch with two different instruction sets like discussed above. 56 big cores feeding one tiny core!!!

Saukkis
May 16, 2003

Unless I'm on the inside curve pointing straight at oncoming traffic the high beams stay on and I laugh at your puny protest flashes.
I am Most Important Man. Most Important Man in the World.

BlankSystemDaemon posted:

Is this the chip that'll have the Shared Virtual Memory feature which removes the requirement for pinning memory when doing PCI passthrough in hypervisor guests?

EDIT: Yes, I think it is?

When reading this post I just started thinking what kind of names the vulnerabilities will get.

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009

System Access Node Not Found



Saukkis posted:

When reading this post I just started thinking what kind of names the vulnerabilities will get.
You can speculate in it, and buy domains out-of-band so they have to pay you money to get it.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010



Lipstick Apathy

https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-confirms-b460-and-h410-motherboards-will-not-support-11th-gen-core-rocket-lake-cpus

Intel is confirming that B460 and H410 motherboards will NOT be able to support 11th gen/Rocket Lake CPUs

Conversely, this does mean that Z490 and H470 motherboards can, but will require a BIOS update

Intel is also confirming that B560 motherboards will allow for memory tuning/overclocking (but not H510 motherboards)

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

Don't look at me-
I'm ugly in the morning
When the headaches gone
The sun is not.
Forgot to turn the alarm
On - on






Pillbug

Updating to an 11th gen from a 10900kf probably wonít be worth it, right?

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010



Lipstick Apathy

Ugly In The Morning posted:

Updating to an 11th gen from a 10900kf probably wonít be worth it, right?

if you already have an i9-10900KF, very very likely to not be worth it

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

Don't look at me-
I'm ugly in the morning
When the headaches gone
The sun is not.
Forgot to turn the alarm
On - on






Pillbug

gradenko_2000 posted:

if you already have an i9-10900KF, very very likely to not be worth it

I do, I was gonna keep my 9700k but my brother needed a new computer so I did a full rebuild and gave him my old one.

Twerk from Home
Jan 17, 2009

This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.


Ugly In The Morning posted:

I do, I was gonna keep my 9700k but my brother needed a new computer so I did a full rebuild and gave him my old one.

It wouldnít have been worth it from a 9700K either.

Going to be a nice upgrade option for those coming from Kaby or older, or Zen 1.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

Don't look at me-
I'm ugly in the morning
When the headaches gone
The sun is not.
Forgot to turn the alarm
On - on






Pillbug

Twerk from Home posted:

It wouldnít have been worth it from a 9700K either.

Going to be a nice upgrade option for those coming from Kaby or older, or Zen 1.

I do like going from 8c/8t to 10c/20t. It doesnít make a real difference but itís at least a number I can see that went up big time.

SuperTeeJay
Jun 14, 2015


I swapped my 8700K to a 9900KF (costing about £100 after flogging the 8700) and the main benefits were seeing more cores/threads in HWMonitor (whoop) and stopping myself spending £600-700 on a new motherboard and 11700K this summer, which I'm sure will also make little or no difference in 1440p gaming.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

Don't look at me-
I'm ugly in the morning
When the headaches gone
The sun is not.
Forgot to turn the alarm
On - on






Pillbug

SuperTeeJay posted:

main benefits were seeing more cores/threads in HWMonitor

Why are you acting like there is any other reason to upgrade your CPU though?

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010



Lipstick Apathy

Whomst among us hasn't justified an upgrade simply on the basis of seeing the Cinebench number go up

B-1.1.7 Bomber
Feb 19, 2005

THE DARK SIDE OF SCIENCE BREEDS A WEAPON OF WAR


Buglord

If Iím buying a new cpu (and mobo) Iím gonna want a number go up. Any number would be fine, Iím not particular.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

"You are the best poster... do not let anyone say otherwise."


B-1.1.7 Bomber posted:

If Iím buying a new cpu (and mobo) Iím gonna want a number go up. Any number would be fine, Iím not particular.

11900 is a pretty big number

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

Don't look at me-
I'm ugly in the morning
When the headaches gone
The sun is not.
Forgot to turn the alarm
On - on






Pillbug

Iím gonna have to do a cinebench before and after I put the water cooling in next weekend, I wonder if thatís gonna make a difference with the boost.

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

Adjust the bass and let the Alpine blast


mobby_6kl posted:

11900 is a pretty big number

Eh, 80186 is bigger

Nomyth
Mar 15, 2013

And if a Nyto get a attitude
Pop it like it's hot
Pop it like it's hot
Pop it like it's hot


If the 8086+ retro numbers start coming back as their own series I'm on board forever

SuperTeeJay
Jun 14, 2015


B-1.1.7 Bomber posted:

If Iím buying a new cpu (and mobo) Iím gonna want a number go up. Any number would be fine, Iím not particular.
Debt go up!

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009

System Access Node Not Found



Ugly In The Morning posted:

Why are you acting like there is any other reason to upgrade your CPU though?
Personally, I liked seeing ESXis CPU performance report, which is meassured in GHz, because of the way they do resource pool allocations, go up massive amounts, despite going from a 3.4GHz Sandy Bridge i7-2600!k CPU in my workstation to 2x 3.3GHz Ivy Bridge E5-2667v2 in my server.

Shrimp or Shrimps
Feb 14, 2012




So, weird question but does anybody know if the cpu cooler mounting holes on a z490 board are the same as a z270 board? Wondering if you be able to swap 2 systems around, with an older one (7700k) going into a MSI trident pre-built and the newer one (10700k) going into a nr200 case.

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


Shrimp or Shrimps posted:

So, weird question but does anybody know if the cpu cooler mounting holes on a z490 board are the same as a z270 board? Wondering if you be able to swap 2 systems around, with an older one (7700k) going into a MSI trident pre-built and the newer one (10700k) going into a nr200 case.

probably yes, Intel hasn't actually changed the mounting pattern since LGA1155, all coolers with a standard mounting pattern use the same hole spacing/ILM height/etc.

it is possible the Trident uses a non-standard mounting pattern though, since it's a pre-built, but it will probably work. If there is any information online about people who are swapping other standard coolers onto the Trident then that will be fine.

note that depending on what you're trying to do, the actual PCB layout may not be exactly identical, so if there is some type of integrated cooler to get the size down in that chassis and it doesn't have tubes/etc for flexibility, then you may not be able to swap out the whole motherboard, because the socket wouldn't be in the right place. thin-itx standardizes the socket location but regular ITX (assuming the Trident is even a standard ITX) does not.

but in answer to your direct question yes, the socket and mounting holes themselves are standardized.

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Feb 10, 2021

Indiana_Krom
Jun 18, 2007
Net Slacker

Shrimp or Shrimps posted:

So, weird question but does anybody know if the cpu cooler mounting holes on a z490 board are the same as a z270 board? Wondering if you be able to swap 2 systems around, with an older one (7700k) going into a MSI trident pre-built and the newer one (10700k) going into a nr200 case.

Look up the current specs for your cooler and check its socket compatibility lists. But generally it should, LGA1200 uses exactly the same mounting positions as LGA115x.

B-Mac
Apr 21, 2003
I'll never catch "the gay"!

Shrimp or Shrimps posted:

So, weird question but does anybody know if the cpu cooler mounting holes on a z490 board are the same as a z270 board? Wondering if you be able to swap 2 systems around, with an older one (7700k) going into a MSI trident pre-built and the newer one (10700k) going into a nr200 case.

The mounting holes are the same but some itx z490 boards have compatibility issues with certain AIO coolers, the block contacts some of the surrounding objects. I think the ASUS and Asrock have trouble while MSI and Gigabyte are ok.

I believe itís mentioned in this video.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TmgR9qNGKlk

Canna Happy
Jul 11, 2004
The engine, code A855, has a cast iron closed deck block and split crankcase. It uses an 8.1:1 compression ratio with Mahle cast eutectic aluminum alloy pistons, forged connecting rods with cracked caps and threaded-in 9 mm rod bolts, and a cast high

Shrimp or Shrimps posted:

So, weird question but does anybody know if the cpu cooler mounting holes on a z490 board are the same as a z270 board? Wondering if you be able to swap 2 systems around, with an older one (7700k) going into a MSI trident pre-built and the newer one (10700k) going into a nr200 case.

That trident doesn't look like a standard itx board.

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Shrimp or Shrimps
Feb 14, 2012




Thanks for the advice, everybody. So the trident x uses it's own cooler design but the motherboard seems to be an MSI UNIFY itx board, which you can buy separately, according to Tom's review: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/msi-meg-trident-x but I'm having trouble verifying that from a second source past a couple random comments on reddit. E: See edit.

In that case, if the mounting holes haven't changed, I presume the proprietary CPU cooler will probably fit on a Z270 board in terms of actual mounting, but that the clearance from mb heatsinks / ram positioning and such will be the main issue.

Edit: Hmmm maybe not. Looking at the picture of the ports here from the Tom's review: https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/9dKE3PEZVYrJPKgmeBWd2Q-970-80.jpg.webp does not look like how it should lineup with the actual board itself here: https://www.amazon.com/MSI-MEG-Z490I-Motherboard-Thunderbolt/dp/B0876H2R85

Looks like it is proprietary in which case it might not be possible to swap.

E2: Yeah, the io is different in this pcmag review, too: https://i.pcmag.com/imagery/reviews/04bOQwneshnbkN7YcktT5mL-4.fit_lim.size_960x.jpg

Looking like a strong no-go. Ah well.

Shrimp or Shrimps fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Feb 10, 2021

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