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Fauxtool
Oct 21, 2008



I won the 1st place prize in the intel serious sam lottery and part of the prize is a 10700k.
Im thinking of doing a custom loop ITX for fun, is there a handy tier list of z490 mobos?
What is the sweet spot for ram speed for intel?

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SuperTeeJay
Jun 14, 2015


Fauxtool posted:

What is the sweet spot for ram speed for intel?
The conventional wisdom was not to bother with anything faster than 3200MHz but some more recent benchmarking shows FPS gains at 3600MHz and (to a lesser extent) 4000MHz. I'd go for 3600/C16 or C14 in a new build.

Kazinsal
Dec 13, 2011






The price/perf jump from 3200 to 3600 is a much more reasonable ratio than the price/perf jump from 3600 to 4000.

Canna Happy
Jul 11, 2004
The engine, code A855, has a cast iron closed deck block and split crankcase. It uses an 8.1:1 compression ratio with Mahle cast eutectic aluminum alloy pistons, forged connecting rods with cracked caps and threaded-in 9 mm rod bolts, and a cast high

The best z490 itx motherboards are either the gigabyte aorus ultra to the msi meg unify. They have pretty much the same vrm, but the gigabyte will most likely run a few c cooler due to a slightly larger heatsink. The msi should have slightly better memory overclocking capabilities. The msi has a thunderbolt 3 port and realtek 2.5gb lan where the gigabyte uses an intel nic and no thunderbolt. These are the main differences. I'm a happy msi z490i user, but mostly due to it being fifty dollars cheaper at time of purchase.

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



Looks like Rocket Lake will launch on March 15th. Dunno if that means actual availability on that day or not though.

https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-rocket-lake-s-to-be-available-on-march-15th-alder-lake-s-to-feature-10nm-enhanced-superfin-architecture

Shrimp or Shrimps
Feb 14, 2012




SuperTeeJay posted:

The conventional wisdom was not to bother with anything faster than 3200MHz but some more recent benchmarking shows FPS gains at 3600MHz and (to a lesser extent) 4000MHz. I'd go for 3600/C16 or C14 in a new build.

Do ram speeds tend to matter less the higher resolution you go? 1080p vs 4k for eg. I'm assuming yes because you move to being GPU bound rather than CPU bound?

Also, what's the general strategy for undervolting / overclocking / increasing efficiency for intel these days? Is cache undervolting recommended? What about downclocking cache to get a better core clock? Or what about overclocking cache? Is undervolting iGPU safe when not using it? Does it even do anything? What about igpu unslice?

VCCIO and system agent, as I understand it, might need voltage bumps when overclocking memory and / or enabling XMP profile on memory. I definitely need to push both a touch for my 6700k/z270 asrock to get my 3200 ram xmp profile stable.

Shrimp or Shrimps fucked around with this message at 05:51 on Feb 18, 2021

Fauxtool
Oct 21, 2008



Shrimp or Shrimps posted:

Also, what's the general strategy for undervolting and / or increasing efficiency for intel these days? Is cache undervolting recommended? What about downclocking cache to get a better core clock? Or what about overclocking cache? Is undervolting iGPU safe when not using it? Does it even do anything? What about igpu unslice?

VCCIO and system agent, as I understand it, might need voltage bumps when overclocking memory and / or enabling XMP profile on memory. I definitely need to push both a touch for my 6700k/z270 asrock to get my 3200 ram xmp profile stable.

same questions as this goon mostly

my 10700k arrived way sooner than I expected so this build is happening sooner than later. Whats the general overclocking strat these days?
The last time I seriously tried was on a 2500k and that was relatively simple. Adjust the multiplier, raise voltage until stable, repeat.

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


Shrimp or Shrimps posted:

Do ram speeds tend to matter less the higher resolution you go? 1080p vs 4k for eg. I'm assuming yes because you move to being GPU bound rather than CPU bound?

yes, it's a question of CPU bound vs GPU bound and at higher resolutions you're more GPU bound so you can get away with whatever on the CPU side. But RAM does matter for stuff like open-world or "sim" games that are mostly CPU-bound even at higher resolutions - Fallout 4 was RAM-bound even like 6 years ago, you got fantastic scaling up to at least 4000.

AFAIK nobody really cares about undervolting on Intel, there is very little meaningful "boost management" beyond "at X cores you get Y clocks". It's the last gasp of the "old" paradigm where you just find whatever your best all-core clock at whatever you consider reasonable voltage, then you tune your RAM, your cache, and your ringbus. The latter two are pretty significant on Intel as well, ringbus is like tuning infinity fabric, and I don't really know if cache tuning exists on AMD as an independent thing, but the closer you can get ringbus and cache to "1:1" the better. The gains from these are essentially compounded, if you get 10% extra from cache and 10% extra from ringbus you will get 21% extra total performance.

Obviously, just as with AMD, the more voltage you shove into all of those things, the faster they will be damaged.

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Feb 18, 2021

SuperTeeJay
Jun 14, 2015


Fauxtool posted:

my 10700k arrived way sooner than I expected so this build is happening sooner than later. Whats the general overclocking strat these days?
The last time I seriously tried was on a 2500k and that was relatively simple. Adjust the multiplier, raise voltage until stable, repeat.
Guides aimed at obtaining the maximum stable overclock will recommend changing all sorts of settings, but getting all cores to run at the highest single core boost or a bit higher is as simple as you say. I'd also change the load line calibration from Auto to a medium setting and then start hitting it with OCCT/Aida64 and Small FFTs in P95 until it stops falling over.

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009

System Access Node Not Found



Has the recommendation to disable load-line calibration and spread spectrum when doing overclocking changed?

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

BlankSystemDaemon posted:

Has the recommendation to disable load-line calibration and spread spectrum when doing overclocking changed?

The spread spectrum maybe, but you can't disable LLC... you can set it differently though.

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009

System Access Node Not Found



redeyes posted:

The spread spectrum maybe, but you can't disable LLC... you can set it differently though.
My old workstations UEFI (which has all the pretty UI, but doesn't do UEFI boot at all) has toggles to disable both.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

BlankSystemDaemon posted:

My old workstations UEFI (which has all the pretty UI, but doesn't do UEFI boot at all) has toggles to disable both.

I'd guess disabling sets it to 'normal', kind of odd though.

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009

System Access Node Not Found



redeyes posted:

I'd guess disabling sets it to 'normal', kind of odd though.
I dunno. I've ended up replacing that workstation with a server with a shitload more cores and memory.

Don't have the money to buy stuff new enough that it does all the fancy overclocking.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010



Lipstick Apathy

We're getting our first announcements of DDR5 memory: https://videocardz.com/newz/asgard-announces-ddr5-4800-memory-for-intel-12th-gen-core-alder-lake-series

That said, the timings are supposed to be 40-40-40, so as has been covered previously, DDR5 is probably going to have such loose timings at the start that DDR4 will likely be better for a while yet in some use-cases.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

Question for the thread concerning Management Engine fuckery.

I have a Z390. I know I'm supposed to stick to the 12.x F/W, the most recent of which is 12.0.71.1681, as 14.x and 15.x are for the 400 and 500 series respectively. But what about the MEI *software*, which is now in the 15.x branch?

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



Rocket Lake will apparently be announced/go on pre order on 3/16, with reviews and availability on 3/30. lol. The Big 3 sure do love these lovely embargo games.

Some Goon
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



It's good to be king a duopolist.

Beef
Jul 26, 2004


Death to marketing and sales departments, I say. And pass the savings on to YOU!

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



Just wanted to share a rabbit hole I went down. In short, USB sucks rear end!

A lot of these Z590 boards have USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 Type-C ports (yes that is the actual name) that will go up to 20Gbps. If you were wondering if future USB4/TB4 devices will actually use that port at its 20Gbps speed, the answer is no. It is going to negotiate down to 10Gbps. 2x2 ports will only work at 20Gbps with 2x2 specific devices. Also 2x2 specific devices will not run at 20Gb/s on TB4/USB4 ports, either. So it is an orphaned standard, both on the port and device side. Because the USB group is dumb as fuckin poo poo. It is theoretically possible that someone could develop a future combo device driver that recognized both standards and switched between them, but considering how short lived this 2x2 standard is already looking and that only Asmedia has ever released any host or device silicon in the first place, i would put the chance of that at 0%.

To add to that, if you saw those USB4 speed numbers of 20Gbps or 40Gbps and got happy, good news! USB-IF hosed that up too! USB4 20Gbps certified devices only have to transfer data at... 10Gbps. The other 10Gbps can come from data or the required displayport pass through support. So even if a port says USB4 20Gbps, there is no guarantee it will run at anything higher than 10Gb/s for actual data. There is also no branding standard to figure out which USB4 20Gbps ports and devices support what, so being cynical, I think its likely that device makers won't bother supporting anything but the required portions.

Meaning if you plug a device into a host that both display this: Congrats, you will get 20Gbps!

However, if you plug a device into a host that both display this, the brand new fancy USB4 20Gbps logo: Well tough luck fucko, youre probably gettin 10Gbps.

On the USB4 40Gbps side, i started reading about all the PCIe tunneling tom foolery and how it is severely speed limited in most current devices and TB3 support not being guaranteed and TB4 and all of that, but I think I'm done caring. poo poo sucks. If anyone knows more about this than me, feel free to correct me!

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

goddamn thatís nuts. USB definitely does seem to be the redheaded stepchild of pc connectivity compared to ethernet, PCIe and sas/sata.

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Feb 28, 1985




Why is USB such a clusterfuck?

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

It might be a clusterfuck, but most people in here probably never had to go through three different ISA serial port cards before finding one that'd work reliably with the family's 33.6kbps modem without making GBS threads the bed.

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Wild EEPROM
Jul 29, 2011


oh, my, god. Becky, look at her bitrate.


Donít forget about the absolute fuckery that is compatible cables.

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