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BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009



Twerk from Home posted:

I'm curious about this one, hyper-threading seems to have been a power efficiency win even though sometimes they make individual task latency worse, which can hurt game framerates or anything less that's latency sensitive.

To make HT not worthwhile anymore, their cores would have to get a lot smaller I thought so that the extra area for HT on a single core isn't worth it anymore.
Hyperthreading does make some HPC workloads slower, but it's nowhere near as bad as the first Intel implementation which really hampered the Pentium 4 lineup.

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Twerk from Home
Jan 17, 2009

This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.

BlankSystemDaemon posted:

Hyperthreading does make some HPC workloads slower, but it's nowhere near as bad as the first Intel implementation which really hampered the Pentium 4 lineup.

I guess this specific example is AMD's Hyper threading and not Intel's, but it makes web serving tail latency worse too, which ain't exactly HPC high IPC workloads: https://blog.cloudflare.com/measuring-hyper-threading-and-turbo-boost/

Gaming comparisons aren't as common as they used to be because most games are pretty solidly GPU bottlenecked, but disabling hyper threading improves 1% lows and if you've got a full 8 cores anyway, sometimes outright improves frame rate a bit: https://www.gamersnexus.net/game-bench/3227-ffxv-hyperthreading-smt-on-vs-off-benchmarks-cpu

Yudo
May 15, 2003

I thought mmx was the vector integer instruction extension, not sse?

Twerk from Home
Jan 17, 2009

This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.

Yudo posted:

I thought mmx was the vector integer instruction extension, not sse?

MMX is 64-bit wide registers, which you might notice are a lot less useful now that we have 64-bit wide processors.

SSE1/2/3/4/4.1 and so on are 128 bits wide, with newer processors having more instructions.

AVX1/2 are 256-bit.

AVX-512 is 512-bit but also has a ton of nice new instructions that work on 128 or 256 bit registers. There's a lot of different AVX-512 instruction sets available though.

AVX10 is the instructions from AVX-512 but without the 512 wide registers, so you can use all the new stuff on processors which are only 256 bits wide.

Yudo
May 15, 2003

Twerk from Home posted:

MMX is 64-bit wide registers, which you might notice are a lot less useful now that we have 64-bit wide processors.

SSE1/2/3/4/4.1 and so on are 128 bits wide, with newer processors having more instructions.

AVX1/2 are 256-bit.

AVX-512 is 512-bit but also has a ton of nice new instructions that work on 128 or 256 bit registers. There's a lot of different AVX-512 instruction sets available though.

AVX10 is the instructions from AVX-512 but without the 512 wide registers, so you can use all the new stuff on processors which are only 256 bits wide.

I see. Thanks for explaining.

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009



Speaking of vector instructions, I just checked on the status of the RISC-V extension - and was surprised to learn that it's apparently going to be arbitrary-length from 2^2 all the way up to 2^16.

Twerk from Home posted:

I guess this specific example is AMD's Hyper threading and not Intel's, but it makes web serving tail latency worse too, which ain't exactly HPC high IPC workloads: https://blog.cloudflare.com/measuring-hyper-threading-and-turbo-boost/

Gaming comparisons aren't as common as they used to be because most games are pretty solidly GPU bottlenecked, but disabling hyper threading improves 1% lows and if you've got a full 8 cores anyway, sometimes outright improves frame rate a bit: https://www.gamersnexus.net/game-bench/3227-ffxv-hyperthreading-smt-on-vs-off-benchmarks-cpu
AMDs SMT is quite a bit different even from Intels modern implementation (not unlike how AMD64 and Intel 64 are different, even though for most purposes they're treated as equivalent), but the NetBurst implementation is covered pretty well in this article by Anand.

Andy Glew is one of the people primarily responsible for the Nehalem implementation (as well as several other inventions that were patented by him and later assigned to Intel), and is definitely worth looking up.
Funnily enough, the original NetBurst implementation patents are going to expire soon - so people will finally have an example of how not to do it.

Worse, of course, is that Colin Percival showed in 2005 that hyperthreading was subject to timing attacks, something that it took the rest of us way too long to discover.

Kibner
Oct 21, 2008

#1 Pelican Fan
The Z790 Sonic motherboard from Asrock is pretty cool. Helped my gf with her new build based around it:



Only two complaints, so far.

1) You have to pick and choose whether you want to attach a pcie4 m.2 to the cpu or a pcie5 m.2 that will cut the pcie5 lanes in the gpu slot from 16x to 8x. You can't use both, either, as there just isn't the physical room. At least it comes with three other pcei4 m.2 slots, for a total of four usable m.2 slots.

2) It does not appear to come with any wifi or bluetooth. Bought a cheap Intel AX200 m.2 since it has bluetooth 5.2 and ran the wires to the rear i/o panel shield, instead. Took some time, but was pretty easy to do.

Still want to change out all the fans for the white SL-Infinity stuff, paint that ssd heatsink under the gpu to a more appropriate color, and also paint the front mesh cover to Sonic blue.

Kibner fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Sep 11, 2023

kliras
Mar 27, 2021
you'll want your loop to go above the pump btw like so: https://www.arctic.de/en/faq/detail/how-not-to-mount-your-water-cooling-aio-by-gamersnexus, so might wanna flip the front so the loop goes to the top instead of the bottom

i just repasted my d15 cooler today, and man i want to just go aio, but i really need arctic to offer a nicer design with better ux than the current freezer ii. my old gpu's backplate is so scratched up just from trying to remove the main fan from the heatsink to reach the mounting screws. my kingdom for pci release buttons on all motherboards

Kibner
Oct 21, 2008

#1 Pelican Fan

kliras posted:

you'll want your loop to go above the pump btw like so: https://www.arctic.de/en/faq/detail/how-not-to-mount-your-water-cooling-aio-by-gamersnexus, so might wanna flip the front so the loop goes to the top instead of the bottom

i just repasted my d15 cooler today, and man i want to just go aio, but i really need arctic to offer a nicer design with better ux than the current freezer ii

This should be the correct orientation, even based on that same video. Tubes are all below the pump and the top of the rad is above the pump, too. The air will accumulate at the top of the radiator since it is the highest point in the loop. It will sit there and not interfere with the fluid circulating throughout the rest of the loop. If I was to flip it, air would start circulating through the tubes, since they would be at the top of the loop.

So far, the pump has been silent when playing games. No bubbling sounds and temps seem to be in control.

e: the video actually points out having tubes at the top as the wrong way to do it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbGomv195sk&t=1083s

Kibner fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Sep 11, 2023

kliras
Mar 27, 2021
oh weird, must have misremembered after fighting my d15 for an entire day, my bad

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week

Kibner posted:

1) You have to pick and choose whether you want to attach a pcie4 m.2 to the cpu or a pcie5 m.2 that will cut the pcie5 lanes in the gpu slot from 16x to 8x. You can't use both, either, as there just isn't the physical room. At least it comes with three other pcei4 m.2 slots, for a total of four usable m.2 slots.

This is universal on all Z790 boards with a gen 5 m.2 slot, because the CPU only has 16 gen 5 lanes.

(which, lmao, I guess means 790 will be another one-and-done chipset-cpu combination. since if they were planning to have a more upgradable platform they'd have just done a single gen 5 "supported" slot.)



Regardless it does not matter at all, gen 5 NVMe drives barely exist yet and gen 4 drives have more performance than anything in desktop & games can use. History says that worrying about which PCIe gen your slots have is almost always a waste of time.

Kibner
Oct 21, 2008

#1 Pelican Fan

kliras posted:

oh weird, must have misremembered after fighting my d15 for an entire day, my bad

No worries! Itís always useful to get a second set of eyes to double check.

Klyith posted:

This is universal on all Z790 boards with a gen 5 m.2 slot, because the CPU only has 16 gen 5 lanes.

(which, lmao, I guess means 790 will be another one-and-done chipset-cpu combination. since if they were planning to have a more upgradable platform they'd have just done a single gen 5 "supported" slot.)



Regardless it does not matter at all, gen 5 NVMe drives barely exist yet and gen 4 drives have more performance than anything in desktop & games can use. History says that worrying about which PCIe gen your slots have is almost always a waste of time.

Yeah, wasnít too worried about it, it just caught me off guard that it was a potential issue.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

Seems like MTL details are out:
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-meteor-lake-technical-deep-dive/
https://www.anandtech.com/show/20046/intel-unveils-meteor-lake-architecture-intel-4-heralds-the-disaggregated-future-of-mobile-cpus

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-confirms-meteor-lake-is-coming-to-desktops-in-2024

quote:

Q: Let me ask you, is there gonna be a Meteor Lake desktop?

A: Desktop will come in 2024.

Q: So you are confirming Meteor Lake desktop?

A: Yes.

Q: Whether or not you guys are returning to an era where there is gonna be a processor family for mobile and a seprate processor family for desktop but doesnít sound like thatís the case.

A: That is not the case. I want one processor family top to bottom for both segments, doesnít everybody?

Wonder if the plan is similar to Westmere or Broadwell where we only saw limited/niche launches for the desktop parts and wider uses on other platforms. Going to be a strange arrangement with LGA1851 and LGA1700 existing side by side in desktop, presumably with the newer 1851 platform being reserved for the lower tier parts. Evokes the bad old days of FM2/AM3+ (and also 1156/1366 or 754/939 in some ways)

ConanTheLibrarian
Aug 13, 2004


dis buch is late
Fallen Rib
Turns out it's only going to appear in things like NUCs. No LGA-1851 version.

Dr. Video Games 0031
Jul 17, 2004

So when she said Meteor Lake is coming to desktop, that Intel exec meant that some companies would slap the mobile chip into some mini PCs. And when she said that it wasn't the case that there'd be separate processor families for desktop and mobile and that she wants one processor family top to bottom for both segments, she meant that in a wishful thinking, "wouldn't that be nice" kind of way.

Arzachel
May 12, 2012
Meteor Lake on Desktop?
No, product segmentation!

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

ConanTheLibrarian posted:

Turns out it's only going to appear in things like NUCs. No LGA-1851 version.

this is why you dont let execs do interviews without supervision

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009



Cygni posted:

this is why you dont let execs

canyoneer
Sep 13, 2005


I only have canyoneyes for you

Cygni posted:

this is why you dont let execs do interviews without supervision

My first experience with Michelle was when she took over Sales and Marketing Group and had a video call in which she announced that they were going to lay off ~30% of the organization and a lot of people remaining would have to reapply for their own jobs.

She chose to wear a huge gaudy gold Chanel necklace for this video call. Great optics, MJ

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer

Arzachel posted:

Meteor Lake on Desktop?
No, product segmentation!

Alright, I laughed pretty hard at this.

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FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


Arzachel posted:

Meteor Lake on Desktop?
No, product segmentation!

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