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ohgodwhat posted:Not actually a problem: But again, it isn't actually a problem. With a regular rear end USB port on any laptop, you can already build a malicious USB device that can inject malware and even read out significant sections of memory. That is a fundamental flaw in how USB devices work, since it "trusts" that devices are what they say they are and won't try to be malicious. There is nothing "bad decision" about having this functionality. You're just going to have to put on your big boy pants and accept that physical access has always meant there's nothing you can really do about security anymore. The only way to prevent this would be to make it nearly impossible to have external devices to use with your computer.
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Jan 14, 2017 18:15
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fishmech posted:You mean the sort of physical attacks that you could do with most laptops with say, Thunderbolt, or Firewire, or ExpressCard, and I think maybe PCMCIA? That is, attacks that let you extract a bunch of information from the running system and allow for the possibility of injecting some manner of malicious executable code. Isn't that why skylake brought VT-d mainstream? IOMMU these things off, so these attacks don't work anymore.
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Jan 14, 2017 18:22
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crazypenguin posted:Isn't that why skylake brought VT-d mainstream? IOMMU these things off, so these attacks don't work anymore. --edit: Actually, nevermind, how I understand some of the Intel IOMMU documentation, this happens automagically on Linux? Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Jan 14, 2017 |
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Jan 14, 2017 18:33
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fishmech posted:But again, it isn't actually a problem. With a regular rear end USB port on any laptop, you can already build a malicious USB device that can inject malware and even read out significant sections of memory. That is a fundamental flaw in how USB devices work, since it "trusts" that devices are what they say they are and won't try to be malicious. I disagree that direct JTAG access is no more concerning of an attack vector than "normal" USB, mediated by the OS which at least in theory can mitigate attack from said devices. I'm sure there's bad poo poo there too but again, the policy shouldn't be to grow the attack surface. Please continue to be unnecessarily hostile though, it really adds to the conversation.
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Jan 14, 2017 18:34
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Combat Pretzel posted:I don't see any mainstream OS using IOMMUs for isolation (--edit: outside virtualization, anyway). Is that Intel's intention, or just an assumption? OSX uses IOMMU to completely isolate DMA peripherals since 10.8.2 (2012) provided the CPU supports it. Windows 10 doesn't use IOMMU but it at least has a simple mitigation for DMA attacks - it just turns off DMA for newly connected devices when the screen is locked. Good enough 
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Jan 14, 2017 18:46
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ohgodwhat posted:I disagree that direct JTAG access is no more concerning of an attack vector than "normal" USB, mediated by the OS which at least in theory can mitigate attack from said devices. I'm sure there's bad poo poo there too but again, the policy shouldn't be to grow the attack surface. You can disagree all you want, it's still true. The attack surface hasn't grown in the least. OSes being protected in theory doesn't matter, in theory you'll have a hard time using this thing as well.
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Jan 14, 2017 20:32
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I was wondering when fishmech was going to valiantly defend intel for what is a grievous fuckup especially on a product line that makes up the vast majority of their sales volume at least workstations and server racks aren't affected, whew 
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Jan 14, 2017 20:33
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Leaving JTAG interfaces open on consumer hardware via USB port seems like a bad idea IMO.
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Jan 14, 2017 20:46
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If someone has physical access to your pc/laptop, there are many ways you're already hosed. The JTAG/USB exploit makes it "many + 1" ways you're hosed So both camps are right. Now everyone kiss each other on the lips!
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Jan 14, 2017 20:55
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WAR DOGS OF SOCHI posted:If someone has physical access to your pc/laptop, there are many ways you're already hosed. 
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Jan 14, 2017 21:03
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There are a lot of gnarly attack surfaces these days. This is just a pretty deep one and Intel should really do whatever they can to stop it. Reminder that every time a security group comes up with a new smart way to reduce a system's attack surface it takes 10+ years to catch on if it does at all. The vast majority of Linux systems still don't have W^X even though OpenBSD has had it for 13 years and Windows has since XP SP2.
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Jan 14, 2017 21:25
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PerrineClostermann posted:Leaving JTAG interfaces open on consumer hardware via USB port seems like a bad idea IMO. Accessing the debug port can be extremely difficult to neigh impossible depending on how the board is designed. Probably even worse on these tiny ultra book boards. And you absolutely need debuggabilty. I mean it shouldn't be open to just anyone but having it over a port that is already there isn't a terrible idea on its own
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Jan 14, 2017 21:55
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:the thought of fishmech kissing anyone he can kiss my butt 
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Jan 15, 2017 00:13
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I need to buy a new rig and I just cannot pick between a Z270 + 7700k and a 2011v3 + 6800k. 4 vs 6 threads. 3.4Ghz base vs 4.2base HELP ME DECIDE !
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Jan 15, 2017 17:24
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redeyes posted:I need to buy a new rig and I just cannot pick between a Z270 + 7700k and a 2011v3 + 6800k. 4 vs 6 threads. 3.4Ghz base vs 4.2base Games?
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Jan 15, 2017 18:54
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Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:Games? I bought a RX480 recently. I would like to game a little. It's not my primary task though. I tend to do a lot of video compression and other various workstation type workloads which are limited by cores. I'm heading towards the Z270+7700k because I have a rack mount case and I cannot figure out how to properly cool a 140w 6800k with overclock. Maybe someone has some ideas.
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Jan 15, 2017 19:11
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what was your previous rig? You may end up saving money if you get a newer revision of an older Z170 (to avoid BIOS update hassle) or X99 motherboard. to be honest, if you went for a Skylake (6700K) or Haswell-E (5820K) CPU too, they'd probably be much better deals anyways. It's a steep $$$$$$$$ incline to reach those last few hundred hertz (or in broadwell-E's case, market segmentation) for consumers, and there's currently no practical difference between generations unless literal seconds make or break your work.redeyes posted:overclock. stop using a rackmount case unless you literally live in a server room and don't have space Sidesaddle Cavalry fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Jan 15, 2017 |
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Jan 15, 2017 19:40
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redeyes posted:I bought a RX480 recently. I would like to game a little. It's not my primary task though. I tend to do a lot of video compression and other various workstation type workloads which are limited by cores. I'm heading towards the Z270+7700k because I have a rack mount case and I cannot figure out how to properly cool a 140w 6800k with overclock. Maybe someone has some ideas. I forgot to directly answer your question. If you know for sure that 6 cores will get your stuff done faster then it's a no-brainer for the 6800K assuming you followed the second part of my first half of my double post and stopped using a rackmount case. If you're ok with losing however many minutes from NOT HAVING LATEST, GREATEST, MOST PRODUCTIVITIEST COMPUTER then please follow the first half of the first half of my double post too
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Jan 15, 2017 19:50
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redeyes posted:I cannot figure out how to properly cool a 140w 6800k with overclock. Maybe someone has some ideas. --edit: And yeah, rackmount, what the hell.
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Jan 15, 2017 20:00
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Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:I forgot to directly answer your question. If you know for sure that 6 cores will get your stuff done faster then it's a no-brainer for the 6800K assuming you followed the second part of my first half of my double post and stopped using a rackmount case. If you're ok with losing however many minutes from NOT HAVING LATEST, GREATEST, MOST PRODUCTIVITIEST COMPUTER then please follow the first half of the first half of my double post too I currently have a 6600k with z170 mobo running at 4Ghz. It's not bad at all but it is definitely slower than an i7. Then while I was looking to upgrade to the i7 I figure I would upgrade the mobo... then I noticed the 6800k and the price difference in total is around $150 bux. Truth is I don't know if 4.8ish Ghz x4 cores would be a better idea than 6x 4.0Ghz cores (all overclocked). Bottom line, I am going to sell my current 6600k+z170.
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Jan 15, 2017 20:00
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Combat Pretzel posted:Stick a Dark Rock Pro 3 or a Noctua NH-D15 on it. Hey man, rackmount is super industrial looking. I like it. It can't really deal with high end gaming / oc'd PCs. though. I thought about getting rid of the case and going opposite.. maybe a open air wall mount case. I do tend to flip systems about every year or 2 so I was thinking maybe I should just go with the cheaper option and wait until Intel has something truely better assuming Ryzen gives them some competition. redeyes fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Jan 15, 2017 |
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Jan 15, 2017 20:02
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Water cool 
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Jan 15, 2017 20:06
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A 5U case would at least have the kind of heatsink headroom people have come to expect of standard workstation/Steamstation cases worth dollars. It would take up as prodigious amounts of desk and/or wallet space as you'd expect it to take up in its proper place in the rack, however. Then again, I'm the kind of person that would, after everything else, probably still buy another Silverstone PS07 for a new build because there's something deeply wrong with me. dont be mean to me fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Jan 15, 2017 |
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Jan 15, 2017 20:07
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redeyes posted:Truth is I don't know if 4.8ish Ghz x4 cores would be a better idea than 6x 4.0Ghz cores (all overclocked). Bottom line, I am going to sell my current 6600k+z170. How familiar are you with BIOS settings? Please test your workload with only 3 or 2 cores running and check that against how quick you get your stuff done now. a 7700K (clockspeed aside) would essentially only add hyperthreading to your four cores, and that's not actually adding more cores, to be perfectly obvious. E: warning: this test might not help you with anything at all because some applications may not be designed to scale with [fewer]/[more than a certain number] of cores anyways Sidesaddle Cavalry fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Jan 15, 2017 |
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Jan 15, 2017 20:10
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PerrineClostermann posted:Water cool I can't fit anything except a 120mm x 1 radiator 
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Jan 15, 2017 20:16
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redeyes posted:Hey man, rackmount is super industrial looking. I like it. It can't really deal with high end gaming / oc'd PCs. though. I thought about getting rid of the case and going opposite.. maybe a open air wall mount case.
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Jan 15, 2017 20:17
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Combat Pretzel posted:If it's about the terrible look of many cases, there's plenty of plain ones out there. A reason why I opted for the Corsair 550D back then. If I had to get a new case now, it'd be the NZXT S340. Thats actually a really nice case. Any ideas on an open air type? With all the RGB leds on everything it could be nice to wall mount something and have the pretty lights.
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Jan 15, 2017 20:20
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redeyes posted:Any ideas on an open air type?  https://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cases_cooling/aerocool_strike-x_air_review/2 Also, the whole RGB stuff kind of pisses me off. --edit: I guess with the use of PCIe ribbon extensions, you might be able to tack components to the wall naked. Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Jan 15, 2017 |
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Jan 15, 2017 20:27
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smfh if you aren't using a 3U or taller for gaming in rackmount cases
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Jan 15, 2017 20:51
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These guys have some nice, non stupid XTREME open chassis. The vertical one is pretty nifty. http://www.highspeedpc.com/ Not cheap but they can also build to spec if need be. priznat fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Jan 15, 2017 |
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Jan 15, 2017 21:20
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Anyone remember this? - http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cases/2008/11/12/antec-skeleton/3 I remember really wanting one at the time, until I read the reviews. Back then I was probably rocking either an E6600 or Q9300 in a Coolermaster Cavalier case (black and purple). Can't remember the motherboard. Probably a Gigabyte with large pipes. Also around at the time were expensive perspex semi-open cases. Can't remember the brand.
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Jan 16, 2017 00:13
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apropos man posted:Anyone remember this? - Thermaltake perhaps? http://www.thermaltake.com/products-model.aspx?id=C_00002732
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Jan 16, 2017 00:36
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apropos man posted:I remember really wanting one at the time, until I read the reviews. Back then I was probably rocking either an E6600 or Q9300 in a Coolermaster Cavalier case (black and purple). Can't remember the motherboard. Probably a Gigabyte with large pipes. 
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Jan 16, 2017 01:02
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redeyes posted:I can't fit anything except a 120mm x 1 radiator I require the largest radiators https://youtu.be/6hFPDAASBZw
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Jan 16, 2017 01:09
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Combat Pretzel posted:Nope not really. I poked around a bit on GIS and ran into travesties like this: Aerocool makes really pretty stuff and some hideously ugly stuff and that definitely fits in the latter category.
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Jan 16, 2017 02:05
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priznat posted:Thermaltake perhaps? This is probably what I am going to end up getting. Really neat idea and it fits with my wall mounted 49" Samsung quantum dot TV/Monitor I am not into water cooling because it scares the hell out of me. On the other hand, I don't want a vacuum cleaner at ear level on my wall. I suppose i better read up on water because that is my best option. Here is my setup:   redeyes fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Jan 16, 2017 |
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Jan 16, 2017 05:11
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redeyes posted:This is probably what I am going to end up getting. Really neat idea and it fits with my wall mounted 49" Samsung quantum dot TV/Monitor I am not into water cooling because it scares the hell out of me. On the other hand, I don't want a vacuum cleaner at ear level on my wall. I suppose i better read up on water because that is my best option. We have a thread for you, join us on the wet side
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Jan 16, 2017 05:18
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PerrineClostermann posted:We have a thread for you, join us on the wet side Thanks, I will join the golden shower.
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Jan 16, 2017 05:30
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redeyes posted:Thanks, I will join the golden shower. Something something make water cooling great again
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Jan 16, 2017 05:41
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Late to the case recommendation party, but if you were still considering an enclosed metal box then Lian Li makes a lot of high-end minimalist ones from aluminum.
Sidesaddle Cavalry fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Jan 16, 2017 |
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Jan 16, 2017 06:14
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