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Pryor on Fire posted:Have you literally never taken any class related to economics, money, or business, while simultaneously never having any single conversation with anyone about how pricing works? Come on, at least he isn't misusing excessively powerful SSDs for gaming. In seriousness, some people actually browse SH/SC to learn things. It shouldn't come as a surprise if someone made a few wrong turns in life and says something wrong on the internet. You could just ignore the post and move on, or actually be helpful to a layman.
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Feb 12, 2017 14:55
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Pryor on Fire posted:Have you literally never taken any class related to economics, money, or business, while simultaneously never having any single conversation with anyone about how pricing works? Wow, I just mentioned that Intel didn't lower their prices during Pentium 4 era (as far as I know) even though they had a vastly inferior product than AMD, which is an indicator there's even a lower chance they'll do it now. Chill the gently caress down.
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Feb 12, 2017 15:20
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Otakufag posted:Wow, I just mentioned that Intel didn't lower their prices during Pentium 4 era (as far as I know) even though they had a vastly inferior product than AMD, which is an indicator there's even a lower chance they'll do it now. Chill the gently caress down. They probably can't get away with it now because what saved them in the Pentium 4 era was everyone assumed mhz = speed, and they'd reached a brick wall there. So people in the know new AMD was better but most people looking at the specs wouldn't realize that. Now, the Ryzen look better both on benchmarks and things that a random person would look at and think more=better (specifically, cores). And the people buying the really high-end chips are almost certainly comparison shopping and Intel will need to respond there.
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Feb 12, 2017 16:59
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evilweasel posted:They probably can't get away with it now because what saved them in the Pentium 4 era was everyone assumed mhz = speed, and they'd reached a brick wall there. So people in the know new AMD was better but most people looking at the specs wouldn't realize that. Don't forget the illegal as gently caress price fixing/rebate scam, where they locked in every major manufacturer with an exclusivity deal, where they get a $300 proc for like $90, but only if they only use intel chips. 10 years later they got slapped with a huge fine for it, about 8 years too late to fix the issue.
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Feb 12, 2017 17:58
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Methylethylaldehyde posted:Don't forget the illegal as gently caress price fixing/rebate scam, where they locked in every major manufacturer with an exclusivity deal, where they get a $300 proc for like $90, but only if they only use intel chips. 10 years later they got slapped with a huge fine for it, about 8 years too late to fix the issue.
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Feb 12, 2017 18:37
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:intel is particularly lucky nobody wants to bother with ARM yet largely because microsoft has yet to jump ship from x86-64 or move towards ARM operating systems Windows RT 
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Feb 12, 2017 18:39
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isn't part of that microsoft still wanting to sell a regular surface tablet since intel poo poo the bed on making <3w atom chips?
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Feb 12, 2017 18:43
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NewFatMike posted:Windows RT You mean that thing that's pretty much dead? They haven't even brought it up to Windows 10 level, or introduced a version for 64 bit ARM, it's not been touched since 2015. Anime Schoolgirl posted:isn't part of that microsoft still wanting to sell a regular surface tablet since intel poo poo the bed on making <3w atom chips? The Surface tablets with ARM was discontinued in January 2015, and the only other Windows RT device in production was a Nokia tablet that got discontinued in February 2015. Since the Surface 3, all "Surface" branded devices have been x86-64.
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Feb 12, 2017 19:16
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fishmech posted:You mean that thing that's pretty much dead? They haven't even brought it up to Windows 10 level, or introduced a version for 64 bit ARM, it's not been touched since 2015. http://www.theverge.com/2017/1/31/14450780/microsoft-windows-10-cloud
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Feb 12, 2017 20:53
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That's not actually targeted at ARM CPUs at the moment. Current plans seem to suggest it's going for the low-end x86 laptop market again, in a similar way to Windows 7 Starter.
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Feb 12, 2017 20:58
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I keep hearing rumours that Apple will ditch Intel for ARM in their laptops. This wouldn't have a massive effect volume wise but with the amount of press Apple gets for every little thing it would seem like a bigger deal for Intel.
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Feb 12, 2017 21:07
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priznat posted:I keep hearing rumours that Apple will ditch Intel for ARM in their laptops. This wouldn't have a massive effect volume wise but with the amount of press Apple gets for every little thing it would seem like a bigger deal for Intel. I've heard that and related rumours that they will lock down the app store like iOS so they won't be general purpose computers anymore
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Feb 12, 2017 21:09
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I’ve heard that Apple murders Christian children and uses their blood to manufacture iDevices.
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Feb 12, 2017 21:14
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mewse posted:I've heard that and related rumours that they will lock down the app store like iOS so they won't be general purpose computers anymore Gross. Isn't that also something Microsoft is planning too, only signed apps from their store? They probably have a disable switch (hopefully) though.
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Feb 12, 2017 21:14
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priznat posted:I keep hearing rumours that Apple will ditch Intel for ARM in their laptops. This wouldn't have a massive effect volume wise but with the amount of press Apple gets for every little thing it would seem like a bigger deal for Intel. Those rumors started about as soon as Apple finally dumped PowerPC, over 10 years ago (and before that, there were people swearing the next move after PowerPC would be ARM, just as others swore it'd be MIPS or whatever). Really what makes that particular rumor bullshit though, is the lack of mentioning what they'd do with their desktops. It really wouldn't make sense for them to make ARM laptops but still just x86-64 Mac Pros and iMacs. priznat posted:Gross. Isn't that also something Microsoft is planning too, only signed apps from their store? They probably have a disable switch (hopefully) though. Windows RT only ran apps from the store by default, but no one cared because a) nobody bought Windows RT devices and b) there weren't really any ARM-architecture Windows applications to run that weren't on the Windows store to start with.
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Feb 12, 2017 21:16
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Microsoft has seemed to have a hardon for that ever since they started pushing TPM -- they kept saying total trusted execution path will protect everyone from viruses blah blah. I think their customers would revolt.
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Feb 12, 2017 21:17
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priznat posted:I keep hearing rumours that Apple will ditch Intel for ARM in their laptops. This wouldn't have a massive effect volume wise but with the amount of press Apple gets for every little thing it would seem like a bigger deal for Intel.
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Feb 12, 2017 21:24
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fishmech posted:Really what makes that particular rumor bullshit though, is the lack of mentioning what they'd do with their desktops. It really wouldn't make sense for them to make ARM laptops but still just x86-64 Mac Pros and iMacs. Apple has been neglecting their entire desktop line quote:The Mac mini was last updated in October 2014 The performance hasn't been there to justify a refresh but the neglect might mean they'll tell people to hook up a macbook pro to a monitor
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Feb 12, 2017 21:25
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fishmech posted:Those rumors started about as soon as Apple finally dumped PowerPC, over 10 years ago (and before that, there were people swearing the next move after PowerPC would be ARM, just as others swore it'd be MIPS or whatever). Yeah it's a rumour with just enough "yeah that could be" to keep it alive. Especially with laptops as underpowered as the Macbook in the product lineup with beefy ipad pro tablets. Convert the macbook to be a different form factor ipad pro with an attached keyboard and trackpad and.. I have no idea what the point of that would be. It seems everyone is wondering what the heck Apple is planning with their desktops, they did refresh the iMac somewhat but the Mac Pro hasn't been refreshed in like 3 years now? The only CPUs that would make sense for those would be Xeon/HEDT really. It's all academic interest for me since I wouldn't be getting an Apple desktop/laptop anyway but they get the headlines..
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Feb 12, 2017 21:26
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Thing is that iMacs usually just get laptop type chipsets placed into them. They've slacked on that lately, but they were also pretty slow to do the last line of MacBook refreshes. It would be weird for them to completely discontinue the iMac when they're still selling pretty well in comparison to the MacBooks. And as for the Mac Pro not getting updated, well, their last update also took many many years - before the 2013 trashcan Mac Pros, the last real update had been in 2010 (there was a 2012 "update", but the only change there was Apple made available some slightly faster CPUs that you could already put in the existing Mac Pro). It also seems likely that Apple painted themselves into a corner with the trashcan Mac Pro design since it doesn't really seem amenable to ongoing development.
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Feb 12, 2017 22:09
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fishmech posted:And as for the Mac Pro not getting updated, well, their last update also took many many years - before the 2013 trashcan Mac Pros, the last real update had been in 2010 (there was a 2012 "update", but the only change there was Apple made available some slightly faster CPUs that you could already put in the existing Mac Pro). It also seems likely that Apple painted themselves into a corner with the trashcan Mac Pro design since it doesn't really seem amenable to ongoing development. And the 2010 Mac Pro was itself a 2009 with a firmware update.
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Feb 12, 2017 22:17
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fishmech posted:You mean that thing that's pretty much dead? They haven't even brought it up to Windows 10 level, or introduced a version for 64 bit ARM, it's not been touched since 2015. That's the joke, you see.
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Feb 12, 2017 22:22
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The rumour I read that seems at least plausible was that MacBooks would get an ARM chip to handle certain functions when the laptop is asleep. Like get patches or check messages. There's already a custom ARM CPU in the current MacBook Pro that controls the touchbar.
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Feb 12, 2017 23:00
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Riflen posted:The rumour I read that seems at least plausible was that MacBooks would get an ARM chip to handle certain functions when the laptop is asleep. Like get patches or check messages. Evoking memories of Windows Sideshow.
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Feb 12, 2017 23:49
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Riflen posted:The rumour I read that seems at least plausible was that MacBooks would get an ARM chip to handle certain functions when the laptop is asleep. Like get patches or check messages. What purpose does that serve? Phones fulfill the notification role. Are there people who walk around all day with a 13″ notebook and think “if only my notebook checked messages and beeped at me so I could be free of this burdensome phone”? Platystemon fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Feb 13, 2017 |
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Feb 13, 2017 00:12
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If the arm mini-cpu is keeping software updated while the laptop is turned off, it would avoid a lot of the "updating please wait" that occasional users experience if they pull out the laptop to travel
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Feb 13, 2017 00:38
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Platystemon posted:What purpose does that serve? Intel tried that once back in the Ivybridge "Throw whatever phone like feature we can at users to get them to keep buying laptops" days. Secondary e-ink screens for email, periodically waking laptop to fetch updates, why didn't this catch on?!?!
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Feb 13, 2017 07:51
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Combat Pretzel posted:If this were true, this'd go over so goddamn well (like not). While most people just browse the drat web, a fair share of them have very occasional bouts of power usage, and this is where ARM will gently caress them over and upset them. Both in performance and app availability. Actually Apple's custom ARM designs are really good and I have little doubt that they could make good performing laptop or desktop ARM chips. It's probably mainly the software reasons that have prevented them from doing this.
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Feb 13, 2017 08:23
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MaxxBot posted:Actually Apple's custom ARM designs are really good and I have little doubt that they could make good performing laptop or desktop ARM chips. It's probably mainly the software reasons that have prevented them from doing this. This didn't prevent them last time.
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Feb 13, 2017 08:46
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WhyteRyce posted:Intel tried that once back in the Ivybridge "Throw whatever phone like feature we can at users to get them to keep buying laptops" days. Secondary e-ink screens for email, periodically waking laptop to fetch updates, why didn't this catch on?!?!
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Feb 13, 2017 08:49
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I thought that was simply a software thing and not something someone put in the CPU?
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Feb 13, 2017 08:50
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MaxxBot posted:Actually Apple's custom ARM designs are really good and I have little doubt that they could make good performing laptop or desktop ARM chips. It's probably mainly the software reasons that have prevented them from doing this. It's more like they're in a holding pattern with the Mac, trying to wait and see how the PC world evolves in the mobile era before bothering to commit resources to doing something huge like switching to ARM. But, even if they did, they basically already have a ARM laptop in the iPad Pro. If they made some big interface changes, and stuck a permanent keyboard to it, it'd be a simpler solution than porting all of MacOS (with broken compatibility with all its old software) to ARM.
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Feb 13, 2017 10:07
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aren't iOS and macOS pretty similar to begin with?
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Feb 13, 2017 10:38
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Apple can't actually do better than Intel at laptop level chips-- their process advantage is really excellent at that level and as we've seen with amd pretty much everyone can do similar architectural optimizations, with intel being the leader anyway. Where intel suffered was phone level due to margins and arm being competitive if not better. So you'll see a hybrid approach where Apple shifts less demanding tasks like email updates and notifications to the T1 soc to save power and give a more tablet like experience but will very likely keep the Intel soc ( remember that they can't just license thunderbolt 3 or even use Intel's Peak chips and they bet the farm on tb3) for its performance and efficiency and also not having to e.g. reimplement a USB 3.1 controller and display port and HDMI and pcie and x and y and z They could do it, but Intel does it now and there's no compelling reason to switch. (Plus the arch shift is not costless if it loses major first party apps like office and Adobe for a while)
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Feb 13, 2017 11:00
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iOS and macos are derived from the same core but that doesn't mean much Apple shifting to its own chips would be purely a supply chain thing. They don't want to be screwed again with a disappointment MacBook because intel couldn't make kaby lake in time. The price would be multi sourcing from tsmc Samsung and maybe even intel if intel foundry lets them. It would likely cost them more too
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Feb 13, 2017 11:04
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You don't just spin a soc at 10nm either it costs hundreds of millions and with multi sourcing double it So Apple can amortize the cost over tens of millions of iPhones and ipads( less and less ipads, they are lagging here) but for the much smaller Mac market? It'd take a lot to make them switch I dont doubt they have a team working on it but unless intel fucks up again it's unlikely. More likely they get amd to do a GPU CPU full soc deal ( Apple pushed for crystal well remember) and that works better.
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Feb 13, 2017 11:09
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Ryzen MacBooks when?
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Feb 13, 2017 11:32
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Kazinsal posted:Ryzen MacBooks when? Never.
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Feb 13, 2017 11:33
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Platystemon posted:Never. They already use AMD GPUs, so if they actually offered a decent CPU that was competitive in every way, I really don't see why not
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Feb 13, 2017 11:49
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That's a big if.
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Feb 13, 2017 12:49
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