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If you do delid, do you really have to use this liquid metal stuff? As far as I can tell it's hard to apply, might move around after installation and may have to be reapplied after a few years. Not really something I'm super keen on dealing with. How much do you lose from just using a regular high end thermal paste instead?
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Nov 28, 2017 00:31
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Koramei posted:is there a tutorial for a proper way to do it? I decided against getting a new CPU for now (thanks for the responses) but I kinda want to replace the thermal paste on my current old one and I would rather not do that to it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYnUfXl0Gdw
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Nov 29, 2017 01:17
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CapnBry posted:Well my Black Friday 8700k batch L733C517 came today and I am unhappy to report that I think I've got the worst chip to come out of the fab. Just setting it 47x on all cores 0 AVX and running x265 encoding, Core VID is 1.519V. I've got my ASRock Extreme4 set to LLC 5 (lowest possible load 'boost') and I hit 90C in a few seconds as you'd expect with a 1.519 vcore and a package TDP of 212W. When you've figured out what the stock VCore is you can try raising the multiplier and when it stops being stable at load then you can turn LLC up a step or two to see how much that brings the max load VCore up to.
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Nov 29, 2017 13:10
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INTJ Mastermind posted:Four small dots silicone on the corners of the IHS as in the photo above, then compressed with the Rocket88 relid tool for 24 hours before reinstalling. Just to double check here, you are letting your liquid cooling loop stabilize, right? With an air cooler, when you put load on the CPU you'll see an almost instant temperature spike to somewhere near where it'll stabilize eventually, but liquid coolers don't behave like that - they can take like half an hour to ramp up to stable temperature. Sorry if this is explaining something obvious to you 
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Dec 3, 2017 23:16
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My brand new i7-8700K with an Asus BIOS update from earlier this week has all greens. Weirdly enough the BIOS update is dated just before Christmas but it only showed up on Asus website earlier this week. I've found Asus pretty good about providing updates and support for their legacy products in the past, but who knows how far they'll go with this. Kenshin posted:I assume this means that when I put together my new computer tomorrow (or tonight) with an ASUS Prime Z370-A I'll have a BIOS update waiting for me? Yep, version 0606 should have the microcode update. TheFluff fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Jan 6, 2018 |
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Jan 6, 2018 03:15
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Paul MaudDib posted:This depends on what game you're playing. Like, wildly so. Many, many popular games are CPU bottlenecked, and even if the averages are OK the minimums sometimes are not. I'm not so sure about that. Some games that you'd think for sure would be CPU bound (for example, Factorio) are actually memory bound. You see the same in video processing too - many simple filters (such as resizers, 3x3 convolutions, simple FIR filters, etc) are actually memory bound these days. The CPU's are already too fast and there are too many threads.
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May 18, 2018 00:17
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eames posted:That may be a concern for mobile CPUs but I don't think there's a single retail Z370/H390 board out there that can't sustain all-core turbo on a i7-8700. IIRC there was a OEM machine on computerbase that couldn't but that was because the BIOS had a hardcoded 65W power limit and the machine didn't have a single case fan. The reality is that retail Z370 boards launched with MCE enabled (= single core turbo on all cores). In der8auer's testing the lowest end Z370 boards could only sustain ~120W without airflow over the VRM's. My i7-8700K is a pretty bad overclocker and easily draws 150W under some heavy workloads, and that's with manual voltage settings. With stock voltages it would draw more, and I'm pretty sure I recall it drawing 170W in P95 at 4.7GHz with stock voltage. You can get away with MCE enabled by default anyway because even people who buy i7's don't run Blender CPU renders all day long, but low end Z370 boards really do have VRM's that are dimensioned for stock TDP on an i7, not all-core max turbo. Especially if you plan on running heavy workloads for extended periods of time - the caps will burn out eventually. TheFluff fucked around with this message at 23:02 on May 21, 2018 |
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May 21, 2018 22:58
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Glorious Hair Man is not impressed and says it's just a 28-core Skylake-X that there is no way you will ever run at 5GHz on ambient cooling: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRH0-QwhvVQ
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Jun 6, 2018 19:52
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K8.0 posted:This is a genuinely fantastic video. GamersNexus might have a silly name but it's legitimately some of the best hardware journalism around. Where else do you even see standard deviation bars in enthusiast hardware benchmarking charts? It's usually really dry in presentation but when they do jokes, they're actually pretty funny.
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Jun 6, 2018 22:33
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this sure is a motherboard  and it has RGB LED headers, of course  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBmrlHi4s4g TheFluff fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Jun 8, 2018 |
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Jun 8, 2018 16:23
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redeyes posted:I accidentally bought a 8700k.. without thinking about the cooler. I just have a 30 bux Xigmatec 120mm heatpipe direct cooler. I assume this will not do at all for this new chip. Halp. If you're gonna overclock: Noctua NH-D15, BeQuiet Dark Rock Pro 4, Cryorig R1 Ultimate If not: Cryorig H7 or something, whatever works closed loop liquid coolers are a waste of money
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Jun 27, 2018 21:11
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redeyes posted:I was just looking at the numbering scheme and going wtf. I wouldn't mind overclocking at all. Think the H5 can handle it? Internets say about 170w expected AVX maxed out at like 4.9Ghz all cores. According to their docs, it can handle 180w TDP. Yeah, 170W is about right for a max AVX load at those settings - that's about what mine draws according to the software measurements. If you're not delidded though, any conventional cooler is going to have a hard time handling 170W heat load, but that's more because of poor heat transfer out of the die than the performance of the heatsink. That being said, max AVX loads aren't realistic and the heaviest loads you'll see in real applications will probably land somewhere around 120-140W. If you are going to overclock though and aren't delidded then you're probably going to be limited by thermals and you'll want the biggest cooler you can get. Unless you're prepared to throw out at least $150 or so, the all-in-one liquid coolers aren't meaningfully better than the highest end air coolers (which are around $80-90), so they're not really worth spending money on. They tend to be louder than air cooling too unless you buy better fans for them.
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Jun 27, 2018 21:44
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sincx posted:AIO coolers have the distinct advantages of directly dumping heat outside the case, and also places minimal pressure on sockets. Minimum pressure on the socket, sure, that's a legitimate advantage. On most midtower cases though, you have a front fan blowing cold air directly into the CPU cooler, which in turn is blowing hot air directly at the exhaust fan at the back (on most cases we're talking a few centimeters between heatsink and exhaust fan), so it's not like you're circulating that much hot air in there. I guess there's a bit of radiation going on, but that's really not much to worry about. Plus, you get airflow over your VRM's for free, which is legitimately a thing you have to worry about with 6- and 8-cores on a lot of midrange motherboards. On a small form factor build though I'll concede the point, because it's usually far easier to find space for a 240mm radiator than for a gigantic dual tower aircooler. TheFluff fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Jun 27, 2018 |
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Jun 27, 2018 22:00
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redeyes posted:I don't have any bros. ;_; The ones that are cheaper than top end air coolers also perform worse than top end air coolers. You'll want at least a 240mm one to get any kind of improvement over top end air cooling, and decent ones start somewhere around $120, but really, if you're throwing down that kind of money you might as well shoot for the best you can get. The one mewse linked is one of the best options. You'll pay twice as much as you would for an air cooler to lower temps by maybe 5-10 degrees Celsius. A far better use of that money would be to send the CPU to Silicon Lottery for their delidding service, which will cost you $45 and lower temperatures by around 20 degrees Celsius. TheFluff fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Jun 27, 2018 |
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Jun 27, 2018 22:21
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Der8auer hints at an upcoming soldered Intel CPU:quote:It sounds like there's a lot you're not excited about in the high-end CPU space right now. Let's talk about what you do think is interesting and new right now.
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Jun 28, 2018 15:03
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spasticColon posted:Is adding two more cores and hyper-threading really going to cause the TDP on 9000 series i7s to go to the moon? I guess if all they do is add two more cores and everything else more or less the same they'll only have to raise TDP by 30% to fit the same all-core turbo. The i7-8700K is already perfectly capable of drawing >150W sustained if you let it run all cores at its stock max turbo though.
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Jul 4, 2018 02:13
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If you get a Z370 board you can just enable "multi-core enhancement" or whatever the motherboard manufacturer calls the setting to get all cores to boost to max turbo clock at the same time even with a locked chip. The difference between the 8700 and the 8700K is completely negligible then.
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Jul 30, 2018 17:39
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ACTUALLY, a vice is a bad habit a vise is a clamping device (at least in american english) i'm sorry, there was no reason for this post, it's a very common spelling, i just couldn't help myself
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Sep 23, 2018 00:31
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Tech Jesus on Gigabyte's Z390 BIOSes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ex3Q34db1M
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Oct 8, 2018 17:22
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I disagree. Don't buy closed loop/all-in-one liquid coolers for a soldered CPU, it's a complete waste of money. I too have a 8700K, running 4.9GHz @ 1.34v under a Noctua NH-D15, but I've delidded it and replaced the stock TIM with liquid metal. When it's pulling 175W in AVX benchmarks it gets up to 65-70C if I put the fans to 100% (1500RPM). The bottleneck on the 8th gen isn't heat transfer from the cooler to the ambient air, it's from the silicon to the CPU heatspreader. If you're getting the 9900K and plan on pushing it really hard, your average run of the mill 280mm AIO probably isn't going to cut it either, you'll probably want a really fat 360mm or some custom thing.
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Oct 8, 2018 19:58
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Eararaldor posted:I don't think a 280mm AIO would fit. The air vent above is 210mm long by 150mm. Or am I being retarded? Depends on if it's there's more space around the vent, I guess. You don't strictly need to have open airflow through the entire radiator, although it certainly does help. What case is it, though? Usually the manual or manufacturer's product page will state what radiator sizes it supports and in which positions. Again, though, I really don't agree with the recommendation for AIO coolers for these CPU's.
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Oct 8, 2018 20:12
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future ghost posted:Are Intel TDP values just fantasy numbers? 95W doesn't seem like a lot since it's in-line with my 2600K before overclocking, though I guess I've missed a few years of lower TDPs.
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Oct 8, 2018 23:15
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8700K prices took a huge jump all over EU in the last few days of September. It was stable at around 340-350€ all year but then it suddenly jumped 100€ and now it’s either out of stock or 450€ everywhere. Not a great time to be buying Intel. You pretty much have to wait until the 9th gen prices drop.
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Oct 9, 2018 16:28
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Tech Jesus is on the case, and is going to literally go knock on the benchmarking company's door today to ask them if they have a few moments to talk about  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1mJMI_uaa8
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Oct 9, 2018 20:01
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https://twitter.com/GamersNexus/status/1049757708918886404
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Oct 9, 2018 21:59
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i7-8700K: i5-8400:  Note that you can't actually buy the i5-8400 for €239 at the moment, it's on backorder with deliveries expected on October 29.
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Oct 14, 2018 19:14
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Hold The Ashes posted:He says it's wishful thinking in this quarter. He immediately says it's a certain possibility in the months after it. You know, seconds after what you're saying you managed to hear. It isn't hard. who the gently caress are you and why are you suddenly making GBS threads up all the hardware threads
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Oct 14, 2018 20:03
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eames posted:I tried the D15S with the 140mm/120mm setup because my case/ram limits the size of the front fan and found that the combination is a lot louder than the stock single fan setup while only lowering temps by 1-2 Celsius under full load. YMMV. That guide (here if you want to read it) is bizarre though, especially if you're planning to use it for a daily overclock. They start off with disabling C-states and SpeedShift, which means that instead of idling at 800MHz with very little power consumption, the CPU will be running all cores at 5GHz all the time at the full voltage. This is a terrible idea and will run hot all the time. It might help somewhat if you're trying to squeeze out the last few dozens of MHz under liquid nitrogen or something, and it might've been useful for older CPU's (like Core 2 Q6600 and older), but for a daily overclock today it's crazy. Raising TjMax is also a terrible idea - you shouldn't be running at 100C regularly anyway. Then there's the fact that the guide isn't even really overclocking in the first place since the 9900K already has a 5.0GHz stock turbo! You probably don't have to set voltage manually at all to get it to do 5GHz on all core, but here they set a fixed vcore instead of using adaptive mode like a sane person. Benchmarking using Prime95's small FFT isn't really useful either. The temperature data is kinda weird too. As far as I can tell from the screenshot they're "only" pushing ~240W to the CPU, which in itself sounds perfectly reasonable and expected. My delidded 8700K draws ~180W in the same scenario with similar voltages, and 240W is ~33% more power for ~33% more cores - very reasonable. However, when I do that I get around 70-75C under a NH-D15, and a custom water loop should have one hell of a lot more heat dissipation than that, so either the solder is terrible or there's something weird with their setup.
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Oct 17, 2018 16:57
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feeling very good about being a delidded 8700K haver right now
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Oct 19, 2018 17:09
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The i5-9600K is most likely perfectly fine under air cooling. For gaming there is very little reason to buy anything more expensive than that. If you want 16 threads the Ryzen 7 2700 offers an amazing deal at $250. The only reason to buy a 9900K is if you're doing something incredibly specific and weird like streaming a very single thread-bound game like DotA2, using x264 encoding on the CPU, and you're comfortable with blowing several hundred dollars extra instead of using very slightly lower quality encoding settings.
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Oct 19, 2018 18:55
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axeil posted:I play a lot of Paradox games and they seem to slow down horribly with my i5 4690k so I wanted to at least go to an i7, possibly an i9 if it really helps. I don't think it does. AFAIK most Paradox games (with the possible exception of HoI4) are mainly bottlenecked on singlethread performance. OC your 4690K to 4.5GHz if you can and if you're not satisfied with that get a 9600K and overclock it to 5GHz. Six cores are still more than enough for the foreseeable future. TheFluff fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Oct 19, 2018 |
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Oct 19, 2018 19:49
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Meanwhile, in the EU, pretty much all of the Intel CPU's from the i5-8400 and up are still either unobtanium or come with a >100€ premium or both. It's been like this for almost a month now. The i5-8400 used to be 180€. Currently it's 240€, but it's not actually available at that price - estimated delivery early November. If you want it now, it's 280€, and at that point you might as well get an i5-8600K, which is available, at 290€ - used to be around 220€. It's the same for the 8th gen i7's - the i7-8700 is 400€ (used to be well under 300€) and the i7-8700K is €440 (used to be €340). You can get a i5-9600K, but it's 350€, more than what the i7-8700K cost a month ago, and the 8700K is a significantly better CPU. The 9700K is 500€ and out of stock for the foreseeable future, the 9900K 700€ and likewise. 700€ is quite close to the launch price for the Threadripper 2920X.
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Oct 21, 2018 01:26
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Wooper posted:Can you overclock fewer than all cores? Does it even make sense? Yes and yes. Intel CPU's with stock settings will run higher frequencies the fewer cores are under load, and you can use that kind of setting for overclocking as well. You could for example configure your CPU to run 5 GHz if all cores are under load but 5.1 if two or fewer cores are loaded, and so on.
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Oct 21, 2018 02:56
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GamersNexus wrote up a 9900K delidding guide. They gained 4.5 degrees over the solder without sanding down the die. They did sand down the IHS though and say that doing so is pretty much necessary, since without that step the surface won't be smooth enough for the liquid metal to stick to.
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Oct 24, 2018 14:27
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Network drivers being bundled onboard the motherboard itself is loving genius and avoids a step that you are inevitably going to forget (downloading the drivers onto an USB stick on a different computer, and if you don't have a different computer or a USB stick handy you get to feel really stupid), and you can turn it off with the flip of a switch after you've used it and don't want the other Asus bloatware, so this is in fact cool & good.
TheFluff fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Oct 24, 2018 |
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Oct 24, 2018 15:19
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I agree that adding this capability to UEFI in the first place was probably not a good idea since it's so easy to abuse, and there is no shortage of greybeards hating everything about UEFI in general, but this instance really is quite harmless. If you don't want it, just turn it off. Sure they could document it better, but it's not like it's malicious or hidden.
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Oct 24, 2018 16:55
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il serpente cosmico posted:I've been keeping voltage at auto for my 8700K on my MSI Z370 board. In the past I've always set it manually, but it never goes above 1.32v and it stays low when I'm not at load, which I like. Is there any reason to set it manually? It's pretty much the easiest OC I've ever done. What you want for a 24/7 overclock on Z370 is usually adaptive mode, which is basically the same as what the CPU would do at stock settings, except you can optionally add extra voltage for turbo clocks and optionally set an offset to the entire voltage range. Manual mode (fixed vcore for all frequencies) is for extreme overclocking only. If you're using automatic voltage regulation with no offsets and you're stable at a frequency you're happy with at a safe voltage and temperature, you don't really need to do anything more. You could maybe use the offset to lower the voltage some more if you like, but that's it.
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Oct 28, 2018 00:10
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Weirdly enough I think the best bang for your buck for Z390 is probably Gigabyte. Buildzoid mentioned recently that he would be reviewing a bunch of their Z390 boards, since they had actually reached out and sampled him (!) with both boards and a 9900K, and that they had improved their VRM's a lot. BIOS probably still on the labyrinthine side, though.
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Nov 5, 2018 20:47
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Zigmidge posted:I think I've asked this in this thread before but how do you find what those should be set to? My z370-a will default to like 1.2-1.3v at max oc. I've dropped them to about 1.15 each and it seems fine. I've been seeing people posting theirs at sub 1v but when I drop mine below 1.10 with an oc running my audio comes out extremely stuttery. Is this a trial and error thing like the rest? You can go look up the extremely exciting publication called 8th and 9th Generation Intel(r) Core(tm) Processor Families and Intel(r) Xeon(r) E Processor Family: Datasheet, Volume 1 of 2 where you'll find the voltages in question on pages 128 and 129, or your BIOS might say (I think the Asus ones usually do), but to save you the lookup for Z370 the stock values are 0.95v VccIO and 1.05v VccSA. I run mine around 1.1v I think. Anything below 1.2v is probably safe for long term use, but lower is of course (very slightly) better for power consumption and heat.
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Nov 12, 2018 21:47
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I run 4.9 with no offset on a delidded 8700K at 1.34v (keep in mind though that software voltage readings are not entirely reliable and I think at least on Asus boards they changed how it's reported between Z370 and Z390). What I did find though was that my chip seems quite temperature sensitive, at least when running AVX benchmarks. Small sample size and some risk of confirmation bias but when I was playing around with it last time, it seemed to be significantly more stable if kept under 75-ish C. I started running all of my super heavy AVX benchmarks (OCCT small dataset, p95) at 100% fan speed on everything because of that - they're a highly unrealistic load anyway.
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Nov 19, 2018 18:58
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