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PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009



mew force shoelace posted:

The return of the turbo button

Taking steps backward in order to make leaps forward?

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PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009



quote:

Other Platform Features

Sandy Bridge will use a new socket, LGA-1155, that is not compatible at all with existing motherboards and CPUs. The new motherboards feature Intel 6-series chipsets that support the new SATA600 interface on two of the 6 SATA ports (the other four are SATA300). Like the current Lynnfield processors, the CPU provides a PCI-Express 2.0 x16 connection that can be divided into two x8 connections for Crossfire/SLI, though like with Clarkdale motherboards based on the H6x-series chipsets that support the onboard graphics cannot divide this connection, so are limited to one graphics card. USB3.0 will not be supported by the chipsets, but Intel is considering making a third-party USB3.0 controller part of the reference motherboard design. Intel has upgraded the PCI-E 1.0 x4 "DMI" bus that connects the chipset to the CPU to PCI-E 2.0, doubling interface bandwidth to 2.0GB/sec in each direction. This should improve performance for SATA600 and USB3.0 controller chips on the motherboard, without requiring them to do bizarre things like cannibalize PCI-E 2.0 lanes from the graphics card to get acceptable performance.

Call me when the Intel reference boards can do SATA600 on all SATA ports and have native USB 3.0 without the need for a third party. In addition to that, let me know when SSDs that support SATA600 are over 500GB in size and are reasonably priced. Until then I'd rather just lean towards a C2D -> C2Q, more memory or a small, cheap SSD.

PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009



Spime Wrangler posted:

ell oh ell


I know, old, out of production etc etc but still

That Athlon XP 2100+, 512mb DDR, Radeon 8500 dream machine I put together during the fallout of that battle as my first MY COMPUTER will always have a special place in my heart.

man, computers so fast it was like living in the future...

Now look at us. Just look at us.

Look at us watching old people fall down stairs on YouTube via our Google Android phones.

PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009



I just assembled a system for someone with the Intel DP67BG board literally two days before reports came out about the problem. loving wonderful. Got the system up and running, Windows installed, etc. and the next day I get the Newegg e-mail.

PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009



One thing you have to watch out for if you're going to purchase a motherboard with an onboard Intel NIC is if it supports Jumbo Frames. A lot of Intel reference boards I've purchased have the onboard Intel NIC, but research/drivers have often revealed a lack of Jumbo Frame support. I had to purchase a PCI Express Intel NIC that had Jumbo Frame support because the DP45SG's onboard Gigabit NIC couldn't do it.

PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009



Cuntpunch posted:

So I'm poking around the UEFI BIOS on my MSI P67A-GD65, just looking at all the piles of settings and getting myself properly amused by the fact that I think I can play loving Tetris in my BIOS, but 90% of the actual options are completely undocumented with an obscure name.

The one I'm most curious about right now regards power management for the CPU itself, and I'm presented with APS(Active Phase Switching), Intel SVID, and Disabled.

It's currently set to SVID, and that's cool, but I find myself curious what the difference is. So I get to googling and all I actually have is a pile of overclocking forums saying to disable power management altogether so that the CPU constantly has all the power it could ever want.

I don't really feel like overclocking my 2600k on the stock heatsink, maybe once I upgrade soon, but for now I'm happy to let the thing underclock itself when I'm just typing posts on forums. So that leaves me still pondering what exactly is the difference between APS and SVID modes, and hell, should I switch?

This is one of the primary reasons why I stick with the Intel reference motherboards and not ones from Asus, MSI, etc. In my experience over the years, Intel motherboards by those companies over-clock extremely well and provide a huge amount of features. However, their documentation is poorly written or spotty at best. With every Intel reference board, everything is documented and explained in detail. It might not provide the same level of over-clocking functionality and provide a great set of features, but it's often stable as a rock.

PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009




Sounds like the perfect amount of time to save up more money after tax season for Ivy Bridge.

PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009



I'm definitely working on waiting for Ivy Bridge. The pushed back release deadline helps because it's a little bit after tax refund season which is good. I'm not exactly hurting at the moment, I'm on an e8400 with a Radeon HD 4890 so I'm thinking I should have no problem waiting until spring of next year to upgrade.

The confusing thing I can see is how some of these Sandy Bridge processors/motherboard chipsets have different features. There are a lot of pro's and con's like one processor/motherboard does virtualization well, but another does overclocking fairly well. I hope they don't try to pull that poo poo in Ivy Bridge.

PUBLIC TOILET fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Sep 12, 2011

PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009



necrobobsledder posted:

That's Intel's market segmentation tomfoolery that's messing with you. I decided I'd rather just get a Xeon instead of going down to an AMD machine that'd gulp up a fair bit more power and perform worse for most of my tasks throughout its life. The costs of going Xeon aren't all that terrible if you're looking for virtualization features as any bit of a concern - you should probably be on a Xeon already anyway. Then there's the HCL for VMware ESXi that bugged me and I'd want Intel NICs and server grade (haha, yeah...) SATA controllers which would raise the costs for me to get the system up to a functional level. I put together a fairly badass Xeon system with a GTX 560 and 128GB SSD (about 25% of the cost!) for about $1100 in the end and I'm fine with that cost, especially since I can write it off on my taxes anyway.

That's a pretty good thought, too. I was thinking about weighing the option of going with a Xeon but I was always under the impression they were more expensive. I haven't really taken a good look at their cost now compared to the regular desktop line. If the price/features are right, I could always go with Sandy Bridge once Ivy Bridge comes out. Maybe then Sandy Bridge Xeon stuff will be cheaper and have more on-board features.

PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009



So if Gigabyte has completely dropped the ball on their motherboards when it comes to the Vdroop issue, which manufacturer has worked around this issue the best? I'm probably not going to build a new system until Ivy Bridge arrives, but I've grown accustomed to Intel reference boards (I don't do much overclocking at all and I have a habit of keeping the vital components to one manufacturer). However, I'm willing to jump ship in that regard and consider Asus/Asrock or MSI. I've had ASUS boards before but that was a while back and the only thing I notice about them now is the high price. But I suppose that's where Asrock/MSI come in.

I don't even know how Intel handles the Vdroop issue with their own motherboards. Maybe they do a decent job?

PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009



Any idea on the possibility of Z77 Micro-ATX boards? I've been considering building the next machine with Micro-ATX because I barely use the extra peripherals, etc. that come with a full ATX.

PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009




I should have been more specific. Whatever the latest Ivy Bridge, Intel manufactured Micro-ATX board is. If it exists.

PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009



Allstone posted:

Just curious, but what reasons are there in particular for using an intel manufactured board?

I've been purchasing Intel-reference boards for a while now, generally because I feel as though they're a bit more stable for my use. Additionally, it's a "why not just get everything from the manufacturer" kind of thing. I don't really overclock and I don't typically use the massive amount of extras/features that other motherboard manufacturers include (why would I want built-in WiFi on a motherboard?). I also feel like Intel will stick to more standardized specifications when it comes to the design/construction of their motherboards. A lot of Intel applications that integrate with their motherboards also seem to have a better quality than competing products (i.e. ASUS' fan monitoring/voltage manipulation applications).

I suppose it's kind of hard to explain but my thought is if I'm going to go with Intel, I'd rather just choose a motherboard from the same company that's building the processor. It's one company making everything work together in a straight-forward fashion (Intel processor, Intel motherboard with an Intel chipset, Intel USB, Intel Gigabit LAN, etc.)

Maybe I'm just being geriatric and old timey with technology. I haven't had any bad luck with sticking to Intel for as much as possible, but if they're phasing out their motherboard line then I guess I have no choice.

PUBLIC TOILET fucked around with this message at 14:44 on Apr 21, 2012

PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009



calcio posted:

Why Z77 instead of a Z75. Are you going to use Intel SRT?

I'd like to get an Intel branded Z75 board myself especially to get an Intel nic instead of Realtek.

Essentially, yes. I had noticed that was a feature only in the Z77. I'm on an e8400 system now so Ivy Bridge is my next step. I would just like to have all the bells and whistles and I've been leaning towards using Intel SSDs again anyway. If I'm feeling good and want to spend money then perhaps I'll lean towards SRT & RAID-0 SSDs then rely on my WHS 2011 to make daily backups in case there's a big failure.

PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009



How much is known about Haswell at this point? I'm trying to skip over an Ivy Bridge-build and wait for Haswell.

PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009



movax posted:

What do you have right now? Personally, I'd only be thinking of upgrading if I didn't already have a quad-core. Nehalem quads still are good enough for games, and I think even the Core 2 Quads with a healthy overclock can handle some newer titles.

If I had a Q6600 or similar instead of a E6600, I'd probably still have it and would have upgraded to Haswell next year.

I have a Core 2 Duo e8400 now. I had looked at just swapping in a quad core Core 2 CPU but I think the prices are going up.

PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009



I don't know about you guys, but I'm hanging on to my Core 2 Duo system until Haswell arrives. PUSH IT TO THE LIMIT

PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009



Wouldn't Skylake fall under Intel's "tick" timeframe? Isn't it better to choose Haswell as that would fall under "tock"? Is Intel just talking out of its giant rear end when it uses this tick/tock poo poo?

PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009



Maybe Intel is betting on motherboard manufacturers to shift their business models elsewhere? Maybe strong arm those companies into purchasing pre-fabricated components directly from Intel to use in the devices they create? If that's the case then holyyyyyyy poo poo is that some anti-competitive, monopolistic maneuvering. That's also a pretty big "bet it all on red" kind of move that I can't see any company making. Then again, look at Microsoft & Windows 8.

PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009



movax posted:

The -K versions have always lacked Vt-d as well, which sucks and is pure market segmentation as well. At least you still get Vt-x on them, but I think Microsoft would get very annoyed if they started segmenting that away.

In other news, the 2600K and its friends are getting discontinued in March (not that this wasn't expected just more of a FYI), and model numbers for Haswell chips were leaked, no real surprises there either.

4670K will take over as recommended CPU for the most part, with the 4770K coming in at the top for now. New graphics core as well, so Haswell laptops that don't sport a discrete GPU (ThinkPad T440 ) are looking better and better.

With regards to Haswell, I've thought about going the route of building the next system with a greater emphasis on virtualization. However, I would like a mix of gaming/virtualization. Does it make sense to stick to the non-K CPUs to get all of the virtualization features? Does VMWare Workstation even utilize all of them?

PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009



Navaash posted:

I haven't seen anyone discuss this yet here:

Intel to exit the desktop motherboard business

Honestly, this blows. Intel boards have always been rock-solid reliable for me*, and I just built my brother a new computer with one. They (usually) had motherboards with the most sensical/least retarded distribution of PCIe ports on the board. Also, they tended to be first to kick legacy poo poo off of their boards (though PS/2 seems to be hanging on a while longer, depending on the board). Most importantly (to me), it enabled access to an Intel network interface without too significant a price premium. </anecdote>

* Okay, my DG965WH has an eccentric issue in that the computer will regularly BSOD in Windows XP if it's using onboard video and there's no card in the PCI-E x16 slot, even if idle, but that's such an edge case that's irrelevant to me since Intel onboard video before HD3000 sucks anyway

drat it. It's not really a surprise, though. Which manufacturer is the closest to making motherboards like Intel's? (with regards to decent on-board components, good layout and configuration of headers/jumpers, informative manual, etc.)

PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009



WhyteRyce posted:

Looks like I'm only buying Asus now since now one else seems to use the onboard Intel GBE controller

Ahhh ha! If that's true then I suppose I'm going ASUS. I need Gigabit LAN and I'd rather not have to use a new NIC.

PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009



Factory Factory posted:

MSI's GD- series boards also use the Intel NIC, like the Z77A-GD55.

Ugh. I'm pretty sure this particular board uses the onboard Intel NIC that caused me to have to purchase an actual NIC. Because of the way my file server works, in order to obtain best possible network file transfer speeds, I have to adjust a specific setting on all NICs. I need the ability to adjust the Jumbo Packet setting to 4088 Bytes. Last time I tried that with an onboard Intel NIC, it didn't give the option to adjust the value.

PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009



Is there a comparison out yet that shows the differences between the Haswell consumer processors and the Haswell Xeons? I know it's far away but I wasn't sure if they released any information on that.

PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009



Would there be a benefit to building a Haswell Xeon system as a primary desktop machine over a Haswell i7 one? Aside from the obvious virtualization capabilities.

PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009



cstine posted:

Actually, that raises a question - something like a Xeon E3-1230 isn't particularly more expensive than the similar Ivy Bridge chip - are the Xeons going to stay socketed, regardless of what Intel does with the 'consumer' line, or is that something that hasn't been discussed at all?

Good question, I'd like to know as well. I'm interested in building a Haswell system but I'm leaning towards Xeon and it would be nice if future revisions are socketed.

PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009



necrobobsledder posted:

From what I've read, the follow-up to Haswell (Broadwell) will be BGA-only and be directly sent to OEMs and so those building aftermarket like most of us in SH/SC do for our home systems will need to wait until Skylake to whitebox. Because this is all a matter of forcing buyers to go directly from the OEM to pair CPU and motherboards (streamlining for costs and to trim logistics expenses while letting Intel pursue their mobile strategy) I think that they'll mark up Xeons even more with Broadwell that are still socketed or we'll all be forced into buying expensive marked-up Dell, HP, etc. servers instead of whiteboxing our own. There's evidence Intel is trying to squeeze a bit more life out of socketed E3s at least via more market segmentation AKA abusing market position (the Haswell E3 Xeon's LGA1150 is not compatible with Z87 LGA1150 sockets) so we may see something else to ruin our day as prosumers. The E3 is a final place where Intel could really put the screws on those of us with professional needs but on non-Fortune 500 budgets and since I don't think AMD will exactly step up to the task (they got rid of ECC support on newer CPUs unless they're Opterons) there's hardly a choice now without losing ECC on buttloads of RAM.

My current workstation / server is an E3-1230 Sandy Bridge system I built in 2011 and it's remarkable how well it's held up through Ivy Bridge. Maxed out at 32GB of RAM and while the clockspeed gets halved as a result (fuckin' UDIMMs), it really doesn't matter for most people's jobs until you start to get into supercomputing sort of workloads (there's a paper some guy running a big cluster with COTS hardware wrote where they actually did notice a substantial improvement in their job throughput with higher clocked RAM). I'm going to anticipate that Haswell will be the last E3 I can whitebox for a Xeon system though and with Intel stopping at 32GB of UDIMMs (not trying to push for DDR4 UDIMMs of 16GB+) for Haswell, they've identified and put their foot down on the memory boundary between workstation needs and "you should just run it on a server." It'll be peculiar to shove my current Xeon into a gaming setup in another year or so when it'll still do great on lots of titles, it's kind of amazing to think that I could have a good chance of using a CPU for gaming for 3 years without complaint as opposed to 10 years ago.


So uh... how about them M.2 slots in those Z87 motherboards? (Nevermind that there's no M.2 SSDs available still)

Good information. So then what will be the options available for someone who wants to build a Xeon-based workstation when Haswell arrives? I thought Haswell was using a new socket so then they would need a refresh of the Xeons? I'm way behind on the latest news. It seems as though price/performance limits us to E3's (unless you want to drop a lot more on an E5.)

PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009



Any word on Haswell Xeons yet?

PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009



Is there currently still a problem with the first-gen Haswell motherboards coming out that Intel has made manufacturers sign a waiver for? Something to do with USB 3.0, correct?

PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009



I'm guessing Haswell-E will be when Intel fixes their USB 3.0 issues. So that comes out Q3 of this year? or Q4?

PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009



I know I don't have to let this affect my buying decision. What does affect my buying decision though is a product that the manufacturer has admitted as having a problem on launch that will eventually be corrected in future revisions. Buy a product with a known manufacturer-defect, or wait until a defect-free product arrives.

PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009



The more I read about Haswell-E for 2014, the more I want to wait even further for it.

PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009



If there was enough research advancement, couldn't you feasibly use graphene to make processor dies even smaller?

PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009



Is it safe to say that if I were to build a new machine with Xeon, there won't be any new Xeon CPUs until next year? Everything I've heard seems to indicate that new Xeons won't be out until next year and even then they will technically be Ivy Bridge Xeons and not Haswell ones.

PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009



So it would seem safe to assume that we won't see anything earth-shattering (if that) from Intel until the second half of 2014. Until then, Intel will chug along with a couple refreshes. Sounds like I'd be safe to purchase something in the near future as the next option would be to wait until the second half of 2014 which seems pretty far away. Even then it would be an initial release and that's if Intel remains on schedule.

Sounds like my best bet for building a Xeon machine is to wait until after the Ivy Bridge-E refresh in September? I don't think these slides mention anything about Xeon.

PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009



So it sounds like the next series of Xeons will mean the end of a budget-priced Xeon processor?

PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009



I'm looking at completing a new system build, but I'm hesitant to purchase the Xeon E3-1270v6 I've been eyeing up. Would I be better off waiting to see if a Spectre/Meltdown-corrected refresh CPU comes out?

PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009



Looks like they're starting to incorporate the Spectre-fixed BIOS' within Windows Update now:

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...icrocode-fixes/
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...crocode-updates

That's convenient, even if it is a really slow roll-out.

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PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009



Well, I can confirm that a BIOS update from Intel is available that patches the Xeon E3-1270v6 and it works fine. Confirmed the vulnerabilities are patched via the Microsoft PowerShell script that checks the CPU. I have yet to notice a performance degradation.

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