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CFox
Nov 9, 2005
Probably a dumb question but I ordered the ASUS P8P67 and it comes with two 6.0 SATA ports and two Marvell 6.0 SATA ports. Since I'm only going to be using 3 hard drives I can just use the 6.0 ports and be fine correct? Also what's the deal with Marvell ports and are they better than the regular ones?

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CFox
Nov 9, 2005

Instant Sunrise posted:

My concern isn't so much the speed of it as it is continuing to being able to find replacement / compatible parts for a 4 year old platform or games having a hardcoded check for a CPU id string and not letting it run on a 2XXX series CPU.

Why the worry about a game locking out a CPU like that? The only thing that has happened is that games have locked out based on the number of (virtual) cores the processor has and that's just because those game devs are lazy. I say if it ain't broke don't worry about and just upgrade when/if you actually need to.

CFox
Nov 9, 2005
The XTU service is supposed to run on startup automatically but I read that sometimes wouldn't so I setup a scheduled task on my laptop to run the service on login if it wasn't already running. You can google around and find out the steps for that but it's pretty straightforward.

CFox
Nov 9, 2005
6C/12T + a bigger Vega iGPU on there and you've got your 300 watts.

CFox
Nov 9, 2005
No -.150 is a common limit when undervolting that generation CPU. Dude is way off on a -.9 undervolt being possible.

Also I love it but deadfire uses way more power than it has any right to. Just turn off all graphics options and even turn down the frame rate from 60 if that isn't enough. Hopefully they can optimize things at some point.

CFox
Nov 9, 2005

Furism posted:

Ok I'm glad to know that this limit is correct. Maybe the other poster meant -.09?

And I completely agree on Deadfire. I blame the Unity engine. Going low on all the settings the laptop still overheats. I think it's the GPU that causes too much heat and coupled to the Xeon's own heat there's just not enough cooling. Since I don't really need the Xeon to play I'd rather undervolt that. Somebody in the Deadfire thread said it fixed it that way. I'll give it a go soon.

You can also try turning off the intel turbo boost, it won't really effect the performance in this game at least. If you check out point 2.4 here: http://www.geeks3d.com/20170213/how-to-disable-intel-turbo-boost-technology-on-a-notebook/#_22 you'll find a .reg file you can run to add the option to turn it off and on in power management. I've been using it for awhile and it works just fine.

CFox
Nov 9, 2005
It's only a matter of time, the writing is on the wall. We're going to keep having more and more of these exploits coming out. I'm sure Apple will be next to disable HT by default and then Microsoft will follow suit just to keep from being seen as the (even more) insecure OS.

CFox
Nov 9, 2005
You're probably more limited by the ability to transfer heat to the cooler than the coolers ability to disperse the heat.

CFox
Nov 9, 2005

Ok Comboomer posted:

I’m in the market for a refurbished office PC to turn into a Linux/python learning environment, general use desktop/word processor, and ideally to one day slap a cheap GPU into for the purposes of playing some steam games (Battletech, Stellaris, maybe NMS or Witcher, possibly the occasional shooter like Halo) at “budget but solid” levels on the 22” 1080p display I have arriving on Friday.

Before the pandemic/during the first couple of weeks you could easily get something like an Optiplex minitower with a 4th gen i7 in it for $150-200. I’ve seen 4770s and 4970s on offer.

Since then, the i7 minitowers have all dried up and the few that can be had have drifted north of $250 which is frankly more than I want to spend, given that I often need to add stuff like ram, SSD, gpu...and wanna keep the whole thing as cheap (but as good value-for-money wise) as possible. i5 towers on the other hand, have risen to occupy the ~$150-200 price point.

As far as my research shows me, the biggest difference is that the i7s have 8 available threads while the i5s have 4. I’d like to max out this computer’s potential but stay within reason (let’s say I get 1-2 years out of it). How much am I screwing myself over by going with an i5, say a 4750 or 4950, over an i7? What if I wanna put a 1060 in it in a month for some ~pc gaming~?

Generally none of those office PCs have the power supply to handle a 1060, you need something that just needs power from the PCI slot. I think that's maybe certain models of the 1050ti at this point? Someone else probably knows for sure.

I think you'd get a much better deal if you can wait few months. I get the feeling that a LOT of companies are going to be ditching their desktops and going with laptops for everyone the first chance they get and when that happens the refurbished market you're looking at will bottom out.

CFox
Nov 9, 2005

repiv posted:

I found Anandtech's comparisons and there's a pretty obvious hole in them - they use the default, lowest-common-denominator compiler target for their SPEC builds which means it only uses ancient SSE2 instructions, no AVX, no AVX512, not even SSE4.

They use those results to draw the comparison that the A13 outperforms a Xeon 8176 in single threaded performance but the gigantic SIMD units on the Xeon are barely being utilized.

Show me the A13 keeping up with Skylake in a heavily optimized SIMD workload and I'll be more impressed :v:

That's interesting, this is the first time I've heard about this in all of the A13 vs Desktop chips comparison. What are some common desktop applications that really take advantage of AVX/SSE4? I could see a future where all consumer devices run ARM while servers were still on x86 but maybe I'm missing something big (besides (legacy) application support for ARM of course) where still keeping x86 makes more sense for desktop/laptop.

CFox
Nov 9, 2005
Isn't that just a (credible) rumor at this point?

CFox
Nov 9, 2005
There won’t be a switchover in 2-3 years but there will be a strong push on the windows side. Microsoft would absolutely love to ditch all the legacy cruft that’s slowing them down and OEMs would love to buy cheaper and simpler SOCs and lower their costs. I think apple is going to come out strong with good performance and excellent battery life and just make their offerings straight up better than things on the windows side, as long as you’re not trying to game on them or need some software that Mac doesn’t have.

CFox
Nov 9, 2005

Some Goon posted:

The legacy cruft is Window's main advantage over any potential competitors, at least in the highly lucrative business space.

It is but even if it were dropped tomorrow businesses aren’t going to switch to macs or chrome books or linux. Windows would still be the default if only for AD and everything around that. Microsoft wants you to ditch desktop apps and use azure for everything anyways.

CFox
Nov 9, 2005
Going dual channel on the RAM isn't going to make that big a difference. The intel 620 is more or less a rebrand of the intel 520 iirc and that came out in 2015. I don't think intel gpus actually advanced any until last year maybe?

CFox
Nov 9, 2005
Guys the laptop I game on just has a 620 with dual channel ram. All I’m saying is realistically you don’t gain a whole lot. Like diablo 3 isn’t going to jump up to 1080 60fps here. You just need to temper expectations here.

CFox
Nov 9, 2005
ARM is a better instruction set if only because it’s not locked behind 2 drat companies. Intel and AMD can always pivot to making ARM chips, you can’t say the same for making x86.

CFox
Nov 9, 2005

DrDork posted:

It's not, but there are very legitimate questions about how high it'll be able to clock--it's pretty damned good for the laptop power envelope it's designed for (and by semi-extension, servers), but how much of that translates over to desktop power envelopes remains to be seen. 2021 will be an interesting year for CPUs, if nothing else.

I mean in benchmarks isn't already beating everything with the exception where it's competing against double the cores? No need to jack up the clockspeed when they can just slap on more performance cores and win that way.

CFox
Nov 9, 2005
Why on earth are there so many small cores? I figured they'd set an upper limit of 4 on the things since they'll mainly be used for background processes and the like.

CFox
Nov 9, 2005
I’ll be impressed when they can clone the MacBook Air. Where’s my fanless speedy laptop intel/amd?

CFox
Nov 9, 2005
I'll go against the grain a bit and say I'm actually surprised how well Windows and Edge works on low end hardware. I got my kids a couple of laptops to do their schoolwork on, they have 4gb of ram and a Pentium Silver N5030. It's a quad core 1.1 base 3.1 boost in a fanless laptop. This thing handles the web without a hitch including youtube and even plays Stardew Valley, Untitled Goose Game, and A Short Hike without any slowdowns. Not like those are demanding games or anything but for what I consider bottom of the barrel specs I'm nothing but impressed. I will add the caveat that the laptops are running LTSC which is based on 1809 and not whatever the current version of Windows is, I was concerned about ram usage more than anything with that choice. Plus I'm not a fan of being Microsofts beta tester for updates, I do enough of that doing QA at work, but that's a whole different conversation.

I think the problem with corporate laptops is all of the absurd security programs they throw on there. I think mine has 3 different ones running at all times. You need all of the power you can get just to compensate for that nonsense.

CFox
Nov 9, 2005

shrike82 posted:

Seems like a Chromebook would be better if you're going that low end and if it's for school work

Well they were Christmas presents so I wanted something that could also play some low end games so they’d be excited about it. Mainly stardew since they loved playing it on my laptop. Besides that I’m not familiar at all with chrome books and don’t really feel like learning them at this point. Long term I think it’s a good idea they experience and get used to working with windows since it’s likely they’ll be using it for work when they get older, I feel like chrome books are a dead end in that respect.

CFox
Nov 9, 2005
Hah, guess I'm not the only one reading along that decided to pick one up. Got mine installed about an hour ago and am doing my best to fill it up with games. Coming from a 512gb it's so nice not to have to worry about running out of space.

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CFox
Nov 9, 2005
I thing Agile is fine it’s just when you get into dumb things like “Roadmaps” and “Deadlines” that everything falls apart.

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