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Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

From my point of view, the Jedi are evil. But what really is... evil?

cant cook creole bream posted:

The Grand Hotel works fine in uncountable infinities.
This thing is not quite the same as the grand hotel, since you actually want to map two different points onto the same one, while still making the mapping reversible.

If you have countable infinitives, Loup from universe n (Loup_n) stole the two Annies from universes 2n and 2n+1. This works if n is a natural number. L_1 steals A_2 and A_3, L_2 steals A_4 and A_5... Basically, the tail of Annieless universes grows twice as fast as the ones with a fresh set of two.
For real numbers in uncountable universes, this exact argument breaks apart.
If you set n=1 , L_1 would like to steal A_2 and A_3. But L_(0.5) already took A_2.

I am not sure if you can construct a way to avoid that. It doesn't feel possible.


That's what's irritating Kat. She can't fathom the idea that the number of universes is just countable. This would imply that every quantum collapse has to have a countable set of outcomes. I.e. throwing a coin is alright and splits the universe into two parallel universes. But if you construct a random number generator which can give out every possible real number between 0 and 1, the multiverse just breaks apart. And Kat really needed to built that for her new AI-algorithms.

Looks like Loup knows more about countable infinities than you do!

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cant cook creole bream
Aug 15, 2011
I think Fahrenheit is better for weather

A big flaming stink posted:

seems like the prime powers method works well here:

Nah, this also only works for countable numbers. This argument breaks apart for real numbers since there are numbers x and y, such that 3^x = 5^y. In that case you would need to put them into the same room. I.e. steal the same Annie.
Specifically, that happens on the line y = x*log(3)/log(5).

Bongo Bill posted:

Looks like Loup knows more about countable infinities than you do!

Can't argue with that. Maybe Loup just knows how to count "uncountable" infinities.

A big flaming stink
Apr 26, 2010


cant cook creole bream posted:

Nah, this also only works for countable numbers. This argument breaks apart for real numbers since there are numbers x and y, such that 3^x = 5^y. In that case you would need to put them into the same room. I.e. steal the same Annie.
Specifically, that happens on the line y = x*log(3)/log(5).


Can't argue with that. Maybe Loup just knows how to count "uncountable" infinities.

oh, right, and you can't just do "pretend each real number is an integer and assign them that way" since the Real set also includes non-terminating non-repeating numbers as well

Cavelcade
Dec 9, 2015

I'm actually a boy!




Couldn't you just steal them from the subset of the Reals that corresponds to the integers? You don't need to steal from every universe.

Uthor
Jul 9, 2006

Gummy Bear Heaven ... It's where I go when the world is too mean.

rannum posted:

GC Tier list (work in progress):
Annie (w/ Lasers)


Annie (no lasers)
Paz




Kat

I'm glad that their conversation has finally progressed to the eventual endpoint of all comic discussions: Can X beat up Y?

Robo-Slap
Jun 5, 2011


Cavelcade posted:

Couldn't you just steal them from the subset of the Reals that corresponds to the integers? You don't need to steal from every universe.

You do. Otherwise universes corresponding to nonrepeating nonterminating numbers will have 3 Annies.

I bet the Loups in those universes would be very ... irrational

Cavelcade
Dec 9, 2015

I'm actually a boy!




Robo-Slap posted:

You do. Otherwise universes corresponding to nonrepeating nonterminating numbers will have 3 Annies.

I bet the Loups in those universes would be very ... irrational

I guess the point I'm making is that if there are infinite universes, why would all of them have a Loup? So you don't need to steal from every universe.

Or an Annie for that matter.

And if that's the case, to don't need to steal from the non-Loup ones. You just need an infinite number of Annie's. If only the integer universes steal from each other, it's not a problem?

In concision, Kat is right.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012

I came here to laugh at you





Cavelcade posted:

I guess the point I'm making is that if there are infinite universes, why would all of them have a Loup? So you don't need to steal from every universe.

Or an Annie for that matter.

And if that's the case, to don't need to steal from the non-Loup ones. You just need an infinite number of Annie's. If only the integer universes steal from each other, it's not a problem?

In concision, Kat is right.

Not quite.... there's a subset of countably infinite universes that Coyote never gave his strength to Ysengrin in... but there's also a subset of countably infinite universes where Loup formed. Within that, you have a countably infinite subset where Loup stole an Annie.

We are in that last subset.

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



Cavelcade posted:

I guess the point I'm making is that if there are infinite universes, why would all of them have a Loup? So you don't need to steal from every universe.

Or an Annie for that matter.

And if that's the case, to don't need to steal from the non-Loup ones. You just need an infinite number of Annie's. If only the integer universes steal from each other, it's not a problem?

In concision, Kat is right.

We have no evidence that the infinite universes are even slightly different from one another.

YaketySass
Jan 15, 2019

Blind Idiot Dog


For every universe without a Loup, there's another one with two of them.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.


If Loup did not exist we would have had to create him.

A Sometimes Food
Dec 8, 2010

Relinquish your foolish
delusions of control.





Kat this is starting to sound an awful like the start of a speech that ends with you declaring some jrpg villain goal.

The 7th Guest
Dec 17, 2003



A Sometimes Food posted:

Kat this is starting to sound an awful like the start of a speech that ends with you declaring some jrpg villain goal.
or it's Higurashi and she's going to stab one of them and be like "there! now there's no contradiction!! only one annie again!!"

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012

I came here to laugh at you





A Sometimes Food posted:

Kat this is starting to sound an awful like the start of a speech that ends with you declaring some jrpg villain goal.

The only question is whether the boot drops Wednesday or Friday now.

Regy Rusty
Apr 26, 2010



Grimey Drawer

A Sometimes Food posted:

Kat this is starting to sound an awful like the start of a speech that ends with you declaring some jrpg villain goal.

I'll always remember our friendship

dragon enthusiast
Jan 1, 2010


"right now the only thing missing to finish my experiments... is a live specimen" *pulls out arrow from pants*

FronzelNeekburm
Jun 1, 2001

STOP, MORTTIME


Outrageous Lumpwad

The 7th Guest posted:

or it's Higurashi and she's going to stab one of them and be like "there! now there's no contradiction!! only one annie again!!"

"I got a great idea from The Fly!"

Scaramouche
Mar 26, 2001

SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Lotta jarring perspective changes in this comic about changing perspectives, just sayin.

Wittgen
Oct 13, 2012

We have decided to decline your offer of a butt kicking.


Scaramouche posted:

Lotta jarring perspective changes in this comic about changing perspectives, just sayin.

It reminds me of when Annie learned that her mom died because she was born. Really feels like Kat is losing it.

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

Nobody Cares




Tortured By Flan

Kat seems to have gone and done that very human thing where a huge deal is made out of nothing.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



Warmachine posted:

The only question is whether the boot drops Wednesday or Friday now.

More importantly, which JRPG Villain theme is going to start playing in the background

Kikas
Oct 30, 2012

EAT THE FISH!
EAT THE BERRIES!
TO THE CAVE!
HIBERNATE


AGDQ 2018 Awful Block Survivor



rannum posted:

More importantly, which JRPG Villain theme is going to start playing in the background

SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE

LIQUIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIID

A Sometimes Food
Dec 8, 2010

Relinquish your foolish
delusions of control.





Damnit Kat you better not hurt them.

A big flaming stink
Apr 26, 2010


yep kat is deffo about to kill one or both of them

cant cook creole bream
Aug 15, 2011
I think Fahrenheit is better for weather

I really do like that the Annies have a different style with their make up and their choice of clothing. It would be really annoying if you couldn't keep them apart.

Dr Subterfuge
Aug 31, 2005


The most rash thing I can see Kat doing is banishing them both from this timeline, but I doubt she has the tech, so who knows what's about to happen.

cant cook creole bream posted:

I really do like that the Annies have a different style with their make up and their choice of clothing. It would be really annoying if you couldn't keep them apart.

It reads like they watch each other and feel a need to differentiate, which honestly makes a lot of sense.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Keep on keeping on.


I feel like I'm getting a different read on this conversation than the rest of the thread. To me it just seems like Kat is struggling with this whole situation and is tired of suppressing it, and Annie and Annie operating in total synthesis to tell her how much they care about her is the opposite of what she wanted to hear. Every time they both share the same thought with her like this it reinforces that it is real, it is possible, and it's totally inexplicable right now and possibly will be forever.

CJacobs fucked around with this message at 12:30 on May 20, 2020

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



CJacobs posted:

I feel like I'm getting a different read on this conversation than the rest of the thread. To me it just seems like Kat is struggling with this whole situation and is tired of suppressing it, and Annie and Annie operating in total synthesis to tell her how much they care about her is the opposite of what she wanted to hear. Every time they both share the same thought with her like this it reinforces that it is real, it is possible, and it's totally inexplicable right now and possibly will be forever.

Yeah this is my read too. Up until know I don't think Kat ever really believed all of the stuff Coyote did, assuming Annie even told her the details. Everything that Coyote did that made it to the Court - like his tooth, or knocking over a building - is normal, laws-of-physics stuff; the fact that he is an actual literal god isn't something she ever had to confront. Her first interactions with Shadow involved studying him to see how he worked. She's met ghosts and psychopomps but all that meant is that souls exist, and probably have material properties. She's surrounded by weirdness, but nothing so weird that you can't reasonably believe there's laws underpinning it.
Until suddenly she has two best friends. Now she has to reconcile her physicalist worldview with the fact that a god who can just ignore inconvenient physical laws lives down the road. All of the stories she's heard about Coyote's bizarre incorporeality are no longer just legends and colourful language, they're actual things that happened that have no possible physical explanation.

It's not about the problem of having multiple Annies, it's the problem of Loup - and Coyote and any of the others - existing.

Synthbuttrange
May 6, 2007

I feel the pressure,
under more scrutiny
And what I do,
act more stupidly




Kat's conveniently blotted out the fact that Annie's fingerprints are on the moon from her memory

dragon enthusiast
Jan 1, 2010


what happened to annies noses

LashLightning
Feb 20, 2010

You know you didn't have to go post that, right?

But it's fine, I guess...


You just keep being you!


Synthbuttrange posted:

Kat's conveniently blotted out the fact that Annie's fingerprints are on the moon from her memory

That's just some face-on-mars nonsense.

Or someone with a stick and plenty of time, like crop circles but writ large. And on the surface of the moon.

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



Synthbuttrange posted:

Kat's conveniently blotted out the fact that Annie's fingerprints are on the moon from her memory

That was solar winds, obviously!


I just noticed Matt gave Chang'e his jacket in that chapter. Cute.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



I wonder what Robot, who is definitely listening in since he's right near by, is going to take from this whole situation

catapede
Jul 1, 2018

Eatin' fish leaves
Gettin' strong

CJacobs posted:

I feel like I'm getting a different read on this conversation than the rest of the thread. To me it just seems like Kat is struggling with this whole situation and is tired of suppressing it, and Annie and Annie operating in total synthesis to tell her how much they care about her is the opposite of what she wanted to hear. Every time they both share the same thought with her like this it reinforces that it is real, it is possible, and it's totally inexplicable right now and possibly will be forever.

Also my read on it. I imagine their response to what Kat said is extremely overwhelming in these circumstances. The problem is there are two Annies, and now both these Annies are literally surrounding Kat telling her how great she is while that is far from Kat's issue. Annie: continuing to not "get it" socially.

Classon Ave. Robot
Oct 7, 2019



I thought she was crying about the fact that one of the Annies was taken from another timeline and will have to either be banished from this world or leave the other timeline with a very sad Kat who's friend got killed at age 17 as far as she knows.

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



catapede posted:

Also my read on it. I imagine their response to what Kat said is extremely overwhelming in these circumstances. The problem is there are two Annies, and now both these Annies are literally surrounding Kat telling her how great she is while that is far from Kat's issue. Annie: continuing to not "get it" socially.

It's also really got to sting when, while you're doubting your entire belief system, your most trusted friend insists on how important and valuable your wisdom and insight are.

maltesh
May 20, 2004

TG: brought my phone and i also took my awesome katana with me in case things get too hot to handle
TG: and they always do


Classon Ave. Robot posted:

I thought she was crying about the fact that one of the Annies was taken from another timeline and will have to either be banished from this world or leave the other timeline with a very sad Kat who's friend got killed at age 17 as far as she knows.

The information that we currently have is that neither Annie is from this timeline. What happened to this timeline's Annie is unknown.

maltesh fucked around with this message at 11:59 on May 21, 2020

FronzelNeekburm
Jun 1, 2001

STOP, MORTTIME


Outrageous Lumpwad

Antimony Prime will return to light their darkest hour.

Kennel
May 1, 2008

BAWWW-UNH!


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Begemot
Oct 14, 2012

Hm...



Hell yeah I love Antato and Katginald

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