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I'm honestly not fond of the way the comic frames the Paz thing, because honestly... Paz thinking Annie is bad for Kat, or a bad friend, is not that hard to understand! Jealousy may compound it but Annie has not been the greatest friend to Kat around the 'going to the forest' thing, or more generally leaning a ton on Kat. Kat has kind of a martyr thing going on for Annie, and while that's not Annie's fault, Paz getting that impression wouldn't help. This isn't to say Annie deserves Paz' enmity, just that Paz isn't acting totally irrationally, this is the sort of thing that happens. But since we very much inhabit Annie Perspective, Paz is cast into a worse light.
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Apr 2, 2021 05:17
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Paz always had a dark side. Remember when she drowned that puppy, when nobody else was around?
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Apr 2, 2021 06:55
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Joe Slowboat posted:I'm honestly not fond of the way the comic frames the Paz thing, because honestly... Paz thinking Annie is bad for Kat, or a bad friend, is not that hard to understand! Jealousy may compound it but Annie has not been the greatest friend to Kat around the 'going to the forest' thing, or more generally leaning a ton on Kat. Kat has kind of a martyr thing going on for Annie, and while that's not Annie's fault, Paz getting that impression wouldn't help. And yet, the comic recently has outright stated that Annie is probably responsible for helping Kat develop into the good person Paz became enamored with in the first place. On the subject of the comic, is this the "I'm sorry I did a bad thing" or "I'm sorry I got caught doing a bad thing"?
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Apr 2, 2021 08:05
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I think it's "I know I did a bad thing but I don't know to who or how should I apologize so I just feel bad", which is a lot of teenage drama.
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Apr 2, 2021 08:25
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Strawberry Pyramid posted:And yet, the comic recently has outright stated that Annie is probably responsible for helping Kat develop into the good person Paz became enamored with in the first place. IF: Annie dies falling off the bridge: Then: She never leaves her fingerprint on the moon > Chang'e never visits the Court > Matt never becomes enamoured with her > Awkward conversation with Kat never happens > Neither Paz nor Kat have cause to doubt their sexualities, at least for a while. Paz outright says she's feeling bad about the handling of the confrontation, but I don't think for a second she's feeling bad about seeking it out, just how it went. Her opinion of Annie is still somewhere below sea level.
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Apr 2, 2021 08:33
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I thought paz was Portuguese
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Apr 2, 2021 08:41
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I don't mean Paz is a saint, nor that she's right about Annie - just that her perspective is pretty understandable. Kat and Annie's friendship has been tumultuous, and Annie is not good at communicating what is going on with her at the best of times.
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Apr 2, 2021 08:45
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Strawberry Pyramid posted:On the subject of the comic, is this the "I'm sorry I did a bad thing" or "I'm sorry I got caught doing a bad thing"? I think she's sorry she did it, though I'm sure that'll be gone into later. She saw Kat getting absorbed in the situation to possibly destructive ends and tried to fix it by bullying Annie and Annie.
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Apr 2, 2021 08:45
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Splicer posted:I thought paz was Portuguese
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Apr 2, 2021 08:51
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Splicer posted:I thought paz was Portuguese She's from Galicia. It's part of Spain, but the local language is something between Spanish and Portuguese. efb
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Apr 2, 2021 08:51
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Yknow the village where RE4 takes place? Paz is from just down the road near the coast where the buildings are more hilly but there's still zombies edit: Yknow the castle from DMC? Paz was created by Mundus to lure Kat down the
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Apr 2, 2021 21:49
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I have to hand it to Tom with regards to drawing Jones. I feel like it must be difficult to get Jones to always have that exact same expression in every panel she's in. Like obviously CAD had the problem of the characters always having that face, but that was just incompetence, I feel like it must be hard to draw Jones with that same expression and make it look almost 100% consistent across the whole comic, when you're drawing all the other characters in various ways. I can really think of only one panel where it looks like he slipped a bit with her eyebrows, during The Stone when it shows the flashback of her and Elgamore and she tries to comfort him.
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Apr 2, 2021 23:10
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I'm not liking how every character is "new Annie is so awesome!" We're getting total "tell, don't show". Also, it seems like the two Annies were being seen increasingly as separate, unique people. You'd think someone might be a little bit bummed about their other friend vanishing (I know they combined, but it seemed they were becoming more identical twins than two parts of a whole).
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Apr 5, 2021 13:02
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Do you mean you don't like it because you think it's poor storytelling or do you mean you do like the storytelling and you're saying "I don't like where this is going  "I'm in the latter camp.
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Apr 5, 2021 13:07
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I think how almost word-for-word identical the consensus is about annie and tony is supposed to be somewhat disturbing
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Apr 5, 2021 13:16
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Bonster posted:I'm not liking how every character is "new Annie is so awesome!" We're getting total "tell, don't show". Not really, no. That applies to statements the audience knows are authorially correct. "Characters saying stuff about another character" is being shown what they think, not necessarily told what's the actual case. If a narrator popped up to say all the same things, that would be telling and not showing. It's highly relevant how uncomfortable Annie looked when asked about her mental state, I think we are being shown that everyone thinks Annie is fine but that this is just an effective pretense. GunnerJ fucked around with this message at 13:22 on Apr 5, 2021 |
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Apr 5, 2021 13:20
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CYBEReris posted:I think how almost word-for-word identical the consensus is about annie and tony is supposed to be somewhat disturbing Jones' stonefaced non-reaction to all this testimony also gives a very big "we'll see about that" vibe to the whole thing, even though that's just how her face is.
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Apr 5, 2021 13:22
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I think Zimmy has Zimmy'd everything and Jones is unaffected because Jones and she's noticed something is off Depicted: Jones vs all this nonsense https://www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=839 e: Or this is all in Annies' heads and Jones represents her somethings not right here feelings. Or both! Splicer fucked around with this message at 13:32 on Apr 5, 2021 |
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Apr 5, 2021 13:29
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Splicer posted:I think Zimmy has Zimmy'd everything and Jones is unaffected because Jones and she's noticed something is off This seems clear as of this page imo. Zimmy did her Zimmy-ing without consulting anyone about it first and only Renard was 'inside' when it happened. edit: Perhaps she's seeking Tony not because he treats Antimony differently after her "recombining", but because he is the only one who WOULDN'T be treating Annie differently as he already both paid attention to and disregarded her at the same time, technically! Tony's like the perfect litmus test for "is the whole world screwed up in a metaphysical sense right now" as it turns out! CJacobs fucked around with this message at 14:30 on Apr 5, 2021 |
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Apr 5, 2021 14:24
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Bonster posted:I'm not liking how every character is "new Annie is so awesome!" We're getting total "tell, don't show".
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Apr 5, 2021 14:28
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Splicer posted:e: Or this is all in Annies' heads and Jones represents her somethings not right here feelings. Or both! I like this idea... All these characters keep just bringing up her dad treating the Annies differently, almost unprompted, don't they?
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Apr 5, 2021 14:30
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Note also that Jones said to Annie "people wonder about your mental state" when only Parley really spoke about that and it was with the same "oh yeah I'm sure she's totally fine but her DA' now that guy's a piece of work" as everyone else
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Apr 5, 2021 14:39
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CJacobs posted:Note also that Jones said to Annie "people wonder about your mental state" when only Parley really spoke about that and it was with the same "oh yeah I'm sure she's totally fine but her DA' now that guy's a piece of work" as everyone else Maybe the 'people' Jones mentioned is Tony, and he is the only one actually worried.
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Apr 5, 2021 14:45
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I'll believe Tony has worried about something other than Surma when I see it Edit: if you wanted to go full-on tinfoil-hat you could see this chapter as a reflection of the previous one. Antimony's old chums spitting disgruntled hearsay at Tony like the elf kids chasing down Zimmy saying she was spider climbing walls n poo poo (not that I doubt it)... Hell, the chapter even started with Annie and Renard leaving home, turning a corner and walking face first into someone again. Just that Kat is here instead of another Annie. CJacobs fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Apr 5, 2021 |
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Apr 5, 2021 14:56
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Parley was kind of like: this is weird, but also stronger? Confident? That could be helpful. man gently caress tony tho The secondary friend squad was: this is weird, i was kind of getting used to there being 2 of them, they were even kind of different people. man gently caress tony tho. Paz: yeah i kind of hosed up when there were two of them. Kat seems shockingly okay now there's only one of them? Way better than the rest of us. man gently caress tony tho I get the vibe of "this is all really weird, and we dont know how to handle it" and trying to be polite about it. Side note it's nice to see the selfreflection on Paz. After her comments right after the norn chapter I wasnt sure she realyl got it.
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Apr 5, 2021 15:18
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The self-reflection is nice to see, but it still has me wondering exactly what she intends to apologize for. She keeps saying that how she went about it was bad and embarrassing, and that she didn't mean for it to go "like that." Which, fine. But it's a bit of a leap to say "I handled that badly" when you screamed "you do not deserve to be her friend." That kind of vitriol came from somewhere, and honestly that's the meat I want to see explored.
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Apr 5, 2021 16:06
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rannum posted:Parley was kind of like: this is weird, but also stronger? Confident? That could be helpful. man gently caress tony tho Yeah this was my vibe too, it's not that people aren't worried but when Annie is acting so happy on the surface it's hard to tell whether this is actually bad or not. Everybody has picked up that Tony is a jerk at this point, though, so they're more confident saying that. I've never really hated Paz for her going after Annie. It was definitely bad and unjustified, but I always got the impression it was a realistic thing for a teenager to do in that scenario. I imagine it might have worked better if we got a tidbit of her perspective at some point- if she'd been seeing her girlfriend be consistently obsessed and worried over what's going on with Annie for a few months, I could see how Paz's (still bad) reaction would be "Annie's being such a jerk if she doesn't notice Kat being that worried." Happy she's reflecting on it now.
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Apr 5, 2021 16:54
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Definitely happy to see Paz understanding that she wasn't being nice to Annies; although yeah, ganging up on them with bad intent needs a bit of extra apologizing even if nothing came out of it :/
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Apr 5, 2021 19:35
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J.A.B.C. posted:Maybe the 'people' Jones mentioned is Tony, and he is the only one actually worried. I think this makes sense. Tony sensed something different between the two versions of his daughter, which is why he was nice to one and cold to the other. Now that both are merged, I wonder how Tony is handling it? Annie seems happy, so I suspect he's acting warm but secretly freaking the gently caress out.
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Apr 5, 2021 19:38
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Yikes. Really don't think Tony's emotional abuse has anything to do with Annie herself. If it ends up being some difference on the two Annies end that drove the different treatment rather than something in Tony's head, that would really suck.
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Apr 5, 2021 22:22
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My interpretation was definitely that Tony saw one of the Annies as "the" Annie and consequently had his usual difficulties with that one, while the other one wasn't "the" Annie and thus he could feel more relaxed. That said, I 100% would've expected Tony to be cold towards this combined Annie again because, well, she'd be "the" Annie again.
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Apr 6, 2021 00:34
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just split into two annies and reform to vicariously feel loving parents
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Apr 6, 2021 04:22
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either way we’re probably going to see a conversation between a stone-faced humanoid entity insensate to emotions as mortals comprehend them, and Jones
Oxxidation fucked around with this message at 06:58 on Apr 6, 2021 |
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Apr 6, 2021 06:56
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I think we can all agree that Paz is nice and people should stop saying mean things about her. 
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Apr 6, 2021 08:04
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I picture Tony's treatment of Annie & Annie as having a little more to do with his neuroses, personally. Not really a "this is not my Antimony" thing so much as a "I do not know this Antimony" thing. Time and time again we've seen that he cannot relate in any way to someone he hasn't known for a long period of time with at least some of that time being spent alone one-on-one. We know from Annie herself that they didn't have this relationship when she was a child ("My father is a... quiet man"), but one Annie has/had lived with him since Loup's power trip and thus has spent that time, and the other had not. Tony seems to have never reconciled them as one individual according to Annie's('s) wishes like everyone else did, so he clams up around the Annie he sees as not having spent as much time around. But once you're cooped up together, actually spending that time is gonna take... time. Sorry for saying time so much edit: And like Court Annie said when this came up in the comic a while back, it's a step by step thing with Tony and it's not like either of the Antimony's just forgot that. For father's day hopefully she gets him some nice fatherly New Balance slip-on's. CJacobs fucked around with this message at 08:51 on Apr 6, 2021 |
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Apr 6, 2021 08:43
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CJacobs posted:I picture Tony's treatment of Annie & Annie as having a little more to do with his neuroses, personally. Not really a "this is not my Antimony" thing so much as a "I do not know this Antimony" thing. Time and time again we've seen that he cannot relate in any way to someone he hasn't known for a long period of time with at least some of that time being spent alone one-on-one. We know from Annie herself that they didn't have this relationship when she was a child ("My father is a... quiet man"), but one Annie has/had lived with him since Loup's power trip and thus has spent that time, and the other had not. Tony seems to have never reconciled them as one individual according to Annie's('s) wishes like everyone else did, so he clams up around the Annie he sees as not having spent as much time around. But once you're cooped up together, actually spending that time isn't gonna happen instantly.
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Apr 6, 2021 08:52
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They also did stuff when she was a kid. Hence her memories of them doing martial arts together and her holding his gi.
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Apr 6, 2021 09:12
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If anything I'd have said it's the opposite. Tony knows exactly how bad a father he is, and just how much he needs to make up for for the harm he's done to Annie and her life up to this point. But he has no idea what he can do to make things up to her, so he freezes up, and can only really manage the stern disciplinarian attitude that was such a problem in the first place and only making things worse. But with Forest Annie, if she was just a creation of Loup's or pulled in from another timeline then that's an Annie he doesn't owe that debt to - perhaps some other Tony in another world does, but it wouldn't have been him, and he could get over himself and actually treat her like the daughter he'd always wanted and needed to treat her as. Perhaps later he'd have learned that Forest Annie is no less real or his than Court Annie but by that point he'd already got past that awkwardness barrier, while he still hadn't with Court Annie (after all, he still hadn't done anything to make amends for his past abuse). It's an open question how he treats the combined Annie now. Is she the girl he still needs to make things right with, or the one he learned to talk to?
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Apr 6, 2021 09:55
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It really could just be as simple as the moment being right. It happened once and it could keep on happening.
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Apr 6, 2021 21:10
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New page: https://www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2451 And it comes with a coloring error!  Look at Idra's hand on Eglamore's waist.
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Apr 7, 2021 08:05
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