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TheAnomaly posted:No kidding. The only way to even get the old books is to go to a con where they've decided to do another limited run No I mean the guys who wrote the mechanics. Somewhere, deep within 7th Sea's many mechanical flaws and horrible metaplot, is a good game waiting to get out.
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Jan 28, 2011 05:34
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LogicNinja posted:No I mean the guys who wrote the mechanics. You mean John Wick? He's creative but uh... some people feel he has his issues. That said, you might want to check out Houses of the Blooded which uses similar mechanics and is more coherent from both a design and setting perspective.
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Jan 28, 2011 06:22
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I think LogicNinja meant that he wished the current group who wrote the L5R 4th Edition would make a new version of 7th Sea.
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Jan 28, 2011 08:43
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Dedman Walkin posted:I think LogicNinja meant that he wished the current group who wrote the L5R 4th Edition would make a new version of 7th Sea. Yes, that would actually be the correct reading of what he wrote. 
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Jan 28, 2011 13:40
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Dedman Walkin posted:I think LogicNinja meant that he wished the current group who wrote the L5R 4th Edition would make a new version of 7th Sea. I am aware of this, I'm simply lamenting that you can't even get the OLD books anymore in tangible form without paying a poo poo ton of money on Amazon and that the system and setting has essentially been thrown away despite a poo poo ton of potential (ruined mostly by hiring the same lovely writers as White Wolf, but that's digressing).
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Jan 28, 2011 19:05
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7th Sea also had the "minor" problem of being an RPG ostensibly about swashbuckling pirate adventures that failed to have a decent New World analogue (or another substitute) as part of the core setting. And no, the Twilight Archipelago doesn't loving count.
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Jan 29, 2011 00:30
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When will a goon run a Maptools L5R game is my question.
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Jan 29, 2011 09:57
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LGD posted:7th Sea also had the "minor" problem of being an RPG ostensibly about swashbuckling pirate adventures that failed to have a decent New World analogue (or another substitute) as part of the core setting. And no, the Twilight Archipelago doesn't loving count. The core setting was great, and all they really needed to do was a splat for the countries and a New World and African Coast settings. Instead the published splats for secret societies that mostly worked better as paragraph descriptions in the main book, then made up more secret societies when they ran out of the first set. Swashbuckling adventurers? Sure, but I want to play a neo-feminist archaeologist zorro ripoff.
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Jan 30, 2011 20:30
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This thread became utterly buried, but I'd like to see some more L5R discussion. I just picked up the 4th Ed. Corebook, and its been a great read so far. Do the supplements have the same level of quality as the corebook, and are any especially worth getting? I have a mechanical query too- in the case of Minor Clans being subsumed by Major Clans, can the families still take their family school from the Minor Clan section of the corebook? i.e. Could a Kitsune choose the Kitsune Shugenja school over the Moshi? (I have a soft spot for the Fox/Kyuden Kitsune since they were the first deck I picked up in the CCG, along with the Dragon back towards the end of the Jade block)
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Mar 31, 2011 03:02
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You really want Enemies of the Empire, it has a tonne of useful stuff and is excellent in terms of quality. It's also the only other book out right now, though Emerald Empire is coming soon. As for your question, yes, they can.
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Mar 31, 2011 05:33
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Thanks for the info, I'll definitely look into picking up Enemies of the Empire soon. I'm also trying to catch up on the ridiculous amount of lore I missed out on in the ten years since I was really into it; are there any good sites/books with more info than the corebook? The L5R site is a poorly designed mess, but I gather there is some sort of war with an Indian mythological analogue going on and can't find much info on it.
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Apr 1, 2011 04:49
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Gravy Train Robber posted:Thanks for the info, I'll definitely look into picking up Enemies of the Empire soon. I'm also trying to catch up on the ridiculous amount of lore I missed out on in the ten years since I was really into it; are there any good sites/books with more info than the corebook? The L5R site is a poorly designed mess, but I gather there is some sort of war with an Indian mythological analogue going on and can't find much info on it. The Alderac forum has a story section that might have a summary buried in it somewhere. I think the 4th ed books are pretty lore-light because rpg players are/were constantly whining about ccg players messing with their whatevers.
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Apr 1, 2011 19:14
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The 4E books try to support "All Eras" so if you're not knee deep in the up-to-the-minute CCG lore, you can just say "OK, it's the day after the Scorpion Clan Coup" and go from there. For instance, the Enemies book has full rules for Naga, even though the Naga are pretty much absent from the current story arc (unless they've come back since I last checked, which is pretty likely). Same thing with The Living Shadow.
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Apr 1, 2011 23:22
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A quick and dirty review for the Emerald Empire supplement that just came out for 4th edition. Emerald Empire was one of the last books that came out for 3rd edition, and was really good enough to be its own source book in some ways. There weren't a lot of mechanics in the book, but what it DID have was a lot of background. Hundreds of pages of what makes Rokugan unique, and more than a passing attempt at explaining how it became that way. It wasn't a necessary book; but it was very well done. Naturally, I felt I had to buy the 4th edition version. I mean, I'll pretty much buy anything for L5R, but this was a MUST HAVE. As it turns out... No. No, it's not. I'm lucky enough to have a very good memory. Not photographic, but I remember minutia that doesn't matter when I'm only casually paying attention, and when I love something to death, I tend to recall almost everything about it. Imagine my surprise when I start to read Emerald Empire 4, and see word for word copy and pasting from 3rd edition. And it's not a small amount, either. We're talking pages. Added together, maybe a whole chapter's worth. My initial reaction was that this is loving lazy, and a cop-out, but after closer inspection, they did take the BEST parts of the 3rd edition volume. The parts that really needed to be re-told. I'm not happy that they didn't change a single word, or try to give us new stories, but I understand. Kinda. Onto the good! The book is beautiful again, and hardcover, which is a personal preference. It's filled with art from the CCG and from other sources, but a few of the pictures are a little blurry, which is a shame, since L5R's aesthetics is one of its biggest selling points. There are new 4th ed schools for the Shinjo (The Shinjo are drat near broken), Doji, Soshi, Mirumoto and Crab, as well as several advanced paths. Plus, they've established mechanics for rank and station, suggesting what characters may be able to do if they are local governors or generals. I rather like this attempt, and will be trying it out, in all likelyhood. The pricetag was about 41$ Cdn for me, so it's not a wallet-buster like the other 4th edition books, but it's not a necessary book, especially if you have the 3rd edition version. If you don't, it becomes a lot better, and contains lots of flavourful info.
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Apr 6, 2011 19:56
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Tell me about the Shinjo and how they are broken please since the Unicorn were someone's favorite clan last edition of the rpg.
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Apr 7, 2011 00:56
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I wish the pdf of Emerald Empire would come out soon. I'm on a heavy L5R kick at the moment and need more reading material. I'm going through my pdf of the Corebook though, and I think there are some locations missing from the map (presumably located near the spine). I can't seem to find Kyuden Kitsune/Kitsune Mori anywhere despite the assistance from the back of the book. If anyone could help me figure out the general location that'd be great- I'm not even sure where/who it borders. Also, I'm still trying to get a grasp on Shugenja, so please correct me if I'm wrong: -They begin the game knowing a number of spells determined by their school. -Knowing a spell simply means they can cast it without a scroll. -Any spell can be cast if the Shugenja has the appropriate scroll, goes through a lengthier process of communing with the Kami, or spends experience points to memorise it. -Shugenja gain additional spells every time their school rank increases, but may purchase them with experience -Spells can be cast a number of times per day equal to the relevant ring Is that how it works in a nutshell?
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Apr 8, 2011 06:36
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Gravy Train Robber posted:I'm going through my pdf of the Corebook though, and I think there are some locations missing from the map (presumably located near the spine). I can't seem to find Kyuden Kitsune/Kitsune Mori anywhere despite the assistance from the back of the book. If anyone could help me figure out the general location that'd be great- I'm not even sure where/who it borders. They don't make 'em like they used to. In L5R 2nd, it's A26 and A25 respectively and in the same place in 1st. It's nestled in between the southern Crane, the Scorpion, and the Crab with the Sparrow. lovely iPhone pics: http://i.imgur.com/Yfzp5l.jpg http://i.imgur.com/1az34l.jpg
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Apr 8, 2011 12:21
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spacebard posted:They don't make 'em like they used to. In L5R 2nd, it's A26 and A25 respectively and in the same place in 1st. It's nestled in between the southern Crane, the Scorpion, and the Crab with the Sparrow. Awesome, thanks for the help. For some reason I thought it was much further north near Phoenix lands.
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Apr 8, 2011 12:28
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Gravy Train Robber posted:Also, I'm still trying to get a grasp on Shugenja, so please correct me if I'm wrong: Answering in order: 1) Yes, but it's not preset. Usually, you'll get 3 in your affinity, 2 and 1 in your neutral elements, and none of your deficiency. As well as sense and commune. 2) No. You need the scroll to cast, unless you spend two XP to make a spell an innate ability. If you have a spell as an innate ability, using the scroll gives you a free raise. 3) Not quite. You can only cast spells equal to your insight rank that you have the scroll for. The exception are for affinity spells, and deficiency spells; for which you raise and reduce by rank accordingly. That being said, if you do stumble upon another shugenja's spells, you can cast them freely if you meet the requirements. To do so is very taboo however, as most clans have spells that they simply do not let outsiders know about, or possibly worse, it suggests you looted a holy man's body. Not cool. Part of what makes maho effective, is that anyone, shugenja, peasant or otherwise can cast a level 6 maho spell with the proper knowledge, and prep work. The price is horrible, of course, but insta magic kill powers are pretty tempting. Lastly, there's importune, which is no longer a spell, but a spellcraft roll to ask the kami to lend you a spell to be used as an innate ability for 24 hours, to eb used ONCE, on an IOU. The elements will ask the shugenja to do something for them later. AS a GM, a 1st level spell might come with the price of opening a door to a musty cellar so the air kami can roam free, or moving a set of heavy rocks impeding the water kami in the river, but level 6 spells, might require a player to burn all of their possessions, remove all of the boats for a harbour, or even more herculean quests. Killing your character to get a huge casting bonus is allowed, as well. This isn't blood magic so much as giving up the elemental power within your body to help fuel a spell. 4) I believe that they learn two spells for free at each rank. I'd have to look it up though. You can also buy spells with XP, within reason. 5) Correct, however, you can drop a spell from your void ring's allocation, to cast a spell of any other element. Makes Void more worth while for non-Ishiken.
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Apr 11, 2011 22:00
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Also note that almost all spell scrolls are written in the cipher of the Clan that authored them (Shugenja are trained in their Clan's cipher), which means that the spell scrolls of a Shugenja from outside your Clan are useless unless you know the other Clan's cipher. Showing knowledge of a cipher of a Clan other than your own is a very dishonourable act and will almost certainly get you in trouble with the Clan whose cipher you learned without permission, and depending on the politics, could even require seppuku on your part.
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Apr 11, 2011 22:24
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NutShellBill posted:2) No. You need the scroll to cast, unless you spend two XP to make a spell an innate ability. If you have a spell as an innate ability, using the scroll gives you a free raise. That was in 3rd ed., but I don't think 4th ed. has the free raise rule. They don't throw free raises around like cheap candy anymore, and the fact that the base TN for spellcasting has been lowered by 5 since last edition kinda makes up for it, IMO.
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Apr 12, 2011 00:51
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Just FYI, if anyone's looking for Enemies of the Empire, the cheapest place I could find it (it appears to be out of print already) is at Troll and Toad. 27+ shipping. Amazon has preorders up for Emerald Empire, also at 27. If it's anything like the other books it'll go out of print so jump on that if you want it.
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Apr 12, 2011 08:18
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Where's a good place to find an explanation for all the fan-rage that AEG generated with its storyline. I stopped following the story after the Hidden Emperor Arc, and when I came back, I was pretty upset when I heard they essentially hit the reset button, but from what I understand fan complaints run much deeper than that.
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Apr 30, 2011 20:51
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gently caress metaplot forever.
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Apr 30, 2011 22:29
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Mahoshonen posted:Where's a good place to find an explanation for all the fan-rage that AEG generated with its storyline. I stopped following the story after the Hidden Emperor Arc, and when I came back, I was pretty upset when I heard they essentially hit the reset button, but from what I understand fan complaints run much deeper than that. I can give you the basics. The storyline isn't pre-determined, instead they host a series of big card game tournaments, and the winning deck of the tournament becomes the de-facto awesome dude in the next part of the storyline. It's a bit of a cool concept, except that it often means completely rewriting storylines/characters/events to make a clan the "hero" and often leads to certain clans maintaining the power of story awesome because their card decks are usually overpowered (traditionally Crane, Scorpion, and Dragon. I hear that Mantis is OP as hell right now, but I haven't played the CCG in a while). You follow that up with sharing many of the story-writers with white wolf, so you have a bunch of unique snowflake NPC's that become responsible for everything in the setting. Then they tried to create a unified bad guy throughout their three games in the same time period (Der Schattenman and the army of the Kreuzritter from 7th sea, the Lying Darkness from L5R and Burning Sands) that completely ignored most of the actual plotlines they'd set up in the storyline. That gets followed by an unexpected series of card game winners that further make the storyline implausible, so they decide to kill the last Hantei and have the spirits come back and gently caress poo poo up and re-do the entire setting that many people were heavily invested in for a very long period of time. It basically boiled down to writing themselves into a corner with crazy poo poo that was often out of left field due to the card game winner determining storyline progress and handling the end of the cluster gently caress poorly. EDIT: What Liesmith said.
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May 1, 2011 03:57
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There are a couple of websites that keep track of all the canonical fiction and metaplot developments. Here's one: http://www.kazenoshiro.com/ Another problem with L5R's plot is that nothing is ever permanent. Dead bad guys come back to life, destroyed factions come back into existence, clans that are driven out of Rokugan in disgrace are back with no permanent loss of status after a year. Seriously, it's like a comic book universe continuity, where nobody ever really dies or is permanently defeated, and the status quo always reasserts itself. Does anyone doubt that Iuchiban will be back, more powerful than ever, in a couple of years? It makes it hard to take much satisfaction from killing him when you know he'll just chill out in the character's lounge for a while until his next call up. Also, everybody faction and clan cycles through a good guy/rising power and influence/heel turn/mad with power/collapse of fortunes/slow rebuilding cycle. This is done to keep the CCG tournament environment lively (so that every faction gets its day in the sun) but it makes it hard to care about developments. I'm a Unicorn fan, and a couple of years ago they seemed on the verge of becoming the dominant clan in the setting, and I didn't care because I knew the metaplot required them to over-reach, screw up, fall out of grace, and have to rebuild their reputations and fortunes from scratch. And that's exactly what happened. Another example: there was a plot thread where the empire was running out of jade and the Crab were getting very worried. But events at the conclusion of the cycle resulted in a new supply of jade being found, so no problems. Lots of stuff happens, but none of it ever seems to matter in a serious and long-term way. The final problem with L5R's plot is that the production cycle requires massive events every year or two, to keep each storyline set and tournament year fresh and high-stakes. So if you follow the game for more than a few years, the cumulative weight of world-changing crises becomes preposterous. Ho hum, the Sun and Moon have fallen from the sky and dead spirits swarm the land, it must be a Tuesday. The stakes-raising is seen in other parts of the game. Every cycle seems to introduce another set of Ultimate Evil Artifacts into the setting, ages-old but never mentioned until right now, for example. It's a neat setting with a lot of stuff to recommend it. It's just hard to care about the ongoing metaplot churn because in the end so very little of it matters.
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May 1, 2011 10:08
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FMguru posted:Another problem with L5R's plot is that nothing is ever permanent. Dead bad guys come back to life, destroyed factions come back into existence, clans that are driven out of Rokugan in disgrace are back with no permanent loss of status after a year. Seriously, it's like a comic book universe continuity, where nobody ever really dies or is permanently defeated, and the status quo always reasserts itself. Does anyone doubt that Iuchiban will be back, more powerful than ever, in a couple of years? And try telling the Naga, Nezumi, Toturi's Army, and Brotherhood of Shinsei players that "destroyed factions come back into existence". They ain't getting their boxes back! TheAnomaly posted:You follow that up with sharing many of the story-writers with white wolf, so you have a bunch of unique snowflake NPC's that become responsible for everything in the setting. Adherence to the metaplot was the biggest thematic problem in 3E (the dismal editing process was the biggest overall, not to mention totally inadequate playtesting in every supplement), which is why a major selling point of 4E was that it no longer had anything to do with the metaplot and was not set in or beholden to any specific era, instead focusing on the "iconic" visions of the setting instead of how the setting exists at the time of the book's release. Well, they had to include the Spider clan for branding purposes and that only just came about recently, but they adequately explain it and don't tie the Shadowlands mechanics in with the Destroyer of the current plot arc or anything like that. The metaplot is a major (and majorly successful) selling point of the CCG and one of the main reasons for its success, but it just isn't compatible with good RPG design, and the smartest decision in 4e's creation was to realize this and just separate the two. So, if you just like the RPG, you only have to care about the setting and not give a poo poo for the metaplot, which is how it should be. And for the CCG players, the ongoing metaplot is pretty much like a comic book: it's a framework for cool or interesting stories to happen in, not a compelling 15-year narrative.
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May 1, 2011 17:19
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Huitzil posted:As far as I can tell, the last L5R story team member who also worked for White Wolf was Ree Soesbee, who left around Spirit Wars, so this hasn't been true since... 2001, I think? Nah. The Ontario By Night(  ) crew and a bunch of owod freelancers edit/brainstorm/contribute to the metaplot.:fuckmetaplot: Big Hubris fucked around with this message at 23:48 on May 2, 2011 |
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May 2, 2011 23:44
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Did anyone else pre-order Emerald Empire from Amazon? It went instantly to back order. Troll and Toad had 25 copies last time I checked. I'm starting to think that I should just wait and get L5R books from Troll and Toad regardless of my Prime account. EDIT: I just got a message that it's going to ship soon. RocknRollaAyatollah fucked around with this message at 03:32 on May 3, 2011 |
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May 3, 2011 02:38
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I'd preordered it from them and when I heard it was backordered I immediately cancelled and ordered it direct from Alderac (since they probably have the best direct-shipping-to-Canada after Amazon). I remember trying to track down a copy of Emerald Empire 3rd Edition about six months before they wrapped up 3rd edition and it was very nearly impossible to find, and it looks like this time around isn't going to be much different. If you want this game or any of its supplements, buy asap, is what I'm saying, because AEG seems allergic to second printings.
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May 3, 2011 14:45
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Yeah, AEG doesn't seem to really care about its RPGs anymore. They mostly seem focused on card games.
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May 3, 2011 15:32
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Ugggh... Don't get me started on the meta plot. My favorite factions are the Dragon clan and nezumi. I cannot for the life of me figure out what happened to my beloved ratlings. I am also a little surprised at the fact that a former dragon sits on the throne. In fact, the amount of change over that happens with the emperors means I do not get attached to any of them. It just gets stupid after a while. And while the setting is really nice, I have stayed away from the official forums... Least when I was last there there were a plethora of people who started "refurbishing" anime characters for the official picture of the character they played in the RPG.
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May 3, 2011 19:47
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The Nezumi are still around. After they wrote them out they retconned them back in, and they're actually more hopeful now than before: a lot of them feel that they've finally outran Tomorrow.
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May 4, 2011 03:48
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Etherwind posted:The Nezumi are still around. After they wrote them out they retconned them back in, and they're actually more hopeful now than before: a lot of them feel that they've finally outran Tomorrow. They aren't back in the CCG though, are they? In the setting two tribes didn't go to the warrens of the One and transcend with the rest, so they've always technically been there.
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May 4, 2011 04:30
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Is the only core book for this really $100? I liked first edition a bunch but don't have the books anymore. Is this really the only option to get into the latest edition RPG?
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May 4, 2011 05:04
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DriveThruRPG has the corebook for $35 as a PDF. As much as I'd love physical copies, the PDFs are much cheaper and easier to use.
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May 4, 2011 05:50
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Bellicose Buddha posted:Ugggh... Don't get me started on the meta plot. My favorite factions are the Dragon clan and nezumi. I cannot for the life of me figure out what happened to my beloved ratlings. Someone will need to refresh my memory, but I seem to recall the Nezumi left the world pretty epically.
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May 4, 2011 05:57
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MartianAgitator posted:Is the only core book for this really $100? I liked first edition a bunch but don't have the books anymore. Is this really the only option to get into the latest edition RPG? Troll and Toad has it for $50. They're pretty reliable too. I would also like to add that with this edition more than any other, you really only need the main book. Enemies of the Empire is good if you're running a game but unless you have a hardon for playing a Nezumi or "monstrous" race, you don't have to have it. A lot of the stuff in it is powerful too and I wouldn't throw it at players until after they've gone up in rank a couple of times.
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May 4, 2011 11:49
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My problem with Troll and Toad was that in order to get the fifty dollar book shipped to Canada, it was an extra $30. Was not impressed. None of my local game stores carry any L5R RPG books either. Back when I was tracking down 3rd Edition I went on a road trip to visit a few friends in a couple different cities, and we went to every gaming store in each city I stopped in (not just passing through though) and I found I think one L5R book the entire weekend, and that was dusty and forgotten. It's not a mainstream game, and I can see why AEG wouldn't want to print more than they can sell of this stuff, I just wish they'd go to some kind of print on demand solution with it so that the people who do want it can get it without paying exorbitant prices or, especially later in an edition, having to go to great lengths to track down the books. (For example, I ended up getting Emerald Empire 3rd Edition, after having called tons of game stores in my province and having friends try in several different countries, because one of my friends wrote a script to run searches on every Barnes and Noble individually to find it. The main search for the franchise as a whole said there were none but he'd found four stores had one each. I called the nearest one up, somewhere in New York I think, and had them ship it to me across the border.) It's good to hear that this edition's more corebook friendly. It also looks like they're compressing things even further, so that the great clans are getting one book instead of three like in 3rd edition or what, nine? in second and first...though that leaves me wondering how many books they'll be able to sustain before they run out of topics to cover in enough depth to justify the expense of the book...
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May 4, 2011 15:08
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MartianAgitator posted:Is the only core book for this really $100? I liked first edition a bunch but don't have the books anymore. Is this really the only option to get into the latest edition RPG? You may be looking at the 15th anniversary edition, which is not the same thing as the basic core book which retails for a more reasonable $60 MSRP. You shouldn't have much trouble getting a basic copy via Amazon/Powell's Books/another online retailer or by simply asking your LGS to order a copy for you from their distributor. The corebook really is quite extensive and I would say this is easily the best edition of the game. The supplements, while not remotely necessary, are very nice and seem useful to have. I'm really looking forward to the Great Clans sourcebook.
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May 4, 2011 18:55
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