|
the worst part is that since enemy EXP scales with enemy level, you can easily grind yourself to 99 farming gemstones for job and weapon upgrades
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 15:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? Sep 14, 2021 13:54 |
|
|
Elephant Parade posted:ffv barely had a plot, so whether you think bravely default's plot is better or worse essentially comes down to whether you like it at all Ffv didnt have much plot emphasis, but it had moments. Galufs desth, gilgameshs arc, etc. I think most of them landed.
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 16:04
|
|
|
FFV's plot was charming and exists, while for huge stretches of Bravely Default its "do what you did before, again, and no one in any position to progress the plot will tell you the plot or your characters will agree to do nothing" I really, really disliked Bravely Defaults writing
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 16:11
|
|
|
FFV and Bravely Default are both very good games 
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 16:29
|
|
|
Shame about Bravely Default 2.
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 16:32
|
|
|
Ibram Gaunt posted:Shame about Bravely Default 2. BD2 was fine. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 16:34
|
|
|
Evil Fluffy posted:BD2 was fine. It's good but not as good as the original which for a sequel is a hell of an albatross around its neck.
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 16:40
|
|
|
okay i finished bravely default last night after a 3 hour final boss fight lol I understand why people love the game, because of its combat sandbox where a variety of job applications (no pun intended) can be solutions to puzzle bosses in the right party configuration. But the game design makes an active effort to keep the combat from feeling fresh and inventive, by its nature of having one defined set of attack patterns for every boss no matter what rematch you're doing. The thief boss is always going to use a regular potion to heal himself and not a hi-potion or x-potion, even in the rematches. I was kind of hoping for more variation along the level of the rematch against... Ouroboros' assistant, where they added an additional Default/Brave move for them, changed the flare to the highest-damage fire attack in the game, added a Dread->Death combo, etc. Bear in mind though that I'm mostly bothered by the Temple rematches... the Asterisk rematches at least pair Asterisks together in interesting combinations and obviously that's one of the strengths of the back half. But the temple bosses are literally the same every time but with stat buffing. No new moves, no new wrinkles. It does not help that the majority of cutscenes in chapters 6-8 play out identically. If you go to the southwestern continent, you get the same cutscenes every time. If you defeat a temple boss, you get the same "Are you alright?" "I'm fine, I'm used to it now. Let's rest a bit and then move on to the next temple" cutscene. Boy did I get tired of hearing "NOT YET! JUST A LITTLE LONGER!" No XP for those Asterisk rematches though... really? Like, multiple people have told me levelling is not the point of the game, but if your stats are too weak you will do poo poo damage and not be able to block the massive damage attacks effectively. Certainly there were times when there were just straight up "you need more max HP" moments. Not everything can be Utsusemied, Enigmaed or Ramparted away (Disaster for starters....). So it did bother me that the asterisk rematches only provided JP. I feel like the rematches should have offered the same amount of XP as the Temple fights. Because grinding for levels is a tedious chore in the game and there's no fun way to do it, just boring as poo poo autobattling. The only reason I was able to finish the game was because I had characters survive a second Disaster in a row post-Reraise without another Reraise ready in time. And that only happened because my characters were level 78. Since you can't predict when Disaster (or [assistant]'s Slaughter) moves happen, I imagine a low-level final boss sequence involves a LOT of Defaulting and turtling and that sounds absolutely miserable to me. The story issues, yeah it makes sense that those ch5-6 cutscenes were added in For the Second... and yet it still doesn't. The game is practically screaming at you to shatter a crystal anyway, and certainly the player has to be feeling it by the time they hit the FIFTH LOOP. So... why on earth is the true ending going against the message of the game? It is baffling to me. Maybe they should've renamed the game to "Bravely Default: Wait Actually Don't Do That". Bravely Repeat. I was expecting the Far Cry 3 villain to show up and talk to me about the definition of insanity before pushing the heroes into the great chasm. I don't think the meta moment of the other worlds factoring in at the end actually works at all. I get it, they represent other players. But this actually creates more convolution... are they saying you're the first player to ever be dumb enough to let Ouroboros actually get resurrected? Because it seems like all the other worlds end in the heroes being defeated after discovering [the assistant]. And then you're the one player in the universe that defeats him, inspiring the other players to be successful (and get the worse ending)? Is this The Last Starfighter? Will I soon be isekaied into a fantasy world? Oh also, the whole Norende restoration had no narrative payoff (I think it would've been neat to see a simulacra of the town in the actual 3D world even if it's the same no matter what your progress is), and the Summon Friend thing, which seems to have been one of the planned driving mechanics of the final boss fight, is a huge bust, as most of the 'friends' the game auto-added each day had absolutely poo poo attacks (literally 1 damage attacks), and it seems like they're a one-and-done deal? (I had one who had a 9777 power attack that I could only ever use once in the entire game). So when your party member gets hit with that particular status, it just results in "Guess two of my party members are Defaulting for a few turns!" Actually I wanna go back to the story. Again, I can't stress enough how absolutely ghoulish the Eternian forces are in the atrocities they commit, so the idea that you might team up with them and be buddies is kinda revolting. They're not misunderstood victims, they're genocidal freaks who burn towns, try to assassinate kings, unleash massive chemical attacks, drug rape and murder women, starve their own townspeople and make them work 20 hour days, etc. Don't try to paint Braev as this compassionate but headstrong father, he surely hand-picked these people and knew how horrible they were -- he even expected Edea to 'keep them in line'. Keep genocidal maniacs in line? Are you loving serious Alright so the last boss fight... drat. My party was Monk/Spell Fencer (Valkyrie ended up being more hindrance than help), Spiritmaster/White Magic, Ranger/Templar, and Time Mage/Black Magic, after some failures and re-strategizing. Fairy Ward was a significant help along with Stillness to regroup, although I guess if I had switched out Templar for Merchant, Low Leverage could've been really handy (but also would've made the fight last even longer), as Rampart ended up being useless against Ouroboros. A constant back and forth of Stillness and Reraises to account for either the healer getting Friendzoned or an unpredicted Disaster out of nowhere while characters aren't Defaulting. Primary attacker was Monk, who hit the damage cap every time on Fira Pressure Point, but Time Mage threw in a couple of Meteors as well. I only had two megalixirs left in the final form (although I think with this strategy I only needed to use one of them). I had thought I was aggressive in buying 50 Turbo Ethers... and then I ran out of them! Yeah time magic and MP->BP are costly skills! Do I feel super accomplished for winning the fight (technically on a second try due to Time Slipping the 5th form)? Well, there are several JRPGs where I couldn't defeat the final boss and gave up, like FF13 and Fantasian... but those games were just straight-up bad top to bottom (well, the second half of Fantasian anyway). I think defeating a five-stage final boss is kinda cool, but it also took 3 hours so like... I wouldn't say it was a rip-roaring time. Tense, sure, but also sleepy. I think I ultimately prefer more aggressive play and because of my configuration and stats I just couldn't really do that. It was more like squeezing out little pockets of big damage every few turns. Thank goodness there was no turn limit!!! I will probably not play Bravely Second for a while... this one really caused some burnout. Not Xenosaga 2 levels of burnout but I wanna take a break from JRPGs for a couple of weeks at least.
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 17:04
|
|
|
what does it mean to default bravely
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 17:08
|
|
|
Jazerus posted:what does it mean to default bravely quote:According to scenario writer Naotaka Hayashi (Steins;Gate) and producer Tomoya Asano, “Bravely Default” means “Have courage and renounce the promises and responsibilities that are expected of you.”
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 17:10
|
|
|
Bravely Default is perhaps the word-saladiest game title, although it's a crowded field
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 17:21
|
|
|
The 7th Guest posted:The line given by Yulyana is "have the courage to disobey". Like, sometimes there is bravery in abdicating your responsibilities, rather than carrying them out without thought or question. and as stated above, doing this gets you the game’s worst ending
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 17:30
|
|
|
Srice posted:It's good but not as good as the original which for a sequel is a hell of an albatross around its neck. Most sequels to good things aren't as good as the previous ones.
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 17:36
|
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:Most sequels to good things aren't as good as the previous ones. For videogames iteration is pretty often a positive thing. Like a list of best of RPGs (or any other genre) is gonna have a lot of titles that end in a number other than one.
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 17:40
|
|
|
There's also a precedent in games for #2s being the weird odd-ones-out only for #3 to be a return to form and perfection of the formula (most notably with Mario and Zelda) but BD2 might technically be the third one in the series if you count Bravely Second so
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 17:43
|
|
|
Evil Fluffy posted:BD2 was fine. I thought it was poo poo from an rear end, personally. Didn't think the characters were particularly interesting, the classes were boring, and the counter system I thought just made the gameplay worse.
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 17:50
|
|
|
I had no idea there was a 3DS port of the PSP port of Final Fantasy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfNrc3VoeNA
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 17:56
|
|
|
shadow hearts 2, paper mario 2, wild arms 2, final fantasy 2, crime crackers 2, battle network 2, power pro-kun pocket 2, summon night 2, armored core 2, king's field 2, dark souls 2, dragon quest 2, fire emblem 2, the rumble fish 2, final fantasy tactics advance a2, valkyrie profile 2, mega man legends 2, metal gear ac!d 2, tokimeki memorial 2, wonder project j2, madou monogatari 2, custom robo v2, zettai zetsumei toshi 2, tales of the world: radiant mythology 2, tales of xillia 2, tales of destiny 2, tales of destiny 2, hydlide 2, ys 2, brandish 2, the legend of heroes 2, trails of cold steel 2, advance wars 2, jesus 2... Need I say mre? Thought not.
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 18:47
|
|
|
The Colonel posted:shadow hearts 2, paper mario 2, wild arms 2, final fantasy 2, crime crackers 2, battle network 2, power pro-kun pocket 2, summon night 2, armored core 2, king's field 2, dark souls 2, dragon quest 2, fire emblem 2, the rumble fish 2, final fantasy tactics advance a2, valkyrie profile 2, mega man legends 2, metal gear ac!d 2, tokimeki memorial 2, wonder project j2, madou monogatari 2, custom robo v2, zettai zetsumei toshi 2, tales of the world: radiant mythology 2, tales of xillia 2, tales of destiny 2, tales of destiny 2, hydlide 2, ys 2, brandish 2, the legend of heroes 2, trails of cold steel 2, advance wars 2, jesus 2... Zwei II, the 2iest 2 of them all
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 18:50
|
|
|
I mean I said "precedent" not "without exception", and also at least a couple of those examples are in fact popularly considered worse than their originals
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 18:57
|
|
|
also Jesus 2 was actually the sixth Jesus, the others just never got translated
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 19:00
|
|
|
A lot of the time a sequel will take a bunch of liberties with the formula of the original, in order to distinguish the two games, and some of them will work, and some of them will not work, and by #3 they tend to have a better idea of which is which. This is why some sequels to popular originals flop, and also why some sequels to obscure or niche originals really take off (Shadow Hearts 2 comes to mind here) a bunch of those examples are also niche sequels to niche originals, which, I'm gonna be honest, I have no idea whether mentioning Brandish 2 or Madou Monogatari 2 makes you need say more or not???
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 19:00
|
|
|
Endorph posted:Ffv didnt have much plot emphasis, but it had moments. Galufs desth, gilgameshs arc, etc. I think most of them landed. loquacius posted:A lot of the time a sequel will take a bunch of liberties with the formula of the original, in order to distinguish the two games, and some of them will work, and some of them will not work, and by #3 they tend to have a better idea of which is which. This is why some sequels to popular originals flop, and also why some sequels to obscure or niche originals really take off (Shadow Hearts 2 comes to mind here)
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 19:07
|
|
|
metroid 2 is quite a bit different. much closer to super than to metroid 1 despite the janky super-zoomed-in view
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 19:20
|
|
|
loquacius posted:There's also a precedent in games for #2s being the weird odd-ones-out only for #3 to be a return to form and perfection of the formula (most notably with Mario and Zelda) but BD2 might technically be the third one in the series if you count Bravely Second so Why the hell did they do this anyways? I didn't play much of BD1, it just seemed way too generic to catch my interest, but I feel like a grandma trying to differentiate Bravely Default 2 and Bravely Second. I'm guessing one is a direct sequel and one isn't, but seriously.
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 19:28
|
|
|
I think Bravely Default 2 is the one that's actually not a direct sequel.
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 19:30
|
|
|
they did it because it's funny and the confusion can be resolved in three seconds by googling "bravely default release order"
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 19:31
|
|
|
It’s funny? Is there some in joke that makes it funny
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 19:34
|
|
|
Jazerus posted:metroid 2 is quite a bit different. much closer to super than to metroid 1 despite the janky super-zoomed-in view CharlestheHammer posted:It’s funny? Is there some in joke that makes it funny (I haven't played Second or II, so there could additionally be a larger joke or deeper meaning within the games themselves)
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 19:41
|
|
|
loquacius posted:That's simultaneously the coolest and most annoying thing about Arcanum: if you learn too much tech poo poo, you become an r/atheist and magic isn't real anymore, meaning healing spells fizzle on you and magic items aren't magical. But if you learn too much magic, science becomes dangerous hubristic God-playing, meaning that tech items loving explode if you try to use them. This means that if you aren't explicitly going all-in on magic or science, it's very much to your advantage to make sure your tech/magic affinity is flat neutral. Going max tech also means enemy spells and magic items are less likely to work on you, and this can be quite useful. e: Basically, if you are more techy than your magical enemy is magical, their stuff fizzles out on you rather than vice versa.
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 19:42
|
|
|
Acerbatus posted:Why the hell did they do this anyways?
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 19:44
|
|
|
Super Mario 2 is some bullshit though
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 19:48
|
|
|
Lost Levels had the opposite problem from what I was talking about, in that it was mechanically almost identical to SMB1, in addition to being too hard
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 19:52
|
|
|
Bravely Second was a bit better than Default mechcanically and didn't have the nonsense ending which everyone complains about, but it didn't have the insanely good asterisk refights so on balance it's worse BD2 I didn't even finish. It just didn't really work on any level. A speed-based system just doesn't mesh at all with the brave/default system, the difficulty curve was hosed, it looked weird, I just really have nothing positive to say about it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 19:56
|
|
|
Skwirl posted:I have no idea what happened with Zelda, but Nintendo made a pretty straightforward sequel to Super Mario Brothers, but decided it was too hard for Americans so instead did a sprite swap on a different game for the American Super Mario Brothers 2. It was eventually released stateside as part of the compilation "Super Mario Allstars" as "The Lost Levels." woah... you learn something new every day
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 19:58
|
|
|
cheetah7071 posted:Bravely Second was a bit better than Default mechcanically and didn't have the nonsense ending which everyone complains about, but it didn't have the insanely good asterisk refights so on balance it's worse Out of curiosity what does speed based mean? AGI ended up being critical for me to beat BD by giving the Hermes Shoes to my spiritmaster so she could act before Ouroborus and his underling (as no one else was fast enough).
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 20:12
|
|
|
BD2 has the FFX system where speed determines how soon you act again, which different actions having different delay modifiers. This meshes as badly with braving and defaulting as you might guess
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 20:39
|
|
|
Elephant Parade posted:Not sure that the weird-experimental-sequel is a more common occurrence than the straightforward-iterative-sequel, though. I think instances of the former just stick in our minds better because they're unexpected and they differentiate themselves more from other series entries. Sure, Zelda 2 is weird, but Kirby 2 is just Kirby with a new mechanic and Metroid 2 is just Metroid with a minor progression gimmick. It might be worth running the numbers to see how common offbeat sequels really are, although it'd be a bit of a pain to do. Kirby 2 (meaning Kirby's Adventure) is the first one where Kirby could actually steal enemy powers; in the first one he was just a cream puff that ate things. This is a pretty substantial change in the concept of the character, to say nothing of the game design! Experimentation does sometimes work. In this case, the mechanic worked so well that Kirby games where he doesn't steal powers (eg Epic Yarn) are considered the weird ones. Does this undermine my original contention? Probably! But it wasn't really an incremental change either. And my impression was always that Metroid 2 was "a Game Boy Metroid game" before it was a sequel to the original. Many such games! Putting a 2 in the name wasn't really the norm for them though.
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 20:42
|
|
|
cheetah7071 posted:BD2 has the FFX system where speed determines how soon you act again, which different actions having different delay modifiers. This meshes as badly with braving and defaulting as you might guess Oh, does that mean it’s not round based? That does sound like it’d throw the balance off.
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 20:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? Sep 14, 2021 13:54 |
|
|
Yeah it's not round based
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 20:48
|
|