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cheetah7071 posted:BD2 has the FFX system where speed determines how soon you act again, which different actions having different delay modifiers. This meshes as badly with braving and defaulting as you might guess gross
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Sep 6, 2021 20:50
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The game also decides a great system is to have every boss counter a bunch of things so your strategies become more narrow and less freeform. Maybe later bosses changed this but I was completely done with the game shortly after the beastmaster boss.
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Sep 6, 2021 20:51
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Thanks for reminding me, I remembered the bosses sucked but I couldn't remember what sucked about them Imagine a boss having a move "counter black magic" where if you use a black magic command it just owns you. Except it's for three different skills, not just black magic, and it's every boss
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Sep 6, 2021 20:55
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Ibram Gaunt posted:The game also decides a great system is to have every boss counter a bunch of things so your strategies become more narrow and less freeform. Maybe later bosses changed this but I was completely done with the game shortly after the beastmaster boss. On the other hand it stops the game from being a solved puzzle as quickly as the first game where with very little effort you can become an infinite turn billion damage god.
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Sep 6, 2021 21:03
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thats the fun part of a game with such an open job system. its really hard to make a game like that balanced. ffv sure didnt manage it
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Sep 6, 2021 21:06
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:On the other hand it stops the game from being a solved puzzle as quickly as the first game where with very little effort you can become an infinite turn billion damage god. Who cares if someone wants to do the boring route in a single player RPG, is really all I can say to it. It doesn't only punish this style of player but anyone else who just happened to have those counters as their current setup, requiring them to go back and grind. I don't like it! I'm not against the idea of an rpg where every boss is a puzzle you have to have all the correct moves per boss equipped but I don't think the Bravely series really should be that. Ibram Gaunt fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Sep 6, 2021 |
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Sep 6, 2021 21:07
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Who cares if someone wants to do the boring route in a single player RPG, is really all I can say to it. It doesn't only punish this style of player but anyone else who just happened to have those counters as their current setup, requiring them to go back and grind. I don't like it! I personally found the first game and Second a bit more boring because of that though. At some point before the 3 man Boss Fights against the job holders my build just clicked and literally nothing could touch me and it was just a snooze fest completely. Also my interest in the first two games aren't that precious to me in the exact details so I had no issue with them trying something different with this one wrt making bosses more focused puzzles.
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Sep 6, 2021 21:14
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cheetah7071 posted:BD2 has the FFX system where speed determines how soon you act again, which different actions having different delay modifiers. This meshes as badly with braving and defaulting as you might guess Yeah it's fine they tried something new but if they make a Bravely Threefault I hope it goes back to turn-based. Ibram Gaunt posted:The game also decides a great system is to have every boss counter a bunch of things so your strategies become more narrow and less freeform. Maybe later bosses changed this but I was completely done with the game shortly after the beastmaster boss. Ironic, since Beastmaster is a job that lets you pretty much ignore the counter system.
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Sep 6, 2021 21:27
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Who cares if someone wants to do the boring route in a single player RPG, is really all I can say to it. It doesn't only punish this style of player but anyone else who just happened to have those counters as their current setup, requiring them to go back and grind. I don't like it! Having bosses be a puzzle is fine, as long as you don't have to hope that you have the pieces required to solve it. Like, having a boss in some game be immune to everything except wind attacks is fine, except in games where it's very possible that you might have absolutely no wind attacks in your arsenal.
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Sep 6, 2021 21:29
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Evil Fluffy posted:
Beastmasters being able to hold more than one monster at a time and half of the monster abilities being BIG DAMAGE + STATUS makes that class so fun. I really enjoy how actually useful status effects are in that game. Between BST and RDM you can really shut down a lot of the enemies abilities and counters.
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Sep 6, 2021 21:31
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loquacius posted:Kirby 2 (meaning Kirby's Adventure) is the first one where Kirby could actually steal enemy powers; in the first one he was just a cream puff that ate things. This is a pretty substantial change in the concept of the character, to say nothing of the game design! Experimentation does sometimes work. In this case, the mechanic worked so well that Kirby games where he doesn't steal powers (eg Epic Yarn) are considered the weird ones. Does this undermine my original contention? Probably! But it wasn't really an incremental change either.
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Sep 6, 2021 21:42
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Beastmasters being able to hold more than one monster at a time and half of the monster abilities being BIG DAMAGE + STATUS makes that class so fun. I really enjoy how actually useful status effects are in that game. Between BST and RDM you can really shut down a lot of the enemies abilities and counters. It's very wild how you get a stronger version of unleashing monsters so that + captures that have strong late game spells that you won't get for several more hours resulted in a lot of fun, just straight up nuking bosses in the first half immediately.
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Sep 6, 2021 22:07
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I dug into Ryza 2 after beating the first and it's overall such an improvement on the first it's hard to believe it came out as quickly as it did. There were times I thought "this could be better/improved" while playing the first game and the second one immediately answers like, all of them. You get to your first battle so quickly (I guess) in an effort to show off how much smoother and better integrated all your skills are into the flow of it. I always felt like an auto-attack bot in the first game just beelining to Tactics Lv 5. Ryza 2 wants you to use your skills right away to build up CC to use items. It even has a timed guard mechanic which I dig. I almost immediately changed to Hard though, since the early enemies melt so fast you really never get a chance to get your tools out otherwise. Alchemy feels better too. Quality seems purely additive now? If you add a low quality item to a high quality total, it just adds that to the total rather than averaging it like every other game in the series. Still figuring out the unlock system but with the return of bounties or whatever it seems like SP is pouring in to do so. Feels like it's going to take some time to unfold the alchemy tricks but it feels really user friendly up front. The main city being a big metropolis style hub is an interesting change too. Kurken Island felt really remote and now even moreso given how busy the capital is. It looks really amazing after it rains on the PS5. The water reflections are kind of amazing in this game.
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Sep 6, 2021 23:53
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Been enjoying Bravely Default 2. Played the first but ended up never finishing it, and really don't remember much from it, other than some creepy/rapey character. Shame there's no ultrawide support, but on the other hand, now i can grind with windowed while watching youtube videos.
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Sep 7, 2021 00:24
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Elephant Parade posted:I mean, Adventure adds a single (though large and impactful) system while maintaining everything from the original. Kirby still controls in the same way aside from B activating your copy ability (if any) rather than inhaling/spitting; the game is still divided into stages (although there are more of them, and a world map for navigation); most enemies and characters return. It isn't a lazy or incremental sequel, but it doesn't try to redefine what already exists, only expand it—and yeah, it formed the template for the entire rest of the series. (Spinoffs like Canvas Curse and Epic Yarn don't really play anything like Dream Land, either; they ditch practically all of Kirby's abilities, not just the ones introduced in Adventure. As far as I'm aware, there are no Dream Land-likes in the series—even the numbered Dream Land sequels add copy abilities and have an Adventure-like structure.) I mean there isn't really a whole lot in this post that contradicts mine? We agree that Kirby's Adventure introduced the Copy ability to inject some life into a franchise that definitely wouldn't have had the longevity it's had without it, and it paid off in that it became the main gimmick of the character in question. Yes, there are stages in both games, but this wasn't really the distinguishing factor in the series. My point is that second entries often tend to be experimental like this, and this has kneecapped franchises with fantastic first entries (before a Return To Form in #3) as well as supercharged franchises with weak first entries. Like, I loved Kirby's Dream Land, it was the first game I ever beat (since you can beat it in like 30 minutes in a casual playthrough or something lol) but I don't think there would have been more than a couple games in that franchise without the Copy ability. It was a gamble, and those pay off sometimes!
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Sep 7, 2021 00:41
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loquacius posted:Lost Levels had the opposite problem from what I was talking about, in that it was mechanically almost identical to SMB1, in addition to being too hard
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Sep 7, 2021 00:53
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Lost Levels is actually a pretty great case study in video game sequels, because they were still trying to figure out what a home video game sequel should be like, the people they were selling to were people that had beaten and mastered SMB1 and wanted more of it, but they learned that there aren't enough of those people to begin with and not a lot of them were willing to pay full retail for what we would now call challenge DLC. That was what established that home video game sequels should be their own standalone games. Not an RPG I know, I just like talking about it e: Zereth posted:There were mechanics differences, but they were mostly in service of making the game harder. The only one I can really remember was the poison mushrooms e2: Oh right, they also had Luigi playable by player 1, with slight gameplay differences, and they buffed Koopa Troopas and Buzzy Beetles, so tbh the "full-price challenge DLC" analogy holds up IMO loquacius fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Sep 7, 2021 |
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Sep 7, 2021 00:54
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<Gestures at Wizardry 4> Look, I get it, after three games you need me to up the dosage
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Sep 7, 2021 02:09
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I think I would have had a much more favorable impressions of Bravely Default 2 if the game had told you what the boss gimmick was well in advance, so you could plan out a strategy and start gaining JP on it, so you wouldn't be surprised by the boss suddenly telling your favorite jobs to eat poo poo and have to go grind up something new
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Sep 7, 2021 02:12
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What Bravely Default needs is the Pokemon Gym Guide.
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Sep 7, 2021 02:28
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Just saw that Bravely Default 2 is on Steam, how is the game? I remember trying out BD1 on the 3DS a long time ago and played maybe 6 hours but dropped off; iirc I felt that the battle system was slow, but it's possible that I didn't really get what it wanted out of me. I also didn't connect with the cast so I had very little motivation to continue, but maybe BD2 is better in those regards? EDIT: Never mind, I got my answer after going back a couple of pages, not gonna get it as it sounds even worse!
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Sep 7, 2021 02:30
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Oh, and I missed this onemy dad posted:Going max tech also means enemy spells and magic items are less likely to work on you, and this can be quite useful. While this is true, there actually aren't that many places in the game where hostile spells get used on you, whereas you get a magic healer in your party before you can take your first step, and tech healing is pretty reliant on you having the foresight to farm herbs in the crashed airship area to build up a stockpile, so the healing issue is more important I think maybe the Schuylers are the only hostile mages in the first half of the game unless I'm forgetting something? And you don't have to fight them if you have a couple points in Persuasion and don't have Magnus in your party It is 100% possible that the only reason I think this is that I favor technology characters and so hostile spells are constantly fizzling on me without me even noticing though
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Sep 7, 2021 02:31
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cheetah7071 posted:I think I would have had a much more favorable impressions of Bravely Default 2 if the game had told you what the boss gimmick was well in advance, so you could plan out a strategy and start gaining JP on it, so you wouldn't be surprised by the boss suddenly telling your favorite jobs to eat poo poo and have to go grind up something new The game teaches you about chaining enemies and the exp/jp boost that comes with it early in the game. You can hit up the beach area near the first town and max out a job in 5-10 minutes if needed.
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Sep 7, 2021 02:37
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i guess it is more like ff3, oddly enough. so you are supposed to switch jobs to suit each new task instead of sticking with one set.
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Sep 7, 2021 02:43
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loquacius posted:I mean But I agree that it isn't a borderline expansion-pack sequel like, say, Lost Levels. I just think it's an expansionist sequel rather than a transformationist one, and I thought you were calling it the latter. * I know Super Mario Bros. 2 wasn't developed as a Super Mario Bros. game, but it's one of the games that started the conversation
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Sep 7, 2021 03:38
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Death End Request was good enough that it has become the first Compile Heart game I’ve ever finished. There was only a couple scenes I cringed at, and the combat gets hilarious when you get the first summon which adds a bonus to your knock back and the game will start freaking out as enemies and bosses begin pin balling all over the place with wild abandon. I played it on the Switch and while it did chug a bit the game looked and ran ok, especially for a B tier rpg ported by a pretty small company. I don’t know that I could ever recommend this game to anyone, because you sort of have to go in with the right expectations, but I liked it. I’ll definitely play 2 when it gets ported to the switch. Also the story is pretty compelling, and over the top, but I think it may be better to go into that bit blind if you wanna give it a try.
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Sep 7, 2021 03:53
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I would have liked it more if it just didn't have the combat
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Sep 7, 2021 03:56
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kirbysuperstar posted:I would have liked it more if it just didn't have the combat The less they allowed an enemy to be knocked back the worse the combat got for me. There are some bosses that you can get bouncing around the screen for 20 seconds that would die in 1 turn. The balance was really weird too, the regular encounters were sometimes way harder than the bosses. I usually use the combat in JRPGs to zone out and listen to podcasts, so it’s a necessary part of the equation for me; I get the argument that it probably works way better as just a visual novel.
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Sep 7, 2021 04:02
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Ibram Gaunt posted:The game also decides a great system is to have every boss counter a bunch of things so your strategies become more narrow and less freeform. Maybe later bosses changed this but I was completely done with the game shortly after the beastmaster boss. Really you get a lot of answers and passives eventually so it felt pretty freeform. But the more builds you explore you quickly realize what's busted and what's not and that limits you more than anything. The early game def sucked for builds though.
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Sep 7, 2021 05:06
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..oh, the false ending of bravely default isn't even that different from the true ending, you just don't fight ouroboros. i guess they want the true ending to be true because it lets them have all the meta fun. but the normal ending seems perfectly fine imo
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Sep 7, 2021 05:09
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Re: Arcanum I recently solved my troubles by starting with the Bandit-background (you get a good gun and 50 bullets, which together is ironically worth more than the starting money most other characters can get), which allowed me to steamroll most early game enemies with just one, uninterrupted, hail of bullets. Later me going deep into gunsmithing and bomb making caused Virgil to stop being useful, so I ditched him for his female techno-mirror. So my Phoebe Ann Moses exspy run is go! Some observations from going Bandit: -50 bullets aren't that much actually, but it lasted me through most of the first dungeon, after that I had enough money to keep my bullets at a healthy 100+ reserve between adventures -For the longest time I didn't notice the -1 to Charisma for taking the Bandit-background was the reason no-one wanted to join me after Virgil. I guess my next level up will have to address this! -The combination of gun-toting main and melee-healer as support is awfully hard on the healer. Virgil kept dying on me, thanks to my main mostly maneuvering around for good angles to shoot from while he was getting mobbed. -The shooting is astonishingly realistic: While point-blanc shooting works, optimal range for your gun is actually about "good line-of-sight plus enough room to swing your gun around without taking someone's eye out"-length -Also, Arcanum dutifully assumes you don't want to hit your friends, so shooting into melee needs some advanced positioning skills, otherwise the game will simulate you going for careful trick shots past Virgil's ears (your to-hit chances drop massively if someone's blocking your line-of-sight) Great fun so far! Now I just need to restore that missing Charisma-point so our healer doesn't have to double as the meatshield 
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Sep 7, 2021 08:51
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Note about Arcanum builds: Your starting bonuses/maluses to stats influence the maximum number of points you can have in said stat. Having 20 in a stat results in a huge boost of some sort, which influences the viability of certain builds. e: Dexterity in particular is incredibly potent, and strength is too on any melee build.
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Sep 7, 2021 09:01
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loquacius posted:The only one I can really remember was the poison mushrooms
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Sep 7, 2021 09:12
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Oh, and IIRC the pyrotechnic axe doesn't take damage from things that normally damage weapons, and is really easy to craft if you find the schematic. Excellent weapon to use and give to your non-magical party members and can easily take you to the endgame.
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Sep 7, 2021 09:20
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wrt the counters in Bravely Default 2, eventually the bosses just start countering upon taking any damage so it's just something to plan around. Some of the late game counters get wild, like a chance to gain +1 BP each time they take damage so I'd just play under the assumption that they could at any time spend all their BP to try to dunk on me.
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Sep 7, 2021 10:55
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Ragequit posted:The game teaches you about chaining enemies and the exp/jp boost that comes with it early in the game. You can hit up the beach area near the first town and max out a job in 5-10 minutes if needed. The game asking you to grind means the game is bad, actually.
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Sep 7, 2021 11:24
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Clarste posted:The game asking you to grind means the game is bad, actually. It's not asking you to grind though.
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Sep 7, 2021 11:29
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I can't say I ever had to grind in BD2 since you get plenty of jp just going through encounters + the jp orbs you get from the idle game. It's nice that it has all those bonus options for folks that do wanna grind but I did just fine on hard mode without grinding.
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Sep 7, 2021 11:30
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Srice posted:I can't say I ever had to grind in BD2 since you get plenty of jp just going through encounters + the jp orbs you get from the idle game. It's nice that it has all those bonus options for folks that do wanna grind but I did just fine on hard mode without grinding. Same - the orbs you occasionally find are plenty for getting a huge head start in a job. If you get creative with the plethora of skills there isn't a need to grind.
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Sep 7, 2021 11:38
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You literally just recommended going to a beach and grinding for 10 minutes. Am I being gaslighted?
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Sep 7, 2021 11:47
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