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oh also i recently had a second boss fight against that rock musician guy and he loving sucks i mean him as a character, the boss fights were fine god his dialogue is awful, just completely terrible. im not sure if it's on purpose to make him less likeable or if the writers/translation team just screwed up
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Jul 2, 2020 05:58
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Xillia and Xillia 2 are both fine games, but Xillia 2 does recycle a ton of stuff from Xillia 1. I'm playing through Zestiria now with my wife and boy is the battle camera bad. This really is the most ambitious Tales game I've seen by a long shot and I appreciate that it tried even if the gameplay and difficulty curve is kind of all over the place.
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Jul 2, 2020 08:35
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I finished Persona 4 Golden with the "true" ending. It's taken me about 55 hours all in all which isn't bad. That included repeating two spots because I got the bad ending then the normal ending first. I enjoyed it, reminded me of Trails of Cold Steel - which I know is following a similar pattern - but I don't really agree with the huge plaudits the game gets. We'll discount the game pretty explicitly saying "you'll grow out of being gay/trans" and the really creepy stuff Teddy does almost constantly. That's bad already but I guess I can pretend that they're just explaining themselves ham-handedly and they don't actually mean it the way it's displayed. However the dungeons are very repetitive. I get it's a PS2 game but they're literally identical with new tilesets and I found exploring them pretty tedious especially considering they were so large. And the social links all being to do with creating personas seemed a little disappointing to me, I guess. I enjoyed the scenes and getting to know the characters and such, it's that it almost felt like the game was two games pasted together and the actual fighty-persona part of it was kinda boring? I also can't believe the way the true ending stuff works since you almost definitely will need a guide for it. Guess that's par for the course on older RPGs, they probably wanted you to buy the Prima Guide or whatever.
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Jul 2, 2020 10:56
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Taear posted:We'll discount the game pretty explicitly saying "you'll grow out of being gay/trans" and the really creepy stuff Teddy does almost constantly. That's bad already but I guess I can pretend that they're just explaining themselves ham-handedly and they don't actually mean it the way it's displayed. Atlus is pretty bad on stuff like this in general. P5 wasn't really any better in this regard.
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Jul 2, 2020 11:05
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RottenK posted:oh also i recently had a second boss fight against that rock musician guy and he loving sucks Yeah he's supposed to be a creep, you're having the right reaction.
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Jul 2, 2020 11:37
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Taear posted:I also can't believe the way the true ending stuff works since you almost definitely will need a guide for it. Guess that's par for the course on older RPGs, they probably wanted you to buy the Prima Guide or whatever. like first of all in golden, you can't max out adachi's social link without doing it which is an incredibly obvious sign that you missed something. the story is also somewhat unsatisfying without it. anyway, whatever sign you pick up on or even if you don't, you only need to keep exploring the town at the "end" and you'll run into it. it has absolutely nothing on some of the actual "we made this to sell guides" design decisions from older RPGs you're talking about.
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Jul 2, 2020 12:07
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The real bastard of P4's true ending path was choosing the right dialogue choice in the hospital with Namatame, which doesn't make it clear at all that the 'we can't kill him' option actually means 'let's give up and go home'
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Jul 2, 2020 12:27
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multijoe posted:The real bastard of P4's true ending path was choosing the right dialogue choice in the hospital with Namatame, which doesn't make it clear at all that the 'we can't kill him' option actually means 'let's give up and go home' This is what I mean yes. If you don't pick the EXACT right options it gives you the bad ending. If it was just "don't put Namatame in the TV" then sure, that'd be fine but it's way more than that. Amppelix posted:agreed with the rest of your post but the true ending really isn't that hidden (even though the game really likes to pretend that it is) I didn't do Adachi's link at all. And you still get the true ending without having done it thankfully. The thing is I feel like the "keep exploring the town" bit doesn't really fit around the way the game worked previously so I would have just picked yes to go and continue packing. Without the guide I definitely 100% wouldn't have got the true ending which kinda sucks because it's so much extra content and actually feels like it properly ends the story in a way the other endings absolutely don't. Especially the dialogue with the lady at the petrol station where she kept ending it and I had to keep talking to her again. I'd have gone away with the bad ending and that'd have been it.
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Jul 2, 2020 12:48
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Don't openly spoil a major part of a 50-hour game that got a recent rerelease guys, come on.
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Jul 2, 2020 12:53
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I was so gun shy on account of getting the bad ending during That Scene that I just looked up a guide to get the true ending when the time came. I wasn't gonna risk it. I had already heard from people who totally missed he true ending in P4 so I especially didn't trust myself to get it. It's really nothing special, anyway. You won't find a bigger P4G fanboy than me but I remember precisely nothing about the final dungeon or boss. I don't think anybody really does. Because the game is about the Killer and that was an awesome not-final dungeon and satisfying boss fight and then they just tacked on some more poo poo because reasons. I kinda wanna compare it to SMTIV Apocalypse since the second-to-last dungeon was way better there too but the final boss in that game is fuckin' awesome and also, while not featured in the game until the ending, they were mentioned a lot and were relevant to everything that happened. Unlike the P4 final boss.
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Jul 2, 2020 13:03
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NikkolasKing posted:It's really nothing special, anyway. You won't find a bigger P4G fanboy than me but I remember precisely nothing about the final dungeon or boss. I don't think anybody really does. Because the game is about the Killer and that was an awesome not-final dungeon and satisfying boss fight and then they just tacked on some more poo poo because reasons. So basically what P5 does?
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Jul 2, 2020 13:41
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NikkolasKing posted:I was so gun shy on account of getting the bad ending during That Scene that I just looked up a guide to get the true ending when the time came. I wasn't gonna risk it. I had already heard from people who totally missed he true ending in P4 so I especially didn't trust myself to get it. Don't get me wrong the final dungeon is just as rubbish as the other dungeons in the game but the actual true ending stuff is good, I liked it and felt it was worth the hassle. Neddy Seagoon posted:Don't openly spoil a major part of a 50-hour game that got a recent rerelease guys, come on. I don't feel like any exact details have been revealed in any of what we've said but you saying it might be a spoiler might actually make it into one tbh. Unless you mean the knowledge of there being a true ending is a spoiler which I can see and I can hide that. In other news I'm playing Brigandine and I'm not too far into a campaign. It's such a strange game. I am enjoying it - probably because it reminds me so much of dragon force - but I wish there was more variety of units!
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Jul 2, 2020 13:43
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Taear posted:I don't feel like any exact details have been revealed in any of what we've said but you saying it might be a spoiler might actually make it into one tbh. You both openly talk about the assumed killer, who they are, infer they're not the actual killer, and top it off with talking about tossing them into the TV to kill them.
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Jul 2, 2020 13:47
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Neddy Seagoon posted:You both openly talk about the assumed killer, who they are, infer they're not the actual killer, and top it off with talking about tossing them into the TV to kill them. I feel like it's only a spoiler if you already know the game. And now that you've said what you've said people might guess it's adachi, but that's not what we've inferred at all.
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Jul 2, 2020 14:01
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Taear posted:I feel like it's only a spoiler if you already know the game. And now that you've said what you've said people might guess it's adachi, but that's not what we've inferred at all. You two also talked about how you can't max Adachi's link so it's pretty obvious something's off so the fact that you mention a) the assumed killer and b) one other person, it's obvious what the role of that second person is. Personally I got spoiled when I saw an evil-Adachi picture as someone's avatar years and years ago and that sucked so maybe just lay off the spoilery stuff.
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Jul 2, 2020 14:21
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At this point it's not even a spoiler within the franchise itself, that bit of information has been made abundantly clear over multiple different spinoffs and cameos. The plot is actually a bit MORE interesting if you know it, too.
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Jul 2, 2020 14:22
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Infinity Gaia posted:At this point it's not even a spoiler within the franchise itself, that bit of information has been made abundantly clear over multiple different spinoffs and cameos. The plot is actually a bit MORE interesting if you know it, too. Do you think people who are playing P4 for the first time would have seen the spinoffs and the cameos?
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Jul 2, 2020 14:25
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Infinity Gaia posted:At this point it's not even a spoiler within the franchise itself, that bit of information has been made abundantly clear over multiple different spinoffs and cameos. The plot is actually a bit MORE interesting if you know it, too. Yea if you're a PC player like me who is coming to Persona for the first time you're totally in the dark about anything but I still think what we've said above would make it very hard to work out the spoiler without already knowing it. Now people have kicked up a fuss though and pointed out it's a spoiler it actually is one but it definitely wasn't before. I also forgot to say that I feel like the Persona controls were pretty annoying. It's nice that you can control everything with one hand but it's weird that Tab is the menu, F is the "submenu" and (the most annoying part) you've gotta use Q and E to move the camera instead of using the mouse. It makes controlling in dungeons a right arse.
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Jul 2, 2020 14:59
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Zereth posted:Good luck not loving it up if you're not following a canned build, though. Ya PoE is fun up to a point where you can just wing it then if you don't have optimal builds you can't clear any dungeons solo, also the economy in the game requires it's own guide to understand. It's a really great package for being f2p. Even though it seems like a lot is happening you can play most of the game while just watching something else as most of it is just muscle memory spamming abilities in a simple sequence.
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Jul 2, 2020 15:02
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multijoe posted:The real bastard of P4's true ending path was choosing the right dialogue choice in the hospital with Namatame, which doesn't make it clear at all that the 'we can't kill him' option actually means 'let's give up and go home' What scares me with that is that it is possible to start a new game after that and delete your saved game. I kept thinking "what if someone actually thought that was the ending, or thought it briefly but reconsidered and it's too late?"
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Jul 2, 2020 17:06
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punk rebel ecks posted:What scares me with that is that it is possible to start a new game after that and delete your saved game. I kept thinking "what if someone actually thought that was the ending, or thought it briefly but reconsidered and it's too late?" I had a friend who actually did this. Needless to say he never saw the true ending after that.
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Jul 2, 2020 17:15
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Taear posted:Especially the dialogue with the lady at the petrol station where she kept ending it and I had to keep talking to her again. I guess i can't really tell what this would feel like to a new player anyway so dunno what this whole argument is worth. probably nothing.
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Jul 2, 2020 18:02
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Zerilan posted:So basically what P5 does? Yep. My love for P4 is matched only by my hate for P5. You won't hear me say more than a few kind words about that game. It was great how the game's story gave us an antagonist who was directly responsible for ruining most of our heroes' lives and then concentrated our enmity on taking him down. Then we did that and it gave us a cup to fight. The only modern Persona with a good, cathartic final boss was P3. And P2 was better than any of 'em because it understood that that the final boss should be built up so when you finally pound them into the ground, it's immensely satisfying. But yeah, P4 and P5 have that same weakness but P4 does everything else better IMO.
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Jul 2, 2020 20:37
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persona 4... sure has an aesthetic that's easier to enjoy when you discard a lot of the meat of its writing than p5 and yet it still has some of the least funny comedy scenes i've ever seen in a jrpg so i can't even say it extends that far
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Jul 2, 2020 20:52
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I'm going through p4g after playing all of p5(not royal) and having played maybe 5 hours of P3:FES before losing my save. It's pretty fun so far. I really loved the aethestic and gameplay of p5 but everytime I think more about the story/writing in p5 the less I like it in hindsight. Have also never played or even really seen any non-persona SMT.
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Jul 2, 2020 21:00
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RottenK posted:I'm very late to the party but I finally started playing Digimon Story: Cyber Sleuth and im having a pretty fun time with it. Starting on Hard was probably a bad idea because either i hosed something up or the very beginning of the game isn't tuned for it very well because i died in what seems to be the tutorial sequence and then had to sit through a bunch of dialogue again, but apart from that it's going well. It's not tuned well at all for hard difficulty. The console versions have a flat 2x stat multiplier while the PC version got patched so it's only 1.5x
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Jul 2, 2020 21:16
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NikkolasKing posted:Yep. My love for P4 is matched only by my hate for P5. You won't hear me say more than a few kind words about that game. You can criticize P5 for a lot of things but criticizing it for this misses one of the core ideas of P5 that actually are relevant and honestly a big chunk of the whole game. The real enemy in P5 wasn't the evil organization. It was the collective apathy of people. That is specifically the true thing that allowed the situation to thrive because it was built entirely on the fact that people would let these situations go unaddressed or justify them to themselves which is basically the most relevant real-world theme Persona 5 actually has. The entire game is about building up people so that they are willing to take action and confront injustices instead of merely standing passively by and thus it makes sense that the overarching threat isn't just one really mean dude, but rather the attitude that allowed a mean lovely politician to take power. Persona 5 is fairly conservative and status-quoy so it tends to focus its goals on improving things without breaking the system but even within that the major focus is on breaking people's apathy for the world. All the Confidants are people who have given up and retreated inwards (as are most of the main cast when you first meet them) and your eventual successes are by helping them find ways to succeed despite the lovely causes of society. And in turn the ending focuses on the idea how they help you both in the Metaphorical Magical Friendship Speech way and in the literally campaigning for you way. Persona 5 Royal expands on this by extending the ending to a story about someone who genuinely does want to do good in the world but is focused on quick easy solutions rather than confronting the actual difficult world. Ending Persona 5 with "And then you beat up the bad politician" would have sucked because literally every element of the story up until that point is focused on the idea that literally the only reason he is able to succeed is because people are either too apathetic or too broken down to confront blatant cruelties in their midst, and the true method of success ends up being built on being willing to confront those cruelties in a giant magical metaphorical way. Persona 5 is hurt by the conservative elements because it loving sucks that a story with those themes also comes from the same people who can't help but be loving weird about gender and sexuality, nor is it free from criticism because it does consider confronting injustice from within the system as a potentially valid method of improving the world, but that is a problem with the writer's attitudes and personality, not the core idea that placing the blame on a single small group of individuals rather than the society that lets them flourish without conflict is a bad idea. Like honestly the segment where you defeat the politician and he admits his crimes and the majority of people just shrug it off or assume he was misquoted or was just having a bad day and continue to support him is immensely loving relevant in this day and age. Like the neon blaring AMERICAN POLITICS is true but it's even true in countries across the world where that is an ongoing situation on a regular basis, not just a wacky JRPG plot twist. Likewise the idea that the path to change is organizing and standing up against the injustice society rather than focusing on just a single lovely politician is superbly relevant in this day and age where we are at a very real risk of people putting the blame on a single lovely politician and losing their will to organize when they are hopefully gone. Like yeah, Persona 5 does the same thing as all Persona games and makes the final boss the embodiment of the overaching themes as embodied by some variation of godlike creature but that isn't necessarily a flaw as pertty much every Persona game isn't about an individual bad person but society as a whole. This is true even of Persona 1 and Persona 2. Like Great Father is quite literally a mashed together version of the many issues the protagonists have as a party. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Jul 2, 2020 |
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Jul 2, 2020 21:18
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NikkolasKing posted:Yep. My love for P4 is matched only by my hate for P5. You won't hear me say more than a few kind words about that game. Never played Persona 2 but Persona 3 definitely has the most satisfying final boss. To the point I was even doubting that you could even beat it. There was something so intimidating to it's build up. ImpAtom posted:Stuff. Good post. Never thought of it that way before. Man I really would like to see Persona 5 written by the Disco Elysium people. punk rebel ecks fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Jul 2, 2020 |
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Jul 2, 2020 21:19
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persona 5 but chapo is in it doesnt sound much better tbh
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Jul 2, 2020 21:25
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The ideas behind cup arc fit the themes the game was trying to go for but the execution felt off the mark and I agree that it just didn't feel satisfying at all compared to the preceding arc. That I couldn't have Ryuji as a romance option was also a terrible sin. Evrart Claire fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Jul 2, 2020 |
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Jul 2, 2020 21:27
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Zerilan posted:The ideas behind cup arc fit the themes the game was trying to go for but the execution felt off the mark and I agree that it just didn't feel satisfying at all compared to the preceding arc. I can understand preferring a more embodied boss but I admit that the Persona series is one of the few cases where I really feel like the giant embodiment of Themes works well for me because Persona games are rarely very personal. I kind of wish they'd vary the exact formula up a bit but I also admit I am 100% a sucker for "all the people who aided along the way come together to aid you" sequences. That said I think P5 does benefit from its Royal extended ending largely because it goes beyond that and into something more personal. It is tacked on after the climax most obviously which can feel a bit exhausting but I also think the metaphorical story of "You can't rely on magic powers to do better in the world, you need to do it yourself" is a good way to close out the story because at the end of the day "rely on your magic powers" muddles the message somewhat which was a serious problem in P5 classic. Also you will get no disagreement from me on the Ryuji angle and also I will stand pretty firm by the idea that making a good chunk of the female adult cast pedophiles is lovely.
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Jul 2, 2020 21:37
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Endorph posted:persona 5 but chapo is in it doesnt sound much better tbh You have a point.
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Jul 2, 2020 21:51
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Morpheus posted:Do you think people who are playing P4 for the first time would have seen the spinoffs and the cameos? i played persona 3, i played persona 5, and i even played the personian odysseys, but i missed out on p4 
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Jul 2, 2020 21:55
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ImpAtom posted:You can criticize P5 for a lot of things but criticizing it for this misses one of the core ideas of P5 that actually are relevant and honestly a big chunk of the whole game. You're right that every Persona - and every SMT, really - ends with something like this. And it's because most Atlus game have the same message. Humans must stand on their own. Individualism but not selfishness. But the point is, Nyarly was the enemy of P2. When you fought him, you felt like you were finally confronting the evil of the game. It's no different in its main message than any other Persona game but it still focused the narrative all around the supernatural evil so that when we finally beat his face into the ground, we were very happy. P4 and P5 focus all their attention on crafting a very human villain and then at the end are like "SURPRISE" with the supernatural final boss. Now lots of folks will say there's plenty of foreshadowing about this, especially in P5, but the whole conspiracy that is at the heart of P5 where it can't stop vomiting the same exposition at us over and over again, was what grabbed my attention. The game made sure i cared about that and felt that proper climactic feeling when we took down the focus of all our built up anger. I just don't see why they can't do the same thing P2 did. You can explore all the same stuff you mentioned but still properly build up the final boss so that when we face them it brings catharsis.
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Jul 2, 2020 21:57
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:It's not tuned well at all for hard difficulty. The console versions have a flat 2x stat multiplier while the PC version got patched so it's only 1.5x The difficulty doesn't really bother me after the very beginning, it was terrible to start with hard mode on but after putting together a team of a few mons with some levels on them i feel like im more or less keeping up with the curve. I'll probably have to do some extra grinding if i ever run into a boss without having any characters that counter its type and element, but im trying to maintain a diverse roster so it shouldn't be too much of a problem, i hope.
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Jul 2, 2020 21:59
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Endorph posted:persona 5 but chapo is in it doesnt sound much better tbh i feel like this is unfair to disco elysium, which is legit a cool and well written RPG and not chapo: the game (thank god) not sure if i want the devs to make persona though, that really doesn't feels like a good fit, even if the result would probably be, if nothing else, fascinating
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Jul 2, 2020 22:02
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:It's not tuned well at all for hard difficulty. The console versions have a flat 2x stat multiplier while the PC version got patched so it's only 1.5x does cyber sleuth let you get away with using lower-tier evolutions or do they have level/stat caps that make them unusable after a certain point like pokemon?
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Jul 2, 2020 22:02
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The White Dragon posted:does cyber sleuth let you get away with using lower-tier evolutions or do they have level/stat caps that make them unusable after a certain point like pokemon? repeatedly evolving and de-evolving the same digimon raises it's level cap every time. dunno if there's anything stopping you from maxing the level cap this way, reaching the final evolution just to learn the inheritable skills and then de-evolving back to the form you like. I guess you'll miss out on the powerful innate skill of the higher tier form
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Jul 2, 2020 22:05
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The White Dragon posted:does cyber sleuth let you get away with using lower-tier evolutions or do they have level/stat caps that make them unusable after a certain point like pokemon? You can raise the level cap like RottenK said, but lower tier digimon will always be worse than higher tier one just due to less stat gain and lower total stats.
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Jul 2, 2020 22:13
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The White Dragon posted:does cyber sleuth let you get away with using lower-tier evolutions or do they have level/stat caps that make them unusable after a certain point like pokemon? The Complete Edition adds some Rookie and Champion-tier mons with incredibly busted special skills.
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Jul 2, 2020 22:16
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