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nessin posted:That's a poor analogy, because you're comparing an entire industry to a genre of another industry. Not to mention Tolkien has had a mass market revitalization due to the movies. Yeah, I'd expect a journalist who is focused or interested in RPGs to know about Ultima, and ideally any journalist that would be discussing Project E would have that background. However, this is the real world and the gaming industry goes beyond just RPGs. That's dumb. If someone is a gaming journalist you would think they would be familiar with it's most important works. Imagine if a film critic had never heard of Stanley Kubrick vegaji posted:I think you guys are overrating Ultima's reputation a bit. For us who were raised in the 80s or 90s playing a ton of RPGs, Ultima/Dragon Quest/Final Fantasy were the foundation with stuff like Romancing Saga and Breath of Fire on the relative periphery. Now it's completely different--do you think that even close to half of game reviewers have ever played a Dragon Quest game outside of the new DS stuff, let alone a BoF or SaGa game? In the same way, a lot of people who review FPS games might not know about Wolfenstein 3D. I think you're overrating the historical video game knowledge needed to be a game reviewer. What the hell kind of lovely standard is this? In any other field, people writing on a subject are expected to know that subject with a reasonable amount of depth. No wonder gaming journalism is a joke. Amethyst fucked around with this message at 06:15 on May 18, 2012 |
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May 18, 2012 06:10
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TurnipFritter posted:But why? What a completely arbitrary and meaningless thing to say. "I'm content to swallow sub-standard coverage from people who don't know what they are talking about. Basically, if journalists read me PR releases, I'm good." Do you think cinema is a static medium that suffers from having a highly knowledgeable body of criticism?
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May 18, 2012 06:18
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nessin posted:Yeah, but that isn't an answer to anything. If you should know about Ultima to cover RPGs, then why shouldn't a company talk to someone who doesn't know about Ultima but does cover an RPG? Or, conversely, if everyone covering RPGs should know about Ultima then why don't they? The only answer to that has been "game journalism has gone to hell", but that is an excuse because knowledge of indirect historial events is not a requirement to detail, discuss, or provide general coverage of a product in any industry. This isn't a matter of a company choosing to talk to an individual or not. It's about a bunch of lazy publications who are content to publish any old garbage, and an audience that isn't nearly critical enough to call them on it. Having writers that don't know what they are talking about is one problem of many, but it's a big one. Eurogamer is the only mainstream commercial gaming publication I can think of that is worth anything whatsoever.
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May 18, 2012 06:23
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Defiance Industries posted:If I am a football columnist, who writes on just football, how much do I need to know about professional snowboarders? We are literally talking about a journalist who interviewed an RPG developer you dunce.
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May 18, 2012 06:24
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TurnipFritter posted:What I'm saying is I don't expect everyone who talks about movies to have sat through Birth of a Nation or Battleship Potemkin. Anyone who gets paid to write about movies sure as poo poo better know about those, otherwise they will be writing garbage.
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May 18, 2012 06:24
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TurnipFritter posted:And why is that? Do they have to reference those two films in every piece of writing they do? The Birth of a Nation and Battleship Potempkin. The two films that pioneered modern narrative and editing techniques, respectively. Meh, unimportant. Just hire bobby he likes those matrix flicks.
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May 18, 2012 06:28
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MARTIN SCORSESSE: As a child, I remember going to see films with my grandmother. I remember when I first saw the battleship potempkin, and I lost myself, I was there, in the moment, with- JOHNNY GAME JOURNALIST: Wait, wait - what movie? I've not seen that one was it at canne this year?
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May 18, 2012 06:30
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pw pw pw posted:Quick- without comparing video games to another form of media, explain how playing ultima makes any shred of difference to a review of skyrim. It puts the game in a historical context. Ultima was an open world rpg. The VERY FIRST open world rpg. Many of the structural elements in skyrim were directly influenced by Ultima. With knowledge of this, and rest of the 30 year historical lineage of RPGs that culminated in the release of Skyrim, you can evaluate what Skyrim contributes to the genre, how well it evolves existing concepts, how it could change the rpg landscape etc. Or, you can just talk about the cool kills and graphics I guess. The fact that you are a poster on a video game forum and need this poo poo explained to you demonstrates why people look down on gamers. This kind of discussion would never happen in a film, general art, or even a sports discussion board.
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May 18, 2012 06:35
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nessin posted:And that has what to do with knowing about Ultima? So if a games journalist covers an RPG and knows about Ultima their article will suddenly be better? Sweet, what else can we apply that type of logic to? Heh, knowlege of a subject could lead to better writing on a subject? What planet are we on, DUMB ILLOGIC WORLD?! You are a simpleton.
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May 18, 2012 06:37
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Insults on a web forum? Well I never. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 18, 2012 06:42
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pw pw pw posted:I don't agree with that though. I had never played a beat-em-up before battletoads, but I could still recognize bullshit when I saw it. Your opinion is perfectly valid, however If you wrote an article about battle toads and why it's bullshit, it wouldn't be as good as one from a guy who has a great wealth of knowledge about the genre and it's history.
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May 18, 2012 06:44
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Megaflare posted:Jesus christ, step away from your keyboard and breathe. Shut up you meta loving bore Bongo Bill posted:Ten years isn't that long. There's nothing wrong with a consumer or fan not remembering a game from that long ago, but if your job requires you to know about RPGs, then not knowing what Ultima is is an indication that you're bad at your job. It seems to me that many gamers don't just accept consumer recommendation/PR tracts in place of actual journalism - they expect it.
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May 18, 2012 06:49
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Yes, a perfect excuse to act like a petulant child.
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nessin posted:Do you even realize what you've said here? You're already breaking out of the "Ultima" mold and using it as an example instead of hard line in the sand. How much further do we have to argue over this before you take another step back? I actually agree with you that you should know something about RPGs, but it doesn't have to be the classics. and it certainly doesn't have to be Ultima. Not knowing about any RPG in existence is proof you shouldn't be doing the job, not knowing about Ultima is just a small aberation. An opinion without any knowledge behind it is, by definition, a stupid opinion, and an opinion not worth hearing.
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May 18, 2012 06:56
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pw pw pw posted:If only there were thousands of other rpg's you might be well-equipped to compare a new title to. It sure sucks for rpg fans that the genre died with ultima 13 years ago. Good job on being proudly and willfully ignorant about the open world RPG that literally invented the genre I guess.
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May 18, 2012 07:12
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Cityinthesea posted:I know nothing about Ultima except for the name and that Lord British made himself a character in the game (those were those games, right?). Why the gently caress would I automatically do a better write up against someone who hasn't actually heard of it? I only heard about it like 3 years ago mind you. Then why is he writing about a pc game? That interview is specifically about Ultima VII's influence on Divine Divinity. And I would expect all paid video game journalists to have knowledge of both Earthbound and Ultima, yes.
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May 18, 2012 07:18
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pw pw pw posted:I know plenty about ultima, you presumptuous rear end, I disagree with your opinion that video game reviewers need to be as deeply entrenched in history as a film critic because film critics rarely have to review films about elf bowling and matching cakes. Sorry it makes you feel old to think that ultima is no longer relevant to modern games journalism. So why do you accept ignorance on the part of paid journalists? It is a poor standard for the media you consume. Do you simply not accept that knowledge of a subject leads to more interesting and meaningful writing on the subject?
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May 18, 2012 07:25
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TurnipFritter posted:Because sometimes people are assigned jobs that are outside of their sphere of interest or expertise. It happens. quote:While talking about Ultima VII, it unfortunately dawned on me again that I’m really not that young anymore. Apparently half the journalists had never played any of the Ultima games, and several of them had never even heard about them. Not very surprising considering the quality of work these idiots pump out.
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May 18, 2012 07:45
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