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So, I was directed here by scorpiobean from the Psych thread in TV/IV (of all places). I just started reffing with NHRD and figured I'd check in. We seem to be short on carry over of skating refs from last year, so for our first scrimmage of the season, and the third bout I've seen, I was one of the inside pack refs. Holy hell, that is chaos on wheels. I've been studying the rules, but god drat, there's so much going on at once. Earlier this week my name was officially submitted to twoevils: Vincent Van GoToTheBox. So, anyway, I scanned the thread for NHRD people and didn't come across any that I recognized. That is all.
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Feb 4, 2011 04:55
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I ordered zebra skates tonight. Right foot black-on-white, left foot white-on-black. 126 boot with Magnum White plates. Should be a very nice upgrade from my R3s.
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Feb 5, 2011 07:55
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WindyMan posted:The turn-around toe stop is a very bad way to learn how to stop, in my opinion. First of all, it assumes you have toe stops on in the first place, which are crutches that inexperienced skaters rely on to accelerate and slow down. Secondly, if you're in the middle of a pack and you need to come a dead stop in a hurry, do you really want to turn your back to do it? Turning toe stops and then sprinting off in the other direction look so awesome, though.
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Feb 6, 2011 17:52
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I reffed a scrimmage in Maine tonight and called my first major! I am so happy. I sent someone to the box.
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Feb 18, 2011 05:56
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Dominion posted:I have a question about back blocking vs tripping. Take the following situation: If I saw that, I would call it as a back block on Red as the initiator, but I'm still new to officiating. By the rules, it very well could be that both should be assessed majors. If you go by impact, though, since Red should get called off to the box for her back block, the low block doesn't impact her position (though it does still cause her to fall, which is specifically called out in the rules). There's a hierarchy of penalties, but given that these are both illegal target zone penalties, one doesn't take precedence over the other (at least from the hierarchy). edit: Oh, hey, there's another page here. edit: Reading the above, I forgot about the falling small provision. carticket fucked around with this message at 04:34 on Feb 19, 2011 |
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Feb 19, 2011 04:31
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Ria posted:Pretty much. Or perhaps some of us are WFTDA plants that want to confuse the issue, cloud the public's ideas, and make people stop guessing and wait until a new rule set comes out... If I were a plant, I would be bound by an NDA not to reveal whether or not I am a plant.
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Feb 25, 2011 06:46
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overthefalls posted:http://wftda.com/news/3-1-11-ap-grads If you want to get your level 2 certification, wait until you can pass all the stuff you need to pass. If you get your level 1, you are locked into it for a year before you can graduate to level 2.
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Mar 2, 2011 06:42
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So, I got to jam ref last night for the first time. It was during our tryouts which they ran without the ability for the lead jammer to call off the jam. It was a lot of fun, though. 
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Mar 5, 2011 03:41
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Dominion posted:For tryouts, it's more important to watch people skate for two minutes than it is to use strategic jam calls or clock management. This. We did it again tonight, but we didn't have jam refs. Just IPR and OPR, and we were all calling the penalties we saw. I'm not sure if it was just a messy scrimmage, or if I am really getting that much better, but I was calling stuff left and right and seeing way more than I have in the past.
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Mar 8, 2011 05:50
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Aericina posted:I caught this video this morning, and what a great way to stop the idiotic dancing at the line after the jam whistle blows. This video is hilarious.
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Mar 9, 2011 01:58
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Spookydonut posted:Misconduct. Unless they are in an upright and skating position it's unsafe to hit them. I hate slow derby because as a pack ref, it usually means I need to stop and turn around to face the pack, which I haven't yet mastered. I haven't seen it come up that often.
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Mar 9, 2011 05:06
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Spookydonut posted:So what you actually hate is that you haven't yet mastered backwards skating transitions. Exactly. I am getting better at it, but I'm still stumbling a high percentage of the time.
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Mar 9, 2011 05:38
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OrpheusFaust posted:You're forgetting that the other four blockers can move forward, which I believe would mean they are setting the pace of the pack but I'm not exactly sure. They keep moving forward until they get a no pack situation from the refs, which forces the other team to move forward. I had a post here, but upon checking the rules, there is a special case for one team skating away from the other at the start of the jam. As soon as a no pack situation is created, the jammer start whistle goes off, and no penalties are assigned. Both teams then need to reform the pack. So, based on my reading, one team could jump ahead of the pivot line ten feet to destroy the pack, thus starting the jammers, then immediately stop and back up a little. Backing up would reform the pack and avoid penalties for not immediately attempting to reform the pack.
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Mar 10, 2011 04:21
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WindyMan posted:What if the four-blocker team wants to control the rear of the pack? That's a very important place to be at the start of a jam, you know. I don't really get into strategy on the referee side of things. Their advantage is the fact that they're on the field 4-2, though. If they want to get the jam started, force the no pack, and let the jammers through as a no pack (probably resulting in a penalty for a skater on each team), or get it started and then reform the pack. It sounds like your complaint is that a team up two skaters can't control the start of the jammers, the speed of the pack, and have their choice of front/rear control in the pack all at the same time. I think giving up rear control of the pack for the clearing pass is a fair trade for getting the jammers started on your terms. If you're up two skaters, you should be able to get positioned wherever you want on pretty short order in time for the scoring passes.
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Mar 10, 2011 05:05
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I'm going to be reffing my first bout tomorrow in Yonkers. Is anyone from here going there?
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Mar 18, 2011 12:55
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Ria posted:I wish! I love watching other leagues. Are you with Lehigh Valley? The first bout I watched was the season closer last year in Manchester with NHRD going up against Lehigh Valley. I think we're heading down that way sometime this year. Aericina, I find jam reffing easier for me. I think concentrating on one person and tracking many things is easier for me than tracking less, but watching far more. carticket fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Mar 19, 2011 |
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Mar 19, 2011 05:08
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Spookydonut posted:If you think jammer refs need to keep track of a lot of things, wait till you head ref. It's crazy and I don't know how I'd do it without all the awesome people in our officiating crew. To me, head reffing doesn't seem like a fun job. It's just IPR but with way more logistics to deal with. I think I'll work my way to JR and then rest there for quite some time.
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Mar 20, 2011 20:43
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WrongWay Feldman posted:Out of curiosity, what do you all use for scoreboarding? My girlfriend recently joined the So Ill Roller Girls (WFTDA apprentice team! Yay!) and I've joined in as the scoreboard guy for home games. Currently, I'm using the one designed by the Carolina Roller Girls (CRG Scoreboard). It's been working out pretty well, especially with the 1.6 update. Suburbia was using something different than either of those. I believe Boston uses the CRG one, or something really close to it.
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Mar 21, 2011 04:33
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So, apparently Derbytron says NHRD's schedule is the 3rd strongest of what they have listed. I don't really know what this means at all, but it sounds pretty cool.
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Mar 23, 2011 03:06
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WindyMan posted:If all the blockers from Team X—regardless of how many blockers they have—can trap one player from Team O, it doesn't matter what the other skaters on Team O do. That group of all of the Xs and the one O is the pack. Period. Yeah, skaters from the wall may get a penalty for being a little too adventurous with their blocks after they wall someone. But if they're a good team and don't take a penalty, what much else can Team O do to counter that? The three skaters from Team O that are up ahead can come back into the pack and assist their blocker that is trapped. There isn't much of a reason for them to stay up ahead of the pack. They'll risk OOP penalties when the opposing jammer comes around, and because the pack is in the back with Team X, they don't control the speed. So, if they trap one and pull the pack back and slow it down, the three up front should drop back and break their blocker out if they're looking to speed up the pack. edit: Also, my favorite pack make up is 1-1. When I reffed for Suburbia vs NHRD, I ended up with that situation and it was a total WTF moment. I don't know why it happened, but Team X skated away off the front, Team O hung back, and they each left one blocker in the middle making the two-player pack.
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Mar 29, 2011 04:14
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WindyMan posted:Oh, that makes a lot more sense. I thought that skaters of both teams had to be within 20 feet to form the pack. I guess that's the difference between being "in the pack" and "in play," right? So if a team loses a blocker to a penalty during a power jam (for their team), the other team could race the pack as fast as they wanted with no possible recourse from the other team. They might even be able to rack up some lap penalties on the team that is down a skater. If the team who has a power jam has more blockers than the other team at the time, they could stop the pack dead. The other team has to either hang around the 20 feet around them or face out of play penalties. If you don't require a skater from each team, then the team with more blockers on the track gains complete control of the pack. There are so many potential loopholes here that it isn't even funny. In other news, I went to a podiatrist today and they tell me I have sesamoiditis, which is an inflammation of the tendon surrounding one of the sesamoid bones in the ball of your foot. In other words, it hurts a lot when I skate and it will continue to get worse until the sesamoid fractures. So, they've got my foot taped up right now and I need to keep it dry for 72 hours (which will make showers fun). I'm hoping I won't have this problem when my new skates finally arrive (126 boot vs R3 boot).
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Mar 30, 2011 02:59
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The way I see it, control of the pack would default to the team with the most blockers rather than via strategy. We will probably not agree on this point.
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Mar 30, 2011 04:54
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I didn't ignore your points. It is opinion, though. You came up with scenarios that specifically demonstrate why you think the current rules are bad and earlier I came up with scenarios that specifically demonstrate why your proposed rule change would be bad. I consider the current rules to be "more fair", and you don't. This is why I made the short post. It's a subjective judgement, not objective, and we're not going to agree on it, so it isn't worth my time to try to convince you of what I think. I don't think it's worth your time to read what I'd write, either.
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Mar 30, 2011 14:32
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Ria posted:Anyway, so, snark aside, I still love this sport. I second this.
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Mar 30, 2011 20:22
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Has anyone in here skated in Bont quad boots or a full custom fit Riedell? My 126's are still on their way, but with my foot problems and the podiatrist likely telling me that I need orthotics on Tuesday, I've been considering getting either a full custom Riedell (probably 965) or a full custom Bont Quad Racer Carbon (heat moldable). The cost of orthotics would be $300-$400 on it's own (insurance probably won't cover), so I figure $500 for a full custom boot would be nicer than spending $300-$400 on a custom orthotic that would only ever fit in a size 12 126.
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Apr 7, 2011 03:09
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ODC posted:Custom orthotics will fit pretty much any shoe of a certain size. Unless you're being promised something that will be molded to a particular shoe or skate. I was more looking to avoid the cost of the orthotics by getting a full custom boot instead. The podiatrist said that they would need to take my skates to get the orthotic fit to the boot as well, and she specifically said it wouldn't fit in anything else. I've had trouble getting insoles that fit in my R3's properly, but my R3's are crap and just about a whole size too big. Regardless of that, most commercial insoles' arches don't mate up with the boot properly and result in a large blister near the top of my arch.
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Apr 8, 2011 06:19
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Spookydonut posted:http://wftda.com/news/wftda-no-minors-beta-testing If you see something that you think may have been a major but know it was a minor, call it a minor. If you see something you think may have been a minor, don't call it. If you see something that may have been a major, but you're not sure it was actually a penalty, don't call it. In other words, you should only be calling penalties you can stand behind and say "yes, I saw this happen and it was a major" or "yes, I saw this happen and it was a minor." You should not downgrade somethin you thought might be a major to a minor because you're not sure it was a major unless you're sure it was a minor.
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Apr 8, 2011 17:52
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Spookydonut posted:I don't mean downgrading the call, I mean when you slot it into your scale of impact (every referee should have a scale), if it doesn't meet the criteria for a particular penalty. Good. I thought you were suggesting that uncertainty meant downgrade rather uncertainty means don't call it. Only call what you know happened and are certain about. We agree.
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Apr 8, 2011 21:44
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WindyMan posted:I fear I may have gone a bit overboard with this, but consider this a preliminary white paper on the rules of roller derby in general, not just the WFTDA: I didn't read most of it. I'm just going to admit that right now. I read the intro, and then saw there was a table of contents, and I just don't care about the topic enough to read all of it. I've read most of your posts on the subject here, though. I'm not trying to be an rear end about it, but there's just way too much there. I did read chapter 5, though. I'm not going to argue that one team removing themselves from play to allow their jammer to score five points uncontested is lame, and the fact that only one major would be assessed for that doesn't help. There are ways to solve it other than fundamentally changing how the pack is defined. Add some hysteresis on it (I would love this, when you have a split pack that is right on the edge of 10 feet and keeps bouncing in and out of no pack): the pack continues to exist for a few seconds after what would be destruction under the current rules. All players that were part of the pack at the time it would have been destroyed continue to make up the pack for 5 seconds (just throwing a number out there). When this time is up, immediately assign out of play/pack destruction penalties to the skater most responsible. Add some sort of no pack warning like out of play warnings so that the refs would indicate that the pack is about to cease to exist. This basically takes the grace period that was granted before a failure to reform penalty is assigned and turns it into a grace period before the pack is considered destroyed. Another that would help in some scenarios: remove boundaries from the equation. If you have a 3-1 pack and they knock the 1 blocker out of bounds, she is still part of the pack as long as she is within 10 feet and upright/skating/stepping/etc. This would change how the scenario would play out currently, where the blocker would be able to re-enter immediately without a cut (since everyone else is out of play). She would be forced to re-enter behind the blocker that knocked her out (and anyone else she may have passed) or face a track cut penalty. To get around knee-down starts, just add a rule that causes any blocker out of play at the start of the jam to return to bench. This would need to be worded carefully, but the Rules committee is smart, and I'm sure they could figure it out. The team that wants to start the jam would still be able to by skating away from the pivot line, forcing a no pack. At that point, they'd stop, and the skaters behind the line would be forced to move up. They get the jam started, but it moves the action far enough forward from the jam line that the pack should be reformed by the time the jammer gets there and she doesn't get a free pass to lead jammer. One other thing from your summary, rules with gray areas in them are bad. You state that you like the OSDA rules because they're simple and state what you can do and what you can't do. If you want competitive legitimacy, in my mind, you can't have gray areas, otherwise you need to start tracking precedent to ensure fair enforcement in the gray area. Gray area lets officials give the game their own slant, and each official may be different.
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Apr 9, 2011 05:47
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WindyMan posted:For the refs in the thread, please at least check out section 8 and tell me what you think of it. Thanks. Regarding jammers moving before the jammer start whistle: I've wondered why you don't see this more often, but I think the issue is timing. When the 2008 Volvo Ocean Race launched the Boston to Ireland leg, the start was at a specific time. The teams were running loops hoping to have the timing just right so that they're cruising across the start line just as the race starts. If they're too early, they start way back because they have to loop around, too late and you're just back in natural position behind the leaders. Jammers would have the same issue. If they start to early, they'll have to come to a stop or risk false start penalties. If the jammer whistle goes early, then they're going to be starting behind the other jammer (albeit likely with more speed). One last minor note on this: Taking a knee after the jam start whistle would be illegal destruction of the pack, if I recall. It is a different scenario than already being on one's knee at the jam start whistle. As for the rest of it, I've seen most of it before in your posts here, so I won't go into a long rehash of things I've written before, but I think you are making a false conclusion because a team can take a knee to force a jam start the pack definition should be changed to just be the largest group of skaters of any team. I completely agree that something should be changed, though, just not in agreement over what should be changed or what it should be changed to. Also, one new point that I don't think I've brought up before. If this is supposed to be about fans getting exciting games and whatnot, changing the pack definition as you suggest would be an ultimate boon to slow starts. Do you have four skaters and your jammer in the box? The other team would have to destroy the pack to start their jammer. If you happen to have one more blocker than them, you can perch behind the pivot line as long as you want, and until they get another blocker out of the box so they have even numbers, they would have no way to start the jammer (and even then, it would be via the same rule that allows a knee-down start to occur).
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Apr 9, 2011 07:00
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Welp, today is our first bout of the season for the home teams and it looks like I pretty well killed the thread with that last post.
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Apr 16, 2011 13:57
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I finally got my custom skates today! This is the photo The Bruised Boutique took. They threw on a set of the black Heartless wheels since I had already picked up the wheels I ordered with the skates. I'm regretting getting the Mojos because they look pretty rad with the Heartless wheels. 126 boot, Magnum White DA45 plates. I didn't realize the DA45 trucks were going to be black, continuing the black/white look. I wish I had gone solid black and solid white, though. I need to go back Friday and pick up the cut-away toe stops, though. The front wheels were rubbing on the stock stops tonight during tight turns.
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Apr 28, 2011 05:11
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Popoi posted:After watching Cincinnati vs Indianapolis tonight, I'm starting to really dislike no-pack starts. Once in a while is ok, but it was getting to be like every third jam at times, and I think four in a row once or twice. As a ref, I completely agree. The rules put forth a method for starting the jam in the event one team is lagging, and that's to skate away from the line, and once you're 10 feet away, the jammers will start. This will not be punished as destruction on the pack, and it keeps the pace of the game faster than fighting a slow start with knee-downs.
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May 1, 2011 04:01
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downtimejesus posted:Can't wait to get my poo poo pushed in by the Shock Exchange tomorrow, just saying. I reffed with Jimmy Rage earlier this year when we traveled to Suburbia. He is super high-energy. Good luck. Tomorrow I jam ref for the first time in a bout, and hope to not get my poo poo pushed in by anyone. edit: poo poo pushed in, but only because jammers go way faster when they're not on our super slippery floor and in a real bout compared to a scrimmage. Also, I'm glad I wasn't the other JR who go taken out by his jammer. carticket fucked around with this message at 05:05 on May 8, 2011 |
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May 7, 2011 07:22
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WindyMan, one of your epics, the one on pack non-starts, is getting passed around my league on Facebook. I just thought you might appreciate knowing that.
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May 11, 2011 05:04
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WindyMan posted:I do, thank you. Although, I would love to know what people are saying. If you don't mind, could you do a little spying and report back on the general idea of what they think about it? I've gotten little feedback directly from skaters, so it would be helpful to get an insight into what they think. Mostly just URL shares. I'll go back and see if there are any comments. Also, cheer for the GateKeepers for me. I've got a friend on that team.
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May 11, 2011 17:53
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I got to sit in the stands and sit and watch my first roller derby bout ever yesterday. Seriously... I've always either been doing photography, actively reffing, or inactively reffing (half of a double header, not allowed to cheer) every other one. Boston vs. KC (and the home game before). I have to say, this sport is tons of fun to watch! (also tons of fun to ref).
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May 15, 2011 15:39
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WindyMan posted:Probably because without putting more space between the jammers and the blockers at the start, things would be more of a mess. Although putting a half-lap bewteen them at the start would be too extreme, I think. With everyone trying to figure out how to simplify the rules, adding a line to the track is a step in the wrong direction. I've never seen a bout using rules with a one-whistle start, but then again I only ref games under the WFTDA ruleset, and I've only seen about 5 bouts that I haven't reffed, so I can't really comment on how one whistle would be. It certainly makes officiating easier, and solves a number of the start loopholes. Something you might like, WindyMan, is a new form of dumb-start. Due to a clarification that is kind of dumb in my opinion, as a blocker, if you false start behind the jammer line (i.e. a poodle), you are considered to be in front of the rest of the skaters... by a lot. If you move forward from that position, it will become a major false start. So, if you are a blocker and you start behind the jammer line, you have to sit there until the pack catches you. So... what happens if an entire team starts back there. Everyone on that team gets a minor IP penalty, and there's a no pack at the start, so the jammers are released. There will continue to be a no pack situation until the other team comes all the way around. There will not be failure to reform penalties given to the team at the back, as another rules clarification makes it clear that a skater is never compelled to skate clockwise, and that merely maintaining position satisfies making an effort to reform the pack (assuming you are ahead). Apparently this happened at Spring Roll, and I'm really curious to see video. If you've got a power jam, and your blockers are light on minors, you can do this and your jammer may get a few free grand slams before the pack has been reformed. I have a feeling the next WFTDA rules revision is going to have a heavily modified set of rules governing the start of the jam to correct a lot of these loopholes.
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May 17, 2011 04:04
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WindyMan posted:WFTDA would be wise to see what the guys were doing too. If you think women were trying to bend the rules, you should have seen what the men were getting away with. I had a friend on the GateKeepers, and another friend reffing with the NYSE, so I tuned in for the big game. It seemed to me like everyone was pushing the boundaries on elbows/forearms/etc.
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May 17, 2011 11:42
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ODC posted:Tonight's practice was pretty good for everyone but me. We had our first visiting skaters, a male from Thunder City and a woman from PennJersey. Both were super nice and gave us some great feedback. There's an interval program for running called Couch to 5k which I was doing (on foot) for a while before I started up with the practices this year. I think it helped me a lot. Until it started raining all the time in the northeast, I was doing 25+ miles on skates each weekend. By the end of the trip, I'm not going that fast, but when I start out I just push myself hard as long as I can. I did C25k up through 25 minutes of running, though, which helps.
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May 19, 2011 02:09
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