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mewse
May 2, 2006



Makes sense. It closes the loop on the guys that knocked on my door a couple years ago saying my neighbourhood has fiber now, but with suspiciously low speeds

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Coxswain Balls
Jun 3, 2001



College Slice

mediaphage posted:

regular bells been pulling that poo poo forever.

Hey now, Fibe doesn't mean Fiber. What would ever make you think that?

Honestly I'd be happy with symmetric upload in the 300-600 megabit range. DOCSIS 3.1 should be capable of that but I have no idea where Shaw is on their roadmap for that since I left. Their new "Fibre+" plans are just their older FTTN plans with boosted downstream to get people to finish their downloads and get off the shared network ASAP. They're probably benefiting from increased downstream DOCSIS channels with newer hardware to advertise those speeds, but you'd think they'd have at least broken the 50Mbps barrier for upload by now. 1Gbps down and 25Mbps up is just sad at this point.

cowofwar
Jul 30, 2002



Government: Upgrade everyone in these areas to fiber and we will give you money.

Carrier: Okay. *redefines fiber to just be copper. Okay done.

Government: Great, good job.

less than three
Aug 9, 2007




Fallen Rib

Shaw has started the same marketing bullshit as Bell, calling their cable service Fibre+ even though nothing has changed, it's still DOCSIS.

StealthArcher
Jan 10, 2010




Nap Ghost

Yeah, my parents will have better cheaper and actually symmetrical fibre service in the bumfuck zones cause Valley Fibre is apparently genuine.

Meanwhile here i am and the best upload i can get is 20

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

It sucks the availability of plans is so localized, in port coquitlam they have the telus fibre stuff but in actual coquitlam there isn't..

~tricities rivalry intensifies~

Also what the hell shaw 1Gbps down and 25Mbps up? That's just weak.

codo27
Apr 21, 2008

"I dont fully understand football contracts but you can just be outright cut if you're shit right? With no penalties? Hockey needs that."

I Am Marc Bergevin IRL


It's unreal to me how generally good our internet services are on the east coast. We pay through the nose, but that we can get parallel speeds up to a gigabit in old St John's is stupid. Even way out in the sticks we can get gigabit but still only 10mbps up.

Frank Dillinger
May 16, 2007
Jawohl mein herr!


The average citizen doesnít know what an upload is, they just know bigger= better.

slidebite
Nov 6, 2005

Good egg


So it sounds like SpaceX/Starlink has officially filed for a license to provide internet services in Canada.

https://mobilesyrup.com/2020/06/18/...et-rural-areas/

odiv
Jan 12, 2003



I hope at least 50% of the bits they plan on sending are Canadian!

mom and dad fight a lot
Sep 21, 2006

twenty-six characters long


https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/sp...ernet-1.5618918

CBC posted:

Elon Musk's SpaceX has applied to offer high-speed internet to Canadians living in remote areas by beaming it to them via satellites.

Oh man I can't wait to see the mental gymnastics that the big three are going to spout to try and convince us that this is a bad idea.

mewse
May 2, 2006



mom and dad fight a lot posted:

Oh man I can't wait to see the mental gymnastics that the big three are going to spout to try and convince us that this is a bad idea.

The nice thing is they don't have much power to block satellite internet because it doesn't rely on lines in ground, the bad thing is that satellite internet really sucks for latency

w00tmonger
Mar 9, 2011

F-F-FRIDAY NIGHT MOTHERFUCKERS


mom and dad fight a lot posted:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/sp...ernet-1.5618918


Oh man I can't wait to see the mental gymnastics that the big three are going to spout to try and convince us that this is a bad idea.

Rough luck for big 3, but they do have some pretty rough implications for big observatory telescopes to my knowledge

EoRaptor
Sep 13, 2003




mewse posted:

The nice thing is they don't have much power to block satellite internet because it doesn't rely on lines in ground, the bad thing is that satellite internet really sucks for latency

Starlink is committed to sub 100ms latency, and they should be able to do it given the number of satellites and the low altitude they orbit at.

It's not going to compete with fibre or terrestrial point to point wireless, but it should be very good vs LTE or dialup, and that's a big market.

slidebite
Nov 6, 2005

Good egg


Has starlink published what they are shooting for speeds?

Nitr0
Aug 17, 2005

IT'S FREE REAL ESTATE


No, rumours and poo poo over the last 2 years on Twitter ranging from a gig to 100Mb, no mention on pricing, data caps, user terminals, spectrum costs per user, etc.

The government should focus on fixing our archaic licensing fees and allocating more spectrum for smaller isps that work within the communities.

There is no reason all this canít be done on earth, with 100Mb/s connections to everyone, other than the government saying no and allocating more unused spectrum blocks to the big 3.

I literally have all the infrastructure in place right now to give any of our rural customers 100Mb/s uncapped symmetrical wireless. If the government allowed it.

I donít want some USA billionaire to come in with any sort of unfettered internet access to the entire planet. That sounds like a dystopian nightmare. Isnít that the same old story though, people give away all their rights in exchange for porn and Netflix.

It amazes me that all the comments on the CRTC page saying oh please help me allow in starlink itís good for covid blah blah blah. Advocate for your spectrum to be used and any small isp worth a drat can put up a tower and get you amazing internet in the boonies.

Unfortunately all people see is Elon and sats and they think this is the second coming of Christ.

Technology has been here for years people, your governments are the ones restricting it.

Not to mention, this really doesnít impact the big 3 at all. It impacts all the smaller ISP who have been advocating in your smaller communities for 10+ years, playing within the government rules, only to have it taken away because rocket man wants to go to Mars. Stop being brainwashed and focus on the technology, radio-waves arenít some magical technology, advocate open and sharing frequency, just like community fiber networks.

There are systems out there now that will communicate with a central database, determine where you are located, what spectrum is available, then let you broadcast, open up 1000MHz of low band spectrum and watch your internet problems disappear.

At the very least none of this is going to go into effect until the government gives SpaceX the spectrum theyíre using in space, and changes licensing fees. Right now your spectrum use cost is determined based on how much speed you are using, with each sat doing 20Gb/s rumoured, youíd literally be paying the Canadian government billions of dollars per year in licensing for sats that have been launched already. Thereís no way SpaceX pays for that.

Iíve been fighting the government and spectrum use since 2008. If they allow this in, it undermines the entire Industry Canada mantra going back decades.

Nitr0 fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Jun 20, 2020

Chris Knight
Jun 5, 2002

And I'm only saying this because I care.

There are a lot of decaffeinated brands on the market today that are just as tasty as the real thing.



Fun Shoe

mom and dad fight a lot posted:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/sp...ernet-1.5618918


Oh man I can't wait to see the mental gymnastics that the big three are going to spout to try and convince us that this is a bad idea.
It's a bad idea full stop.

Demon_Corsair
Mar 22, 2004

Goodbye stealing souls, hello stealing booty.

mom and dad fight a lot posted:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/sp...ernet-1.5618918


Oh man I can't wait to see the mental gymnastics that the big three are going to spout to try and convince us that this is a bad idea.

Last I heard Musk's plan was to just poo poo up the atmosphere with a ton of cheap satellites to make this internet plan work.

So there are legit reasons to be opposed to this plan.

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

Cat Army


Demon_Corsair posted:

Last I heard Musk's plan was to just poo poo up the atmosphere with a ton of cheap satellites to make this internet plan work.

So there are legit reasons to be opposed to this plan.

cheap satellites are a good thing. that's kinda the whole reason why SpaceX has succeeded - they can do the job cheaper and better than entrenched corporate interests. I see no reason why the same won't be true for Canadian ISPs.


twenty years down the line we'll all be bitching about them ripping off customers too and there will be some new disruptor to shake up the market. As it stands, gently caress Canadian ISPs, competition is good.

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Donít those mini satellites gently caress up astronomy and have the potential to add a ton of space junk?

Like most musky ventures I have concerns.

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

Cat Army


priznat posted:

Donít those mini satellites gently caress up astronomy and have the potential to add a ton of space junk?

Like most musky ventures I have concerns.

sure, but the same thing is true of anything you put in space. that doesn't mean we shouldn't put things in space, it just means we need to either manage that lifecycle or have a plan to dispose of them when they're no longer of use.

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

It just seemed like a whole constellation of small sats pose more of an issue for decommissioning/deorbiting them all safely. Thereís going to be a significant percentage that die off and are not recoverable. Will the orbit decay quickly enough on its own? I should do more reading on this tbh.

infernal machines
Oct 11, 2012

the instrument of man's contempt for his fellow man, forever


The orbit they're in is predicted to decay within 5 years.

The issue with the constellation as-is, is it literally cannot do what they've claimed the service does. Like, it's physically impossible, because the sats they've launched to date don't have the hardware to communicate with each other. So there's no fantastical orbital mesh network*. If there's no fantastical orbital mesh network, what you have are a bunch of bent pipes in very fast orbits. The "pizza box sized phased array antenna" they claim would be used by customers to connect to multiple transponders, so that the connection doesn't drop every minute or so as they fly over the horizon, doesn't exist. And were it to exist at some point, it's very unlikely to be the suggested price of $1000 for quite some time.

*The mesh network concept itself is certainly not going to be low latency, by virtue of being a mesh, but it's also moot because it doesn't exist.

So right now there are a bunch of sats in orbit that don't do any of what's claimed or being sold, but do gently caress up ground astronomy.

Pivo
Aug 20, 2004




priznat posted:

Thereís going to be a significant percentage that die off and are not recoverable. Will the orbit decay quickly enough on its own? I should do more reading on this tbh.

If they are still alive and can't contact the ground for an extended period of time, they de-orbit themselves.

If they aren't able to de-orbit themselves, I don't know how long it takes to naturally decay, but probably on the timescale of 1-2 years, not decades...

infernal machines posted:

The orbit they're in is predicted to decay within 5 years.

Does it though? They have a service life of 5 years, that's with boosting.

Chris Knight
Jun 5, 2002

And I'm only saying this because I care.

There are a lot of decaffeinated brands on the market today that are just as tasty as the real thing.



Fun Shoe

Starlink is a bunch of bullshit that only exists to create work for SpaceX. More Musk grift.

shadow puppet of a
Jan 10, 2007

NO TENGO SCORPIO



Chris Knight posted:

Starlink is a bunch of bullshit that only exists to create work for SpaceX. More Musk grift.

Don't brush off the secondary benefit of getting him invited to Brocasts.

infernal machines
Oct 11, 2012

the instrument of man's contempt for his fellow man, forever


Pivo posted:

Does it though? They have a service life of 5 years, that's with boosting.

My mistake

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Nitr0
Aug 17, 2005

IT'S FREE REAL ESTATE


Chris Knight posted:

Starlink is a bunch of bullshit that only exists to create work for SpaceX. More Musk grift.

Exactly, more billionaire bullshit on this planet. Musk and the US government can get hosed, cause thatís basically what this is, a US government based network with planetary coverage.

Canít wait for the first of these sats to get hit and cause a chain reaction of collisions in space.


Nitr0 fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Jun 27, 2020

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