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Nitr0
Aug 17, 2005

IT'S FREE REAL ESTATE


slidebite posted:

Oh god, I hope not. That would have significant impacts on everyone, not just rear end in a top hat shortsighted billionaires.

Flipside: Might give Musk reason to pump billions into space cleanup research.

I signed up with the Starlink mailing, just to see what they plan on offering for the beta. I have zero intention of leaving my FTTH but I have curiosity to the whole thing.

https://twitter.com/djulik/status/1286053695956881409



Iím so happy that some US corporation has the ability to completely gently caress up the sky in the name of unproven broadband. This isnít even close to the final amount they want to launch.

When a company has to continually launch satellites forever to keep a network in operation... maybe itís not sustainable.

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priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

The more I read or hear about Musk the more he seems like a complete pillock.

If someone is living somewhere with electricity, they can and should have a (subsidized) wire strung for broadband. I donít see the reasoning in being able to blanket every square inch with spotty network access reliant on a fleet of soon to be space junk.

odiv
Jan 12, 2003



What does having electricity have to do with it? There are diesel generators that serve communities well out of the way of a strung wire.

Not that I'm in favour of the space pollution though.

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

odiv posted:

What does having electricity have to do with it? There are diesel generators that serve communities well out of the way of a strung wire.

Not that I'm in favour of the space pollution though.

Yep, sure, there will be special cases but blanketing everywhere is stupid and pointless. Hell most of the internet traffic to southern vancouver island used to go over microwave transmission towers. There are a whole host of other, more sensible options than ďcover everything with a fleet of tinysatsĒ

odiv
Jan 12, 2003



Yeah, we're in agreement about sensible options. I just figured a lot of the idea behind this whole thing was to cover the "special cases".

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Excuse me, pardon me, sheer perfection coming through


I know most of you don't care because you don't need it, but having pretty quick satellite internet will still be good for a lot of people. I don't care who does it because who gaf about brands but it would happen sooner or later. It's good to see these problems now imo and maybe we'll see something actually be done about them.

I would rather see such a global installation run by more than one company, but i guess that'll come.

Nitr0
Aug 17, 2005

IT'S FREE REAL ESTATE


Oh for sure, let's have the 400,000 satellites in low orbit for amazon and spacex and apple and google. Who cares really?

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Yeah doing it without any kind of real oversight in the tech-bro-yest way possible is what ticks me off. There should be some kind of consideration of a shitload of things but nah letís just shoot all this poo poo into orbit why not.

Coxswain Balls
Jun 3, 2001



College Slice

mediaphage posted:

I know most of you don't care because you don't need it, but having pretty quick satellite internet will still be good for a lot of people. I don't care who does it because who gaf about brands but it would happen sooner or later. It's good to see these problems now imo and maybe we'll see something actually be done about them.

I would rather see such a global installation run by more than one company, but i guess that'll come.

I believe it's possible to service remote areas with terrestrial infrastructure but the main roadblock is spectrum licensing, according to a small ISP operator who posts in this thread. The spectrum license just goes to the big three who then sit on it because providing internet services to small communities isn't profitable enough to them.

Most of my ISP knowledge has to do with wired service to the premises so I'd love to hear more about the finer details of wireless ISPs.

Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007


You're Goddamned right I support Medicare for all.







It's a long con to both trap humanity on the planet, and sell safe passage routes through the Skynet to NASA.

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Excuse me, pardon me, sheer perfection coming through


Coxswain Balls posted:

I believe it's possible to service remote areas with terrestrial infrastructure but the main roadblock is spectrum licensing, according to a small ISP operator who posts in this thread. The spectrum license just goes to the big three who then sit on it because providing internet services to small communities isn't profitable enough to them.

Most of my ISP knowledge has to do with wired service to the premises so I'd love to hear more about the finer details of wireless ISPs.

Ish. That still requires transmitters and receivers, and there will still be communities that can't easily take advantage of it. I think cheap fast satellite is honestly gonna be a game changer in many ways (including perhaps getting govs to open up some spectra as you suggest, as companies push to monetize it (or municipally run networks?? (lol))).

I see a network of satellites like this as something that is simply a matter of time. If teslanet doesn't do it, someone else will be in the next five years. in that vein, i think it makes more sense to pressure governments to pass laws regarding things like reflectivity, etc. of satellites launched / operated within their jurisdiction rather than just try and stop it outright (of course, nothing stopping you from doing both i guess if you feel strongly about it).

mediaphage fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Jul 23, 2020

Nitr0
Aug 17, 2005

IT'S FREE REAL ESTATE


mediaphage posted:

Ish. That still requires transmitters and receivers, and there will still be communities that can't easily take advantage of it. I think cheap fast satellite is honestly gonna be a game changer in many ways (including perhaps getting govs to open up some spectra as you suggest, as companies push to monetize it (or municipally run networks?? (lol))).

You know that old saying? Fast, Cheap, Reliable, Choose 2? That applies here.

This satellite play isn't going to be cheap, as much as the musk mob fanbois want you to believe you're getting symmetrical gigabit 1ms latency for $50 with no setup cost. This is stupid.

You're going to see $100+ per month, $2000 setup, varying degrees of latency from 30-200ms, signal issues, weather problems, poor installs.

It's not going to be a "game changer". It's going to be a method for people with lots of money who want to live off the grid and their job enables them to work online to survive. Nothing more.

Anyone who wants to change the world has already moved into an area that can provide them with internet.



As I've mentioned before, there's nothing stopping the government from opening up swaths of spectrum for ISP's and just letting people go hog wild. Open up some 2.5GHz frequency, put in some high powered LTE, you'll get signal and it will work fine. The government wants to "auction" off this spectrum to get more revenue. In reality the auctions are just between Bell, Telus and Rogers. You can have a system right now that would coordinate spectrum with other operators, allow anyone to use the spectrum to provide services, and deploy reliable 100+Mb/s internet to the boonies where people want to live. Right this second, the government could flick the switch and we'd be there.

Coxswain Balls
Jun 3, 2001



College Slice

There were some small communities we serviced that had wireless backhaul, although I can't remember if it was microwave or satellite. I remember one where the guy who lived down the hill from the headend got free service for occasionally going to the dish and brushing off the snow to make his community's internet and TV work properly again, which I found quaint.

Nitr0
Aug 17, 2005

IT'S FREE REAL ESTATE


Look at this poo poo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaqO-rup65w

I'm really looking forward to seeing how people install these. All of sudden you have a huge influx of people who don't know what they're doing trying to mount a dish to their roof, run ethernet inside, make sure it's not leaking into their roofs, put the router in a good spot for their house, and pray it doesn't snow.

We have thousands of customers and each one is installed by one of our staff, specifically so our radio gets the best signal possible from a tower, proper grounding, router placed central to their house for best coverage possible, extenders installed if required.

Spacex approach... "Or just throw it on your lawn or in your garden or whatever it's got motors in it" -elonmusk.

Nitr0 fucked around with this message at 07:40 on Jul 29, 2020

Nitr0
Aug 17, 2005

IT'S FREE REAL ESTATE


Oh yea it's also dummy huge lol. Look at that "pizza box". Gotta overcome weather somehow right, can't use more power so you have to make your antenna bigger.

My customers would laugh and boot us off the property if they saw we were going to install this huge thing on their roof. Looks like a 2.5ft antenna. Gross.

Coxswain Balls
Jun 3, 2001



College Slice

I don't know what's more funny, the face censoring despite the person's username and face showing up in the video and thumbnail, or the snitches in the comments.

Nitr0 posted:

Oh yea it's also dummy huge lol. Look at that "pizza box". Gotta overcome weather somehow right, can't use more power so you have to make your antenna bigger.

My customers would laugh and boot us off the property if they saw we were going to install this huge thing on their roof. Looks like a 2.5ft antenna. Gross.

I thought it was a coffee table at first.

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Excuse me, pardon me, sheer perfection coming through


Nitr0 posted:

You know that old saying? Fast, Cheap, Reliable, Choose 2? That applies here.

This satellite play isn't going to be cheap, as much as the musk mob fanbois want you to believe you're getting symmetrical gigabit 1ms latency for $50 with no setup cost. This is stupid.

You're going to see $100+ per month, $2000 setup, varying degrees of latency from 30-200ms, signal issues, weather problems, poor installs.

It's not going to be a "game changer". It's going to be a method for people with lots of money who want to live off the grid and their job enables them to work online to survive. Nothing more.

Anyone who wants to change the world has already moved into an area that can provide them with internet.



As I've mentioned before, there's nothing stopping the government from opening up swaths of spectrum for ISP's and just letting people go hog wild. Open up some 2.5GHz frequency, put in some high powered LTE, you'll get signal and it will work fine. The government wants to "auction" off this spectrum to get more revenue. In reality the auctions are just between Bell, Telus and Rogers. You can have a system right now that would coordinate spectrum with other operators, allow anyone to use the spectrum to provide services, and deploy reliable 100+Mb/s internet to the boonies where people want to live. Right this second, the government could flick the switch and we'd be there.

All of that is still going to be better for some people in rural areas, some of whom barely even get cellular service.

If you want to get the other wireless ISPs started, I fully support those endeavours too. I just think there is middle-ground between "best internet ever" and "muskfans manage yet another helping of cock"

mediaphage fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Jul 23, 2020

Nitr0
Aug 17, 2005

IT'S FREE REAL ESTATE


I disagree, the very logistics of making sure a satellite company consistently launches satellites every 2nd week, forever in order to keep the network operational is ridiculous. What happens when spacex goes tits up and they can't launch more starlink satellites? Everyone who was paying for service has now got nothing, or spacex goes seeking government funds and uses the users as leverage for a bailout.

Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007


You're Goddamned right I support Medicare for all.







What happens when transceivers fail and they can't guide the dead ones into the ocean

Nitr0
Aug 17, 2005

IT'S FREE REAL ESTATE


spacex already said they don't care, they've designed the sats to "burn up" even though there's been substantial claims from other scientists that this is impossible and there's a not 0% chance that aluminum will withstand the forces of re-entry and crash into someone or something. There's also no mechanism to steer them into the ocean, so we have no idea what will happen until these things start plummeting back to earth in a couple years.

Coxswain Balls
Jun 3, 2001



College Slice

Mister Facetious posted:

What happens when transceivers fail and they can't guide the dead ones into the ocean

Apparently they're supposed to be fully autonomous and will be able to do orbit adjustments and collision avoidance on their own. Musk companies have a pretty good track record with that.

(Ah hahahahahahah)

Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007


You're Goddamned right I support Medicare for all.







Coxswain Balls posted:

Apparently they're supposed to be fully autonomous and will be able to do orbit adjustments and collision avoidance on their own. Musk companies have a pretty good track record with that.

(Ah hahahahahahah)

Well, Musk's products are certainly good at crashing and/or burning by themselves.

infernal machines
Oct 11, 2012

the instrument of man's contempt for his fellow man, forever


Coxswain Balls posted:

Apparently they're supposed to be fully autonomous and will be able to do orbit adjustments and collision avoidance on their own. Musk companies have a pretty good track record with that.

(Ah hahahahahahah)

Good thing there are no firetrucks in orbit

Pivo
Aug 20, 2004




Mister Facetious posted:

What happens when transceivers fail and they can't guide the dead ones into the ocean

The serious answer is that they fall out of orbit by themselves within about a year. All satellites in low earth orbit require boosting to stay up or their orbit rapidly decays due to atmospheric drag. The major limit to satellite operational life is the amount of propellant carried onboard. Refuelling in orbit is not yet possible.

Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007


You're Goddamned right I support Medicare for all.







"Yeah, they crash back to Earth by design, but if you pay a little extra, we guarantee it won't crash in your country."

Pivo
Aug 20, 2004




They're too small to survive re-entry

Nitr0
Aug 17, 2005

IT'S FREE REAL ESTATE


Pivo posted:

They're too small to survive re-entry

Citation needed.

shadow puppet of a
Jan 10, 2007

NO TENGO SCORPIO



Nitr0 posted:

Citation needed.

He got 2/3rds of the way through a pilots license and once nearly few a Beechcraft into LEO.

Lobok
Jul 13, 2006

Say Watt?



Elon May He Rain... Satellites Down Upon Us

Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007


You're Goddamned right I support Medicare for all.







Pivo
Aug 20, 2004




Nitr0 posted:

Citation needed.

https://www.space.com/13049-6-bigge...alls-space.html

For example UARS was 6.5 tons and NASA estimates 532kg survived re-entry, about 10% of the mass. Starlink satellites weigh about 227kg. That isn't going to "crash" into anything.

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Excuse me, pardon me, sheer perfection coming through


Pivo posted:

https://www.space.com/13049-6-bigge...alls-space.html

For example UARS was 6.5 tons and NASA estimates 532kg survived re-entry, about 10% of the mass. Starlink satellites weigh about 227kg. That isn't going to "crash" into anything.

roughly similar orbits, too

Nitr0
Aug 17, 2005

IT'S FREE REAL ESTATE


https://www.scientificamerican.com/...unk/SpaceX%92s/

?

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Excuse me, pardon me, sheer perfection coming through



Your url is broken (just remove the last bit), but also that article doesn't even suggest that they shouldn't launch - just that someone should keep an eye on them.

Chris Knight
Jun 5, 2002

And I'm only saying this because I care.

There are a lot of decaffeinated brands on the market today that are just as tasty as the real thing.



Fun Shoe

Pivo posted:

They're too small to survive re-entry
Too fail to big.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us


Pillbug

My internet has been out since Saturday. The ISP (eyesurf) says that the modem isn't getting signal and keep sending techs to fix the line. The techs (Rogers) claim that the line has signal and it's the ISP's fault. As you can imagine, this isn't a very productive relationship.

What can I do rather than move closer to a Starbucks so I can steal their wifi?

infernal machines
Oct 11, 2012

the instrument of man's contempt for his fellow man, forever


Do what my friend did for a year, get a USB wifi dongle, put it in a dollar store metal mixing bowl, and point that at the Starbucks.

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Tagra
Apr 7, 2006

If you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.



I was wondering why we got a Telus overage fee when they are waiving overage fees during the pandemic, but it looks like they specifically said "Until June 30th". Cool cool good thing the pandemic is over and we're not working from home anymore.

On the upside, my work is going to reimburse me for it and I might get a 15 dollar a month pandemic 'raise' to purchase unlimited

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