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infernal machines
Oct 11, 2012

the instrument of man's contempt for his fellow man, forever


Kazinsal posted:

When it happens I lose connectivity and experience 50+% packet loss on wired and wireless devices no matter what the configuration is.

I'm sure it's just my system, yes, all five of them experiencing the same problem at the same time for the same duration over two different kinds of access media, definitely.

are you using the isp's supplied router or your own?

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Kazinsal
Dec 13, 2011





infernal machines posted:

are you using the isp's supplied router or your own?

ISP's.

infernal machines
Oct 11, 2012

the instrument of man's contempt for his fellow man, forever


it might be a POS. it could be your connection, but it's pretty likely the CPE sucks rear end as a router/firewall

Coxswain Balls
Jun 3, 2001



College Slice

Oversubscription leads to poor speeds but packet loss or disconnections is going to be an RF issue somewhere between the house and the node if it's on the ISP's end. This is admittedly difficult to get looked at properly unless you have a tech that knows how the service works, has critical thinking skills, and isn't just trying to dump it on the customer.

One time I got into a back and forth with someone in the field tech QA team that was trying to cancel someone's service call because the customer didn't remove their own router when troubleshooting. The phone TSR troubleshooting knew their poo poo and tested the connection between the CMTS and the modem, which was showing massive packet loss and completely ruled out customer equipment so he opted not to waste the customer's time with that. I backed my dude up because gently caress saying he didn't do his job right when he's doing it better than they are.

I sorta got in trouble when it got to the point where I made a diagram showing the signal path from the CMTS to the customer's equipment and explained what was tested and where the problem was narrowed down to, and how getting the customer to get another wired device for testing direct to the modem would be pointless. The email she sent to my boss was pretty funny, like "what the gently caress is this, why is he treating them like they don't know what they're talking about?" Got some bad news for you, lady...

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

Coxswain Balls posted:

Oversubscription leads to poor speeds but packet loss or disconnections is going to be an RF issue somewhere between the house and the node if it's on the ISP's end. This is admittedly difficult to get looked at properly unless you have a tech that knows how the service works, has critical thinking skills, and isn't just trying to dump it on the customer.

One time I got into a back and forth with someone in the field tech QA team that was trying to cancel someone's service call because the customer didn't remove their own router when troubleshooting. The phone TSR troubleshooting knew their poo poo and tested the connection between the CMTS and the modem, which was showing massive packet loss and completely ruled out customer equipment so he opted not to waste the customer's time with that. I backed my dude up because gently caress saying he didn't do his job right when he's doing it better than they are.

I sorta got in trouble when it got to the point where I made a diagram showing the signal path from the CMTS to the customer's equipment and explained what was tested and where the problem was narrowed down to, and how getting the customer to get another wired device for testing direct to the modem would be pointless. The email she sent to my boss was pretty funny, like "what the gently caress is this, why is he treating them like they don't know what they're talking about?" Got some bad news for you, lady...

I basically quit Rogers over this issue. Packet loss was constantly spiking after they did a set of upgrades back in February/March that meant I was totally unable to play online games. Endless rounds of calls and no one seemed to understand the issue. They blamed it on the modem router, the wiring in the house, my computer. gently caress they even tried to blame the fact that my modem might be plugged into a socket with bad electricity. Despite a ton of people on the Rogers forums telling them that they had major packet loss issues they didn't take it seriously and just blamed the customer.

Went to Bell/Virgin and all the problems went away. lovely part is I am stuck with 50/10 since they don't have fibe in my area.

zergstain
Dec 15, 2005



Ignoring full-duplex for now, what's the best that could be realistically offered over DOCSIS 3.1?

Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007


You're Goddamned right I support Medicare for all.







Kazinsal posted:

the only way to get functional internet here is to become your own ISP.

Coxswain Balls
Jun 3, 2001



College Slice

There's been a very noticeable drop in tech-literate reps from when I started as a frontline TSR ten years ago to around when I took my buyout and jumped ship. Testing for packet loss is so easy but it involves a command line so nobody does it any more; you're basically just doing a ping -t to the customer's modem and seeing what it does. A few percent over a couple hundred pings is enough to know that it's an issue between the modem and the "outside", and you might as well pull up a couple of their neighbours and do the same thing to see if it's widespread enough that a house call is a waste of time and if it should be sent to plant maintenance.

For what it's worth whenever I did new hire training I wanted my people to be the ones that got poo poo done instead of focusing on call/chat metrics when they started rolling those out. It rubbed some people the wrong way but the results spoke for themselves. I got a complaint from a new supervisor one time whose entire team I was in charge of training because of how I carried myself on the first day or some crap like that. A couple years later after the big buyout the same person offered me a job at another company because of my "proven track record", which was pretty lol. Turned it down because I liked teaching so much that I used my buyout money to start on an education degree; I found setting people up for success to be so rewarding and I'd rather do that for not-a-big-corporation.

zergstain posted:

Ignoring full-duplex for now, what's the best that could be realistically offered over DOCSIS 3.1?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOCSIS#Comparison

That's what the technology is capable of, but it comes down to how the ISP allocates channels and what kind of QAM they're using which can be complicated and varies from provider to provider depending on legacy services like broadcast television (which unlike IPTV has dedicated channels pumping a downstream signal all day, erryday, even if you're not using it), or even analog TV. Higher-order QAM signals can carry more data, but at the cost of being more susceptible to signal issues so there's a trade-off there as well.

Kazinsal
Dec 13, 2011





I would just appreciate a TSR who understands "it's intermittent, random, lasts about five minutes, and my internet is unusable when it happens, here's a loss visualization of what it looks like" and doesn't go "well I don't see any loss right now have you tried rebooting your modem" for half an hour before deciding the best thing they can do is mail me a splitter to replace the one they sent me a week ago despite me still having the problem without a splitter in line.

It's really annoying that they don't have phone support at night anymore. The chat is basically impossible to demand an escalation through.

Coxswain Balls
Jun 3, 2001



College Slice

Kazinsal posted:

I would just appreciate a TSR who understands "it's intermittent, random, lasts about five minutes, and my internet is unusable when it happens, here's a loss visualization of what it looks like" and doesn't go "well I don't see any loss right now have you tried rebooting your modem" for half an hour before deciding the best thing they can do is mail me a splitter to replace the one they sent me a week ago despite me still having the problem without a splitter in line.

It's really annoying that they don't have phone support at night anymore. The chat is basically impossible to demand an escalation through.

I found out about that last week when I finally needed to get some account stuff fixed that I knew would be a pain in the rear end with an obscure workflow. The chat worked well enough, but then again I was able to tell the dude what the issue is, what caused it (a back-end migration thing), the commands and options needed in the old-rear end mainframe that needed to be pushed through, and the people to send it to on the 50% chance something breaks that I know isn't his fault. He caught on pretty quickly and we were able to shoot the poo poo for a bit which was nice, because I know how boring night shift can be.

Back when there was phone support the night crew was always the most experienced folks who had to be able to handle stuff on their own, and late enough it's much easier to get through to someone if the queues are the same as when I left. Like I said earlier it could be boring though; one night when I stayed late to work on curriculum there was a bird chirping in the new building we were in that was under construction. One of the night guys and I got a ladder and went all around the building trying to find it. After an hour of tracing the echoes from various points around the building we discovered it was a low battery alarm for a fire door security thing.

originalnickname
Mar 9, 2005

tree


Kazinsal posted:

When it happens I lose connectivity and experience 50+% packet loss on wired and wireless devices no matter what the configuration is.

I'm sure it's just my system, yes, all five of them experiencing the same problem at the same time for the same duration over two different kinds of access media, definitely.

I thought they fixed this or whatever?

I mean, I've experienced no packet loss at all with a 100mbit upload and gig down from Shaw, ever, so there I guess our anecdotes cancel each other out?

Sorry, that was entirely not helpful. If these guys are all hot to mail you stuff, get them to mail you a new modem as well.

What you can do to remove the onboard router aspect from the equation is get them to temporarily bridge your modem, and hook your main computer to it for a couple days and see if you still get packet loss. Shaw's got 2 brands of modems, technicolor modems (those are the good ones imo with the broadcom chipset) and there's the other ones I forget, which are the puma chipsets. Those are problematic.

Anyway, I understand it's frustrating. I'd definitely try to nail someone on the phone to get an in person visit. They can actually do those now, so you can emphatically recommend how much you want to cancel if they don't send someone to fix this asap.

originalnickname fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Aug 30, 2020

Kazinsal
Dec 13, 2011





originalnickname posted:

I thought they fixed this or whatever?

I mean, I've experienced no packet loss at all with a 100mbit upload and gig down from Shaw, ever, so there I guess our anecdotes cancel each other out?

Turns out they didn't.

I didn't start having this problem until about a month ago so I'm mostly disappointed that after years of no issues with Shaw they've just shat the bed on me and are refusing to acknowledge it.

originalnickname
Mar 9, 2005

tree


Kazinsal posted:

Turns out they didn't.

I didn't start having this problem until about a month ago so I'm mostly disappointed that after years of no issues with Shaw they've just shat the bed on me and are refusing to acknowledge it.

Without getting too specific, what city do you live in?

Kazinsal
Dec 13, 2011





originalnickname posted:

Without getting too specific, what city do you live in?

I'm in Langley, about half an hour outside of Vancouver.

I'm pretty sure this is one of the Puma chipset modems, yeah, so if it's finally croaking on me then I guess that's an expected failure mode. It's a Hitron CGNM-2250. Hopefully I can get them to send me a new modem and maybe a tech out as well. Usually I'd be fine doing the activation and poo poo myself but with this situation I would much rather have someone who actually has tools to check SNR and poo poo on the line handy.

zergstain
Dec 15, 2005



originalnickname posted:

I mean, I've experienced no packet loss at all with a 100mbit upload and gig down from Shaw, ever, so there I guess our anecdotes cancel each other out?

Oh, so Shaw offers 1000/100? That's seems close to reasonable, or at least maintains the same ratio as the 150/15 I have now. I'm guessing Rogers infrastructure is just woefully out of date?

Kazinsal
Dec 13, 2011





zergstain posted:

Oh, so Shaw offers 1000/100? That's seems close to reasonable, or at least maintains the same ratio as the 150/15 I have now. I'm guessing Rogers infrastructure is just woefully out of date?

Only on business plans here Best you can get in residential in my neighbourhood is 1000/25 for $125/month. Business tops out at 1000/125 for $201/month ($160/month on a 3 year contract).

...actually that's lower than it used to be. It was 1000/125 for $250/month or $165/month on a 3 year contract a couple months ago. Wonder if business internet plans still get you NOC access.

zergstain
Dec 15, 2005



Kazinsal posted:

Only on business plans here Best you can get in residential in my neighbourhood is 1000/25 for $125/month. Business tops out at 1000/125 for $201/month ($160/month on a 3 year contract).

...actually that's lower than it used to be. It was 1000/125 for $250/month or $165/month on a 3 year contract a couple months ago. Wonder if business internet plans still get you NOC access.

Just checked, Rogers fastest cable business internet is 1000/50. Which someone mentioned they used to have for residential.

Coxswain Balls
Jun 3, 2001



College Slice

Kazinsal posted:

I'm in Langley, about half an hour outside of Vancouver.

I'm pretty sure this is one of the Puma chipset modems, yeah, so if it's finally croaking on me then I guess that's an expected failure mode. It's a Hitron CGNM-2250. Hopefully I can get them to send me a new modem and maybe a tech out as well. Usually I'd be fine doing the activation and poo poo myself but with this situation I would much rather have someone who actually has tools to check SNR and poo poo on the line handy.

I think the newest modems let you check the signal strength and SnR from the GUI, but that's not much help unless you know what the tolerances are. I can't remember the values off the top of my head; my Hitron with the Puma chipset has been chugging along for years in bridged mode with no issues so I haven't had to check in a long time.

Being on infrastructure that wasn't originally meant for two-way communication can lead to so many weird issues. Really common was houses with competitor's services that use the coax wiring in the house for stuff like IPTV, but their tech didn't filter or disconnect the line to the outside leading to noise leaking into the neighbourhood network.

Any issue you can think of with radio also applies with cable service, and it's neat (or frustrating, if you're on the receiving end) when they cross over. When all OTA television stations had to switch to digital signals there was a solid year of service calls to do things like simply tighten connectors or replace old wiring. Outside signals were getting in which would cause all sorts of annoying intermittent issues. The switch to IPTV only got rid of a really handy troubleshooting tool, which was scrolling through channels by order of radio frequency instead of channel number, and the picture breakup would get worse as you got closer to the frequencies getting messed up. Oh hey look, you live pretty close to a tower broadcasting in that frequency.

HAM nerds calling in was always a delight. They knew their poo poo and would often tell us about customer or ISP equipment that was acting up and leaking signal into the airwaves. It would sound so sketchy and fake when we'd get someone to call a customer out of the blue and tell them "yeah, your cable box is leaking radio waves so we need to send someone in to give you a free upgrade", but it's legit I swear.

Kazinsal
Dec 13, 2011





Yeah, some of the crossovers with cable and how it's evolved are fascinating. I remember when Rogers (and Shaw for a time after they purchased Rogers' holdings out here) provided FM radio over cable. And when there was an analog TV channel that was some sort of signal analyzer I think on channel 97 or something like that, and a teletext-like news channel on 70 or thereabouts.

Now all the fun stuff is gone and it's just DOCSIS and pain.

Coxswain Balls
Jun 3, 2001



College Slice

Oh man, I forgot about radio over coax. It seemed so weird and pointless to me but then I realized I'm from the prairies and that kind of thing makes way more sense if you live in the BC interior. Of course those had to be phased out so the bandwidth could be used for modern services (a lot later than you're probably thinking), and there was a surprising number of folks that called in about it that had to be talked through the transition to internet radio. It's anachronistic and bandwidth inefficient but I do get the appeal of turning an electrical signal into sound and video with just a tuner and not having to rely on a stupid app.

originalnickname
Mar 9, 2005

tree


Kazinsal posted:

I'm in Langley, about half an hour outside of Vancouver.

I'm pretty sure this is one of the Puma chipset modems, yeah, so if it's finally croaking on me then I guess that's an expected failure mode. It's a Hitron CGNM-2250. Hopefully I can get them to send me a new modem and maybe a tech out as well. Usually I'd be fine doing the activation and poo poo myself but with this situation I would much rather have someone who actually has tools to check SNR and poo poo on the line handy.

Yeah, first step is getting a new modem. If you can, ask them for an xb6, that'll open up more downstream and upstream channels at the very least and (possibly) help with your signal issues. If I remember correctly those hitron modems only do 24 downstream channels and 8 (I think) upstream and I don't think they do OFDM. So, yeah, get a new modem. xb6 will do 32 downstream and I can't remember how many upstream and are also OFDM compatible.

originalnickname
Mar 9, 2005

tree


Kazinsal posted:

Yeah, some of the crossovers with cable and how it's evolved are fascinating. I remember when Rogers (and Shaw for a time after they purchased Rogers' holdings out here) provided FM radio over cable. And when there was an analog TV channel that was some sort of signal analyzer I think on channel 97 or something like that, and a teletext-like news channel on 70 or thereabouts.

Now all the fun stuff is gone and it's just DOCSIS and pain.

so the reason why those radio stations are gone is because they were occupying really nice spectrum that could be used for more upstream (read: upload).. so the second the CRTC let them, all the cable companies ditched them. it was kinda neat, though, listening to Vancouver radio stations in Alberta.

The pilot frequencies still exist and you can definitely still see them with a spectrum analyzer, though, they just don't get put onto the DCT's channel map. I guess you can still tune to channel 999 though.

Chris Knight
Jun 5, 2002

And I'm only saying this because I care.

There are a lot of decaffeinated brands on the market today that are just as tasty as the real thing.



Fun Shoe

Rogers buying out Cogeco territory

https://twitter.com/cbcalerts/statu...159657415860227

infernal machines
Oct 11, 2012

the instrument of man's contempt for his fellow man, forever


I thought they split the country in half ages ago to avoid monopoly status or something

Kazinsal
Dec 13, 2011





infernal machines posted:

I thought they split the country in half ages ago to avoid monopoly status or something

I think that's why Shaw took over all of Rogers' cable assets west of Ontario in exchange for their handing over their cable assets Ontario and eastwards in the early 2000s. Because having a monopoly in one half of the country is preferable to a nation-wide competing duopoly, I guess.

Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007


You're Goddamned right I support Medicare for all.







I think the telcocartel has realized that Trudeau doesn't actually care beyond mild voice-raising.

Chris Knight
Jun 5, 2002

And I'm only saying this because I care.

There are a lot of decaffeinated brands on the market today that are just as tasty as the real thing.



Fun Shoe

infernal machines posted:

I thought they split the country in half ages ago to avoid monopoly status or something
It's not de facto, its de jure now!

shadow puppet of a
Jan 10, 2007

NO TENGO SCORPIO



In the terms of the deal Rogers should be forced to corporately exhume the MacLean-Hunter brand as an SD-only cable "flanker" brand where you pay 19.95 per month for a lot of provincial legislature channels, VisionTV and get to see scrambled porno after 11pm.

Kazinsal
Dec 13, 2011





Finally got Shaw support to just mail me a new modem. 2-5 business days, they say.

I look forward to getting a modem in two weeks.

BGrifter
Mar 16, 2007

#1 CAPITALS FAN
Available on the App Store


Kazinsal posted:

Finally got Shaw support to just mail me a new modem. 2-5 business days, they say.

I look forward to getting a modem in two weeks.

A promise of a callback in 24-48 hours took them 29 days to get back to me.

I wouldn’t expect that modem till 2021.

Chris Knight
Jun 5, 2002

And I'm only saying this because I care.

There are a lot of decaffeinated brands on the market today that are just as tasty as the real thing.



Fun Shoe

BGrifter posted:

in 24-48 hours
I mean, not sequentially.

Kazinsal
Dec 13, 2011





Chris Knight posted:

I mean, not sequentially.

After 24-48 hours of thinking about getting a callback, you'll receive one.

Kazinsal
Dec 13, 2011





Update: the gently caress



That was the fastest I've ever had Shaw replace anything.

shadow puppet of a
Jan 10, 2007

NO TENGO SCORPIO



Cmeu5 is an excellent provider. The new beanfield imho.

originalnickname
Mar 9, 2005

tree


Kazinsal posted:

Update: the gently caress



That was the fastest I've ever had Shaw replace anything.

clearly they're lulling you into a false sense of security. Cancel immediately.

StealthArcher
Jan 10, 2010




Nap Ghost

Kazinsal posted:

Update: the gently caress



That was the fastest I've ever had Shaw replace anything.

Cant tell if i handled this thing or not

E: Nvm youre in BC, i definetly didnt.

Nitr0
Aug 17, 2005

IT'S FREE REAL ESTATE


.

Nitr0 fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Sep 7, 2020

Pivo
Aug 20, 2004




It looks like TSI offers rCable 1000/30 in my building now, I'm on 300/20. 35% higher price for 3x the down. Saturating my GigE sounds nice. More headroom up sounds good too. Guess I'd have to buy a DOCSIS 3.1 modem.

How is everyone's experience with rCable at those speeds? Does it work well? What about modem - CODA-45 or TC4400?

infernal machines
Oct 11, 2012

the instrument of man's contempt for his fellow man, forever


I had it a couple years ago and it was fine. I had 50mbps upload though.

It was fine. Topped out around 930mbps down with my old Mikrotik, in speed tests, actual sustained downloads were never over 500mbps IIRC. I had the CODA modem which also was fine. It was a rev2 so it didn't have the showstopper issues of the first gen.

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Pivo
Aug 20, 2004




Alright who needs to wait for more than one opinion, modem ordered 😎 Although I got the TC4400; it's newer and TSI had it for 140 + 10 shipping. Amazon has neither and Canada Computers has the TC4400 for 170 😲

I just built a NAS and need to start filling it with all the media I deleted to make room on my old server. Thanks for the push infernal.

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