Canadian internet access gets shittier

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > Canadian internet access gets shittier

A c E: Jun 18, 2007; Is this weird? Is this too weird? Do you need to sit down?

I'm really disappointed that they actually went through with this.

I'm stuck with the choices of Bell with their lovely 60GB cap, Rogers/Cogeco with their great speeds with a lovely 60GB cap and random companies that go through bell with slower speeds but decent caps.

It's completely ridiculous that Bell has the monopolies on the lines and are giving everyone such a shoddy deal.

Family of 6 at my house and we are already using 2 connections because of caps, up until now I was enjoying TekSavvy's 200GB limits on their 5mbps connection but it looks as though this will change.

Good thing North America is striving for better internet speeds instead of trying to gently caress over consumers and rape them with fees. :argh:

Edit: spelling.

# ¿ Oct 31, 2010 19:55

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# ¿ Apr 25, 2024 05:05

A c E: Jun 18, 2007; Is this weird? Is this too weird? Do you need to sit down?

Thank god for Teksavvy.
25/1 with no cap for $70.

I can't believe some of the caps I'm seeing. Between steam sales, netflix and everything I'd be doomed.

Hell, backing up my minecraft map to my pc would consume 1GB/day.

# ¿ Dec 6, 2012 17:59

A c E: Jun 18, 2007; Is this weird? Is this too weird? Do you need to sit down?

I read about it, but I'd be interested in know what kind of money they are trying to extort.
So glad these "lawsuits" have come to Canada...

On the plus, TekSavvy seems to be trying to do the right thing and prevent them but it doesn't look overly promising.

# ¿ Dec 13, 2012 18:32

A c E: Jun 18, 2007; Is this weird? Is this too weird? Do you need to sit down?

I've run both their Cable and DSL for years. No issues aside from Rogers being generally incompetent and Teksavvy's support wait times were pretty awful 2 years ago. Much better than any other provider so far.

# ¿ Feb 4, 2013 14:57

A c E: Jun 18, 2007; Is this weird? Is this too weird? Do you need to sit down?

Jan posted:

Yeah, Bell is loving outrageous and I will never, ever make use of their services.

About a month after I moved to my apartment, they sent me a generic flyer addressed to:
"Better services for
(my address)
Montreal, QC etc. etc."

After which I took the time to get on their website, fill in dummy information because apparently you can't file a complaint without being a Bell customer, and basically tell them "I don't want your services, I will never want your services, and if you send me another of your unsolicited and insultingly usurious offers, I will report you to every possible consumer agency and social network." Which likely won't stop them, but it sure felt satisfying.

Rogers does this to me. I'm with TekSavvy, going through Rogers cable (so they know I'm already connected) and twice per month I get flyers for their "better service" with their amazingly "high" bandwidth caps address specifically to my apartment. Actually looking at the caps now, they aren't as bad as they used to be last time I looked (20-60GB when I checked months ago). I still can't see the point of 35/3 when you only get 120GB. Anyways, they refuse to stop sending them to me. I've yelled at them multiple times for it. Now I'm just saving them all up to mail back to them at some point.

# ¿ Sep 25, 2013 22:14

A c E: Jun 18, 2007; Is this weird? Is this too weird? Do you need to sit down?

mediaphage posted:

Yeah, if you can get Rogers, you can get Start or TekSavvy at this point. It's all anecdotal of course, but I've had few issues with TS (K-W here) - but they do have pretty terrible customer service; when we moved into our condo they were convinced we couldn't get service in this building. As it turns out, their postal code db wasn't updated since this is a new building and it has it's own postal code.

We're the only people in the building with TS or even Rogers, now, I think. Rogers was also confused by the code.

I've found their customer service fairly decent. Nice, friendly and they speak english. The wait times for service can be atrocious, but that's more to due with Bell/Rogers dragging their asses.

As long as the service is working, it's great. If it goes down though and you need to wait for a Rogers tech you are hosed. In the 2 + years I've been with them for cable, I've been down 3 times and its never a quick fix. The years before that with them using DSL were a dream.

The first was a week after my connection was installed: During the installation of my services, the Rogers tech cut the cable line to the landlord, who lives on the main floor of the house. They had an active Rogers account at the time. I told the technician as much, but he still cut the line despite my objections. The following week when they came back to hook the landlord's cable/internet up again, they cut my line. It took a week before Rogers was willing to send someone out to fix their mistake. He also came before the time window and left before I could give him poo poo and make sure he didn't do anything wrong that time. TS gave me some off my bill but it wasn't enough.

I lost access for 3 days a few weeks back during a node split. My modem was unable to get an IP from Rogers DNS. This was back in September when everyone was having issues.

Halfway through September, I upped the speed on my connection to 35/3 which required a new modem. You better believe Rogers (probably) hosed that one up and took both modems offline. That lasted a day until they entered the correct MAC address into the system.

TSI CSRs are usually fairly nice and somewhat knowledgeable*. I don't get the usual sass from them when diagnosing issue like you would from bell or some of the other ISPs (looking at you Execulink. Telling me a website was in fact down and its wasn't a routing issue on your end until I called you out on it). I also like being able to talk to them through twitter/dslreports. gently caress calling. Their call wait times are bad (so you should reuqest a callback through twitter) and having to rely on bell/rogers/cogeco for technicians make any changes go at a snails pace.

Unlimited internet is pretty nice though.

* I went through various channels and not a single rep was able to tell me how many concurrent calls can be made on a TekTalk line. The network guys came back and told me its 1, but it's actually 3 if you are rolling your own PBX and not their ATA.

# ¿ Oct 21, 2013 22:20

A c E: Jun 18, 2007; Is this weird? Is this too weird? Do you need to sit down?

Kachunkachunk posted:

I'm on Bell at my new condo with an actual FTTH termination in my closet. I wasn't expecting that!
I have to say, I'm impressed. I just hope the unlimited add-on is held up later.

Here's some dick-waving:

Man I'm jealous of that upload speed, but I can't complain too much, especially after seeing some of the connection speeds posted in this thread (not to mention high packet loss issues for some). Plus, sharing a ~~5mbps~~3mbps connection at work with 20 other users :suicide:

has shown me how lucky I am.

I'm also very glad I have unlimited bandwidth. Not my record but I pay for unlimited so I better drat well use more than 300GB/m.

code:

Last 30 Days (2013-10-15 ~ 2013-11-13)
Reception	371.22 GB
Transmission	47.65 GB
Total	418.86 GB

Mister Macys posted:

Finally cut the chain binding me to those criminal fucks at Rogers.
Come December 9th, TekSavvy here I come!

Rogers delenda est.

Hopefully you have a backup plan for internet for the first week because Rogers will make sure the switch is botched and you will have downtime. They do this anytime I've made any changes to my service, between cutting lines or kicking my modem off the DCHP server. This is assuming you are going from Rogers Cable to TekSavvy Cable

Edit: VVVVVV Glad to hear it. I played Don't Starve during the 3 days I went down back in September.

A c E fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Nov 14, 2013

# ¿ Nov 13, 2013 22:49

A c E: Jun 18, 2007; Is this weird? Is this too weird? Do you need to sit down?

slush posted:

Well, TekSavvy announced a price increase on their plans. $2 or $3 depending on who your vendor is. So, the 25/2 (300gb) plan in the GTA is going to $42/mo. The hilarious part is that they warned that there might be further price increases coming! Interestingly enough, Rogers sent our a direct mail offering 30/3 (300gb) for $45/mo with a price-lock for 3 years.

I was wondering what speed that offer was. I hate getting their direct ads to begin with but I couldn't believe they sent one out claiming they were the fastest ISP in Ontario or Canada or something and then they didn't include the speed of the package offered in the ad, just the bandwidth.

# ¿ Nov 18, 2013 15:55

A c E: Jun 18, 2007; Is this weird? Is this too weird? Do you need to sit down?

And now I see how truly awful Canadian internet is. We have a site in Mississauga that needs a new ISP.

They currently have some wireless provider giving us 6/4 or something which is great except it comes with 3% packet loss which is a joke.

So I called them out on it and they are blaming our equipment because there's no issue between our 'modem' and their site. OK sure, so despite being wired directly into the first router behind their modem and our lines being dead outside of some light http traffic and still showing huge loss, it must be on our end.

So looking for a new ISP for a business in that location I have found that we can get anything more than 6/1. Even our downtown Toronto office is stuck on 6/1.

What's even more amazing to me is bell wants to charge us $25/month for a loving Static IP. Thank god for TekkSavy or Start with their prices being more reasonable. ($4/$10 for the curious)

# ¿ Nov 19, 2013 20:14

A c E: Jun 18, 2007; Is this weird? Is this too weird? Do you need to sit down?

DirtyRobot posted:

The amount of credit Tek Savvy deserves is directly correlated to how much of a tool and how totally unreasonable some posters can be.

That is to say, Tek Savvy deserves a lot of credit.

edit: Actually one of the reasons I'm still with Tek Savvy, and I don't really consider shopping around for a cheaper option, is they still seem more transparent than many others (especially the big guys, obviously). I've had fantastic service from them in the past, though admittedly I haven't had real issues in the past year or two.

While a lot of it is undeserved and they usually do a bang up job, back in September when things were at its worse, it was a nightmare. It would take hours to get a hold of support, regardless of when you called them. People were down for weeks, no status updates in certain areas unless you called in or got a response on dslreports. The only reason I knew it was a DHCP issue in my area was because of Twitter reports from other TSI customers. As it took me 3 hours to get through to phone support.

I get that it was Rogers fault we were down but trying to wait on the drat phone when you don't get reception in the house and your voip line is down because the internet is down is a bitch when it takes 3 hours to get through. I got hung up on after a few minutes because the reception cut out briefly, he didn't give me a decent chance. Their call back feature was down, so you actually had to wait too.

It took them over 48 hours to respond to my "ticket" on dslreports. The response was just a cut and paste fill questionnaire asking me for all the crap they usually have to do.

Orders were also not being put into their system, as in towards the end of Sept I upgraded my package using the online portal and didn't hear anything from TSI for a week, so I called in and they told me they could see the order but it was left in limbo and if I hadn't of contacted them, nothing would have been done which is pretty crazy to me.

That said, I am happy with their service, but I can understand why people exploded back then. Basically, the service is great and I have no reason to switch, but I always keep in mind that any slight change to my service will result in at least a day of downtime because Rogers seems to use it as an excuse to try and gain customers. At least TSI don't knowingly lie to me, not thatI've caught them on anyways.

RE: TSI Bandwidth, I'm surprised they are allowed to have a cap when they offer no way to check if you are on cable. I know they are working on adding it, but that just seems unfair, as not all routers can track it.
If they are just warning like Cogeco used to (every month I'd get my "first warning", with my record being 900% over my limit of 100GB) then its not a big issue. Doesn't effect me either way because I went with unlimited.

Speaking of crazy internet prices, if I remember when I get home I'll post the "awesome deals" we were offered by a technician that came out to service my workplace's crappy internet last week.

Schmerm posted:

I just switched to Distributel cable in North York. It's supposed to be 6M down but I only get 1.2. The cable install guy used his tester thingy and said the cable quality was good, so what other factors are there? Is it just IP congestion or is there something in the way cable internet works itself?

I assume you are testing with speedtest.net or something? And you've tried multiple servers?

# ¿ Nov 26, 2013 23:52

A c E: Jun 18, 2007; Is this weird? Is this too weird? Do you need to sit down?

EngineerJoe posted:

For a Netflix competitor that will no doubt be tied to a Rogers cable sub or at least be heavily discounted with one.

And of course, bandwidth for this service won't count against your cap.

Either way, I'm expecting it to be a huge flop because Rogers can't do anything right.

# ¿ Jan 14, 2014 23:34

A c E: Jun 18, 2007; Is this weird? Is this too weird? Do you need to sit down?

EngineerJoe posted:

Anyone who uses netflix really needs a dns redirector that lets you pick the netflix region. It really expands your library.

Does anyone have information on how to go about setting these up for yourself? I have a VPS in both the US/UK and currently use them as VPNs (among other things) to access US Netflix/Hulu and BBC but it'd be nice to set up my own dns redirection so my Xbox could access these as well.

Edit: I know there are other services but I'd rather run my own if I can. My netflix account is already an American one though, just registered it to whatever address is attached to my VPS IP and used a virtual credit card to fudge my way through.

A c E fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Jan 15, 2014

# ¿ Jan 15, 2014 17:49

A c E: Jun 18, 2007; Is this weird? Is this too weird? Do you need to sit down?

Squibbles posted:

I think part of this is that canadian accounts don't have the list feature yet? Or maybe that's just on Ps3. We just got the ability to use profiles a couple of months ago on our canadian account but I think that's been around for a long time on the US version? I remember when I first signed up for netflix people recommended using a US account for that reason. I didn't because I was dumb though.

Yeah I think that's part of it. I know the Canadian accounts didn't have some of the features in the US accounts for a while.

# ¿ Jan 16, 2014 15:28

A c E: Jun 18, 2007; Is this weird? Is this too weird? Do you need to sit down?

slidebite posted:

Google video quality report is now live for Canada
http://www.google.com/get/videoqualityreport/

I am geolocated to Vancouver (even though I am in Southern Alberta) because if Teksavvys routing

But since I am Youtube HD verified I guess this means it's pretty good?

I'm in Ontario, close to Mississauga on TekSavvy and my graph looks pretty much identical.

# ¿ Jan 22, 2014 22:28

A c E: Jun 18, 2007; Is this weird? Is this too weird? Do you need to sit down?

EngineerJoe posted:

The tracker is up but they're not billing anyone yet. A bunch of people aren't getting reliable stats so it sounds like there are still bugs to work out.

Is this for rCable? If so, I'll check mine and compare it against what my router reports to see if they are e...

Actually, I guess it depends on how they have it set up, since they don't count overnight bandwidth.

Edit: Yeah, it's all over the place. I didn't include the off peak section, but they were all below 1GB download and at most 2-3GB upload. The portal is reporting my total download as being 75GB higher than what my router reports in the end and my router is tracking overnight.

http://i.imgur.com/E9lV6CN.png

Edit 2: Linked due to resolution.

A c E fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Feb 19, 2014

# ¿ Feb 19, 2014 19:09

A c E: Jun 18, 2007; Is this weird? Is this too weird? Do you need to sit down?

EngineerJoe posted:

Yeah, it's for Rogers. You can try complaining on DSLreports to let them know that their poo poo is broken.

I'm on the unlimited package, so it doesn't matter to me really but I'll still let them know at some point it's reporting higher than it should.

# ¿ Feb 20, 2014 12:32

A c E: Jun 18, 2007; Is this weird? Is this too weird? Do you need to sit down?

Thinking about switching to Start.ca from TekSavvy. For $20 less a month, I can go from unlimited 45/4Mbps to unlimited 45/10Mbps. My only concern with switching is the unlimited policy I found on start's website. It's possible TekSavvy does the same thing and I've just never noticed it but I don't want to get limited on the days where I go through a lot of data.

Start.ca Unlimited Policy posted:

Unlimited usage policy

Our unlimited usage plans are great for customers who don't want to worry about watching a meter to avoid overage fees.

As these plans are not designed to be dedicated connections nor for continuous 24/7 use, in order to keep our network fast and robust at all times we have created an unlimited usage policy that ensures fair access to the network for all users. Specifically, if a customer on an unlimited plan is disproportionately contributing to network congestion, then they may have their network priority temporarily adjusted to ensure the quality of the network for other customers during peak periods.

With our unlimited usage policy we take the worry out of overages and still maintain a fast and reliable network.

Are their any heavy bandwidth users on Start.ca on Ontario? Have you had any issues with this?

I don't max my connection constantly, but I definitely can go through a lot of bandwidth in a day and don't want my VoIP or Netflix effected just because I downloaded a 20GB game that morning.

# ¿ Mar 9, 2014 22:47

A c E: Jun 18, 2007; Is this weird? Is this too weird? Do you need to sit down?

teethgrinder posted:

I saw a lot of people whining about TekSavvy last night, but yeah, didn't seem to have much to do with them in this case.

Yeah my TekSavvy was down last night due to Rogers. They gave us some connectivity after 30-60 minutes but still pretty unreliable and speed tests were coming back with 1-2mbps at most. Everything was back to normal for me this morning.

# ¿ Mar 30, 2014 17:53

A c E: Jun 18, 2007; Is this weird? Is this too weird? Do you need to sit down?

slidebite posted:

Pretty sure it was.

gently caress Telus. Really. They're doing everything they can to fight streaming. Sure, streaming alone it's probably good enough for all but the most hardcore but hopefully you don't have to reinstall windows or download several games from PSN or Steam in the same month.

Yeah I didn't switch to start.ca because the first day I got my Xbone, I downloaded something like 70GB , plus my girlfriend got a new game on Steam. I don't want to deal with my traffic having less priority because of poo poo like that. I'll pay TekSavvy more for a solid connection with no throttling.

A week later we both got the Diablo upgrade at 25GB/each, then I lost my Steam hard drive and did something like 150GB in a day getting ~~it all~~ some back.

# ¿ Apr 10, 2014 18:15

A c E: Jun 18, 2007; Is this weird? Is this too weird? Do you need to sit down?

slush posted:

PC Financial has no fee daily banking accounts and credit cards. You can access any of the PC Financial services via CIBC's machines at no cost.

Don't use PC.

I had a company trying to take money out of my account and PC wouldn't do anything to stop them. After the first attempt and the first NSF charge I called them to put a stop to it. PC told me they couldn't stop them and offered me no help at all. I was told the only thing I could do was pay them $25 to put a stop payment on each attempt but that was only if I had the $600 in my account available for the company to try to steal. I got two more NFS charges before I was able to transfer my banking elsewhere.

They may have no fees for daily use but they definitely make the money up elsewhere. $40 NFS charges and unwilling to do anything to help me.

# ¿ May 8, 2014 15:29

A c E: Jun 18, 2007; Is this weird? Is this too weird? Do you need to sit down?

Zigmidge posted:

Did you fill out some kind of pre-auth agreement because nobody can just "try to take money out" without that.

It was my insurance company. They tried to increase my rates, I decided to cancel before the rates would be applied. Either the broker or someone at the insurance company hosed up because they tried to charge me after my policy ended. 3 times within 4 days ($120 of NSF charges, which was great). I spent hours arguing with PC, my broker and the insurance company and everyone single one of them was useless and blamed the others.
It doesn't matter either way, PC should have helped me. They could have easily changed my account number or done anything, but all they told me was basically your SOL, pay our fees anyways. I switched to RBC and they were amazed PC did nothing to help.

This was 4 or so years ago, so maybe they are better. I would never go back to them though.

Edit: Rewording.

A c E fucked around with this message at 01:55 on May 9, 2014

# ¿ May 9, 2014 01:44

A c E: Jun 18, 2007; Is this weird? Is this too weird? Do you need to sit down?

EngineerJoe posted:

Not really, Rogers pushed new plan tiers out to TPIA's and they're really expensive.

Anyone on TekSavvy's unlimited 45/4 through rCable should upgrade to unlimited 60/10, as it's slightly cheaper.

I don't really care about the faster download, was just happy for a upload bump. Glad I finally have a decent speed.

A c E fucked around with this message at 04:31 on Jun 23, 2014

# ¿ Jun 23, 2014 04:28

A c E: Jun 18, 2007; Is this weird? Is this too weird? Do you need to sit down?

Jan posted:

They keep sending me these loving flyers "To the resident of (my address)", pretending they have a better offer. I've tried e-mailing them to tell them to gently caress off, but it's pretty much impossible to contact them either by e-mail or phone if you're not a customer.

Rogers does the to me. I get at least two a month and its been going on since I moved in almost 3 years ago. I've yelled but because they "aren't actually addressed to me" they won't stop it. The 'amazing deals' for the 'fastest internet in Canada' is always way worse than what I can get through Start or Teksavvy. They always always leave out useful information too. Half the time they don't even list the actual speeds and rarely if ever do they list the datacap.

# ¿ Jul 3, 2014 18:08

A c E: Jun 18, 2007; Is this weird? Is this too weird? Do you need to sit down?

Jan posted:

My parents wanted Internet access at their secondary home in that area (just a bit farther west) and pretty much had the choice between dial-up and satellite. They currently are using Xplornet satellite, which has even more outrageous transfer rates and bandwidth caps than the big 2 in Quebec, but are otherwise pretty happy with it.

Yeah Xplornet has lovely caps. My work is stuck using them for one of our sites, its our only option. We have constant issues with it cutting out since we are using 3g, but we can't upgrade to 4g because the only option for businesses is a plan with a cap of 100GB. When you go over that you are throttled to dial-up speeds. We only do about 100gb/month but couldn't chance going dialup speeds for a few days at the end of each month. It's a pretty absurd business offering.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 20:28

A c E: Jun 18, 2007; Is this weird? Is this too weird? Do you need to sit down?

37th Chamber posted:

Team unlimited, be incorrect as much as you want Teksavvy

TSI should really stop billing against their system though, its like nonstop posts about discrepancies of numbers.

Team unlimited is the best.

That said, I did send them a few months of bandwidth data from my router since their records were way higher for my usage. This was for rCable and after their system went live.

Though I admit I haven't actually tested to ensure that my routers reporting is 100% accurate.

# ¿ Jul 23, 2014 00:23

A c E: Jun 18, 2007; Is this weird? Is this too weird? Do you need to sit down?

37th Chamber posted:

Your routers numbers will always be MARGINALLY lower than what TSI reports, overhead/dropped traffic/line noise etc, but when its getting in to gigabytes of difference obviously something is up.

Yeah it was in the gigabytes. Tens of gigabytes higher on certain days.

# ¿ Jul 23, 2014 13:06

A c E: Jun 18, 2007; Is this weird? Is this too weird? Do you need to sit down?

eXXon posted:

Rogers has managed to gently caress with my Start connection before, but they fixed it themselves before Start could arrange for a tech.

Then again, Rogers also disconnected my parents' cable entirely, and they've been on Rogers proper forever, so the only real difference with being on a 3rd party is that it might take longer to get a Robellus tech to admit it's their problem and actually fix it.

Yeah this seems to happen a lot. Rogers tech disabled my landlords Rogers internet when we moved in to the basemnet, while getting our TekSavvy lines set up. Apparently there were "no active accounts at our residence", despite my insistence that he was wrong. A tech came back a week later to reconnect the landlord and cut my TekSavvy line. The third visit they hooked up my line without disconnecting anything.

# ¿ Aug 10, 2014 14:34

A c E: Jun 18, 2007; Is this weird? Is this too weird? Do you need to sit down?

Yeah I assume Rogers employs some shady practices.

Any minor change to my TekSavvy services results in at least a day of outage. Literally every time I've made changes on rCable.
- change of speed resulted in 48 hours of down time
- modem upgrade resulted in 72 hours of downtime
- change of speed resulted in 24 hours of downtime

I now try to plan any changes around times where I will be away from home for a bit.

# ¿ Aug 10, 2014 17:01

A c E: Jun 18, 2007; Is this weird? Is this too weird? Do you need to sit down?

Yeah, I can't get more than 10mbps up. Even 20 would be a nice change.

# ¿ Mar 18, 2016 16:30

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# ¿ Apr 25, 2024 05:05

A c E: Jun 18, 2007; Is this weird? Is this too weird? Do you need to sit down?

EngineerJoe posted:

Slightly on-topic but does anyone know how to get Rogers to stop snail mailing me spam twice a month? It's addressed mail so Canada Post has to deliver it but it's addressed to "Resident". I have never had any service with Rogers.

You can't, I've tried.

I've been fighting this battle for 3 years. It started out with an addressed admail every month, along with a regular unaddressed one. After a year, I told them to stop sending the addressed one. Which resulted in me getting 2 per month, because Rogers. This year I got annoyed with them again and have been complaining more and I'm now up to 4 letters per month.

Every time I complain, after they argue that they can't stop them because they aren't addressed...even though they are. So eventually they say ok, we will make sure they stop but it might take up to X number of days for it to happen. I'm sure you can guess at what happens after the deadline, every time for the past few months.

The last response from them was

Rogers posted:

The letters should finally stop coming.

I received this email today:

"Hi

Address seq: ######, ######

######, ###### have already been inserted in Apr 2016 so they can�t be added to the Cold Kill list. Meanwhile, I�ve added the two new address seq into the Cold Kill Addressed List.

Postal code: ### ### was added to the Cold Kill unaddressed list previously.

Please kindly advise the customer that it will take up to two months for it to take effect as marketing materials are already in transit.

Tommy C
Senior Campaign Analyst"

Thank you for your patience. ^oc"

So far, I've received 3 more adverts since that message. I have very little faith that they will actually stop them this time as well. It sucks because Canada Post can't do anything and I can't find anyone else to complain to about it. I supposedly stopped all the unaddressed adverts for my postal code, but I don't get those anyways so who knows if they were lying about that as well.

# ¿ Jul 21, 2016 18:09

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > Canadian internet access gets shittier