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The Automator
Jan 16, 2009


I've seen it mentioned multiple places that there should be a gear thread so here we go!

This is me in all my gear, just so you know I really do know what I'm talking about :


Click here for the full 800x600 image.


I'm going to break the OP down into pieces that are generally used by people on this forum instead of going balls to the wall and talking about every piece of kit out there.

Chest rigs



Chest rigs are generally lower profile options to carry magazines and kit on your torso. Most are covered in PALS to facilitate in the attachment of MOLLE pouches. Many also have built in pouches for items such as rifle magazines or medical kits.

Some brands and models to consider:
Eagle Industries
Tactical Tailor
HSGI
London Bridge Trading
Mayflower Research and Consulting
Original SOE

MOLLE pouches



There's a MOLLE pouch built for just about anything you can think of. Obviously some are better quality than others.

For mag pouches, the most important consideration is magazine retention. Do you want a lid covering your magazines? If so, do you want it to attach via velcro or plastic buckle? Would you rather have bungee cord or elastic retaining your mag for quicker access?

MOLLE pouches often have straps built in to attach them to PALS webbing, but many do not. Alternatives include Malice Clips, Speed Clips, or even plastic zip ties.

Honestly, everyone and their loving mom makes pouches, so it would be ridiculous to list brands. Most of the shops linked above for chest rigs would also be good places to get pouches.


Holsters



We all know what a holster is. However, as some people may be new to the scene, I'll go ahead and break down the common types of holsters.

The three most commonly used materials to build holsters are Kydex, plastic, and leather.

Kydex is a thin plastic material molded by heating it and then shaping it around the gun. It's relatively strong, but the main advantage is how thin and light it is.

There's a whole bunch of ways to wear a holster, but to keep the post succinct, we'll just discuss IWB, OWB, and drop leg, since those will be the most applicable for our purposes.



IWB stands for 'inside waistband.' It's, you guessed it, a holster worn inside the waistband of your pants. IWB holsters are typically held in place with some sort of clip or loop that comes up over your waistband and secures to your belt.



OWB stands for 'outside waistband.' Pretty self-explanatory. OWB holsters are generally either secured with a paddle or belt loops. A paddle is a large, flat piece of material that usually seats inside your waistband and uses the tightness of your belt and leverage to hold the holster in place.



Drop leg holsters are normally worn on the upper thigh. They are secured to the belt by a strap, and normally have a strap or two that goes around your thigh to hold the holster in place. They're usually of very limited utility until the user has a chest rig or body armor on, which often makes it difficult to draw a gun from a belt mounted holster.

Many OWB and drop leg holsters have retention mechanisms built in. These are devices that both secure the gun against falling out as well as prevent someone else from taking your gun. Safariland's SLS and Blackhawk's SERPA system are examples.

There are literally hundreds of holster makers, but some top tier brands to consider are:
Raven Concealment
Blade-Tech
Safariland
Comp-Tac

Slings



Every pistol should have a holster and every rifle or shotgun should have a sling. We've come a long way from the leather GI sling and now have shitloads of choices.



Single point slings attach to the gun at a single point, normally where the gun's stock meets the receiver. They're designed not for comfort, but for speed and easier gun handling.



Two point slings attach to the gun at two points, normally at the front of the gun near the muzzle, and at the rear of the gun near the end of the stock. They're built primarily to carry the gun comfortably for long periods of time and may function as shooting aids by increasing the tension on the gun to hold it steady.



Three point slings are becoming increasingly obsolete, but they're still around and ideal for some types of guns. Three point slings typically attach to a gun at two points, but have a strap that runs down the length of the weapon, and a loop to wrap around your body.

Some popular sling choices are:
Magpul MS2
Vickers Combat Applications Sling
HK 3 Point Sling
OSOE Single Point Bungee Sling

First line belts



First line/battle/war belts are becoming an increasingly popular option to hold your equipment. The main benefit they have over chest rigs is that they're much lower profile and hold enough gear for a class or competition. They're often a little quicker to load from, though this can be mitigated with practice. They also get your kit off your chest so there's less potential for snags.

Popular belts include:
Blue Force Gear Modular Padded Belt
ICE Adjustable Battle Belt
VTAC Brokos Belt

--------------------------

I'm going to go ahead and wrap this post up. I plan to add more in the future, things like general belts, packs, bags, etc. If there's anything that should be there and isn't, please let me know.

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The Automator
Jan 16, 2009


Can't believe I forgot the loving thread tag.

sky shark
Jun 9, 2004

CHILD RAPE IS FINE WHEN I LIKE THE RAPIST

Crosspost in W&W

The Bananana
May 21, 2008

This is a metaphor, a Christian allegory. The fact that I have to explain to you that Jesus is the Warthog, and the Banana is drepanocytosis is just embarrassing for you.





sky shark posted:

Crosspost in W&W




anywho, I appreciate a gear thread. So tell me, who makes the best MOLLE shotgun scabbard?

Black Stormy
Apr 1, 2003



The Automator posted:


First line belts



How do mags not fall out of those? The velcro trick?

Scratch Monkey
Oct 25, 2010

Proč bychom se netěšili když nám Pán Bůh zdraví dá?


I think they either have a plastic insert or are just sew together to very tight tolerances. I've seen pouches like this before there the force of gravity and running aren't enough to dislodge a mag but a stiff pull will.

The Automator
Jan 16, 2009


Black Stormy posted:

How do mags not fall out of those? The velcro trick?

Eagle makes a pouch that has a kydex insert:

Rifle pouch

Pistol pouch

Airbone Operation
Dec 22, 2007
Tosser

http://www.specopsbrand.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductID=12



I swear to god this is the best pack I have ever owned. I bought it back in 2005 and it has survived just about every imaginable situation and condition. Just down right rugged as hell.

Scratch Monkey
Oct 25, 2010

Proč bychom se netěšili když nám Pán Bůh zdraví dá?


http://www.tacticaltailor.com/modularoperatorpack.aspx

I just helped facilitate the purchase of this pack for a guy I know who is currently in Afghanistan. He really loves it. Uses it as an aid bag.

Atticus_1354
Dec 9, 2006

Don't you go near that dog, you understand? Don't go near him, he's just as dangerous dead as alive.


I have been thinking about a OSOE micro rig, mookie war rig light, or the VTAC brokos belt. Whatever I get needs to fit one OSOE 12ga pullout pouch and three HSGI taco pouches. Anyone have any thoughts on other rigs to look at?

Atticus_1354 fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Nov 2, 2010

The Automator
Jan 16, 2009


If you're only mounting those things, I would look into something like the OSOE Micro Rig, Tactical Tailor Mini-MAV, or maybe even this Eagle Industries SKD Rig if size isn't an issue.

If all you're mounting is the 4 pouches, I'd try to stick to the micro rigs myself.

Black Stormy
Apr 1, 2003



Does Safariland make a thigh rig for the G19 with TLR1 yet? Or is there anyone out there that does?

The Automator
Jan 16, 2009


Black Stormy posted:

Does Safariland make a thigh rig for the G19 with TLR1 yet? Or is there anyone out there that does?

Don't you have a Raven holster for the G19+TLR? If so, buy a decent MOLLE leg platform and rig it up to that.

I've seen people take the 1.75" OWB Kydex belt loops and heat them up and flatten them, then run those through PALS webbing.


Click here for the full 1000x669 image.



Click here for the full 600x896 image.


Raven actually had a prototype for a drop leg they gave to a couple people a couple years ago.


Click here for the full 1024x767 image.



Click here for the full 560x700 image.

Black Stormy
Apr 1, 2003



That is a good idea. Who makes such a platform?

The Automator
Jan 16, 2009


This guy would be PERFECT for doing that, plus it's about $60 cheaper than a Safariland. It won't be as stable or nice as a Safariland, but if they don't make a model you can use, what else are you going to do?

GunForumMeme
Apr 22, 2010


Black Stormy posted:

Does Safariland make a thigh rig for the G19 with TLR1 yet? Or is there anyone out there that does?

http://www.safariland.com/DutyGear/product.aspx?pid=6004


Pick any of the holsters listed, they will work with a Glock 19 and a TLR-1: http://www.opticsplanet.com/s/6004-2832/

(Caveat Emptor: Optics Planet is all drop shipped.)

Here is the Google Shopping page: http://www.google.com/products/cata...ved=0CDwQgggwAA

If you want a basic Safariland 6004 that will hold a Glock 19 with a TLR-1, any of the following pages will work. (FYI, the model number for a Safariland 6004 in Black that will hold a Glock 19 with a TLR-1 is "6004-2832-121".)

http://www.outdoorpros.com/Prod/Safariland-6004-2832-121-6004-Tactical-Holster-Black-RH-Glock-19-23-W-M3-Light/25535/Cat/1396
http://www.amazon.com/Tactical-Holster-Black-Glock-Light/dp/B001LZ76MI
http://www.amazon.com/Tactical-Holster-Black-Glock-Light/dp/B001LZ76MI
http://www.katerno.com/detail.php?s=80802
http://www.chiefsupply.com/Duty_Gear/Tactical_Holsters/Synthetic/6004

EDIT: when you have a holster that just says with work with a Streamlight M3 light and doesn't say anything about a TLR-1, I'm pretty damned sure that it will work with a TLR-1. My holster I wear for work is a Safariland 6360, and the holster says on it will work with M3, TLR-1, et cetera, and I use a TLR-1. Caveat: I've been wrong a lot before. I'm actually going to try to call Safariland now just to double check, because on optics planet and outdoor pros it lists the 6004-2832-121 as working for the Streamlight M3, but nothing for the TLR-1.

EDIT EDIT: I called Safariland to verify. Turns out I may have been wrong. If it doesn't say it's compatible with a TLR-1 in the product description, don't buy it.

GunForumMeme fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Nov 2, 2010

B4Ctom1
Oct 5, 2003

OVERWORKED COCK


Slippery Tilde

tell us about affordable body armor in this thread?

Black Stormy
Apr 1, 2003



GunForumMeme posted:


EDIT: when you have a holster that just says with work with a Streamlight M3 light and doesn't say anything about a TLR-1, I'm pretty damned sure that it will work with a TLR-1. My holster I wear for work is a Safariland 6360, and the holster says on it will work with M3, TLR-1, et cetera, and I use a TLR-1. Caveat: I've been wrong a lot before. I'm actually going to try to call Safariland now just to double check, because on optics planet and outdoor pros it lists the 6004-2832-121 as working for the Streamlight M3, but nothing for the TLR-1.

I noticed that as well. Safariland's site lists only the M3, but for the 6005-2382, opticsplanet lists Fits: Glock - 19,19C,23,23C,25,32, 32C with ITI Streamlight M3, TLR-1 or Insight XTI Procyon.

So I guess let me know what Safariland says.

GunForumMeme
Apr 22, 2010


B4Ctom1 posted:

tell us about affordable body armor in this thread?
Concealable: I wear Galls brand armor at work, which is made by Point Blank. It's about the cheapest you can order that you can trust. Be advised, it is not all that comfortable. You will sweat. A lot. Your vest will smell. If you wear it for 40+ hours a week, you will need to wash it at least once a month. I recommend buying concealable armor with an anti-microbial carrier. If you have money to spend, a local law enforcement dealer will be able to fit you for a Second Chance vest that will be a touch more comfortable.

The Bananana
May 21, 2008

This is a metaphor, a Christian allegory. The fact that I have to explain to you that Jesus is the Warthog, and the Banana is drepanocytosis is just embarrassing for you.





B4Ctom1 posted:

tell us about affordable body armor in this thread?

Avoid the bullets.

GunForumMeme
Apr 22, 2010


Black Stormy posted:

I noticed that as well. Safariland's site lists only the M3, but for the 6005-2382, opticsplanet lists Fits: Glock - 19,19C,23,23C,25,32, 32C with ITI Streamlight M3, TLR-1 or Insight XTI Procyon.

So I guess let me know what Safariland says.

I just got off the phone with Safariland. According to the hot sounding chick on the other end of the phone (I really need to get out more), the 6004-2832-121 might not work. She only saw it listed with the Streamlight M3, and actually could recall some of that holster being sent back to them due to a possible incompatibility with the TLR-1.

EDIT: But the optics planet description 6004-2832-551, which should be an IDENTICAL holster, save for the difference in color being Flat Dark Earth, says it can work with a ITI Streamlight M3, TLR-1 or Insight XTI Procyon.

Personally, if you wanted one in tactical black, I would, myself, just get the 6004-2832-121 and try it out at home, but I would be DAMNED sure I bought from a reputable dealer that will allow me to return it, no questions asked.

GunForumMeme fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Nov 2, 2010

The Automator
Jan 16, 2009


B4Ctom1 posted:

tell us about affordable body armor in this thread?

I don't know a lot about body armor, but if someone wants to write something up I'll certainly put it in the OP.

Black Stormy
Apr 1, 2003



GunForumMeme posted:

I just got off the phone with Safariland. According to the hot sounding chick on the other end of the phone (I really need to get out more), the 6004-2832-121 might not work. She only saw it listed with the Streamlight M3, and actually could recall some of that holster being sent back to them due to incompatibility with the TLR-1.

Yea, I don't know. It's weird. Maybe I'll order one and see if it fits. I can always return it, right?

GunForumMeme
Apr 22, 2010


Black Stormy posted:

Yea, I don't know. It's weird. Maybe I'll order one and see if it fits. I can always return it, right?

Check the post you quoted. I edited it. Basically, if you buy it, I'd recommend that you buy from a reputable dealer that will allow return, no questions asked.

Edit: I checked the dimensions, the TLR-1 SHOULD be smaller than an M3, therefore I am deducing by my backwoods Pennsylvania High School education that it should fit, given the TLR-1 will be going into a hole designed to accommodate a SIGHTLY larger light.

GunForumMeme fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Nov 2, 2010

B4Ctom1
Oct 5, 2003

OVERWORKED COCK


Slippery Tilde

GunForumMeme posted:

Concealable: I wear Galls brand armor at work, which is made by Point Blank. It's about the cheapest you can order that you can trust. Be advised, it is not all that comfortable. You will sweat. A lot. Your vest will smell. If you wear it for 40+ hours a week, you will need to wash it at least once a month. I recommend buying concealable armor with an anti-microbial carrier. If you have money to spend, a local law enforcement dealer will be able to fit you for a Second Chance vest that will be a touch more comfortable.

This is a good start, but I meant one of the kind that molle stuff can be attached to like with mag pouches etc.

Naramyth
Jan 22, 2009

Australia cares about cunts. Including this one.

GunForumMeme posted:

According to the hot sounding chick on the other end of the phone (I really need to get out more)

This is always a trap.

Just a point of praise to The Automator, this is already an informative thread and I will most likely be getting a war belt once competition starts up again.

The Automator
Jan 16, 2009


B4Ctom1 posted:

This is a good start, but I meant one of the kind that molle stuff can be attached to like with mag pouches etc.

I'll make a write up about plate carriers tonight, but it won't cover the armor that goes into them.

The Automator fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Nov 2, 2010

Black Stormy
Apr 1, 2003



Naramyth posted:

This is always a trap.

Just a point of praise to The Automator, this is already an informative thread and I will most likely be getting a war belt once competition starts up again.

I am leaning this way as well. I don't really like the idea of running around in a chest rig. I can throw my mag pouches on it, a drop leg, or even my Raven, and maybe a dump pouch. That's all I really need.

The Automator
Jan 16, 2009


A lot of people are moving in the belt direction. One of the keys is to get a good belt under it. I recommend a rigger's belt with a Cobra buckle of whatever make you prefer.

They make a lot of sense for someone that doesn't need to carry a full combat load but just some mags and a dump pouch and med kit or something.

Black Stormy
Apr 1, 2003



That BROKOS... Does it come with the belt, or just the padded part? I didn't see anything in the description, but I might be retarded.

LavistaSays
Dec 25, 2005



Been using a MOLLE Belt with suspenders for a while now. It works really well. I use the Eagle Industries Padded Molle Belt. It's great but as mentioned in order for it to really shine you need to buy a duty belt with some sort of stiffener so that it doesn't flop around while you wear it.

Easily carries 4-6 M4 mags, 2-3 pistol mags, handgun, water bottle, med kit.

The Automator
Jan 16, 2009


Black Stormy posted:

That BROKOS... Does it come with the belt, or just the padded part? I didn't see anything in the description, but I might be retarded.

I would say PROBABLY not, but I'd suggest calling or emailing them to confirm before you order.

LavistaSays
Dec 25, 2005



I looked back through the OP and i'm suggesting you take OSOE out of the original post until the owner coughs up the $500 that he owes me, or ships me the rig that I ordered from him THREE YEARS AGO. Or at least put some sort of buyer-beware, that periodically John Willis of OSOE just arbitrarily decides "Sorry guy but i'm never going to fill your order"

E: For that matter a "Caveat Emptor" on the entire cottage gear Making industry, and that if you order a custom piece you shouldn't expect it in a timely manner..

Iron Squid
Nov 23, 2005

by Ozmaugh


Why do all these vendor's websites look like they were originally made at Geocities? I'm amazed none of them have a spinning, flaming skull.

The Automator
Jan 16, 2009


LavistaSays posted:

I looked back through the OP and i'm suggesting you take OSOE out of the original post until the owner coughs up the $500 that he owes me, or ships me the rig that I ordered from him THREE YEARS AGO. Or at least put some sort of buyer-beware, that periodically John Willis of OSOE just arbitrarily decides "Sorry guy but i'm never going to fill your order"

E: For that matter a "Caveat Emptor" on the entire cottage gear Making industry, and that if you order a custom piece you shouldn't expect it in a timely manner..

Yeah, OSOE has been a real shithead about things like that in the past. If you're interested in ordering OSOE gear I would STRONGLY recommend going through TacticalResponseGear.com.

In fact, in all honesty, I would recommend against ordering directly from the manufacturer a lot of the time. You can usually find better deals and get things a lot faster by ordering from a dealer.

PookBear
Nov 1, 2008


Nobody exists on purpose, nobody belongs anywhere, everybody's going to die.




conviently doubles as a noose for when you have to tactically commit suicide.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

So... what about Blackhawk?



The Rat
Aug 29, 2004

You will find no one to help you here. Beth DuClare has been dissected and placed in cryonic storage.



I'd like to throw in my two cents here.

As mentioned in the OP, the only purpose of a drop leg holster is to clear body armor. It doesn't help anything beyond that. Most drop legs are actually too low. The ideal point for them is around pocket level, so that the bottom of the holster touches mid-palm on your firing hand when your arms are hanging at your sides. Another option that I prefer is getting a drop attachment for a regular holster that puts it that low, without having to bother with the leg strap. I've been using G-Code holsters for about a year and really like the duty belt drop piece. Puts the holster exactly where it needs to be, without any leg straps.

Serpa holsters are crap. The button release can get clogged with debris and fail to release the pistol, and can also lead to NDs into one's leg. Unfortunately, they're also the most well-marketed holster right now.

Regarding body armor, I don't know it all that well in-depth, but my understanding is that you've got soft armor (kevlar) and hard plates (usually ceramic or steel.) Most good soft armor is rated to stop pistol rounds. Hard plates can be rated to stop regular rifle rounds all the way up to 7.62 AP rounds. It is extremely important to make note if your hard plates are ICW (in conjunction with) or stand alone. ICW plates require soft armor backing in order to be effective. If it doesn't say stand alone on the plate's label, assume it isn't.

Someone like Harry in Rio would be way better at explaining the specific differences between armor types, but that's my ground-level grunt view of it.

In terms of armor carriers, there's a ton of options out there. The more traditional MOLLE vests like the Eagle CIRAS and Paraclete RAV tend to be the largest and heaviest, but provide the most protection. They take BALCS or SPEAR-cut soft armor, which is large and expensive.
Lighter options include plate carriers like the Paraclete SOHPC (my current pick) or the newer Mayflower carriers that take concealment cut armor. What works best for you will depend on your mission and body type. In general, lighter and streamlined is better.

Where I buy my gear and armor stuff:
Grey Group Training
OP Tactical

My setup as of a few months ago, linked because I already img-posted in another gear thread and don't feel like spamming it again:
Left side
Right side
Back

That was my ideal setup, which unfortunately got ruined when I had to turn in my Sig and get issued a Glock. Since the PX here only had Serpa holsters, that's what I had to go with. Ironic, I know, but I'm planning on leaving this job next month, so I'm not that arsed about getting my Glock G-code holster sent out. Had to ditch my Eagle FB pistol mag pouch too since it's the version for metal-bodied mags and Glock mags are too thick. (That's what she said.) (No she didn't, you're Asian.) (Oh drat.)


I'm not a gear queer, I'm metro-tactical.

LavistaSays
Dec 25, 2005



The Automator posted:

Yeah, OSOE has been a real shithead about things like that in the past. If you're interested in ordering OSOE gear I would STRONGLY recommend going through TacticalResponseGear.com.

In fact, in all honesty, I would recommend against ordering directly from the manufacturer a lot of the time. You can usually find better deals and get things a lot faster by ordering from a dealer.

I could go onto another tirade about how James Yeager/TRG is just as big of a scumbag as John Willis, but thats really for another discussion. He basically deletes and permabans anybody who comes onto his site with a negative complaint/bad customer service issue, while totally pampering a local to him/highly vocal on his forum group of fanboys. They spout off so much about all the crap he does for them, and he and his mods brush the bad press under the rug.

It's a shame because his company does a lot for the shooting industry as a whole and are highly reccomended from a training standpoint, but my personal interactions with Tactical Response, as a business entity have been entirely shady, I would never put a dollar into his pocket. Even after I PM'd multiple moderators/other guys on the site via back channels they basically each told me "Hey sorry everything you're telling us is probably true but James/John sign our checks so i'm not about to bite the hand that feeds me"

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Atticus_1354
Dec 9, 2006

Don't you go near that dog, you understand? Don't go near him, he's just as dangerous dead as alive.


The Rat posted:

I've been using G-Code holsters for about a year and really like the duty belt drop piece. Puts the holster exactly where it needs to be, without any leg straps.

Thanks for the holster recommendation. I have been casually looking around at Beretta holsters that rode lower. I had pretty well decided that safariland was going to be my best bet, but I like the looks of these with the drop piece.

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