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a life less posted:So, to reiterate, your goal should be for him to ignore other strange dogs. Work on off-leash control and recalls (which it sounds like you're doing... continue 'em). Ask for eye contact/focus when around other dogs. Hopefully one of those books will set you on your way. Once you've desensitized him you might be able to successfully reintroduce off leash greetings of strange dogs, but it might be a ways off. Thanks for your help! I'll get these books and add your suggestions to my plan.
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Dec 5, 2010 18:24
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a life less posted:I taught Cohen using a slightly different method though, so if you're having trouble with that, try this. I feel that this is more of a way to teach walking at heel instead of loose leash walking, which is both good and bad. Awesome, I've got Cosmo Heeling all through my apartment with me now (as long as there are treats of course). Going to work up the distances and distractions gradually. I did skip the leash post because Cosmo is good on a leash, though I've gone back over now to get an idea of how to incorporate some of it into Heel. By next spring (when they hold the trials again) I think Cosmo will be ready for his first Rally trial!
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Dec 5, 2010 23:03
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I have a silly question about the point of "free shaping." Do you guys use command words for that or just... let them at it? Do you name the "two feet in the box" trick something? Or is it just designed purely to stimulate the dogs brain (and everything else that goes along with it)? And I am currently working on my small-dog/new person/omg something is there wtf -aggressive dog using counter-conditioning. It slow goings but I cannot afford $400+ 6 week sessions unfortunately. If it boils down to it, I'll do it but this seems to be working fairly well so far.
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Dec 6, 2010 05:47
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a life less posted:Unfortunately there's not much you can do to effectively curb this behaviour. Once your dog has ascertained that the counter is more rewarding than abiding by the rules this becomes a very difficult habit to break. Thank you so much for this! I emailed my parents about what you said, and I think it will help. My parents have a beagle they bought from a pet store and so she doesn't really have a beagly...temperament I guess? It's the laziest dog I've ever seen (plus she's overweight, which I feel contributes to it, but I got my parents to switch to TotW, and she's lost weight, and can jump again! Which my parents are super excited for.) So they feel that every dog should be like their dog (Only dog they've ever owned), and when my dog jumps up on counters, and their dog doesn't, they think it's a problem with how I train my dog, and not a difference in personalities. When I adopted Ike, they said they found him on the streets, so he was already used to foraging for food in garbage cans ect. It really shows because he won't really eat stuff he isn't supposed to if people are around, he only does it when you aren't looking. He doesn't beg for food at all (whereas my parent's beagle does cuz my mom keeps feeding her scraps), he just sneaks it when no one is around which is hard to control. I locked Ike in the spare bedroom during the party, but my mom let him out, ("He looked sad and was whining!") so I think I might keep that approach, and give him bones/kongs to occupy him, and train my parents to not spoil/reprimand my dog. I guess it really is more of a training the parents than training the dog situation.  Thanks for all your help though, I've got Ike to leave food alone when I'm not in the room for about 10 sec so far!
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Dec 6, 2010 06:32
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sweetheartjess posted:I have a silly question about the point of "free shaping." Do you guys use command words for that or just... let them at it? Do you name the "two feet in the box" trick something? Or is it just designed purely to stimulate the dogs brain (and everything else that goes along with it)? It really depends on what works for you and your dog. Shaping purists won't give any feedback aside from the click -- no encouraging words -- and they get their dogs to problem solve what it is they want. They have a clear vision of what they want their dogs to end up doing. I tend to give a lot of feedback to keep my dog engaged. I'll throw out a lot of happy "try again"s etc. I sit my dog down and ask her "what are you going to do?" and then she starts offering behaviours. So, I guess that phrase is my command. I didn't intentionally teach it, but that's what my dog learned the cue was. If you're just starting out don't bother saying anything, just click/treat if the dog glances over in the direction of the object you want it to interact with. One thing about all dog training is that you don't really name a behaviour until the dog is doing it reliably. Prior to the naming, you build your behaviours through luring, capturing, shaping etc. So, say you get the "two feet in the box" trick and you want to use it again in the future. By all means name it and get it under stimulus control. (When you do start naming behaviours, say the word as the dog performs the action. Not before.) Even if you don't name it, your dog is likely to offer the two feet in the box behaviour the next time you bring the box out since it will remember that was a rewarding position. So, it's really up to you.
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Dec 6, 2010 14:18
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a life less posted:I'd probably start with Click to Calm by Emma Parsons and Fight by Jean Donaldson. It's situations like this that make it very difficult for me to support dog parks. Comet obviously was having issues that were difficult to detect and being put in a situation with rude dogs pushed him to feel the need to defend himself. Good dog socialization can be hard to find, but you're almost guaranteed on a fairly short timeline to have a bad experience at a dog park with lasting consequences. It seems like the only dogs that do well over a long time are the headstrong dopes where nothing phases them. Personally, I don't think you should feel bad that Cosmo doesn't do well at the parks and you should just back off and stick to less problematic environments.
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Dec 6, 2010 17:50
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a life less posted:It really depends on what works for you and your dog. Gotcha. I guess that makes more sense now that I'm not tired, haha. I do similar things with mine. Except I don't necessarily quantify it as training... I guess it is though. Like, Phoenix will see my roommate's cat and want to play, do the playful bow and make this wookie noise (lol) trying to get Ariel's (cat) attention. So, I started saying "kitty!" when she bows/makes the noise and I'm trying to get her to make the wookie noise on command. So far, she knows "kitty!" means "find one of my roommate's cats!" LOL I need to isolate the wookie noise somehow, I guess I could use my clicker. Haha. I've never heard that you're not supposed name a behavior until they do it reliably. Obviously you don't name it from the get-go (cause "sit" sounds exactly the same as "encyclopedia") but once you've got the attention / look at me thing down, wouldn't you want to introduce the verbiage/signage as early as reasonably possible?
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Dec 6, 2010 17:59
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Saveremreve posted:It's situations like this that make it very difficult for me to support dog parks. Comet obviously was having issues that were difficult to detect and being put in a situation with rude dogs pushed him to feel the need to defend himself. Good dog socialization can be hard to find, but you're almost guaranteed on a fairly short timeline to have a bad experience at a dog park with lasting consequences. It seems like the only dogs that do well over a long time are the headstrong dopes where nothing phases them. Agree- Phoenix is new/small-dog aggressive for the most part, regardless of how neutral the territory is. Right now her trainer and I are working on distracting her with treats when a foreign dog walks by, comes to say hello to me (she's very jealous), etc. However, I don't expect miracles, as she was a stray until about 4 months. She was found roadside by herself, so I am pretty sure she wasn't properly socialized with her siblings / with any other dogs. I think her aggression stems from having to fight to survive "in the wild," so to speak. It's going to take a lot more than treats to change her mentality if that's the case. For now, I only bring her to off-leash parks we are familiar with where there are mostly larger dogs she's met before with looooots of room and a body of water, where she can be distracted by me easily. She sort-of attacked a friend of mine's corgi when we were camping about 2 months ago, and that was the thing that really made me want to pursue something to alter her behavior. I don't think there's anything wrong with limiting a dog's socialization with strangers (K9 or otherwise) while s/he's still in the beginning stages of training for aggression / socialization. You need to address the aggression before the socialization can occur.
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Dec 6, 2010 18:09
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Saveremreve posted:Personally, I don't think you should feel bad that Cosmo doesn't do well at the parks and you should just back off and stick to less problematic environments. Eek, think you mixed our dogs up there. Even though I have run into a few issues at the dog park, thankfully they haven't had a lasting impression on Cosmo. I am going to sign up at a member-only dog park though, where all dogs are temperament tested. Because I do want to work on training Cosmo around other dogs, ie Distractions other than bowls of stinky awesome meat on the floor, and my wife doing things around the apartment. And a dog park is perfect for training while having the distractions of OMG NEED TO PLAY RIGHT NOW.
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Dec 6, 2010 18:44
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sweetheartjess posted:I've never heard that you're not supposed name a behavior until they do it reliably. Obviously you don't name it from the get-go (cause "sit" sounds exactly the same as "encyclopedia") but once you've got the attention / look at me thing down, wouldn't you want to introduce the verbiage/signage as early as reasonably possible? The reason, for me, is twofold. One, it's best to keep things as simple as you can for the dog while it's learning. Why rush to add a cue when the dog is still figuring things out? Dogs are much more accomplished at understanding physical cues than verbal, so play to their strengths while keeping distractions lower. Once the dog is performing the behaviour consistently it's the better opportunity to start introducing the word. Two, you can poison your cue. Ever hear someone calling for their dog to come at the dogpark, while their dog happily ignores them? "Sparky, come! Come! Sparky come! Come! Come!" The word (and the dog's name) are becoming white noise to the dog since there is no reinforcement occurring to relate the word to the action in the dog's mind. Some people can poison a cue so badly that a dog will never respond to a particular word and the handler has to use a different one to get the desired behaviour. This is an extreme example of cue poisoning, but essentially you want your dog to try to understand everything you're saying, and not write anything off as background noise.
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Dec 6, 2010 19:01
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I suppose that as a general rule of thumb (for me) I wouldn't try to train my dog while at a dog park, unless it was more advanced training, was with a trainer and the goal was to use distractions as a test. I dunno though /shrug
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Dec 6, 2010 19:48
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I only plan on teaching him some Heel and Rally commands while there are 3 or 4 other dogs there. Its wintertime and not a lot of people take their dogs out, so its a good time to go when chances are there may be only 1 other person there. Its also the only place I can try to train him stuff like heel while in the presence of other dogs (besides on walks), unless I want to drive an hour into the country to my parents house.
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Dec 6, 2010 20:04
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RizieN posted:Eek, think you mixed our dogs up there. Even though I have run into a few issues at the dog park, thankfully they haven't had a lasting impression on Cosmo. I am going to sign up at a member-only dog park though, where all dogs are temperament tested. Ah apologies, I've been very behind on threads and reading a lot at once. I also had the sense that generally speaking the advice applies pretty generally. So sorry for casting aspersions on Cosmo! I think generally speaking people should be more aware of the dangers of dog parks and not define their dogs happiness by whether or not it's good for them. It'd be like saying everyone was cut out to be the life of the party and there's no room for wallflowers.
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Dec 7, 2010 00:02
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This is Lee. I wanna adopt him. I thought he was a fearful, dangerous dog that might never have a happy, boring canine life.  He ain't. Lee doesn't like strangers. Eye contact with a stranger sets him off, and possibly not recognizing someone's smell could make him growl at someone he trusts. I can't bring him home for over a month, but in that time I'd like to work on making him less aggressive toward unusual people. I'm thinking I could bring him up to the edge of his pen when someone walks by and give him a treat as soon as he notices them, and more as long as he stays calm. Like this:  If I can get some people to throw a ball from over the fence for him, I'll add that in too, since he likes fetch more than food. When Lee gets aggressive, he never behaves like he wants to fight you, his growl is always more "I'm watching you, don't try anything." I guess. Dog vocal moods seem like human ones to me. So, good idea? Thoughts, advice? Start using a clicker with him right away instead of just treats?
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Dec 8, 2010 09:16
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With a clicker you might be able to pick up and reinforce small things which using only treats might miss, like short moments when Lee isn’t growling, glances in your direction or calming behaviors/displacement behaviors which can be really small and quick like blinking, looking away, yawning, stretching, sniffing etc. If I were you, I’d use the clicker, but I’m sure you can do well with just using treats. I’m really pleased to hear you’re thinking of adopting Lee!
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Dec 8, 2010 11:11
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Wulfolme posted:This is Lee. We are working on similar things with my dog who is set off by proximity and eye contact, especially in 'her' territory. Giving treats when he sees someone is called counter-conditioning, which you'll see around here a lot. Definitely use a clicker because it is fast and accurate and tells the dog 'treat is on the way!'. Depending on the level of reaction, what we do is, if puppy is sub-threshold, but really upset, we just shove treats in her mouth continuously. If she's just sort of barking and warning things off, then we ask her to sit and then shove treats in her mouth while she's being calm. This is no longer pure counter-conditioning because we've asked her to do something, but it's a good step, especially if your dog is a jumper as well as a barker and growler. Eventually you teach the dog a focus command and then bonus points for looking at you. You can also start training an 'ignore' or 'leave it' command away from other people. We started out with a leave it where she had to leave off a treat or food before she could have it. But now we're also doing ignore where if we tell her to ignore something, she's supposed to forget it exists. We're starting by putting down one of her favorite treats and then asking her to ignoring it. If she looks at us instead of the treat, we reward her with a better treat and she never gets the original treat. The idea is that you should eventually be able to tell the dog to ignore any object, like an upsetting person, and they'll not pay attention to it and look at you for directions instead. It's also good if they like to pick up all the trash the neighbors leave around. 
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Dec 8, 2010 14:40
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Ooh, I love this thread. Shaping is so much. I have a few questions, one regarding the clicker and one not. My dogs each have the clicker charged. When I'm wanting to work one on one instead of with them, I usually take the one I'm going to work with and either go outside or go into a room away from the rest. I guess I didn't really consciously think about it until my sister was visiting a few weeks ago. She saw a clicker hanging next to the door and had no idea what it was. She picked up, clicked, and bam - the thundering sound of my dogs rushing towards her, haha. It made me wonder about working with one dog in front of another. Should I find different noises to serve for the different dogs? I don't want the clicker noise to become meaningless for them, but I also don't want to take my attention away from whoever I've working with by giving someone else treats. Generally I'll probably continue to work in one on one situations, away from the other dogs, but it seems like something I ought to think about. My second question is mostly just asking what I should have done differently, or what I should do differently in the future, if it happens again. Flynn is some sort of lab mix, for size reference. He's about 26" at the shoulder. (The family that dropped him off of the pound claimed that he was a purebred lab, but it looks like someone put him through a taffy puller, if that were the case, haha. xD He's several inches taller than my foster-lab, and quite a bit longer and more gangly. His face and coat are also wrong, but that's neither here nor there.) He's also a bit of a lightweight, at 65lbs. Flynn is very social with other dogs, but is also what I affectionately consider to be a great big wuss. He doesn't have a whole lot of confidence and is nervous about just about everything. It takes him a while to stop being intimidated by other dogs, but he likes them so he is usually eager to make friends. I was walking Flynn a few nights ago. A malamute that lives down the street had apparently broken loose, and came tearing towards us. Flynn saw him first and skittered back into my legs. My only experience with this dog has been him barking at my weimaraner from a distance before, so I wasn't sure what to expect. I positioned Flynn behind me, and stood between him and the other dog. The malamute was entirely focused on Flynn, so I made some sort of noise, trying to get his attention on me. (I think I said Hey? Or it could have just been unhappy and disapproving noises, I'm really not sure. I'm afraid I wasn't really thinking, just reacting.) He completely ignored me and kept on towards us, and then tried to go around me to get to Flynn. I played goal keeper with him for a while, until he got bored and sat down and finally looked at me. He started wagging his tail at me, but any time Flynn and I tried to move, he went back to trying to get at Flynn's face. There was a bit of growling, but it was mostly just quiet grumbling, and I didn't let him get around me. (He did stick his nose between my knees to sniff at Flynn once. I allowed it until he started growling and then shut him off.) I managed to get the two blocks home a few steps at a time. I kept myself between Flynn and the malamute and walked until the other dog started trying to go around me again. Then I would play goal keeper until he stopped. He was perfectly friendly with me, wagging his tail once he could break focus from Flynn and super begging for petting. I was trying to talk nicely to him to keep him focused on me and not my dog, and to try and keep him from getting tense. I'm a bit embarrassed to say that I have no idea how Flynn was reacting to this. He wasn't pulling at the leash, trying to move from behind me, or making noises, so other than holding his leash behind me, I was completely ignoring him and focusing on the other dog. There was no one else around and I didn't want to end up with a dog fight. While people in my neighborhood tend to be terrible pet owners, most of them are tiny dogs that don't pose a serious threat to mine. Not so in this case. Once I got him inside and took the leash off, he didn't have unhappy posture and didn't run for his kennel. (I walked right back out of the door though, to catch the malamute and walk him home.) I don't know if there is a better way I should have handled this. I'm hoping it didn't make Flynn more nervous. I've been trying to build his confidence, not demolish it. And if it had been one of my other dogs, things would likely have turned out more disastrous. I've never been in this situation before and would hate to make it worse by reacting badly. So. Yes, just asking if there is a better way for me to handle this if it happens again in the future. Sorry for being particularly wordy, haha, I was just trying not to forget anything.
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Dec 8, 2010 17:22
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Arbor posted:It made me wonder about working with one dog in front of another. Should I find different noises to serve for the different dogs? I don't want the clicker noise to become meaningless for them, but I also don't want to take my attention away from whoever I've working with by giving someone else treats. Generally I'll probably continue to work in one on one situations, away from the other dogs, but it seems like something I ought to think about. Regarding the clicker, I know some people use different clickers for different dogs. I've never trained two dogs simultaneously so I don't know for sure. I feel like a dog should be smart enough to know when you're directly working with it and rewarding it, but it could get confusing for captured behaviours. I think there are electronic clickers that have multiple click sounds for multiple dogs (each gets their own) but I don't know much about them. I think you're fine sequestering yourself in another room, but if you can get two distinct sounds all the better. The way I would have approached that off-leash situation would have been by asking for my dog to sit, stay and focus on me while the other dog approached. This isn't easy, so you'd have to already have worked on focus in distracting situations. In my experience, if another dog comes up and is barking, if you and your dog just focus on each other without moving and shifting around then it will quickly get bored and stop its behaviour. Just work on keeping your dog calm and rewarding his focus. I feel that if he can turn to you in these stressful situations it can only help the bond between the two of you. However, I've been called naive on a number of occasions. Some dogs can charge with the intent to hurt your dog. If I felt it was one of those situations I would probably do as you did and just keep myself in between the two dogs to keep yours safe. I feel that this approach might be more stressful for your dog, but is also safer if the other dog has intention to hurt.
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Dec 8, 2010 23:04
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I think I have my answer, but I want a little back up. Dalaa is 6 months and was a road hound (but looks like a black and tan). She listens when given attention, including sit, lay, and a short stay. When she is not given undivided attention, she runs around the house (sometimes wildly, which we try to stop as soon as it starts). The four big problems we have 1) She will pick up people things and chew on them(off kitchen counters, table, my daughter's bed, my wife's shoes). NOTE: I go out of my way to limit where she goes but I feel I am the only one in my house. 2)She chews on the corners of everything, We have limited this with the bitter spray, but she is still having some problems (last month my roommate let her out of her crate at night and she chewed up a large chunk of the couch when he fell asleep) 3)She jumps on our 5yr old Lab (Maggie) and chews on her neck flap (???), Maggie doesn't seem to be upset by it, but it can not be as fun as Dalaa makes it out to be and is probably painful/bad habit. 4)She barks at night in her crate, usually if she lays down between 10-11pm she starts barking around 6am. There seems to be no cause or concern, she just starts barking. We let her out to the bathroom originally, but once outside she wants to play. We try not to entertain her at but when she is running away we do not have anyway to get her back inside, if we leave her outside she will start barking till we come out (plus we can not let her bark at 6am in our neighborhood). I know this is a lot to ask, but I have been looking for a thread like this for awhile. I think 1 and 2 are the same and the solution could be used on 3. But what about 4?
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Dec 9, 2010 04:54
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Ridonkulous posted:
All of these are because she's 6 months old. How old was she when you adopted her? Im/proper socialization may attribute to #3, but maybe not. Sounds like she's just trying to play, like she would with a sibling. RE: 1-3; she needs more stuff to chew on. She's teething / trying to lose her baby teeth. Have you found any creepy, tooth-looking objects around the house lately? If you have, you either live in a weird house or you've found a baby tooth of Dalaa's. Or it's possible both are true, I guess :P To be honest, I'm not sure what to tell you about #4. It sounds to ME like she understands that: bark in crate = ATTENTION, gently caress YEAH! So she does it... IF that is the case, you letting her out is rewarding the barking, hence the cycle. However, the bladder muscle that allows dogs to hold their urine for 5+ hours doesn't typically develop fully until 6-12 months so I would hate to encourage you to leave her in her crate, with her elimination in there. There are lots of others more knowledgeable than myself who I'm sure will be able to give you a better answer to #4. Heck, probably, 1-4.  Good luck!
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Dec 9, 2010 06:36
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Ridonkulous, how much exercise does Dalaa get daily? How much time daily doing nosework, training and other mentally tiring activities? It sound like the key is that like the poster above me pointed out, she's six months old and it sounds like she's really energetic. My experience with my own dogs has been that the amount of chewed up stuff is inversely proportional to the amount of exercise and mental stimulation they are getting, even when puppies. Give her a more acceptable outlet for her energy, pick up all stuff that you don't want her to chew on and redirect her chewiness into something acceptable when you catch her in the act. It should sort itself out. If tiring her out doesn't work well enough or quickly enough, a popular option used here where I live is to fence off furniture until pup has grown old enough to know not to chew on furniture and people things (crating is illegal, so you work around it). With the crate barking I agree she's just going for attention and you need to ignore it. Only ever approach the crate when she's behaving.
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Dec 9, 2010 08:38
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My dog used to have the really (really really really) annoying habit of barking to be let out of her crate early in the morning. Ignoring it was tough, since she pretty much proved that she would go for an hour or more just "yip.... yip.... yip". One day in a fit of desperation I shouted for her to quiet down, and it worked. So I kept doing it. Some mornings were more successful than others, but I think I was communicating to her that, yes, I hear you -- no, you're not getting out. I'm not sure if this is good advice, but I'm going to suggest you acknowledge the barking but don't capitulate to your dog's demands. Otherwise I fear that the dog just assumes that you can't hear it and it'll try harder. For the other stuff, increase the exercise your dog is getting (try doubling it for a week and see how it impacts on her behaviour), and offer more varied things for her to chew. She's probably teething. Also try recreational bones and bully sticks to keep her busy when she's alone. And lastly, if Maggie isn't going to stand up for herself it'll probably be helpful for you to step in when you feel play is getting too rough. A dog who's well versed in gentle play will be much easier to deal with in the future. Just be sure your dog understands she needs to calm down and that you're not joining in on her game.
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Dec 9, 2010 15:47
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Thanks for everyones help, I will try to increase her exercise and play. Rixatrix: Can you explain or link to some "nosework" exercises? And what kind of mentally tiring activities do you/y'all recommend?
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Dec 9, 2010 20:14
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Ridonkulous posted:Rixatrix: Can you explain or link to some "nosework" exercises? And what kind of mentally tiring activities do you/y'all recommend? Also, get puzzle toys and Kongs and feed her from those, she doesn't need to eat anything from a bowl (it's boring!) Teach her tricks - learning tires dogs out quickly. Take her to new places. I used to take Rho downtown when he got really annoyingly overenergetic. We'd walk around for an hour or so and I always brought back an exhausted pup. Edit. It seems PI has a nosework thread! http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3330830 Rixatrix fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Dec 9, 2010 |
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Dec 9, 2010 20:39
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I've been busy between finishing college, working full time, and moving but I'll be updating that thread soon and adding post to the dog sports thread as well
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Dec 9, 2010 20:46
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While I'm waiting for the books to arrive, I might as well ask another question. This hasn't been a huge concern so far, but I'd also like to curb my dog's separation anxiety. He didn't have it when we got him, but now he'll bark if I go inside the store, or to the restroom in a public place. It's annoying, and I'm not sure how to stop reinforcing the behavior, since eventually I have to go get him. How do I fix this? I was thinking that eventually I could enroll him in a nosework class, but he's not crate trained, and will bark if he can see me but not be near me. Comet was so perfect when I got him, friendly and gentle and quiet. I think I ruined my dog. 
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Dec 9, 2010 21:59
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a life less posted:My dog used to have the really (really really really) annoying habit of barking to be let out of her crate early in the morning. Ignoring it was tough, since she pretty much proved that she would go for an hour or more just "yip.... yip.... yip". One day in a fit of desperation I shouted for her to quiet down, and it worked. So I kept doing it. Some mornings were more successful than others, but I think I was communicating to her that, yes, I hear you -- no, you're not getting out. I'll come out of hiding here too and admit that with my German Shepherd pup my ex and I did a version of this as well. She was smart and when we moved her out of the bedroom she would wake up in the morning and just yap and moan around 6 am when we usually got up at 7 - 7:30. A flat - raised but not angry "Hey - Senta, enough" without going into the room would quiet her down. Another problem we had was that the cats would antagonize her in her crate and since our house was open format there was no way to lock them out. Occasionally in the middle of the night there would be a random bark/yowl fest that we broke up with a can of pennies. This was half to scare away the cat and half to surprise the dog into quiet. That also worked - and I don't think it treads too heavily on any of the crating rules.
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Dec 9, 2010 23:17
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Emasculatrix posted:While I'm waiting for the books to arrive, I might as well ask another question. This hasn't been a huge concern so far, but I'd also like to curb my dog's separation anxiety. He didn't have it when we got him, but now he'll bark if I go inside the store, or to the restroom in a public place. It's annoying, and I'm not sure how to stop reinforcing the behavior, since eventually I have to go get him. How do I fix this? Behaviour quirks emerge as the dog settles into his environment. Don't fret that you've ruined him! For the barking when you go into a store, I would start training a really awesome sit/stay (or down/stay). Start slow with an easy environment, and ask for a ~5 second stay, and when he's got that down up the requirement to 10, then 15, then 30, then 45... 1 minute, 5 minutes... you get the idea. If you start slow and don't up the criteria too fast you should be able to build a pretty good stay in your living room. Try breaking line of sight while you work on it. Then start in a new environment with a reduced time then work your way up again. Continue introducing this behaviour in new environments, etc. Just think of leaving him outside of the store as a long stay. Start slow and work your way up.
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Dec 9, 2010 23:46
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Well Cosmo will heel all over the apartment with me, for a while before I have to give him a treat too. He even heeled down one whole city block with me. He'll heel around minor distractions in the apartment. Its just a matter of keeping at it before we can really start heeling without a handful of treats as incentive. I'm so confident by spring he'll be ready for rally. Now if only I can get him to down without luring him. He'll do it on the bed no problem without a lure (where I first 'captured' the action), but on the floor he just sits and looks at me, unless I lure him down...
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Dec 10, 2010 02:16
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we have this little brat Dauchshund-something mix whose new trick is to poo poo in out of sight corners of the house when no one's looking now that it's cold out. She's housetrained 8 of twelve months of the year but the second snow hits the ground she turns into a little poo poo-ninja. Most of the family hates her actually, but my sister loves her. Is there any way to stop this before our carpets get even more ruined? She knows she should be going outside, she just also knows that she can get away with this if she manages to sneak out of sight for two goddamned minutes.
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Dec 10, 2010 03:59
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Crating and/or tethering, maybe in conjunction with closing off certain rooms of the house to her (via baby gates). Combine that with scheduled potty trips (maybe clear a spot of ground so she doesn't have to get cold feet, and throw a sweater on her?), she'll go outside eventually and then you get to throw a potty party with all sorts of treats! She's learned that inside is easier than outside, so you need to make outside WAY more awesome.
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Dec 10, 2010 07:04
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Can anyone tell me why (specifically) this thing is probably a piece of poo poo? I keep seeing infomercials for it. http://barkoff.me/
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Dec 14, 2010 08:52
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If it actually makes the behavior occur less frequently, it’s +P by definition and comes with all the fallout of positive punishment. If it just acts as a distraction to disrupt the “pattern of problem barking” it might work once or twice before the dog learns to ignore it, unless actual effort is made to train the dog at the same time. But then again, you can distract the dog with a hundred other things as well, you don’t need to buy this product for that.
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Dec 14, 2010 09:46
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Kerfuffle posted:Can anyone tell me why (specifically) this thing is probably a piece of poo poo? I keep seeing infomercials for it. Ha ha, that's really strange, I happened upon an article by Gail Fisher about this exact product last night (I'd never seen the infomercial ...) http://www.alldogsgym.com/content/view/582/
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Dec 14, 2010 15:57
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^^^^ Good article. Yeah, I wouldn't use anything that I wasn't causing myself and monitoring closely to see the dog's reaction. If my dog showed any 'shut down' behavior or fear of the can, I would give up on the idea. Hell, if I had to use it often, I would give up on the idea and try something else. Rixatrix posted:But then again, you can distract the dog with a hundred other things as well, you don’t need to buy this product for that. We've started using pennies in a can for our dog who has a barking habit. She doesn't bark continuously, she just does alarm barking or barks at us for attention. We tried replacing the behavior, using timeouts, and ignoring it, but it wasn't working, so we added the can. If we can't get her attention from her short (up to 10 minutes) but loud barking fits, we shake it once loudly and then ask for her replacement behavior (laying down quietly). We haven't had to do it much because she's been quieter since we started. It may be coincidence because it's been less than a week, but I think it's worth trying if all other avenues have been exhausted. Kiri koli fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Dec 14, 2010 |
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Dec 14, 2010 17:20
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How do people usually start getting their dog to ring a bell when they need to go out, and what kind of bell do they use? A desk bell, a string of bells that the dog jingles, etc? Our pup will generally go to the door if she needs to go out, but sometimes it'll just be a flyby, not a stand at the door and wait type of thing. She also likes to sometimes go over there just to sleep, so we're occasionally left guessing over whether she needs to go out. So, a bell would be handy...do you just start dinging it when you go out with them, then get them to do it, over and over until they figure it out? Also, is there something you can do so they really only associate it with needing to go out to eliminate, vs just being like "wellll poo poo I'm bored so Imma ring this bell" And an unrelated question...she's actually pretty good at walking on a loose leash by our side already (unless something super exciting happens up ahead, of course, but we're working on that) but we just by default started her off to stay on the right side of us, while I see a life less saying to use the left side, etc. I assume this is mainly because of the heel command and it being specifically defined as the dog on your left side. We don't have any current plans to do things that might require a specific heel but I can't rule out the chance that we might want to do something like Rally or whatever in the future. We actually haven't started working on heel as a command...think we could get her to recognize the command as be on the left side but without the command hang out on the right? Or just switch over to the left completely
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Dec 14, 2010 18:05
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Swanson was having issues doing the "It's Yer Choice" training (guess I'm just not fast enough/he's very sneaky) so we started working in his kennel. I'll sit with a big bowl of food while he's in his kennel and wait for his focus to go off of the food. When he makes eye contact with me, I'll tell him "Good dog" and reward him. If he looks at the food bowl or kibble I just freeze in the position he started looking at the treat until he looks back at me, and then I treat him. It's working pretty well. Oh, and does anyone have a suggestion on quieter clickers? I've got one from PetCo and it seems like it's so loud my ears ring sometimes.
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Dec 14, 2010 18:24
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For a quiet clicker, try a lid from a container which has that depressed middle part that pops up when you first open the container to show you the product inside is intact. Over here those can easily be found on baby food. They make a very soft click when you press the middle. Alternatively, try a ball point pen.
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Dec 14, 2010 18:41
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themindisonfire posted:Oh, and does anyone have a suggestion on quieter clickers? I've got one from PetCo and it seems like it's so loud my ears ring sometimes. You can also buy some sticky tack and stick it on the curved part of the metal tongue to soften the sound a bit. Try saying "Yes" (or Good or Hai or Oui or whatever). Keeping your marker word one syllable makes it more precise -- the same way a click is more precise than a marker word. Levitate posted:How do people usually start getting their dog to ring a bell when they need to go out, and what kind of bell do they use? A desk bell, a string of bells that the dog jingles, etc? I've not used bells before, so I can't really offer too much help on that. I'd probably start with teaching your dog to touch target your hand with her nose. This is super easy to teach (it was the first thing Cohen ever learned). Just rub some food on the palm of your hand, and your dog will naturally want to sniff it. You can capture this behaviour easily with a clicker then start moving it on to new objects. Once you have the hand target down, you can place a sticky note on your hand and get her to target it, then when she's got that down, move the note and build up the touch behaviour again. Move it to the hanging bells and reward with a treat and access to the outdoors when she gets it. Ask for a bell target each time she looks like she wants to go out. Some people just leave the bells hanging there and hope that the dog figures it out, but I'd want to teach it specifically. The bells most people use look like a string of Christmas bells hanging at dog level. I hear it's hard to avoid the dog using the bells for both "I gotta pee" situations and "I wanna chase that cat". For the loose leash walking, the left side is, as you guessed, the default position for competitive obedience. There are other historical reasons for them to be on that side, but pretty much now the only reason we continue teaching on the left is because that's just how it's done. You're more than welcome to teach your dog to walk on your right side. When she gets it you can actually teach different commands for different sides -- I use "heel" for left and "side" for right (as in other side). If you do Rally you'll want to work on a proper left-side heel, yes, but it boils down to whatever you prefer. Cohen naturally walks on my left side now, but I don't normally specify and she's welcome to walk on my other side if she feels like it. It's good to allow the dog the freedom since walking focused on you kind of torques a dog's back a bit and can cause muscle strain. It's best to try to balance it out. Even if you have no plans for Rally or whatever, I definitely recommend a nice heel or side command. I use it to keep my dog out of the way of other people. It's especially handy if we're inside waiting somewhere and Cohen starts getting fidgety. It's an easy way to keep her out of trouble. Plus, people get really impressed if you can send your dog to your side with a quick signal.
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Dec 14, 2010 19:27
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Levitate posted:How do people usually start getting their dog to ring a bell when they need to go out, and what kind of bell do they use? A desk bell, a string of bells that the dog jingles, etc? We currently have two puppies (2.5 and 3.5 months old), and we wanted them to ring a bell to ask to go outside - our last dog would just throw herself at the sliding door to ask, so we didn't want them to develop this habit. I bought some ribbon and threaded a couple of jingle bells on it, then tied it to the door. You can buy premade ones that are similar (I've seen them at Pet Supplies Plus), but they're ridiculously expensive for what they are. Then when we would take them out, we would ring the bell first, then take them out. After a few days, we started directing their attention to the bell and praising them when they bonked it with their noses, then taking them out. We'd make sure that whenever we heard the bell, even if they just bumped it in passing, that we took them outside. Now they both pretty consistently ring the bell and then wait at the door when they need to go (they're not fully potty trained yet, but they definitely have the idea). I don't know if this is the usual way to teach it, but it seems to have worked for us.
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Dec 14, 2010 19:30
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