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Aurium
Oct 10, 2010


w00tmonger posted:

How do I go about getting cut 2020 and 3030 extrusions. I have no loving clue what I'm doing and the only stuff I can find is big lengths

There's a bunch of vendors out there that will cut it to length. None that I have experience with. Search for "pre cut aluminum extrusion." ebay also has a variety of standard pre cut lengths as well, if the dimensions work for you. I'm also going to shrug at the tolerances.

I know misumi will do it, from talking with people they were happy with he quality, and complained about the price.

But skipping them, hack saw (or a portaband) and a file/sandpaper to clean it up. You don't get anything approaching square cuts unless you're in practice.

If you have one, a chopsaw and a nice high tooth count wood working blade (cross cut, not ripcut) will work in a pinch. Go easy. More over there are also blades actually designed for cutting aluminum. They look basically the same as woodworking blades, but have geometry designed for aluminum. Decent saw = pretty square. Not metalworking square, but pretty square. Effort can get you very square. This is what I do, and design around.

There are ones designed for steel studs and conduit, I'm honestly not sure they'd be better or worse for aluminum vs a crosscut blade over them, as the tool geometry for steel and aluminum tends to be pretty different. If you're buying a new blade though, which I assume you would be, you really should get the one for the material you're cutting.

After that there's the usual metalworking solutions. Though they're basically all different saws and finishing options. If they were a serious option, you probably wouldn't be asking in the first place.

Guess based on recent posting: if you're doing a voron there are a few kits out there.

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Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004





If you show up to a machine shop with your extrusion and a crisp $50 bill about half an hour before closing time, you can make a lot of magic happen. This also applies to a lot of fabrication problems, actually

But yeah it's aluminum, anything sharper than a bread knife will cut the stuff

Snackmar
Feb 23, 2005

I'M PROGRAMMED TO LOVE THIS CHOCOLATY CAKE... MY CIRCUITS LIGHT UP FOR THAT FUDGY ICING.


Edit: Whoops, there is a laser thread after all, nm

Edit 2: No, it appears to have been closed

I'm looking to buy a Flux Beambox 40w laser cutter, but before I do, I'm trying to get a better sense of what it looks in actual operation in a real person's workshop.

The problem I'm running into is that I can't find much in the way of reasonable photos and videos.. Anyone in here have a Beambox (not the Beamo, not the Pro, the middle one) that they could take some candid photos of?

Snackmar fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Apr 5, 2021

Stupid_Sexy_Flander
Mar 14, 2007

Is a man not entitled to the haw of his maw?


Grimey Drawer

Anyone know if the ender 5 plus is a good machine? Kinda debating getting one.

Scarodactyl
Oct 22, 2015




I like mine a lot. I did have to locktite the bolts holding the hot end in position but other than that it's been good.

space uncle
Sep 17, 2006


Just put together a Prusa Mk3S+. Took me most of Saturday and Sunday minus frequent interruptions by the infant.

I donít have the heart to turn it on this late (early) and see that it doesnít work, so Iím gonna leave the checkouts and troubleshooting and setup as a problem for tomorrow.

Stupid_Sexy_Flander
Mar 14, 2007

Is a man not entitled to the haw of his maw?


Grimey Drawer

Scarodactyl posted:

I like mine a lot. I did have to locktite the bolts holding the hot end in position but other than that it's been good.

How does it print? Fast? Any aftermarket upgrades I need to worry about?

Dunno anything about core x/y printers so any info you can share is awesome.

If you can measure it for me I'd appreciate knowing the overall size. I know it's a big boy but I'd like to know if I need to buy a whole new table for it or not.

Aurium
Oct 10, 2010


Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:

How does it print? Fast? Any aftermarket upgrades I need to worry about?

Dunno anything about core x/y printers so any info you can share is awesome.

If you can measure it for me I'd appreciate knowing the overall size. I know it's a big boy but I'd like to know if I need to buy a whole new table for it or not.

I don't have one, but just so you know, the ender 5 isn't a corexy printer. It's a serial cartiesian bot, just not a bedslinger. The entire x axis rides on the y axis, like the old makerbots.

It's not a bad layout, they can be slightly faster than bedslingers, though still not great as the y axis has to moves the x axis instead of the print. They're usually easier to enclose, but this one has a bunch of stuff outside the superstructure, not really in this case. The real disadvantage is that they have a larger footprint and structure (aka cost) relative to their build area than a bedslinger.

SchnorkIes
Jan 12, 2021

If you see me posting it's probably a bunch of facebook fwd from your aunt level misinformation about covid. But don't worry, I won't get banned for it, absurd fear mongering histrionics isn't bannable, it's totally fine for me to fearmonger vaccines for months then post about how I've gotten THREE.

What motion system would be most suitable for a big printer with a large diameter nozzle and high-volume hotend? I feel like bedslingers need too much Y space with a big print area and CoreXY seems more suitable for small-diameter high-detail than a chungus nozzle

ImplicitAssembler
Jan 24, 2013



SchnorkIes posted:

What motion system would be most suitable for a big printer with a large diameter nozzle and high-volume hotend? I feel like bedslingers need too much Y space with a big print area and CoreXY seems more suitable for small-diameter high-detail than a chungus nozzle

CoreXY will still give you the highest printspeeds.

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012


"Why does that Subaru break down every time you look at it, Travis", Punchy said. I nearly fell out of the jump seat in my Brat, aghast. "That thing a princess?" I coughed and gulped. "Hahahaha, nice one, Punchy", I said

The amount of extra mass in a high-volume hotend is negligible in most cases. It's a couple extra grams of metal for the larger heater block, and the nozzle is actually lighter because the hole is bigger

If you have a very large build area it's probably best to avoid machines that move the whole bed around. So CoreXY, H-bot or delta (or traditional cartesian with combined X and Y gantries) are good options. CoreXY is popular because the drive motors stay in one place on the machine's frame, reducing moving mass. There's no reason a CoreXY can't use a big chungus nozzle.

Moving a large heavy bed precisely isn't an unsolvable problem, though. The vast majority of CNC mills move the part table in at least one axis. You just gotta pay for it

SchnorkIes
Jan 12, 2021

If you see me posting it's probably a bunch of facebook fwd from your aunt level misinformation about covid. But don't worry, I won't get banned for it, absurd fear mongering histrionics isn't bannable, it's totally fine for me to fearmonger vaccines for months then post about how I've gotten THREE.

Yeah I just didn't know if you were doing something like pushing a Supervolcano (is that still the highest flowrate consumer hotend?) to its volumetric limits, would it be better to just go with something with shorter belts than a large CoreXY since your speed is so limited by flow rate anyway.

Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!



Sagebrush posted:

The amount of extra mass in a high-volume hotend is negligible in most cases. It's a couple extra grams of metal for the larger heater block, and the nozzle is actually lighter because the hole is bigger

If you have a very large build area it's probably best to avoid machines that move the whole bed around. So CoreXY, H-bot or delta (or traditional cartesian with combined X and Y gantries) are good options. CoreXY is popular because the drive motors stay in one place on the machine's frame, reducing moving mass. There's no reason a CoreXY can't use a big chungus nozzle.

Moving a large heavy bed precisely isn't an unsolvable problem, though. The vast majority of CNC mills move the part table in at least one axis. You just gotta pay for it

I was surprised that Ivan Miranda built a bed slinger for his huge 3d printer (1000x500mm). His budget is YouTube, patrons, and sponsors, though so I guess that helps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhBdMpEGH0o

Faux Mulder
Aug 1, 2014

just gonna do whatever I want to do, all the time

I'm totally new to 3D printing and recently bought an Ender 5 Pro, which I've been enjoying using. I live in a pretty small apartment which doesn't have particularly good ventilation and I've got the printer set up in my living area so I'm pretty close to it (~20ft) most of the time it's printing. I'm just using PLA for now - how worried do I need to be about breathing in harmful stuff, and what's the best way to counteract that?

Scarodactyl
Oct 22, 2015




Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:

How does it print? Fast?
It's the only one I have used, but once I got settings dialled in decently for my filament quality has been quite good as far as I can tell (easily printing things like fine 0.5mm pitch threads). Speed seems pretty typical I guess.

Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:

Any aftermarket upgrades I need to worry about?
I got a capricorn tube and holders because mine failed, but that was almost certainly because of the self loosening bolts. Still, it is a very easy thing to swap out and inexpensive.

Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:

If you can measure it for me I'd appreciate knowing the overall size. I know it's a big boy but I'd like to know if I need to buy a whole new table for it or not.
It's over at my dad's place but iirc it's about a 2 foot cube. Definitely big, you'll need to be sure you have a place for it.

Overall it took about an hour for me to assemble, and it has eaaily paid for itself just in weird microscope adapters I've been able to easily print (though I understand not everyone has a small business/hobby with tons of opportunities to save 40 bucks here and there if only you can make your own precise mechanical adapters).

Bondematt
Jan 26, 2007



Faux Mulder posted:

I'm totally new to 3D printing and recently bought an Ender 5 Pro, which I've been enjoying using. I live in a pretty small apartment which doesn't have particularly good ventilation and I've got the printer set up in my living area so I'm pretty close to it (~20ft) most of the time it's printing. I'm just using PLA for now - how worried do I need to be about breathing in harmful stuff, and what's the best way to counteract that?

No worries for PLA, but other filaments can be noxious and/or toxic and require proper ventilation.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?

TPU doesn't make any scent as well in my limited experience. Anything harmful in that?

Doctor Zero
Sep 21, 2002

Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:

How does it print? Fast? Any aftermarket upgrades I need to worry about?

Dunno anything about core x/y printers so any info you can share is awesome.

If you can measure it for me I'd appreciate knowing the overall size. I know it's a big boy but I'd like to know if I need to buy a whole new table for it or not.

With the filament spool it takes up 24x24x28 (28 wide).

It prints very well. Just as good as anything else other than my Prusa once you get it dialed in. Itís not as fast as my CR-6 but itís still decent.

Must have upgrades are the same yellow springs that the Ender 3 uses and a better build plate. The new ones might come with one, not sure. Mines 2 years old. The rest you can print, like a bed cable support and stuff like that.

Optional upgrades, at least on mine, are quiet stepper motor motherboard, and relocating the filament spool to the top of the machine. Maybe a direct drive.

insta
Jan 28, 2009


Sagebrush posted:

The amount of extra mass in a high-volume hotend is negligible in most cases. It's a couple extra grams of metal for the larger heater block, and the nozzle is actually lighter because the hole is bigger

If you have a very large build area it's probably best to avoid machines that move the whole bed around. So CoreXY, H-bot or delta (or traditional cartesian with combined X and Y gantries) are good options. CoreXY is popular because the drive motors stay in one place on the machine's frame, reducing moving mass. There's no reason a CoreXY can't use a big chungus nozzle.

Moving a large heavy bed precisely isn't an unsolvable problem, though. The vast majority of CNC mills move the part table in at least one axis. You just gotta pay for it

Large printers should be crossed gantry (Ultimaker style). The belts for a CoreXY start getting stupid long, making impossible-to-tune artifacts unless you move the print head really slowly.

AlexDeGruven
Jun 29, 2007

Watch me pull my dongle out of this tiny box




Snackmar posted:

Edit: Whoops, there is a laser thread after all, nm

Edit 2: No, it appears to have been closed

I'm looking to buy a Flux Beambox 40w laser cutter, but before I do, I'm trying to get a better sense of what it looks in actual operation in a real person's workshop.

The problem I'm running into is that I can't find much in the way of reasonable photos and videos.. Anyone in here have a Beambox (not the Beamo, not the Pro, the middle one) that they could take some candid photos of?

That looks like a really nice update to the standard K40 style. I like the bigger bed, though ripping out all the poo poo inside mine has gotten me closer. I'm not ballsy enough to strip the guts out entirely and build a custom chassis, but that's something I've seen on some of the boards.

I didn't look too closely, but it looks like that's a LightBurn capable setup, which gives a lot of freedom over the m.2 setup I'm running.

I'm still getting mine dialed in for the million different material options, and being an Amazon Vine member has really helped me keep experimental costs down.

CapnBry
Jul 15, 2002

I got this goin'

Grimey Drawer

Hadlock posted:

What's everybody's calibration pattern? Links please

I use something like this, just 15mm squares, 215mm apart on the X,Y. Heat up the bed and set the Z offset such that when this prints, the reference square (I use the one closest to 0,0) almost fills in properly. That is, you can still see the edges of the solid infill not fully making it into the perimeters. Then, adjust the mesh/screws until all the other squares print the same way. It is important to make the reference square not squished entirely, because you won't be able to tell if you've got it nailed or you're up to 0.1mm too close which gives too much error. Once all the square look not-quite-right like the reference square does, subtract 0.02-0.04mm to the Z-offset so now everything is perfect. I connect the squares with lines in the model so I can pull the whole calibration pattern up at once, but just arranging cubes in PrusaSlicer can get you there too with no modeling needed.

In Klipper I just edit the mesh definition because my screws are close enough (<0.4mm) and they are under the glass so I don't want to touch them. I do my leveling at 75C, and I think ideally you'd have a different mesh for every temperature, but this works really really well and I only have different Z-offsets in the slicer profile for different materials. PETG is the standard, PLA needs to be 0.02mm closer, ABS needs to be 0.04mm further away. I have tried 832 different bed probes from servo arms with microswitches, to custom IR reflection triggers, to all sizes and shapes of inductive/capacitive probes and have never been happy with their results on my main printer. This works great, the prints start without doing all that slow mesh-checking stuff, and I just recalibrate every 6 months when I clean the build plate.

ImplicitAssembler
Jan 24, 2013



insta posted:

Large printers should be crossed gantry (Ultimaker style). The belts for a CoreXY start getting stupid long, making impossible-to-tune artifacts unless you move the print head really slowly.

Erhh, no.

Ambihelical Hexnut
Aug 5, 2008


AlexDeGruven posted:

That looks like a really nice update to the standard K40 style. I like the bigger bed, though ripping out all the poo poo inside mine has gotten me closer. I'm not ballsy enough to strip the guts out entirely and build a custom chassis, but that's something I've seen on some of the boards.

5k is a lot even for the worldís best k40.

AlexDeGruven
Jun 29, 2007

Watch me pull my dongle out of this tiny box




Yikes. I didn't look at the pricetag. Better have a LOT of improvements over a regular K40 for Glowforge money. And by a huge margin.

biracial bear for uncut
Jun 9, 2009

ask me about being the most obnoxious person of all time

Also, it cannot be stressed enough, gently caress Glowforge.

w00tmonger
Mar 9, 2011

F-F-FRIDAY NIGHT MOTHERFUCKERS


gently caress it, I was going to make the hevort but I'm worried about cost overruns etc.

Just want to print fast benchys so I'm making an abs enclosure for my ender 3 and starting on a voron 0

biracial bear for uncut posted:

Also, it cannot be stressed enough, gently caress Glowforge.

Out of the loop,but glowforge just overpriced?

Snackmar
Feb 23, 2005

I'M PROGRAMMED TO LOVE THIS CHOCOLATY CAKE... MY CIRCUITS LIGHT UP FOR THAT FUDGY ICING.


w00tmonger posted:

Out of the loop,but glowforge just overpriced?

They have a pretty nice UI (esp compared to most laser solutions) but their biggest weakness is that the machine is totally dependent on a cloud service that processes your designs into gcode.

Every unit will be a hunk of junk if that goes away (as happened with that one Printrbot model https://hackaday.com/2018/07/19/a-farewell-to-printrbot/), or you end up requiring a paid subscription to send your designs to the front of the line for "priority" processing (similar to what Cricut attmpted to do ahead of their IPO https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/15/22332212/cricut-crafting-machine-design-space-upload-limit)

biracial bear for uncut
Jun 9, 2009

ask me about being the most obnoxious person of all time

Read up: https://www.bbb.org/us/wa/seattle/profile/3d-printers/glowforge-1296-90007778/complaints

BMan
Oct 31, 2015

KNIIIIIIFE
EEEEEYYYYE
ATTAAAACK




Snackmar posted:

They have a pretty nice UI (esp compared to most laser solutions) but their biggest weakness is that the machine is totally dependent on a cloud service that processes your designs into gcode.

Every unit will be a hunk of junk if that goes away (as happened with that one Printrbot model https://hackaday.com/2018/07/19/a-farewell-to-printrbot/), or you end up requiring a paid subscription to send your designs to the front of the line for "priority" processing (similar to what Cricut attmpted to do ahead of their IPO https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/15/22332212/cricut-crafting-machine-design-space-upload-limit)

holy poo poo, gently caress cricut

AlexDeGruven
Jun 29, 2007

Watch me pull my dongle out of this tiny box




Glowforge is also spendy af and not really worth it if you have any kind of engineering or tinkering skills. For the price, just pick up a used Epilog plus all the accessories you'll ever need and the ability to use a rotary.

BMan posted:

holy poo poo, gently caress cricut

I've yet to find anything a Cricut can do that my K40 can't with the exception of cutting PVC based vinyl, but gently caress that anyway. The polyurethane vinyl works just as well and doesn't release chlorine gas if it gets too hot.

AlexDeGruven fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Apr 6, 2021

NewFatMike
Jun 11, 2015



I'm looking forward to picking up a Silhouette Cameo 4 Pro, it'll do 24" x 24" textiles. $400 isn't bad for that size.

I was interested in lasers for home, but I don't think I can get away with the extraction needs in the basement workshop.

Definitely gently caress Cricut.

The Eyes Have It
Feb 9, 2008

Third Eye Sees All
...snookums

Smartest thing I ever did is put the laser cutter into the garage instead of the basement workshop. The ventilation needs I would sum up as "enough is never enough".

e: Like, the worst time to discover insufficient ventilation + higher than expected noise levels from the compressor, exhaust fan, and chiller would be AFTER setting up a 500 lb machine

The Eyes Have It fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Apr 6, 2021

AlexDeGruven
Jun 29, 2007

Watch me pull my dongle out of this tiny box




Mine has been fine in the basement. I have a lot of air movement and a dedicated window insert for the exhaust, though.

Snackmar
Feb 23, 2005

I'M PROGRAMMED TO LOVE THIS CHOCOLATY CAKE... MY CIRCUITS LIGHT UP FOR THAT FUDGY ICING.



Holy hell that's worse than I imagined.. Also a piece of my soul dies every time Glowforge refers to their product as a "printer"

Ambrose Burnside
Aug 29, 2007

pensive


Casnorf posted:

These are good criticisms.

As with all tools, using a resin printer for purposes within its wheelhouse are gonna give the best results overall. These days I use mine for bespoke miniature stuff, because if I need something loadbearing or whatnot I'm nearly always better off just carving or making it out of nearly anything else. That niche is fantastic, though!

If I had the capability to injection mold or vacuform I suspect I'd be able to expand into proper rapid prototyping, but for the moment I'm just a nerd who likes making and painting dumb things for people, like a small cup of fries for my Peter B. Parker action figure to be lazily webbing from across my desk. The alternatives for detailed models or head sculpts or custom accessories just don't make sense when I've got this stinky headache right here. And, if I'm being fair, if that's what you want one for, it's kinda perfect for that.

yeah this is entirely fair, i donít mean paint anything other than rapid prototyping and niche engineering applications as bad or worthy of criticism. iím walking a fine perceptual line between my own environmental considerations and ďjudging other people for how they use their printersĒ, and probably should have been a little more specific wrt my thrust there, which was less criticizing use/application as ďthis manufacturing process is inherently wasteful in ways i have not experienced before, and itís changing how I use and contextualize my resin printerĒ.
i got into the hobby with a fairly specific Rapid Tooling production application in mind, but i also have a painted 40k 2000-point Imperial Guard ~Ineffective Themed Army~ in storage, back from before Ďphenomenal resin printers for $300í were a twinkle in anyoneís eye... and i gotta say, i frequently marvel at how much more customization and love I could have poured into the hobby with todayís resources. I envy people who are passionate about hobbies for which cheap 3d printing is genuinely transformative. And it would have gotten me into CAD design a decade earlier in my life, which would have been helpful.
Ultimately Iíd like to see more people get into this, not fewer, because rarely can you purchase so much clean-cut *potential* for $249.99 off Amazon. I would, however, also like to see more conscientious and thoughtful use, and a general consideration of 3d printing that understands it as one tool in a toolbox vs The Extent Of Your World. Which, as you note, is conveniently also how you Fabricate Effectively, any potential environmental considerations are just icing on the cake.

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution

I get what youíre saying but there are always going to be hobbyists in all hobby niches that buy a bunch of stuff at entry time, mess around, decide they donít / canít care enough, and ditch the material. It is wasteful sure but the fact is that itís just the learning process at work.

Plus, letís be honest with ourselves about relativity here: Iíd be willing to bet that the sum total of PLA and PETG and cured resin Iíve scrapped over five years as a result of support structures or failed prints isnít even one tenth of one percent of the landfill stream that the company I work for produces every day. This isnít to say we shouldnít encourage thrift and thoughtful design to minimize waste - we totally should! - but also we should be realistic about the windmills choose to we tilt at. Gatekeeping about waste when someone is trying to decide whether to adopt 3D printing as a tool or hobby wonít drive adoption.

Ambrose Burnside
Aug 29, 2007

pensive


NewFatMike posted:

I'm looking forward to picking up a Silhouette Cameo 4 Pro, it'll do 24" x 24" textiles. $400 isn't bad for that size.

I was interested in lasers for home, but I don't think I can get away with the extraction needs in the basement workshop.

Definitely gently caress Cricut.

I got a free Cricut, so I guess thatís the cnc dragknife plotter iím using, but god drat is a Silhouette Cameo (or any Silhouette machine, really) an incredibly tempting Unnecessary Purchase. attempting to cut flexible PCB traces with Cricutís ďhope you didnít want your line segments cut in linear orderĒ software did some small but permanent damage to my mental state

Stupid_Sexy_Flander
Mar 14, 2007

Is a man not entitled to the haw of his maw?


Grimey Drawer

My mom has something called a scan and cut? that I'm tempted to borrow and see if I can use for anything. It's a neat little idea but no clue on what I'd use it for.

SchnorkIes
Jan 12, 2021

If you see me posting it's probably a bunch of facebook fwd from your aunt level misinformation about covid. But don't worry, I won't get banned for it, absurd fear mongering histrionics isn't bannable, it's totally fine for me to fearmonger vaccines for months then post about how I've gotten THREE.

csammis posted:

I get what youíre saying but there are always going to be hobbyists in all hobby niches that buy a bunch of stuff at entry time, mess around, decide they donít / canít care enough, and ditch the material. It is wasteful sure but the fact is that itís just the learning process at work.

Plus, letís be honest with ourselves about relativity here: Iíd be willing to bet that the sum total of PLA and PETG and cured resin Iíve scrapped over five years as a result of support structures or failed prints isnít even one tenth of one percent of the landfill stream that the company I work for produces every day. This isnít to say we shouldnít encourage thrift and thoughtful design to minimize waste - we totally should! - but also we should be realistic about the windmills choose to we tilt at. Gatekeeping about waste when someone is trying to decide whether to adopt 3D printing as a tool or hobby wonít drive adoption.

At work I will happily consume several extra tons of petroleum a day above what is optimal in order to keep people from bothering me on my lunch break, or whatever.

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Ambrose Burnside
Aug 29, 2007

pensive


csammis posted:

I get what youíre saying but there are always going to be hobbyists in all hobby niches that buy a bunch of stuff at entry time, mess around, decide they donít / canít care enough, and ditch the material. It is wasteful sure but the fact is that itís just the learning process at work.

Plus, letís be honest with ourselves about relativity here: Iíd be willing to bet that the sum total of PLA and PETG and cured resin Iíve scrapped over five years as a result of support structures or failed prints isnít even one tenth of one percent of the landfill stream that the company I work for produces every day. This isnít to say we shouldnít encourage thrift and thoughtful design to minimize waste - we totally should! - but also we should be realistic about the windmills choose to we tilt at. Gatekeeping about waste when someone is trying to decide whether to adopt 3D printing as a tool or hobby wonít drive adoption.

I agree with all of this, more or less, except for considering hoping people consider their environmental impact when it comes to their hobbies as "tilting at windmills". That goal isn't peculiar to 3D printing, it just happens to be more applicable than I've previously dealt with.

And, yes, personal consumption is a rounding error alongside industry, just living a first-world lifestyle has a large enough impact that quibbling about hobbies is a rounding error of that rounding error, all granted... but "give this stuff a think, before you print" still stands, and seems like a pretty reasonable thing to gently hope for people to do generally, i think

Ambrose Burnside fucked around with this message at 04:44 on Apr 6, 2021

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