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mastur
Mar 26, 2007

queefing the ice beard.
Is there any love for The Name of the Wind in here? Kvothe is a badass, and The Wise Man's Fear is set to come out on March 1st 2011. I can't wait to find out how he encounters (and survives) Felurian, in a 1000 page part 2.

Here's Pat's site, http://www.patrickrothfuss.com/content/index.asp

And as suggested:

The Back of the Book posted:

My name is Kvothe, pronounced nearly the same as "quothe." Names are important as they tell you a great deal about a person. I've had more names than anyone has a right to. The Adem call me Maedre. Which, depending on how it's spoken, can mean The Flame, The Thunder, or The Broken Tree.

"The Flame" is obvious if you've ever seen me. I have red hair, bright. If I had been born a couple of hundred years ago I would probably have been burned as a demon. I keep it short but it's unruly. When left to its own devices, it sticks up and makes me look as if I have been set afire.

"The Thunder" I attribute to a strong baritone and a great deal of stage training at an early age.

I've never thought of "The Broken Tree" as very significant. Although in retrospect, I suppose it could be considered at least partially prophetic.

My first mentor called me E'lir because I was clever and I knew it. My first real lover called me Dulator because she liked the sound of it. I have been called Shadicar, Lightfinger, and Six-String. I have been called Kvothe the Bloodless, Kvothe the Arcane, and Kvothe Kingkiller. I have earned those names. Bought and paid for them.

But I was brought up as Kvothe. My father once told me it meant "to know."

I have, of course, been called many other things. Most of them uncouth, although very few were unearned.

I have stolen princesses back from sleeping barrow kings. I burned down the town of Trebon. I have spent the night with Felurian and left with both my sanity and my life. I was expelled from the University at a younger age than most people are allowed in. I tread paths by moonlight that others fear to speak of during day. I have talked to Gods, loved women, and written songs that make the minstrels weep.

You may have heard of me.

Read some book, it good!

mastur fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Nov 15, 2010

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Dr Scoofles
Dec 6, 2004

I really enjoyed Name of the Wind, in fact I've read it twice. A lot of people dislike it as the main character is a bit of a 'perfect rear end in a top hat' with a very strange attitude towards women. I like Kvothe myself and am really looking forward to the next book

Oh, and if you're on that website never ever ask Patrick Rothfuss when the next book is out. Just don't OK?

Edit - I'll admit I stopped checking to see what the release date for book 2 is since it has been announced and the pushed back over and over again.

Dr Scoofles fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Nov 14, 2010

Mahlertov Cocktail
Mar 1, 2010

I ate your Mahler avatar! Hahahaha!
Especially since the answer is March 1, 2010. He's turned in the manuscript and everything.

But yeah, I loved Name of the Wind. Even apart from the great characters (Kvothe is awesome :colbert:), plot, and magic system, the writing is simply gorgeous. The book flows so incredibly well, I accidentally read for eight hours one night and only stopped because I realized it was getting light outside.

Also, you might want to add a little more content to the OP. Maybe Kvothe's introduction, since it gives a nice taste of the book's tone.

Edit for additional content: With regards to Kvothe's character, I think Rothfuss actually did a fantastic job making an extremely intelligent, good-looking character flawed. He's really reckless; the only reason he gets away with it is because he's clever, and even that doesn't get him off scot-free all the time. I think a lot of people also forget that that character is 15 years old, which accounts for both the recklessness/abuse of his intelligence and for his ineptitude with women even though Denna and Fela would be all over that.

Mahlertov Cocktail fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Nov 15, 2010

Robotnik
Dec 3, 2004
STUPID
DICK
I read The Name of the Wind, and will quite likely read the sequel, but I have to parrot the frequent indictment of the main character in this book. His plight and personal man-against-society struggle is wholly uninteresting precisely because never once does he actually come across as in any kind of real danger. He's just so unstoppably smug and brilliant that things will work out in the end, because even the heartless loan shark is just utterly charmed with his feckless self.

There are definitely redeeming qualities about the book. The one that strikes me the most is how it departs from the typical fantasy trope of intense exposition that explains to you the entire arc the plot will follow. I think a lot of authors build their worlds in an analogous fashion to describing a man standing on the edge of a cliff, so that you know he's going to fall. I'm not sure what's going to happen in Kvothe's world, and the curious fantasy addict in me wants to know.

But, again, I don't give a poo poo what actually happens to Kvothe. I'm sure it (his future) will be fortuitous and a total product of his supreme intellect.

mastur
Mar 26, 2007

queefing the ice beard.

Mahlertov Cocktail posted:

Even apart from the great characters (Kvothe is awesome :colbert:), plot, and magic system, the writing is simply gorgeous. The book flows so incredibly well, I accidentally read for eight hours one night and only stopped because I realized it was getting light outside.


Yeah it was quite easy to lose time reading this. Kvothe is obviously a skilled musician, but I would argue that Rothfuss (who does not play) has a keen understanding of rhythm as well.

Also, I just remembered Kvothe setting bullies on fire, so that was cool too.

Velius
Feb 27, 2001

Robotnik posted:

But, again, I don't give a poo poo what actually happens to Kvothe. I'm sure it (his future) will be fortuitous and a total product of his supreme intellect.

Not to be overly contrary, but did you, you know, read the portions of the book that aren't retrospective? He's a washed up innkeeper, in hiding who is as much despised as the things he fought against. That's one of the more interesting parts of the story - he's brilliant, and yet flawed enough that he's his own worst enemy. Even if the telling of his tale redeems him somehow, he's still hit rock bottom, most of which will likely be his own fault.

pseudorandom name
May 6, 2007

Velius posted:

Not to be overly contrary, but did you, you know, read the portions of the book that aren't retrospective? He's a washed up innkeeper, in hiding who is as much despised as the things he fought against. That's one of the more interesting parts of the story - he's brilliant, and yet flawed enough that he's his own worst enemy. Even if the telling of his tale redeems him somehow, he's still hit rock bottom, most of which will likely be his own fault.

Don't forget that he's burned out any magical ability he once had and is basically as helpless as the next guy against the monsters he's unleashed on the world.

A Nice Boy
Feb 13, 2007

First in, last out.
I was never terribly bothered by the "he's amazingly good at a lot of things" situation that so bothers some people. If you read the back of the novel before you buy it, you basically know exactly what kind of story you're in for...It's the story of a legendary wizard, one of the most amazing historical figures in that world's history, so of course that's the kind of character he's going to be. I put myself in that sort of mindset before the book started and it never bothered me.

That said, as some folk have pointed out, I think they added enough personality flaws and arrogance and such to make the character nicely rounded out. He's amazingly skilled, but his personality is highly flawed. It's a good middle ground.

Mahlertov Cocktail
Mar 1, 2010

I ate your Mahler avatar! Hahahaha!

mastur posted:

Yeah it was quite easy to lose time reading this. Kvothe is obviously a skilled musician, but I would argue that Rothfuss (who does not play) has a keen understanding of rhythm as well.

This reminds me how much I loved how big of a role music had in the story. I can so relate to the nervousness of performing a solo in front of a large, critical audience and with not wanting to let others touch my instrument. The scene at the Eolian where Kvothe auditions for his talent pipes is so well done.

greatZebu
Aug 29, 2004

A Nice Boy posted:

I was never terribly bothered by the "he's amazingly good at a lot of things" situation that so bothers some people. If you read the back of the novel before you buy it, you basically know exactly what kind of story you're in for...It's the story of a legendary wizard, one of the most amazing historical figures in that world's history, so of course that's the kind of character he's going to be. I put myself in that sort of mindset before the book started and it never bothered me.

That said, as some folk have pointed out, I think they added enough personality flaws and arrogance and such to make the character nicely rounded out. He's amazingly skilled, but his personality is highly flawed. It's a good middle ground.

I think the "he's incredibly talented at almost everything" aspect of the story is less problematic than the "all the antagonists are incompetent assholes" aspect. Kvothe seems pretty insufferable at times; surely he could have had some higher quality opposition than Ambrose and Hemme.

A Nice Boy
Feb 13, 2007

First in, last out.

greatZebu posted:

I think the "he's incredibly talented at almost everything" aspect of the story is less problematic than the "all the antagonists are incompetent assholes" aspect. Kvothe seems pretty insufferable at times; surely he could have had some higher quality opposition than Ambrose and Hemme.

True, though I think they laid the groundwork for that stuff at the very end of the book, if you remember what happens. I wish they'd done a little more foreshadowing as far as whoever the big enemy/ies turn out to be, but I figured this is just the first third of the story...We just haven't been introduced to the big antagonists yet.

Mahlertov Cocktail
Mar 1, 2010

I ate your Mahler avatar! Hahahaha!

A Nice Boy posted:

True, though I think they laid the groundwork for that stuff at the very end of the book, if you remember what happens. I wish they'd done a little more foreshadowing as far as whoever the big enemy/ies turn out to be, but I figured this is just the first third of the story...We just haven't been introduced to the big antagonists yet.

:confused: But... the Chandrian? Haliax?

Bullio
May 11, 2004

Seriously...

I enjoyed the book and I'm looking forward to the next one. Someone mentioned somewhere on these forums, I think either in the last thread about his book or in the quotes thread, that whenever they read it, they hear it in the voice of Zapp Brannigan.

Here's a little bit from below they posted to illustrate their point.

quote:

I have stolen princesses back from sleeping barrow kings. I burned down the town of Trebon. I have spent the night with Felurian and left with both my sanity and my life. I was expelled from the University at a younger age than most people are allowed in. I tread paths by moonlight that others fear to speak of during day. I have talked to Gods, loved women, and written songs that make the minstrels weep.

You may have heard of me.


Now I can't un-hear it.

neongrey
Feb 28, 2007

Plaguing your posts with incidental music.

Bullio posted:

I enjoyed the book and I'm looking forward to the next one. Someone mentioned somewhere on these forums, I think either in the last thread about his book or in the quotes thread, that whenever they read it, they hear it in the voice of Zapp Brannigan.

Thing is... I'm not entirely sure this is the wrong idea either. He's clearly trying to make himself good through all of this.

ultrachrist
Sep 27, 2008
I used to read a ton of fantasy as a teenager (note: I'm 25 now) and a high school buddy of mine never stopped and told me to read The Name of the Wind as an example of current, good fantasy.

I thought it was terrible. When you have a perfect hero who is good at everything and villains who are just dumb bullies, there is never any sort of tension to the story. As a result I don't really care what happens to the protagonist.

The arrogant young buck vs. broken man dichotomy could have worked if it wasn't a bloated fantasy novel and moved quicker and had more of old Kvothe. For how well edited the book is supposed to be, you have entirely superfluous sections. The long period of time where he is a beggar is completely pointless since he easily adapts back to normal life (which is completely ridiculous btw; Can you imagine having your parents killed at a young age and living several years on the street and not being socially/emotionally hosed for at least a few years??). The ending is equally pointless and feels really out of place.

Also the love interest and most of the women in the novel are embarrassingly bad.

silly
Jul 15, 2004

"I saw it get by the mound, and I saw Superman at second base."
I bought this book based off Amazon recommendations and then someone who I trust on books said it was terrible, so I went in reading it anyway with low expectations. In the end I thought it was alright.

It's more akin to Harry Potter than epic fantasy. The focus is on one character and there really isn't much in the way of a grand sweeping plot beyond him. Lots of other things are hinted at it but that's it really. It reads as a pretty standard coming of age type story.

Based on this novel, I wouldn't put Rothfuss in the same class as Martin, Abercrombie, Lynch, Sanderson, or other active fantasy authors of that ilk.

Melche
Apr 29, 2009

ultrachrist posted:

The arrogant young buck vs. broken man dichotomy could have worked if it wasn't a bloated fantasy novel and moved quicker and had more of old Kvothe. For how well edited the book is supposed to be, you have entirely superfluous sections. The long period of time where he is a beggar is completely pointless since he easily adapts back to normal life (which is completely ridiculous btw; Can you imagine having your parents killed at a young age and living several years on the street and not being socially/emotionally hosed for at least a few years??). The ending is equally pointless and feels really out of place.

This is my issue with the whole thing. I don't care that he's a crazy prodigy, the problem is that he doesn't change at all through the whole thing. The whole point is a character study of what's supposed to be a fascinating person, and he's the exact same dude on the first page as the last.

I think there's literally one paragraph when he snaps back after the whole beggar section. Watched his parents murdered, spent his formative years on the street literally never talking to anyone, gets ambiguously raped I think, and it "all comes flooding back" in one paragraph. He's not behind on studies, still light years ahead of people 5 years older than him. Not out of practice having not touched an instrument for years, still a prodigy. Not the least bit of social maladjustment, PTSD, trust issues, nothing. The result is that it seems completely self-indulgent, it's just there so the protagonist can have the darkest of dark pasts. It serves no narrative function and has no lingering effect.

I think this is what people are getting at when they complain he's too perfect. It's not a problem that he's too smart, you could write a really awesome book about the world's greatest prodigy, especially one with all the crippling psychological issues this dude should have. But this isn't really it.

I don't mean to get all angry, it's not terrible. The writing is really pretty good when he's just writing the story (when he's making a conscious effort to Write, like the descriptions of the girl or the opening page about silence, it's cringeingly purple). But there really isn't any characterisation in the whole book. He's the most boringly static character ever, his enemies are just straight up bad, stupid people, his best friends are nonentity sidekicks. It's a pretty fundamental flaw for a book about what made him the man he is, that should be entirely character driven.

Dr Scoofles
Dec 6, 2004

The young Kvoth narrative is, however, just a story told by a washed up innkeeper to a captive audience. Chances are he's going to bullshit to make himself sound bad rear end, I would. Just because old Kvoth says it happened doesn't mean we have to beleive him.

Also, I myself can still really enjoy a story even if the baddy isn't an all powerful Voldemort style figure. Ambrose is an irritating little shitbag, and it's fun to read about irritating shitbags getting 'what's coming to them'. (Thats the only reason I read Sharpe novels, to read how some jumped up officer gets kicked in the bum by a scruffbag round about page 300.)

Mahlertov Cocktail
Mar 1, 2010

I ate your Mahler avatar! Hahahaha!

Dr Scoofles posted:

Also, I myself can still really enjoy a story even if the baddy isn't an all powerful Voldemort style figure. Ambrose is an irritating little shitbag, and it's fun to read about irritating shitbags getting 'what's coming to them'. (Thats the only reason I read Sharpe novels, to read how some jumped up officer gets kicked in the bum by a scruffbag round about page 300.)

But we know he's underestimating Ambrose because Kvothe says that Ambrose gets him kicked out of the University further down the line. Additionally, I didn't get the impression that Rothfuss is setting the Chandrian up to be pushovers.

Melche
Apr 29, 2009

Dr Scoofles posted:

The young Kvoth narrative is, however, just a story told by a washed up innkeeper to a captive audience. Chances are he's going to bullshit to make himself sound bad rear end, I would. Just because old Kvoth says it happened doesn't mean we have to beleive him.

True, but he's supposed to be a storytelling prodigy as well. I can definitely buy him telling a rose-tinted self aggrandizing story, but it shoudln't be a bad one. See basic characterisation failure described at tedious length above.

Totally Huge
Mar 10, 2006

Cold brew got me like...

College Slice
When this book first came out, I picked it up off the shelf to read a few pages. Based on the intro, I thought it seemed pretty horrible. Now that I know a bit more about the book from these forums, I will most likely never give it a shot. I have no interest in reading a book that makes me roll my eyes every page.

I understand that the character is telling his own story and making himself out to be a bad rear end superstar at everything, but why is that entertaining? Everyone knew that kid when they were younger, the one that would make poo poo up all the time to sound cool and impress people. Nobody wants to hear that kid's stories, so why do I want to know how this dude saved a princess while rocking out a perfect solo on his lute after killing a dragon with a pen knife. It just doesn't seem like I could get into it at all.

A book with a very well done lying first person narrator is The Book of the New Sun, and it is one of my favorites. So I'm not against the idea. It's just that Kvothe seems like nothing more than a Mary Sue.

Mahlertov Cocktail
Mar 1, 2010

I ate your Mahler avatar! Hahahaha!

Chaglby posted:

I understand that the character is telling his own story and making himself out to be a bad rear end superstar at everything, but why is that entertaining? Everyone knew that kid when they were younger, the one that would make poo poo up all the time to sound cool and impress people. Nobody wants to hear that kid's stories, so why do I want to know how this dude saved a princess while rocking out a perfect solo on his lute after killing a dragon with a pen knife. It just doesn't seem like I could get into it at all.

That's... not an accurate description of the book at all. How about you read it then decide for yourself if you like it. Although your confirmation bias is probably be so strong at this point that you wouldn't let yourself like it even if it were appealing to you.

Edit: Came off as more confrontational than I intended. Still, you should maybe read enough to judge for yourself before saying that a book is bad. :)

Mahlertov Cocktail fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Nov 15, 2010

Bizob
Dec 18, 2004

Tiger out of nowhere!

Chaglby posted:

When this book first came out, I picked it up off the shelf to read a few pages. Based on the intro, I thought it seemed pretty horrible. Now that I know a bit more about the book from these forums, I will most likely never give it a shot. I have no interest in reading a book that makes me roll my eyes every page.

I understand that the character is telling his own story and making himself out to be a bad rear end superstar at everything, but why is that entertaining? Everyone knew that kid when they were younger, the one that would make poo poo up all the time to sound cool and impress people. Nobody wants to hear that kid's stories, so why do I want to know how this dude saved a princess while rocking out a perfect solo on his lute after killing a dragon with a pen knife. It just doesn't seem like I could get into it at all.

A book with a very well done lying first person narrator is The Book of the New Sun, and it is one of my favorites. So I'm not against the idea. It's just that Kvothe seems like nothing more than a Mary Sue.

Dude, really? "I read a few pages of the intro and decided I hate the entire book. Why do all of you people like a book that I haven't rea?."

Metonymy
Aug 31, 2005

Chaglby posted:

Nobody wants to hear that kid's stories, so why do I want to know how this dude saved a princess while rocking out a perfect solo on his lute after killing a dragon with a pen knife. It just doesn't seem like I could get into it at all.

A book with a very well done lying first person narrator is The Book of the New Sun, and it is one of my favorites. So I'm not against the idea. It's just that Kvothe seems like nothing more than a Mary Sue.

As far as I recall it doesn't even really go so far as to suggest that he really lies or exaggerates his accomplishments (which might make him a more interesting character). I think the way it's played in the book, other people are responsible for exaggerating his already-awesome deeds. The end result is that he ends up seeming even more like a Mary Sue -- guy does awesome things, gets praised as Even More Awesome.

Mahlertov posted:

That's... not an accurate description of the book at all. How about you read it then decide for yourself if you like it. Although your confirmation bias is probably be so strong at this point that you wouldn't let yourself like it even if it were appealing to you.

I... think it's an accurate description of the book. The villains are one-dimensional (OkCupid profile -- likes: being bad / dislikes: Kvothe) and the protagonist is a badass with a natural knack for everything.

If you're into the fantasy version of the Horatio Alger myth, you're going to enjoy this book, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. But it's about as stone-cold straightforward as fantasy narratives get. The narrator hints at Kvothe's complex internal mental life, but the hints are expressed as the sort of angst that an adolescent confuses for emotional depth.

Melche posted:

He's the most boringly static character ever, his enemies are just straight up bad, stupid people, his best friends are nonentity sidekicks. It's a pretty fundamental flaw for a book about what made him the man he is, that should be entirely character driven.

The Saviour
Feb 19, 2006

I'm currently re-reading this in anticipation for the sequal next year, and on my secon go, i kind of warmed up to Kvothe. More for when he fails he's at his most interesting. like watching his father's lute being destroyed, getting the tar beaten out him on the streets, or walking off the roof of the insane asylum thinking Elodin will carry him to safety

I like the way magic is presented in the world, and the present time threat seems to be pretty interesting too. I love the Malazan Book of the Fallen more than any other fantasy series, but this might just carry me on after it finishes in 2011. I just hope he doesn't take another three years to release the third book.

A Nice Boy
Feb 13, 2007

First in, last out.

Mahlertov Cocktail posted:

:confused: But... the Chandrian? Haliax?

True, hah...Was very tired when I was writing that, and spaced it. That said, we see so little of them that I still feel we haven't really been introduced to what is going to be the main conflict.

Benson Cunningham
Dec 9, 2006

Chief of J.U.N.K.E.R. H.Q.
I want to say I liked Name of the Wind. Now that's out of the way.

The entire second half of the book reads like this. "Oh poo poo, I'm poor and I really need money. How will I get money? I know, I'll do X. Sweet, X worked. Oh no, X wasn't enough money, or it was but suddenly I need more. Does anyone have money to give me? You do, no I can't take your money. Money. Money money money money money money money money money money."

I think Patrick Rothfuss is writing an expose on the underpaid average author half the time.

Mahlertov Cocktail
Mar 1, 2010

I ate your Mahler avatar! Hahahaha!

Benson Cunningham posted:

I think Patrick Rothfuss is writing an expose on the underpaid average author half the time.

Or the poor undergrad scrambling to find tuition.


A Nice Boy posted:

True, hah...Was very tired when I was writing that, and spaced it. That said, we see so little of them that I still feel we haven't really been introduced to what is going to be the main conflict.

It's true that we didn't see much of them, but considering they were the ones who killed Kvothe's family and the rest of the troupe plus the background story about Lanre/Haliax indicates to me that Kvothe is going to confront them at some point.

Mahlertov Cocktail fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Nov 15, 2010

Juaguocio
Jun 5, 2005

Oh, David...
I enjoyed Name of the Wind, but I find that the frame narrative saps a lot of the tension out of the story. We already know that Kvothe becomes a supremely powerful and famous dude, so a lot of the "formative years" stuff really fell flat for me, especially when he's able to solve his problems so easily. The parts up until the troupe was massacred were really great, but I found myself caring very little for a lot of the parts where he's just wandering around in the wilderness. I found the whole "dragon" bit pretty silly too.

All that being said, this series has a ton of potential. Rothfuss could do a lot of interesting things with the frame narrative to mix things up, and I really, really hope he does so. My guess is that our opinion of Kvothe is going to change a lot as the series progresses.

Personally, I can't wait until he finds out more about the song his dad was writing about Lanre.

Totally Huge
Mar 10, 2006

Cold brew got me like...

College Slice

Bizob posted:

Dude, really? "I read a few pages of the intro and decided I hate the entire book. Why do all of you people like a book that I haven't rea?."

I didn't say I hated the entire book, I just don't really care to read it at this point. My disdain is clearly based on more than the first few pages. Also, I tend to not pick up a series when it is just starting, especially from an unknown author. So far, this seems like a pretty mediocre one to me. The last series I started at the beginning was Lynch's, and look where that has gotten me. I won't read A Song of Ice and Fire for the same reason, even though I'm pretty sure I'd like it. Bottom line is, I've got a long list of books to read and this one is not towards the front.

Anyway, if another book or 2 comes out (I don't know how long the series is planned to be, or if its length is planned at all) and it seems interesting at that point then I'll give it a shot. Why do people get so butthurt when other people don't like something that they do? I'm just putting my 2 cents into the discussion. I sincerely was asking why anyone would read what I feel like is some washed up old guy bragging about his awesomeness in youth for several hundred pages. The other guys that quoted me added to the discussion, you did not.

I was still slightly interested in trying the book at some point even after the intro turned me off until I read the thread a while back in which someone stated the book is much better when you read it in the voice of Zapp Brannigan, which someone mentioned already.

Triple-Kan
Dec 29, 2008

The back of the book posted:

My name is Kvothe, pronounced nearly the same as "quothe." Names are important as they tell you a great deal about a person. I've had more names than anyone has a right to. The Adem call me Maedre. Which, depending on how it's spoken, can mean The Flame, The Thunder, or The Broken Tree.

"The Flame" is obvious if you've ever seen me. I have red hair, bright. If I had been born a couple of hundred years ago I would probably have been burned as a demon. I keep it short but it's unruly. When left to its own devices, it sticks up and makes me look as if I have been set afire.

"The Thunder" I attribute to a strong baritone and a great deal of stage training at an early age.

I've never thought of "The Broken Tree" as very significant. Although in retrospect, I suppose it could be considered at least partially prophetic.

My first mentor called me E'lir because I was clever and I knew it. My first real lover called me Dulator because she liked the sound of it. I have been called Shadicar, Lightfinger, and Six-String. I have been called Kvothe the Bloodless, Kvothe the Arcane, and Kvothe Kingkiller. I have earned those names. Bought and paid for them.

But I was brought up as Kvothe. My father once told me it meant "to know."

I have, of course, been called many other things. Most of them uncouth, although very few were unearned.

I have stolen princesses back from sleeping barrow kings. I burned down the town of Trebon. I have spent the night with Felurian and left with both my sanity and my life. I was expelled from the University at a younger age than most people are allowed in. I tread paths by moonlight that others fear to speak of during day. I have talked to Gods, loved women, and written songs that make the minstrels weep.

You may have heard of me.
:goonsay:

Evfedu
Feb 28, 2007
Sick emoticon-burn, bro. Sick.

In fairness though, yeah, a lot of this book is goony. The author comes across as a bit of a goon in interviews, the protagonist is a sperging white-knight goon, the bitter old version of the protagonist is a spent and useless... goon, running away from the world.

And yet I really enjoyed the book, yeah it's a ludicrous wish-fulfillment mixture of Good Will Hunting and Harry Potter but hey, the prose is lovely when he's not over-writing it to death, the story clips along at a nice rate and it's a pretty decent YA fantasy novel.

The Zap Brannigan thing also makes it very funny.

Bhaal
Jul 13, 2001
I ain't going down alone
Dr. Infant, MD
I have to admit the golden boy protagonist stuff was a detraction, but that's more a criticism of the overused model than his execution of it. That and the huge middle segment that sounded like LJ entries of a struggling college student. Every mini chapter might've well ended with "Current mood: angsty at being rejected by social circles. Current funds: 24 farthings and 3 jots".

That being said, he had some very bright moments and he's got strength with themes and storytelling, which is perfect for fantasy. I'm hoping he'll shake loose of a lot of the new writer trappings because there's good potential: Flesh out and lean on a series of minor characters (and their interactions and reactions! that's the payoff), shorten up those long tedious segments, put a new spin or two on the whole superman protagonist (he may already have this coming down the line). I'll definitely be picking up the sequel.

Oh and don't turn into robert jordan / GRRM

anathenema
Apr 8, 2009
I used to think Name of the Wind was objectively bad. I've since come to realize that it's really just not a book for me. I'm a fan of Joe Abercrombie, George R.R. Martin and Scott Lynch, of course, but if I were to call those objectively good, I'd be equally mistaken in saying that their depictions of humanity were the most realistic.

Granted, they're a little more realistic than the concept of Kvothe is great, everyone who hates him is ugly and stupid, but they're still unrealistic in that everyone tends toward the sheer, unrelenting, unrepentant jerk ends of things, which is also a little silly.

In the end, it's fantasy, and if you can swallow the premise, you'll find a great story in there. Me, I couldn't. It's still an excellent piece and I recognize its value, but it wasn't for me.

I'd have an easier time saying it was bad if I didn't know Rothfuss did a lot of work with charity and busted his butt for it.

anathenema fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Nov 16, 2010

Melche
Apr 29, 2009

anathenema posted:

I used to think Name of the Wind was objectively bad. I've since come to realize that it's really just not a book for me...

I kinda wanna reiterate what I said earlier, because I think a lot of people are complaining about the wrong things and the defences are pretty valid. I dislike this book because it follows one character through his early life, as he apparently matures into the legendary hero he's gonna become. It's entirely character based. And yet, there's no character development whatsoever.

I don't dislike it because he's too perfect, or constantly talks about how awesome he is. That's intentional. He's a narcissistic prodigy who spent his early life training with a troupe of actors and has an obsession with mythologising himself. That's fine, and could have worked really well.

I don't dislike it because of the occasionally retardedly florid writing, or goony goony atttitudes towards women or any of that other crap, because those are bad, but the sort of flaws that loads of books have and you overlook if it's engaging enough.

But, I really think it is objectively bad. I'm saying it basically fails fundamentally at what it's trying to do, with the complete failure to develop a character or have any of his experiences meaningfully affect him. Makes the book completely substance-less. The whole book sort of felt like an introduction, like I was kind of pissed off at the end that the writing had been good enough to string me along for the whole book without ever developing into something substantial.

It's a shame because like people have said, when he isn't going overboard the writing is pretty good. I kind of wish he'd written a self-contained book or two (I don't know if he has?) before diving straight into some three-book magnum opus epic. Because this book might have been good if he had a bit more experience of structure and character, but I think he hasn't given himself much to work with. Felt very style-over-substancy. (I don't know nearly enough about writing to make that assessment, that's just kind of what it feels like).

greatZebu
Aug 29, 2004

Melche posted:

I kinda wanna reiterate what I said earlier, because I think a lot of people are complaining about the wrong things and the defences are pretty valid. I dislike this book because it follows one character through his early life, as he apparently matures into the legendary hero he's gonna become. It's entirely character based. And yet, there's no character development whatsoever.

This got me thinking. Is there any character development at all in the book, for anyone? The only example I can think of is Lanre, which we are told about third-hand and affects a character we know almost nothing about. Everyone else seems static, character-wise. I enjoyed the first book despite its flaws, but this does not bode well for the sequels. Watching Kvothe become an embittered shell of a man would be interesting, but I'm not confident that we'll get to see it.

Octoduck
Feb 8, 2006

Rudy had heart,
but he still sucked.

Melche posted:

I kinda wanna reiterate what I said earlier, because I think a lot of people are complaining about the wrong things and the defences are pretty valid. I dislike this book because it follows one character through his early life, as he apparently matures into the legendary hero he's gonna become. It's entirely character based. And yet, there's no character development whatsoever.

I don't dislike it because he's too perfect, or constantly talks about how awesome he is. That's intentional. He's a narcissistic prodigy who spent his early life training with a troupe of actors and has an obsession with mythologising himself. That's fine, and could have worked really well.

I don't dislike it because of the occasionally retardedly florid writing, or goony goony atttitudes towards women or any of that other crap, because those are bad, but the sort of flaws that loads of books have and you overlook if it's engaging enough.

But, I really think it is objectively bad. I'm saying it basically fails fundamentally at what it's trying to do, with the complete failure to develop a character or have any of his experiences meaningfully affect him. Makes the book completely substance-less. The whole book sort of felt like an introduction, like I was kind of pissed off at the end that the writing had been good enough to string me along for the whole book without ever developing into something substantial.

It's a shame because like people have said, when he isn't going overboard the writing is pretty good. I kind of wish he'd written a self-contained book or two (I don't know if he has?) before diving straight into some three-book magnum opus epic. Because this book might have been good if he had a bit more experience of structure and character, but I think he hasn't given himself much to work with. Felt very style-over-substancy. (I don't know nearly enough about writing to make that assessment, that's just kind of what it feels like).

I had fun reading this fantasy novel.

Melche
Apr 29, 2009

Octoduck posted:

I had fun reading this fantasy novel.

WELL YOU WERE WRONG

mastur
Mar 26, 2007

queefing the ice beard.
Oh poo poo, I hope I wasn't wrong also!

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Xenix
Feb 21, 2003

pseudorandom name posted:

Don't forget that he's burned out any magical ability he once had and is basically as helpless as the next guy against the monsters he's unleashed on the world.

I read this a while back, but I don't remember this at all. When did it say that?

Juaguocio posted:

All that being said, this series has a ton of potential. Rothfuss could do a lot of interesting things with the frame narrative to mix things up, and I really, really hope he does so.

I'm really hoping that a lot of the things people don't like about it are due to Kvothe, not Rothfuss, being the author for almost all of the novel (akin to how Gene Wolfe's characters are the story tellers most of his works). I'm probably just being overly optimistic and will be utterly disappointed when the second book comes out.

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