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mojo1701a
Oct 8, 2008

Oh, yeah. Loud and clear. Emphasis on LOUD!
~ David Lee Roth

Threads exist for both production (the Cinematography thread) and pre-production (the Screenwriting thread), so I thought it'd make sense if there was a general editing and/or post-production thread.

I'm not sure how many people there are that work here compared to the semi-regular Cinematography thread, but let's see if we can give this a shot.

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butterypancakes
Aug 19, 2006

mmm pancakes


There is an FCP thread that somehow survives being archived in SH/SC but this is really a better place for it if you ask me.

I'm an editor who works in Avid MC and FCP. I love one and after a few weeks pine for the other.

Recently it seems the internet is filled with nothing but hate for FCP. Too many people offended that they have to convert their DSLR footage to a decent format before editing.

mojo1701a
Oct 8, 2008

Oh, yeah. Loud and clear. Emphasis on LOUD!
~ David Lee Roth

butterypancakes posted:

There is an FCP thread that somehow survives being archived in SH/SC but this is really a better place for it if you ask me.

I didn't think to check SH/SC. But thanks.

Also, about Avid: I haven't really edited much on it, but I am going to start a project on it soon. How different is it compared to FCP? I know that it's not all that drag-and-drop like, and I use FCP as if it were Avid (ie. not doing things like shoving all the footage on the timeline and seeing what sticks). I'm referring to more of the technical side.

I ask because I co-edited a short for a director who wasn't happy with the final cut (it got meddled with), so he's given me cart blanche to edit it from scratch, and I was thinking of using Avid to do it. My concerns so far are for the capturing process. The footage is on a few miniDV tapes.

Rogetz
Jan 11, 2003
Alcohol and Nicotine every morning

I've been doing my own editing since I was in school, and I used to intern for a TV station ingesting and logging footage, while cutting the occasional interstitial or promo. It wasn't too bad until the RAID crashed and I lost 40 hours of footage that I had to re log and capture. If nothing else, it made me realize that I didn't want to do editing as a career.

JimFinlay
Mar 22, 2005


mojo1701a posted:

Also, about Avid: I haven't really edited much on it, but I am going to start a project on it soon. How different is it compared to FCP? I know that it's not all that drag-and-drop like, and I use FCP as if it were Avid (ie. not doing things like shoving all the footage on the timeline and seeing what sticks). I'm referring to more of the technical side.

I ask because I co-edited a short for a director who wasn't happy with the final cut (it got meddled with), so he's given me cart blanche to edit it from scratch, and I was thinking of using Avid to do it. My concerns so far are for the capturing process. The footage is on a few miniDV tapes.

I've just upgraded to version 5 of Avid and by default it actually had this retarded tool set activated that forces you to drag and drop the footage. It's easily turned off, but I was a little surprised. One of the reasons I like Avid is because I work fast, and up until now it's always been tailored towards three point editing.

I haven't captured from tape in quite a while, so this may have changed in later versions, but Avid has always been very particular about capture settings. Any tapes you capture absolutely have to match your project settings. For example, if the footage has been shot in HDV PAL 1080i, you must set your resolution to 1080i50 and then additionally set the raster dimension to 1440x1080. If you forget the latter the capture tool simply won't pick up the video stream. Again, though, maybe later versions have eased up on this restriction. It's something to bear in mind anyway.

butterypancakes
Aug 19, 2006

mmm pancakes


JimFinlay posted:

I've just upgraded to version 5 of Avid and by default it actually had this retarded tool set activated that forces you to drag and drop the footage. It's easily turned off, but I was a little surprised.

That's hosed up. I'm still on 3.5 over here without any real problem.

I got much faster when I moved away from dragging and dropping and embraced the keyboard. Avid is the perfect tool to learn how to be more deliberate with your edits.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


mojo1701a posted:

I use FCP as if it were Avid (ie. not doing things like shoving all the footage on the timeline and seeing what sticks). I'm referring to more of the technical side.

I'm helping out a friend who's editor just bailed on him in the middle of production for a reality show pilot - when I opened up the FCP project, the timeline was a gigantic mess with clips on at least 10 video tracks, lots of 2-3 frame gaps with nothing in between, ripple transitions, out of sync audio and video, pointless speed effects (SLOOOOOOWMOOOOO for emphasis!), and probably a million other things that are horrible.

I love working in Final Cut Pro, but people out there don't seem to know how to use it.

bassguitarhero
Feb 29, 2008



I work for CBS Interactive doing a bunch of their online news editing, and we do it all in FCP but the other editors can get to be real pissheads about things. I had one guy scoff at me because I was using 3 video tracks (one for A-roll and two for B-roll), looks at me and goes, "Checkerboarding? Sha. Haven't seen that since editing 101!" and walks out. Whatever.

Not as bad as some of the TV studios I'd heard of, I worked at a film school for a while in the UK and one of the coworkers saw me teaching a class on FCP for teens and was like, "You're teaching them the blade tool? It's 3 point editing all the way, if the mates at iTVS saw you using a blade tool you'd be fired on the spot!" Of course, if you're teaching people NLEs for the first time, I prefer to keep things as non-abstract as possible, and things like the blade tool make for very quick learning & understanding of how to splice and re-arrange video clips on a timeline.

Never really used Avid. The only time it would have ever been useful was when I was interviewing for Pixar but they didn't like some of the movies I'd worked on so I was never really in the running anyways.

My freelancing is sort of balancing between cinematography & editing. Most of the work throughout the year will be editing, but the big jobs will be camerawork. Now that I'm getting into after effects, there's a lot of little things cropping up for that, too.

Finally got a retail version of FCS 2 (was using an academic of FCS 1 for the longest) so I'm really looking forward to upgrading to 3 when the financials clear up. Not been a pretty year for freelancers.

bassguitarhero fucked around with this message at Nov 26, 2010 around 18:44

Peacebone
Sep 6, 2007


I've been editing using Final Cut Pro both through school and an internship with a local entertainment company. I spent about a week with Avid in one of my classes and was really terrible at it, however I know that it's a part of the industry standard so I feel that it's wise to be able to use it proficiently

My dilemma is that I would like to purchase an editing software to learn more, and get better but I can really only afford one. Should I go for Final Cut or get Avid.

edit: also why is final cut $900 with student discount and Avid only $300. drat you Apple!

Peacebone fucked around with this message at Nov 26, 2010 around 23:33

Lando2
Jan 16, 2010

Turns out just hunks

So it's my first time working on a full project (I shot a music vid for a friend) and I'm wondering if it's okay to just load up the footage from my DSLR and start editing in FCP. I have used FCP before with other small projects that weren't full blown HD stuff but I'm wondering about export settings as well to retain the picture quality. I won't be using any speed effects, just cutting together a bunch of clips to sync. Pretty basic stuff but any tips are appreciated. I'll probably upload it later for critique.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


I would recommend transcoding all the clips to ProRes (LT or regular) before editing.

bassguitarhero
Feb 29, 2008



Peacebone, depending on where you're at and what you're working on, that will decide. I myself have never worked on an avid NLE. Never needed to and aside from one interview it's never come up.

I live and work in san Francisco but a buddy of mine works in LA and all he works on is FCP so I think your money's better there. At least for me it's a better investment, the odds of getting a project in avid aren't ad great as getting a project in FCP.

To the DSLR dude, transcode your clips to apple pro-res 4:2:2 and save yourself a gigantic headache.

Lando2
Jan 16, 2010

Turns out just hunks

Gotcha thanks. Is there any benefit to transcoding it beforehand or even at all? It has to be rendered either way but I was wondering what the trade-offs are? I read that it helps a bit with major effects and things like that which I won't be using.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


If you want your cuts to be frame accurate at all, you should definitely transcode to ProRes or any similar intermediate format. Working in ProRes will let you use some effects and transitions in real time without rendering (such as color correction or cross dissolves). Hell, unless you have at least a quad core machine, I don't think you could even play DSLR video on your FCP timeline without rendering.

Jalumibnkrayal
Apr 16, 2008



Lipstick Apathy

Lando360 posted:

Gotcha thanks. Is there any benefit to transcoding it beforehand or even at all? It has to be rendered either way but I was wondering what the trade-offs are? I read that it helps a bit with major effects and things like that which I won't be using.

I might be off on this, but I think the best way to do it currently is to edit it natively in Premiere Pro CS5. You don't need to transcode or use an intermediate codec. It creates a 32bit "float" image that gets edited, so the dogma of never editing H.264 gets bypassed. If you have an approved Nvidia CUDA video card, it will even render effects in real time. Seriously, it's pretty amazing if you work with a lot of HD DSLR footage.

butterypancakes
Aug 19, 2006

mmm pancakes


Jalumibnkrayal posted:

I might be off on this, but I think the best way to do it currently is to edit it natively in Premiere Pro CS5. You don't need to transcode or use an intermediate codec. It creates a 32bit "float" image that gets edited, so the dogma of never editing H.264 gets bypassed. If you have an approved Nvidia CUDA video card, it will even render effects in real time. Seriously, it's pretty amazing if you work with a lot of HD DSLR footage.

You're still accepting generation loss on render or export.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


Has anyone set up a Compressor/Qmaster server before? I see old Powermac G5's running around for $200 and am tempted to set a couple up as clusters for rendering. Do you absolutely have to have a SAN to maximize their use, or can you just make sure that each cluster has a copy of all the media?

butterypancakes
Aug 19, 2006

mmm pancakes


1st AD posted:

Has anyone set up a Compressor/Qmaster server before? I see old Powermac G5's running around for $200 and am tempted to set a couple up as clusters for rendering. Do you absolutely have to have a SAN to maximize their use, or can you just make sure that each cluster has a copy of all the media?

Just doing a quick cluster is good enough, it'll copy the needed media. A gigabit network is pretty much a must.

Not sure how much those G5s will actually help.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


Oh in that case, I could probably get away with an iMac + 2 Macbook Pros then. For some reason I thought you needed towers with some kind of fibre channel RAID setup.

edit: vvvvv Yeah but I already have the laptops and iMac

1st AD fucked around with this message at Nov 28, 2010 around 08:51

bassguitarhero
Feb 29, 2008



You might be a lot happier with a few intel mac minis, sounds like less hassle, less heat, electricity, etc

NeuroticErotica
Sep 9, 2003

Perform sex? Uh uh, I don't think I'm up to a performance, but I'll rehearse with you...



butterypancakes posted:

Recently it seems the internet is filled with nothing but hate for FCP. Too many people offended that they have to convert their DSLR footage to a decent format before editing.

DSLR fanatics are worse than the Red cultists. There I said it. You were thinking it, I said it.

bassguitarhero
Feb 29, 2008



Seriously. A buddy of mine from college just bought a 5D and won't shut the gently caress up about how much better it is than my HVX.

Okay yeah your camera that came out in the last year is better than my HVX I've had for 5 years. Duh. But I've also paid for the camera a dozen times over and shot movies across the world. So I don't need some waiter with his new DSLR talkin poo poo about my camera

And of course you get piles of insufferable morons who post job ads who ONLY want a DP with their own 5D so they can do every single shot with a ridiculous DoF.

But that's the industry for ya

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


I do event videography, mostly for the local clubs and some magazines, and for some reason I see legions of unpaid videographers sporting 7D's or 5D's with 50mm primes even when they're impractical. Everyone talks poo poo about my HMC40, but I've paid for it several times over in 9 months of usage, and after something like 30 shoots, I've had a grand total of 1 client complain about image quality.

I have access to 5DmkII's and a collection of fast primes, but they are really unwieldy to use in the types of shoots that are my bread and butter.

NeuroticErotica
Sep 9, 2003

Perform sex? Uh uh, I don't think I'm up to a performance, but I'll rehearse with you...



bassguitarhero posted:

But that's the industry for ya

Not really. It's mostly just vocal amateurs.

Kolchak
May 3, 2006

If I don't tell this story now, I don't think I ever will.

I had to cut a little "happy snap" video for a client a month or so ago that was shot on a 5D. It was just footage of people arriving at a conference, shaking hands with the president, greeting old friends, hugging, kissing, etc. etc. But the weird thing was that whenever they noticed the camera was on them, people would smile and just freeze. Half of the footage I had was unusable because everyone thought they were posing for a still photographer. The shooter never bothered to correct any of them; he would just wait a few seconds before saying "okay thanks, got it" and so a good percentage of the shots were of people standing perfectly still with stupid grins on their faces. I've had an irrational disdain for the camera ever since...

bassguitarhero
Feb 29, 2008



NeuroticErotica posted:

Not really. It's mostly just vocal amateurs.

I suppose if you want to go to work for a studio then that might be a bit easier, but that's not the way I roll, so

EnsGDT
Nov 9, 2004

~boop boop beep motherfucker~


Hey guys, whatcha workin on in here?

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


Nothin' much


Click here for the full 800x600 image.

butterypancakes
Aug 19, 2006

mmm pancakes


Cutting a concert. If you've got opinions on concert DVDs check out my thread in CineD.
http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...hreadid=3367918

Momonari kun
Apr 6, 2002
Yes, you needed video.

For an editing reel, what kinds of scenes are best to show off? I have a few different kinds of scenes but am wondering how many and for how long. I need to prep one for a possible job opening and want to show that I'm competent but not bore them to death.

cubicle gangster
Jun 26, 2005

magda, make the tea


Does anyone here use node based post production for video, or is that only used with cg too?



I usually use premiere to edit video. It's a mess, but it's all we've got in work and I dont do it often enough outside to get my own software...
Usually end up doing a lot of filmed internals - mixing our cg with their footage of a showroom.

cubicle gangster fucked around with this message at Nov 30, 2010 around 15:23

butterypancakes
Aug 19, 2006

mmm pancakes


Premiere is a mess. Give Avid MC a shot, it might make more sense. I don't know of any editor that's node based, some have node like features but video editing sorta requires a timeline.

Editing is just a different animal. Trust me, I'm so helplessly lost in Maya.

cubicle gangster
Jun 26, 2005

magda, make the tea


I dont get to pick. Work has premiere, I use premiere. It's a pain in the arse but until it causes the office to catch fire, it wont be changed

I know you dont do editing with nodes - but the thread title does say post production too

butterypancakes
Aug 19, 2006

mmm pancakes


Avid DS and Smoke are both node based to a certain extent. Most compositing programs are, Nuke, Shake, even Combustion.

Other than the FX room in Color my only node experience is with Combustion. I thought it was an easy introduction to it, you're not forced to work that way. Shake still gets the best of me, it's good thing I don't have to spend much time there.

butterypancakes fucked around with this message at Nov 30, 2010 around 18:02

mojo1701a
Oct 8, 2008

Oh, yeah. Loud and clear. Emphasis on LOUD!
~ David Lee Roth

Momonari kun posted:

For an editing reel, what kinds of scenes are best to show off? I have a few different kinds of scenes but am wondering how many and for how long. I need to prep one for a possible job opening and want to show that I'm competent but not bore them to death.

I'm sort of in the same boat. I put together a demo reel for some of my work, and I was looking to see if I could get some feedback:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yMARNb8zmQ

This isn't the final version, but a preliminary version uploaded so I can get some comments and criticisms.

I will point out one thing: I'm already switching the second video and the first one.

Momonari kun
Apr 6, 2002
Yes, you needed video.

mojo1701a posted:

This isn't the final version, but a preliminary version uploaded so I can get some comments and criticisms.

The color switches noticeably in the first video in scene a few times (the one shot of the boy vs the two shot of boy and priest). I also don't know if it's Youtube, my computer or what, but most of the reel is pretty dark. In the first video it is hard to see their faces clearly, and the last video is just dark the whole way through.

Also, in the second video, it's kind of a personal thing, but if it's music-only, and one with a prominent beat, it sounds strange all chopped up. I would just take the source music and put it over that section, kind of like what you did with the third video (unless you just put the whole thing in there).

mojo1701a
Oct 8, 2008

Oh, yeah. Loud and clear. Emphasis on LOUD!
~ David Lee Roth

Momonari kun posted:

The color switches noticeably in the first video in scene a few times (the one shot of the boy vs the two shot of boy and priest). I also don't know if it's Youtube, my computer or what, but most of the reel is pretty dark. In the first video it is hard to see their faces clearly, and the last video is just dark the whole way through.

Hmm, I'll have to work on that. It may be just youtube. Though that's the way the source looked. The cinematographer and gaffer weren't very experienced, so the lighting was pretty bad. I'm just hoping that the editing is good enough to make people say, "Well, the lighting wasn't his job."

I'm also pretty sure that if I lighten it any more, it may look like crap. It could also be the encoding. I was using one of the defaults in Compressor (I only really use compressor to make dvd video); it's something I should study further.

quote:

Also, in the second video, it's kind of a personal thing, but if it's music-only, and one with a prominent beat, it sounds strange all chopped up. I would just take the source music and put it over that section, kind of like what you did with the third video (unless you just put the whole thing in there).

Makes sense. Honestly, that's pretty much the whole video, but I took out a few cuts because there were one or two cuts that I thought were jarring. If you're interested in seeing what it looks like fully to compare, it's here.

And as for the last video, that's pretty much the whole video (except for the ending. It's a long story).

Momonari kun
Apr 6, 2002
Yes, you needed video.

Well, with reels/scripts/resumes/whatever, I always think that the person watching it is of the mindset of "any little thing off is a reason to choose someone else". I'd try brightening the clips a bit. If there's noise, it probably won't be too bad, especially on Youtube.

mojo1701a
Oct 8, 2008

Oh, yeah. Loud and clear. Emphasis on LOUD!
~ David Lee Roth

Momonari kun posted:

Well, with reels/scripts/resumes/whatever, I always think that the person watching it is of the mindset of "any little thing off is a reason to choose someone else". I'd try brightening the clips a bit. If there's noise, it probably won't be too bad, especially on Youtube.

Point taken. I showed the reel to a friend of mine who was the sound editor for the first video. The first thing out of his mouth (well, via MSN) was that he hates the sound. The person who did the boom had never done it before (it was a class project), and the church scenes were the first scenes we'd shot, so she didn't have a chance to learn.

Oh, and I plan to put this up on Vimeo, if that makes a difference, since I used a different username (I figure my youtube username) to seem more professional or whatever.

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bassguitarhero
Feb 29, 2008



Vimeo's a much better choice for reels and stuff, IMO.

Hopefully I'll get around to sharing some pics of my setup later. I've got two doc trailers to edit together (one just landed in my lap today), so I definitely think I'll be spending the rest of the week (hell the year) with FCP open more often than not.

Node-based video editing looks like a complete nightmare.

BTW, does anybody teach Final Cut? I'm going in for an interview to teach FCP & general video production to youngsters - I used to do it at a film school in London, but that was more that I'd been hired for other stuff and sort of moved into teaching a few classes here and there.

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