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Das MicroKorg
Sep 18, 2005

Vintage Analog Synthesizer


We recently tried to calibrate several monitors at the office, with a special calibration tool that was also used to calibrate digital cinema projectors (don't remember the name, but it was not a Color Spyder ) and even with screens above $1000, all of them were complete rubbish. Most screens just lack proper controls over their parameters. Ideally you have HSL parameters for each RGB channel. The guy who owned and operated the calibration tool told us that HP's Dreamcolor monitors would be pretty nice, but they are above $2k as well.

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Moon Potato
May 12, 2003



Given that I can't afford something with true color accuracy at the moment, would you recommend just chucking a couple hundred dollars at an LED-backlit display that will give me a better idea of how much I should crush my blacks for now, or would something along the lines of that $1000 panasonic display leave me with footage that will require considerably less work to do once I'm able to book time in a proper color correction suite?

Das MicroKorg
Sep 18, 2005

Vintage Analog Synthesizer


Okay, the following is really not an accurate solution, but then again, I've seen TV editors grade things in Final Cut under way worse conditions and they got away with it.

I would get a screen with an IPS panel (maybe check some online reviews and the monitor thread in SH/SC) and a Color Spyder 3 and do some tests. Sometimes the Color Spyders do some whacky poo poo, so if your screen looks "off" somehow (e.g. super saturated) you'll have to eyeball it to a more normal looking level from there. Maybe compare your screen to other devices by loading some test images (photographs as well as those test charts with rgb and greyscale boxes) and placing the screens next to each other. When you're done, grade some footage, paying close attention to the waveforms and vectorscopes and check it on other screens afterwards. Notice what happens to your grade and try to get a feeling for your screen. Oh, and make sure that you don't have direct light shining on your screen/in your eyes and that there are no colored surfaces around/behind it.

You could also see if there is an experienced color grader in your area that could assist you, when calibrating your screen and setting up your workspace.

Moon Potato
May 12, 2003



Thanks - that solution's probably the best fit for me right now, since my major client over the next year will be able to pay for proper facilities/equipment for his projects, and most of my other personal/freelance projects won't require that level of perfection.

Momonari kun
Apr 6, 2002
Yes, you needed video.

What's the industry breakdown on editing suites nowadays? The new Final Cut is coming out soon (presumably end of June, but who knows), but an industry friend of mine told me not to bother with it and switch over to Media Composer, because that's all he's working with and he hasn't worked on a show yet that uses Final Cut. I'm doing some personal projects now but will be trying to get a job in editing (or something else related) in a few years, so should I go for Avid or just stick with Final Cut? Probably a bit premature because of the new version, but I was wondering. My friend says it's a lot about how both programs handle offline editing. My Avid knowledge comes from Xpress Pro about seven years ago and I never used it seriously.

Teenage Fansub
Jan 28, 2006



You should really know both.
I usually work in reality TV and all that's ever been for me is Avid, but then I've never done anyone's music video or short film without FCP.
Both are prevalent enough that you'd be cutting yourself out of a lot of opportunities to just learn one.

Momonari kun
Apr 6, 2002
Yes, you needed video.

Sounds good. I'll likely get the Final Cut upgrade and then go from there. Any reason why reality TV tends to lean towards Avid (my friend does reality TV as well)?

Teenage Fansub
Jan 28, 2006



I guess its the legacy of the 30-50yo editors there and I'm not sure, but sharing a central raid for projects and media between suites might suit Avid more.

Gunjin
Apr 27, 2004

Om nom nom

It really just depends on where you are, the people who do the "Good Eats" show are a FCP shop. I do corporate work and we only use FCP. I've even freelance shot for a small place that does college sports, weddings, and event videos that refuses to use anything except Sony Vegas. If you can, become familiar with FCP, Avid, and Adobe Premiere, I personally wish I knew more than just FCP, it would open up a lot of jobs. Also if you can learn any of the color grading or motion graphics software, those open more windows too. My personal project for this year is to teach myself Color.

On the subject of the upcoming new FCP, it is basically a ground up rewrite so if you can it would be good for you to learn both the current and the new version. A lot of people won't be switching to the new version any time soon (if some of the rumors about it's inability to import from/output to tape are true it may be quite a long time before FCP 7 disappears).

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


Gunjin posted:

Also if you can learn any of the color grading or motion graphics software, those open more windows too. My personal project for this year is to teach myself Color.

I've heard that Apple is abandoning development of Color, so you might want to learn something like Resolve. I think the free version of Resolve comes out next month, so you can get your feet wet without spending cash on the software or the interfaces.

Gunjin
Apr 27, 2004

Om nom nom

1st AD posted:

I've heard that Apple is abandoning development of Color, so you might want to learn something like Resolve. I think the free version of Resolve comes out next month, so you can get your feet wet without spending cash on the software or the interfaces.

There have been some screenshots and information leaked, Color and Motion are both surviving, though they may be rolled into FCP X.

EDIT: Will check out the free Resolve though, hadn't heard about that, thanks for the heads up.

Gunjin fucked around with this message at Jun 21, 2011 around 01:07

Moon Potato
May 12, 2003



Gunjin posted:

There have been some screenshots and information leaked, Color and Motion are both surviving, though they may be rolled into FCP X.

EDIT: Will check out the free Resolve though, hadn't heard about that, thanks for the heads up.

I think they specifically stated in their NAB presentation that Color was going to be integrated into FCPX. This seems like a wise move, since Color has some limitations on what it can display from your FCP timeline (transitions and most filters aren't visible).

Teenage Fansub
Jan 28, 2006



FCPX, Motion and Compressor are up now on the app store.
http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/
Anyone willing to take the plunge and report back on it?

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003


Hello darkness,
my old friend


Teenage Fansub posted:

FCPX, Motion and Compressor are up now on the app store.
http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/
Anyone willing to take the plunge and report back on it?

We will most likely buy a test copy today so I can give a trip report.

bassguitarhero
Feb 29, 2008



I've only got one Intel machine so I'm waiting for some results before I upgrade. I'm only on FCS2 so I'm still a little behind anyways, but I'm in the middle of a bunch of projects anyways and can't afford to mess up all my settings. Can't wait, though. If I wind up getting another machine I'll buy it early, otherwise I'll probably wait til things slow down at the end of the summer.

Gunjin
Apr 27, 2004

Om nom nom

Gary Adcock has a good article up on Creative Cow based on his use of a prerelease version:
http://library.creativecow.net/adcock_gary/FCPX/1

This is a 1.0 type app, there is a lot missing from FCP X right now. No lay out to tape, no export to OMF, no import/export of XML, no multicam, no native r3d support, new integrated Color not as full featured as current Color program. Apple is claiming they are going to push out updates through the app store very quickly to address these issues. Our current plan is to download it and use it side by side to learn, and do smaller projects while waiting for more features to be updated.

butterypancakes
Aug 19, 2006

mmm pancakes


It doesn't look like it's ready for the office, but if my MBP wasn't so old I'd get it for home in a heart beat. I can't wait to play with Audition and the Magnetic Timeline. Hopefully it doesn't take them long to update v1 with XML/OMF export and Multiclip timelines.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


Are there any substantial under the hood changes to Compressor? It looks exactly the same, no UI overhaul or anything...

magiccarpet
Jan 3, 2005




http://vimeo.com/25421438

To quote a R3D post..."no OMF support , no xml out or in , no edl in/out , no r3d , no multi cam , no 3rd party device support , apparently some of these things are coming just not in version 1 today. no way to import a previous project yet"

You. Cant. Export. To. Tape.

Garbage.

sethsez
Jul 13, 2006

He's soooo
dreamy...


Well ain't that some bullshit.

I have some hope for the future of FCPX, but there's no reason for it to have been released in this state. Nobody was chomping at the bit to pay $300 for a beta with significantly fewer features than the previous version.

If this doesn't get updated fast I could see it being more damaging to Apple's position in the editing world than if they had just gone another year without updates. I mean, that would have hurt too, but releasing a product that can't export to tape? That's actively pushing people to look for alternatives.

Momonari kun
Apr 6, 2002
Yes, you needed video.

With features being gutted and an OpenCL card requirement, looks like I'd be better off getting Final Cut 7 for a hopefully discounted price.

magiccarpet
Jan 3, 2005




sethsez posted:

Well ain't that some bullshit.

I have some hope for the future of FCPX, but there's no reason for it to have been released in this state. Nobody was chomping at the bit to pay $300 for a beta with significantly fewer features than the previous version.

If this doesn't get updated fast I could see it being more damaging to Apple's position in the editing world than if they had just gone another year without updates. I mean, that would have hurt too, but releasing a product that can't export to tape? That's actively pushing people to look for alternatives.

Everyone called them on this the moment it was introduced at NAB. I was there, people were at first excited and then got slowly more and more pissed as the presentation went on. In fact, as I was walking out, some guys who teach those Apple certification classes were yelling. And then there's the drunken AJA party afterwards...

Immediately after a select group of beta testers said 'you haven't seen it all... they haven't shown everything.' Guess what, they did. And now anyone who needs to do something like use Color, export an EDL, export an XML.. LAY TO TAPE... is left out.

This was the plan and everyone hoped we were just seeing the top layer. And now its out and people are still saying it. Its pretty hosed up when a major piece of professional software ships and its saving grace is 'I'm sure they'll make it better like the old version.' FCS 3 was a stop-gap as Premiere started to really get moving. This was supposed to be Apple's big answer to it. Instead, this is Apple showing that their pro-apps are going towards the Lion/IOS mentality of drag/drop/social media is king.

gently caress, gently caress, gently caress this software. It is unusable.

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003


Hello darkness,
my old friend


magiccarpet posted:

gently caress, gently caress, gently caress this software. It is unusable.

This. We all used it today and there is a laundry list of missing features that any one of which is a deal breaker for our production environment. The word we kept using was 'astonished' because we couldn't believe how bad this thing is. And the fact that they keep saying 'IT WILL STILL WORK WITH FCP7!' but yet you can't buy it is loving ridiculous.

Today has validated THREE years of my campaigning that we should switch back to Avid because Apple only cares about iDevices. To quote Dr. Ian Malcom: "Boy, do I hate being right all the time."

magiccarpet
Jan 3, 2005




FURTHERMORE I just talked to an old boss of mine who runs a facility of 20 machines.

They're all off the internet, because thats how people who operate real machines keep their poo poo together.. and they can't get to the software because you need to be logged in to the App Store to get it. And there's no volume licensing.

Then he said 'I guess we can't mix our spots in Pro Tools anymore because you can't OMF' so I guess mixing in FCPX is the only way to do this now.

This is so mindboggleing backwards I can't believe this has actually been published. Cool if you're a 5D kinda guy, but there's some of us who make broadcast work for a living...

Teenage Fansub
Jan 28, 2006



All I want to do with it is set up a bedroom operation for music videos, so I'm still excited.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


Anyone working with MC5 on Mac? I'm just diving in and trying to figure it out. Where can I change the display preferences? My primary monitor sits on the right and my secondary/preview display on the left, but Avid seems to default to the opposite. I've been trying to dig through the bin for the right setting, but everything is so alien to me right now.

todieat20
Sep 25, 2003
Hobos Protect Children From Horses

1st AD posted:

Anyone working with MC5 on Mac? I'm just diving in and trying to figure it out. Where can I change the display preferences? My primary monitor sits on the right and my secondary/preview display on the left, but Avid seems to default to the opposite. I've been trying to dig through the bin for the right setting, but everything is so alien to me right now.

I think you can set up the all of the windows they way that you want them, and then under Toolset you can select Save Current. Your bins and windows should always pop up the way you saved them after that.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


Yeah but I can't get the full screen preview to play on the other display, is there a way to route the output?

butterypancakes
Aug 19, 2006

mmm pancakes


mayodreams posted:

Today has validated THREE years of my campaigning that we should switch back to Avid because Apple only cares about iDevices. To quote Dr. Ian Malcom: "Boy, do I hate being right all the time."

Yeah, they only care about iDevices, that's why they spent lots of time and money rewriting FCP from scratch. It'll be updated, if it doesn't work for you then use 7. My main client still has 6, it's fine.

Not sure why people are so disappointed, it's not ready, so don't use it yet.

Das MicroKorg
Sep 18, 2005

Vintage Analog Synthesizer


butterypancakes posted:

Not sure why people are so disappointed.
Seriously? They announced the next great editing suite and specifically NOT an "iMovie Pro" product, yet they seemed to have released exactly that.

Cpt. Spring Types
Feb 19, 2004

Wait, what?

butterypancakes posted:

Not sure why people are so disappointed, it's not ready, so don't use it yet.

I think they're disappointed because it's not ready. It's iMovie Pro right now. Still hella slick, and I am going to totally fall in love with some of the features, but I can see why people moving from FCP7 are disappointed with it. It's not at a professional level. I'm not a professional editor, so I'm not about to demonize Apple for abandoning professionals, since I have time to learn how to use it, and don't have to worry about my workflow slowing down like crazy. It would have been nice for it to be more like FCP and less like iMovie, though. But considering it's a totally new piece of software, it makes sense that there's going to be a learning curve, and missing features on the first loving day.

It's definitely got great potential, and I'm considering it a version 1.0 release, so bring on the updates, Apple!

I use a Canon T2i, and so far, I haven't been able to get X to identify my camera in "Import From Camera". Am I missing something, or is it just not a compatible camera?

Cpt. Spring Types fucked around with this message at Jun 22, 2011 around 18:03

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


You want to import from file or whatever it's labeled - they changed all the terminology in this release, import from camera is what log and capture used to be.

butterypancakes
Aug 19, 2006

mmm pancakes


FLX posted:

Seriously? They announced the next great editing suite and specifically NOT an "iMovie Pro" product, yet they seemed to have released exactly that.

Why is it iMovie Pro? Because it looks like iMovie? Because it can't export an XML? Ever tried to get a decent EDL out of Premiere?

You can't tell me that Clip Connections and the Inline Editors aren't vast improvements over FCP 7. Or that background rendering won't be copied by every other editor in the coming years.

It's a total rewrite, that's the real advantage. Adding a few features to 7 and putting it out for $1000 would have lead to more users on day 1, but QT and FCP 7 are on their last leg. Something had to be done and Apple took the time to do it. Even if they wait a year to add things like XML and OMF export and even then if you have to pay another $300. You've still got a new editor on the most modern code base out there for half the price of FCS.

Das MicroKorg
Sep 18, 2005

Vintage Analog Synthesizer


butterypancakes posted:

Why is it iMovie Pro? Because it can't export an XML, OMF, EDL, to tape ... can't import FCP7 projects ...
Exactly. It hardly fits into a professional workflow yet. The UI and code may be totally amazing, but it doesn't matter if I can't use the application for more than I would use iMovie. It's like that time Adobe decided to drop Audition and came out with Soundbooth instead

And I never had problems with the EDLs from Premiere so far

bassguitarhero
Feb 29, 2008



Apple took a chance and rewrote the entire code based on where they think editing is headed. It's a 1.0, not as much a successor to fcp7. Im interested in seeing where it goes but it would be a fool's errand to update to this if you're in a pro shop. Give it some time and we'll see, they're essentially trying to jump ahead a couple of generations instead of trying to continue dragging legacy code and old workstyles forward

magiccarpet
Jan 3, 2005




We already had a stopgap. It was Final Cut Studio 3. And immediately we were told - wait for what we have cooking. Then we get this new software and are immediately told - wait for what we have cooking.

Nobody wanted Apple to rush this. We were all waiting for 64 bit, full core/RAM support, the big Gamma issue fix, etc. Anyone- ANYONE - would have waiting another 6 months for all of this to be added. Instead, HUGE pieces of the software were removed. And don't say its legacy... XML is new poo poo. Having an external monitor to see what you are doing is kind of necessary. Authoring a DVD or Blu Ray is still a solid delivery format.

Anything needing color correction, protools mixdown, any external graphics apps timing, output to tape, is going to bypass this software.

Movies will no longer be cut on FCP. Commercials will no longer be cut on FCP.

butterypancakes
Aug 19, 2006

mmm pancakes


magiccarpet posted:

Instead, HUGE pieces of the software were removed.

I think you mean "have yet to be added".

Gunjin
Apr 27, 2004

Om nom nom

Based on what I've seen and read I want to know how Apple is going to handle collaborative workflows, with how FCPX handles media management and projects, it seems like it's impossible to have more than one person, especially people not connected to the same storage device, work on a project.

It seems like it's a good program for a single person editing something by themselves, but so far it seems poo poo for a post house.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


At the moment it seems to be geared towards people with really simple workflows (e.g. prosumers). Ignore the fact that you can't OMF or XML at the moment, what really bugs me is the inability to have multiple projects or sequences open at the same time. I'm sure the intention is for you to rely on metadata to manage your media and projects, but for me it totally messes with my ability to quickly deliver multiple videos with shared elements.

I guess I could just copy/paste, but a lot of my stuff is render heavy and in FCP7 I could render an element once and then nest it in multiple sequences.

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mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003


Hello darkness,
my old friend


I am mostly going to cross post from what in the Mac Software thread with some more detail for this thread.

Well, we have been waiting for 2 years since FCP7, which was a minor update to FCP6 from 2007. The FCP camp is getting really impatient with Apple because there has been a real lag in updates and support while Avid and Adobe are killing with it price cuts, new features, and camera support. So Apple swears up and down we are going to love the new FCP! Then they ship something that does not have the following features:
  • Open/import an FCP 6 or 7 project
  • Open or an export an EDL/XML
  • Control a tape deck
  • Zero OMF support
  • RED / Sony / Canon Codecs
  • 3rd Party Hardware
Any one of those features is a deal breaker for our production environment, much like essentially any other post house out there. While I agree that tapeless is the future, you can not ditch it now and expect everyone to be ok with it.

Since we get a huge discount with Avid, we are going to pitch moving to the REAL platform of professionals, where the company actually listens to the user base and ships finished and throughly tested products.

So the quick rundown is that right now with FCPX, you can't bounce to Pro Tools for audio via OMF, you can't do color correction via FCPX because it doesn't support 3rd party monitors so you can't use a color accurate monitor AND you can't send it out to another system because it won't export XML/EDL. Which means that anyone not shooting wedding videos and actually considers themselves professionals can't finish their show/film. It is a loving joke.

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