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Canned Sunshine
Nov 20, 2005

CAUTION: POST QUALITY UNDER CONSTRUCTION



LRADIKAL posted:

What's the best way to "camp" stores with a bot or web service or whatever so I can buy one of these stupid things?

(32" 4K QD-OLEDS, obv)

Do you have a particular one in mind?

ethanol posted:

edit: there is a bug in Mac OS with this monitor though. 240 HZ mode makes the Mac run out of memory with no apps open. Had to turn it down 120 hz to make it stop crashing.

Out of curiosity, what's your machine? I don't even see anything higher than 120 hz in macOS on it, and no VRR option either.

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ethanol
Jul 13, 2007



16" MBP with M2 Pro. Going out of the built in hdmi port. It lets you select 240 so I dunno. It doesn't matter too much to me, if I'm doing something that needs 240 hz it's gonna be in windows.

runchild
May 25, 2010

420 smoke 🎨artisanal🍑 melange erryday

Is gaming at sub-4K resolutions on a 27" 4K monitor as terrible an idea as some people make it out to be? Or is it basically fine even if itís not as good as playing on a native resolution monitor? Iím seeing a lot of conflicting opinions.

I ask because a gaming monitor for a hypothetical PC build would have to pull double duty as my primary work screen due to limited desk space, and Iím put off by the idea of 1440p being half the resolution I currently work at. I donít expect anything in my price range to truly measure up to the Retina iMac I got from work, but the Gigabyte M27U seems like it hits the sweet spot for work and gaming and not breaking the bank. Itís even got a handy-dandy KVM switch built right in. But I donít think I can afford to target 4K.

LRADIKAL
Jun 10, 2001

Fun Shoe

Canned Sunshine posted:

Do you have a particular one in mind?

I'm about to run off to work, but all except the most curved one. :) They all seem to have quirks and differences, but none of them are really deal breakers to me, and I'm like "gently caress it" on the MSRP differences.

Edit: huh, only the Dell is curved out of the MSI, Asus and Dell and it's a more minor curve that I'm cool with, so any of them.

LRADIKAL fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Feb 23, 2024

Anti-Hero
Feb 26, 2004

LRADIKAL posted:

I'm about to run off to work, but all except the most curved one. :) They all seem to have quirks and differences, but none of them are really deal breakers to me, and I'm like "gently caress it" on the MSRP differences.

Edit: huh, only the Dell is curved out of the MSI, Asus and Dell and it's a more minor curve that I'm cool with, so any of them.

I'd be interested in getting reliable stock alerts, as well!

Thirst Mutilator
Dec 13, 2008

runchild posted:

Is gaming at sub-4K resolutions on a 27" 4K monitor as terrible an idea as some people make it out to be? Or is it basically fine even if itís not as good as playing on a native resolution monitor? Iím seeing a lot of conflicting opinions.

I ask because a gaming monitor for a hypothetical PC build would have to pull double duty as my primary work screen due to limited desk space, and Iím put off by the idea of 1440p being half the resolution I currently work at. I donít expect anything in my price range to truly measure up to the Retina iMac I got from work, but the Gigabyte M27U seems like it hits the sweet spot for work and gaming and not breaking the bank. Itís even got a handy-dandy KVM switch built right in. But I donít think I can afford to target 4K.

Had the same concerns when buying a M27U and in my limited (like 4 week) experience, it's fine. I'm still running a secondary 1440p monitor, so I tested the difference by switching between them on Helldivers 2 with the game resolution set to 1440p and the rendering scale at "native", there IS a difference in sharpness, but it's not really noticeable in motion and not significant in stills (I can try to take some screenshots if you'd like, though I don't know how helpful they'd be). The difference in sharpness certainly doesn't outweigh the benefits the 4K provides me for productivity/work (again, IMO). Put another way, if I could only keep one of the two monitors, I'd keep the 4K in a heartbeat, but I'm also totally comfortable playing games even at 1080p or with crazy performance render scaling/DLSS.

EDIT: to clarify, they're both 27" monitors (M27U and Nixeus EDG27), so it should be a fair comparison of 1440p on a native 1440p vs native 4k monitor, things like color, etc. aside.

Thirst Mutilator fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Feb 23, 2024

LRADIKAL
Jun 10, 2001

Fun Shoe
Well, I checked my company discount program, and I can get 10 percent off of a Dell monitor. So I did!

Dr. Video Games 0031
Jul 16, 2004

runchild posted:

Is gaming at sub-4K resolutions on a 27" 4K monitor as terrible an idea as some people make it out to be? Or is it basically fine even if itís not as good as playing on a native resolution monitor? Iím seeing a lot of conflicting opinions.

I ask because a gaming monitor for a hypothetical PC build would have to pull double duty as my primary work screen due to limited desk space, and Iím put off by the idea of 1440p being half the resolution I currently work at. I donít expect anything in my price range to truly measure up to the Retina iMac I got from work, but the Gigabyte M27U seems like it hits the sweet spot for work and gaming and not breaking the bank. Itís even got a handy-dandy KVM switch built right in. But I donít think I can afford to target 4K.

In games, a 1080p output on a 27" 1440p monitor looks like rear end, but I've found 1440p on a 32" 4K monitor to actually look okay. It is softer than native 1440p but not dramatically so, and I imagine it would look even better on a 27" 4K monitor.

I would still prefer to try to target a full 4K output when possible, with DLSS or other in-game upscaling options if necessary. But if those aren't an option or aren't enough, then I bet 1440p output will still look good in games.

Thirst Mutilator posted:

(I can try to take some screenshots if you'd like, though I don't know how helpful they'd be).

Not very. Even if you can match the scaling quality, there's no way to do a proper comparison on a screen with a static pixel density.

Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Feb 23, 2024

LRADIKAL
Jun 10, 2001

Fun Shoe
https://www.techspot.com/news/102011-msi-new-monitors-cause-uproar-reddit-over-firmware.html

MSI isn't releasing enough firmware updates?

I've never bought a high end TV or monitor before. What's the expectations of support and updates in this segment?

change my name
Aug 27, 2007

Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

LRADIKAL posted:

https://www.techspot.com/news/102011-msi-new-monitors-cause-uproar-reddit-over-firmware.html

MSI isn't releasing enough firmware updates?

I've never bought a high end TV or monitor before. What's the expectations of support and updates in this segment?

For OLED monitors I would argue they're important, whether to fix issues with VRR (or Dolby Vision, as with the Alienware), but also for pushing features like better brightness standardization and optimizing screen care protection. For instance, the Corsair Xeneon Flex and 27" 1440p model had a brightness stabilization mode of 150 nits that was later updated to 250ish through firmware, that's a huge improvement

wash bucket
Feb 21, 2006

LRADIKAL posted:

I've never bought a high end TV or monitor before. What's the expectations of support and updates in this segment?

I don't have any particular expertise here but based off my most recent TV purchase the expectation is the drat thing won't work correctly out of the box and months later they'll fix it with firmware updates.

MrMidnight
Aug 2, 2006

Yeah firmware updates are pretty important for both monitors and now even TVs nowadays. Taking a risk buying a monitor that won't allow the user to update it.

K8.0
Feb 26, 2004

Her Majesty's 56th Regiment of Foot
I think it matters, but only for OLEDs and maybe FALD displays. Normal LCDs are so well understood at this point that unless something shows up in early reviews, it's almost certain there are no real issues.

I think there will be ongoing issues with all OLEDs that AREN'T 4k at this point, because they are now semi-budget products that likely don't have a BOM significantly below 4k OLEDs, so they're going to be super tight margin and important poo poo is going to get missed or cut. IMO the whole divide for the next few years is going to be 4k OLED vs sub-4k LCDs, with some cheap 4K LCDs filling in the middle until OLED jumps from early adopter to mainstream.

kliras
Mar 27, 2021
msi have had some pretty significant firmware updates to their optix mag monitors including changes to edid, so it's weird of them to take this stance

if i had to assume some level of competence on msi's part, it's because it's super easy to brick your monitor by turning off the monitor during a firmware update, and they probably have an rma backlog to tell the story

monitors are very much still not a solved problem as far as a bunch of fancy features out there, and this is definitely going to bite them in the rear end

Redundant
Sep 24, 2011

Even robots have feelings!
Any thoughts on this screen as a cheap option whilst I wait for OLED prices to drop a little?

shrike82
Jun 11, 2005

another oddity with the alienware 32, relative to the 34, is the "shared" brightness being a lot more obvious.
just having a browser open side-by-side with a video player will have the browser brighten and dim in reverse to the video

phosdex
Dec 16, 2005


shrike82 posted:

another oddity with the alienware 32, relative to the 34, is the "shared" brightness being a lot more obvious.
just having a browser open side-by-side with a video player will have the browser brighten and dim in reverse to the video

I actually don't know how you fix that, but it is not normal. It happened to me after I got a new gpu and then messing around with hdr off and maybe then changing on the monitor to hdr1000 or something before enabling hdr again in windows set it back to normal.

Canned Sunshine
Nov 20, 2005

CAUTION: POST QUALITY UNDER CONSTRUCTION



LRADIKAL posted:

https://www.techspot.com/news/102011-msi-new-monitors-cause-uproar-reddit-over-firmware.html

MSI isn't releasing enough firmware updates?

I've never bought a high end TV or monitor before. What's the expectations of support and updates in this segment?

Itís just on the MAG version, the cheapest model (or supposed to be I think); the MPG and MEG versions could get firmware updates.

The whole thing is dumb business decision-wise and Iíll bet they change course.

Dr. Video Games 0031
Jul 16, 2004

K8.0 posted:

I think it matters, but only for OLEDs and maybe FALD displays. Normal LCDs are so well understood at this point that unless something shows up in early reviews, it's almost certain there are no real issues.

I think there will be ongoing issues with all OLEDs that AREN'T 4k at this point, because they are now semi-budget products that likely don't have a BOM significantly below 4k OLEDs, so they're going to be super tight margin and important poo poo is going to get missed or cut. IMO the whole divide for the next few years is going to be 4k OLED vs sub-4k LCDs, with some cheap 4K LCDs filling in the middle until OLED jumps from early adopter to mainstream.

In terms of manufacturing costs, I think we could see midrange 27" QD-OLED and WOLED panels become viable, but the biggest problem is that there isn't enough supply yet to meet the demand that would generate, so LG and Samsung are sticking with high-margin high-end panels for now.

CSOT is going to begin mass production with their Inkjet-printed OLED panels in the second half of this year, possibly with some monitor panels planned. The initial promise of this process was that it would be cheap and scalable, but JOLED, the company who developed it, went bankrupt because they couldn't get their yields high enough. If CSOT can realize this promise in JOLED's stead, then I think we could see the introduction of sub-$500 OLED monitors within the next year or two.

Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Feb 24, 2024

Dr. Video Games 0031
Jul 16, 2004

The Alienware AW3225QF just got a firmware update that adds an "off" setting for Dolby Vision mode: https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-us/drivers/driversdetails?driverid=499fy&oscode=wt64a&productcode=aw3225qf-monitor

This doesn't fix the fact that the monitor is incorrectly set to Dolby Vision mode while in HDR mode in Windows, but it is a workaround. Iíve disabled DV and have observed the following on my unit:

First, while in DV mode previously, the black level was slightly raised in SDR content. You could see this by turning off your lights and looking at the monitor with a solid black screen, and seeing that it will still be emitting a small amount of light. I believe the black level must have still been very low, but it was raised nonetheless. This no longer happens while the monitor is in HDR10 mode (which is when DV is disabled). This may have also been happening in HDR content, but I canít confirm that.

Second, Windows HDR Calibration now properly calibrates to 1000 nits. Previously, it would calibrate to around 480 nits. In games that failed to make the monitor engage HDR10 mode, I can now calibrate to a higher brightness in those too. Despite calibrating to half the brightness in games like Like a Dragon: Infinite Wealth while in DV mode, I still observed bright highlights that exceeded 500 nits. The game also previously had an artificially high-contrast look to it while in DV mode that appears to be gone now. Essentially, the tone mapping was off, and it felt like highlights were too bright and midtones and shadows were too dark. The tone mapping now appears more natural in HDR10 mode.

Third, the ABL is much more aggressive in HDR10 mode compared to DV mode, at least for SDR content. You can see this easily while viewing a website with a white background. Switch between DV Dark and DV Off, and youíll see that the white level is much brighter with DV Dark at any given Windows brightness level compared to DV Off. At 100% brightness with DV disabled, it seems well below the 250 nits the monitor should be capable of. I canít measure because my colorimeter is still not working correctly (thereís some bizarre driver issue that began when I ill-advisedly installed calibriteís software suite, and now it only works with that software), but full-white brightness seems to be less than 200 nits now?

Overall, the ability to disable DV is great news for the accuracy and ease of use of content that previously failed to make the monitor enter into HDR10 mode, though the overly aggressive ABL for SDR content is strange and a bit unfortunate.

edit: The overly aggressive ABL for SDR content while in HDR mode only seems to happen in the Peak 1000 mode. The True Black 400 mode has a very weak ABL, with brighter full-screen white brightness and less intense brightness for white text on black backgrounds. But you don't get the super bright highlights in HDR content in that mode, so it's still a tradeoff.

Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 12:02 on Feb 26, 2024

Icept
Jul 11, 2001
Got impatient and ordered the AW2725DF. Put it on the company card :ssh:

MrMidnight
Aug 2, 2006

Thanks for the write up and good to hear the firmware release. The issue with ABL on the two HDR10 modes was also a thing on the 34" widescreen Alienswares (DW and DWF versions). I hate ABL so I usually use True Black.

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ijyt
Apr 10, 2012

i dont recall noticing any ABL issues on mine

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