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MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:

What I really like about that guy is his writing style. He takes something that is often very dry, and makes it enjoyable to read. If my math teachers had done this with geometry and algebra, I might care about mathematics.

Oh poo poo. :ohdear: Gotta start the new page with a plane!



I see your Beagle, and raise you a Blinder.

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MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

StandardVC10 posted:

Many years ago in the mid-nineties I was a preteen train nut. During that time there was a magazine we got at my house, called Railpace, which once featured a picture of a big, many-wheeled boxcar looking thing that was actually supposed to hold a missile in it (not sure if they were ICBMs or smaller stuff) I can't completely remember the intended purpose of the exercise, it might have been tactical dispersal or it might have been moving the missile from one base to another.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peacekeeper_Rail_Garrison_Car

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Godholio posted:

Might. You don't retire a leg of the triad on a "might."

Unless that leg is Minutemans. The only purpose they serve currently is first strike, which we would never do, and soaking up warheads.

As to the other conversations above, it is vital to have firebrand "nuke em till they glow, and then bounce the rubble" types in the deterrent forces. A large part of deterrence is making the enemy believe that you are not only capable, but WILLING to push the button once their missiles fly.

Those same people should obviously never be allowed near the actual button, but they damned sure should be in the chain of command, in case the rational people get turned into their constituent molecules by a decapitating strike.

It really is loving crazy, but it seems to work.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...


Nukes, Japan could do if they had the will.

Giant transforming robots? I think if they had the technical ability, the island would already be a smoldering wreckage from the resulting AI war.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...


In an effort to re-rail the thread: Thuds give me a stiffy. If they don't have a similar effect on you, go back to the veganism thread.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

grover posted:

To use a car comparison, visibility in a Honda S2000 with the top closed isn't too bad if you're a driver with short legs and the seat is slid up, but it's simply godawful if you're tall and have the seat slid full back- the windows are the same, just the perspective is different.

Aircraft are generally engineered to have very specific Design Eye Positions, or ranges of positions. Many aircraft are even equipped with eye position indication, so that the pilot can get himself in the position intended by the manufacturer for optimum sight lines out of the aircraft. It is my understanding that military aircraft have tighter tolerances, because of the reliance on HUDs, however, the F-35s HMD might negate that a bit. However, there is still ZERO chance the design eye position was not looked at, or not taken seriously during cockpit design; Your comparison with an S2000 is laughable at best.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

evil_bunnY posted:

I don't understand what's not to like when you have planes that are basically designed from the ground up to climb like hell and shoot bombers.

It's a royal pain in the rear end, in terms of maintenance, security, and logistics, plus, with decent search radar, you're going to know about inbound aircraft early enough that you don't need to panic-launch your interceptors from giant roman candles, in the first place.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Baconroll posted:

Yes it was carrying nuclear depth charges - The Ministry of Defence finally admitted this,

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2003/dec/06/military.freedomofinformation

Almost everyone with a navy worth mentioning was armed with tactical nuclear weapons at that time. It's like being surprised that the Bismarck might have had armor piercing ammunition loaded when she went down.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Slamburger posted:

I built a model Hind as a kid, and I remember when I was putting together the troop transport section something seemed really off in the scale compared to the cockpit and I thought it was just a shoddy model.

Spetsnaz fold up small.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

NightGyr posted:

If I'm a billionaire, I know what I'm getting transported in.

I think I'd rather take the Apache method than cram into a tiny compartment on a Havoc:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/jan/17/afghanistan.military


There is not a helmet or earplug on the planet that is going to prevent you from hearing a ringing for days after that ride...

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Throatwarbler posted:

Is this kind of an American-centric view of the mission of an armed helicopter? I thought the AH-64 was designed for a pretty specific mission - to act as a really fast column of specialized anti-tank platforms (a "tank destroyer", if you will :gb2gbs: )that can be thrown headlong at a Soviet tank thrust into the Fulda Gap. For most countries who aren't planning for such an eventuality it seems like the Mi-24 model might actually be a bit more useful.

The problem with the Mi-24 is that it's performance envelope puts it squarely into the engagement envelope of MANPADs. The US abandoned the AH-56 for the same reason. A big, heavy, fast helicopter sounds like a wonderful idea, until you begin to engage an enemy with a weapon purpose-built to defeat it. The AH-64, and the Mi-28, ascribe to the "Stand way the gently caress off and lob guided missiles at the problem" approach, rather than the "I am a fling-wing IL-2, and wish I were at Stalingrad," approach.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

mlmp08 posted:

Actually, the vast majority of countries are strapping weapons to utility choppers. It's WAY more cost effective and multi-mission capable than a dedicated attack helicopter. If you absolutely positively must have helos that can just murder ground units, built an attack helicopter. If you need helicopters that can switch hit between attack, transport, CSAR, RECCE, and so on, don't spend all your money on attack helicopters. Additionally, if you need unarmed helos, you can disarm utility choppers and use them. You can't very well disarm an Apache and use it for poo poo other than crummy, expensive recon when compared to other platforms.

Cases in point:









There has never been a case of "The USMC is different for being differents sake" bigger than the UH-1Y/AH-1Z program. The entire rest of the fleet uses UH-60 variants, and Boeing already helped the UK rate the AH-64 for sea duty. It's such a hilarious waste of money...

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Diplomaticus posted:

Small nitpick -- when I was in college at FSU (Tallahassee) the forestry service had two de-gunned Cobras. So it sort of depends on the audience.

To be fair, FireCobras only exist because the Army surplused them. Also, the powerplant and transmission/gearboxes are nearly identical to a UH-1, so maintenance costs are minimal, comparatively. The Cobra is a poor example.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

MJP posted:

And a keyboard overlay too. I had Red Storm Rising as a kid, it's what got me into all this crap to begin with. "Wow, this computer game was based off a book? Maybe I should re-"

726 pages in 6th grade later...

Fifth grade. Otherwise completely accurate to describe me, as well. :colbert:

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Mortabis posted:

Flight Sim X was fun when you could get over the astonishingly horrible performance, which if I recall correctly was still bad on my high end computer four or five years after it came out.

FSX should be a graduate-level course in how not to design software.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...


In other news, single-engine powered-lift is still a dumb loving idea.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Warbadger posted:

Another great video from the Middle East thread.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d72_1370178096

T-72 getting hit by what is probably a Konkurs ATGM.

T-72s were originally designed by Roscosmos, in an effort to put tank turrets in space.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Cyrano4747 posted:

When is the last time the US lost an armored vehicle in a non-recoverable location?

WAG: Vietnam.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

iyaayas01 posted:


Are we still posting armor killing weapons? I give you the CBU-97/-105 armed with the BLU-108/B SFW. When you absolutely, positively, have to destroy an entire armored column in one pass:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKdFCsycYm8

"The explosively formed penetrator incorporates a center core for hard target lethality, while the fragmentation ring effectively defeats soft targets, and their ancillary equipment."

You know. The meat. :black101:

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

CBU-97/105 can be delivered by just about anything in the USAF inventory, including F-16s, F-15Es, A-10s, etc etc.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

NightGyr posted:

We're building a plane we don't know how to fly or arm. drat this rushed production thing is messed up.

I don't like the F-35 program much, but this statement is ignorant of how modern combat aircraft are developed. These kinds of trials are completely normal in every way.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

iyaayas01 posted:

And it's worth mentioning that the Raptor can carry the exact same amount of SDBs (8, 2 BRU-61s worth) as the F-35 is going to be able to internally. Except it can do so while supercruising at 50K+ feet. So again, thanks Gates.

Its almost like we decided to cancel the good airplane, and buy the cheaper, inferior substitute, which then ended up being more expensive!

Isn't procurement fun?

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Throatwarbler posted:

What does the super Tucano do that the F35 doesn't?

Loiter.

For CAS and COIN, the ability to be low and slow, and actually look for targets, is a huge advantage. That's why, every time you hear someone say that the F-35 is going to replace the A-10, I encourage you to LAUGH IN THEIR FACES.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Throatwarbler posted:

The F35 has killed pilots?


Well they're not being cross shopped because the F35 is already in the garage, it's not an either/or thing. The Super Tucano would have to be doing something that the F35 can't do......


....is that really true? I thought being a bomber in a benign enviroment was one of the design goals of the F35?

Strike and CAS are not the same thing.

Also, if your mission goal is bomb truck for a permissive environment, then why the hell is the thing (kinda) stealthy? If you have to hang all the ordnance required to accomplish the mission outside the LO portion of the fuselage, thereby loving the RCS, then all the effort you spent making it stealthy is wasted, when performing that mission.

They've managed to build an aircraft that does everything an F-16 will, for six times the cost.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Throatwarbler posted:

Because the plane is already there so why not?

Well, ya, if you have 'em, use 'em, but what mission, exactly, did we need a VTOL/Supersonic/LO/light fighter/light strike/carrier-capable/jet/clusterfuck for in the first place? Why didn't we just buy more F-22s, which are vastly more capable aircraft, and supplement them with more advanced F-16s for permissive-environment bomb-truck duties, and spending the savings on a real replacement naval strike fighter to supplant the Superbugs?

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

This is probably relevant to the gaming discussion, here.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Throatwarbler posted:

We had this discussion before, there's also ADATS which is a laser guided missile that can be both anti air and anti armour.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Defense_Anti-Tank_System

There's also a Swedish system too. Having said that I thought most of these MANPADS aren't really that effective against fighter fighters and are only useful for helicopters and low flying, slow moving stuff.

I'd really love to see exactly what the ADATS warhead is like. Anti-Aircraft warheads are generally some variation on an annular fragmentation warhead, to maximize the area impacted by high-velocity shrapnel, which is bad for airplanes, whereas an antitank weapon uses a glorified shaped-charge to direct a LOT of energy into one spot, to punch through armor.

AT weapons would of course be devastating to aircraft, but I would imagine their PK would be kinda terrible, unless the guidance was spot-on, every time.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Vindolanda posted:

Nazi remnant state Bf109s.

I was going to say A6Ms, but ya, otherwise accurate.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

FrozenVent posted:

Also can that jet skim a lake to fill itself back up?

Lolno.

That would be loving amazing, though.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Nebakenezzer posted:

Dumb question about Nuclear subs: do their power plants use uranium enriched past 20%? If so, would Canada having nuclear submarines be a violation of the nuclear non-proliferation treaty?

Real numbers are of course classified, but most public sources ascribe US submarines using 90%+ pure U235. The S9G in the Virginia class is designed to go thirty+ years between refuelings, and might be in the high ninety percent range.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Munnin The Crab posted:

Going back to sub chat for a minute, a combination of watching Das Boot again and dicking around in Silent Hunter has got me wondering about how quickly modern subs like the Astutes and Virginias move through the water while submerged. Obviously the time for surfaced to submerged is going to be shockingly less than say a TypeVIIc, but once you're actually under the water I've been under the impression that moving up and down the water column has more to do with pumping ballast around than engine power? Is that the case, or can you just angle your diveplanes down and kick the reactor to flank speed and force yourself deeper?

I know the old Alfa's were so famously fast and deep diving that we developed the mk48 and spearfish torpedoes to chase them down, what was it that allowed them to get deeper so quickly?

I may be totally off base on how subs actually work, my total experience with submarines consists of pushing buttons in SH5 and touring the Albacore and the Lionfish.

I don't think there are any solid numbers on it, but I'd be somewhat surprised if a modern nuclear submarine could come anywhere near the crash-dive times of a WWII diesel/electric. Nuclear submarines spend so much of their time already-submerged that a crash dive simply isn't terribly useful, anymore. Also, a Virginia or Astute is much, MUCH larger than any common WWII submarine. Virginias are ~7900 tons, Astutes are ~7400, and a Type VII was ~870. So, huge mass differences probably means unlike dive times.

Also, modern nuclear submarines are generally ballasted to neutral buoyancy, and then "flown" through the water using control surfaces.

The Alfas were extremely special machines. Built with a titanium-alloy pressure hull, and utilizing a liquid-lead bismuth cooled reactor, they were absolute maintenance nightmares, but extremely formidable at sea. (When they weren't broken.) The wiki page is pretty informative.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Rodrigo Diaz posted:

each Astute class comes with a Holtzmann drive and Guild navigator.

Would an English Guild navigator float in a tank full of tea?

THE TEA MUST FLOW

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

mlmp08 posted:

The USAF shot a HARM at US ada in OIF 1.

Not just at ADA... :black101:

http://bentcorner.com/in-harms-way/

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Dead Reckoning posted:

After the latest round of sexual assault scandals, the Air Force had a service-wide inspection and purge (under the umbrella of Morale, Welfare and Health) of any material that could possibly be considered unprofessional or offensive. This included bowdlerizing historic nose art even on pictures of WWII/Vietnam aircraft being displayed in squadrons. You can read the full results here. My personal favorites include "Electro Static Discharge (ESD) Picture (Crude, Offensive) Picture of a drawn penis discharging in Zeus' face" and two dozen Anime figurines confiscated in PACAF.

To answer your question, I'm sure there are unofficial photos floating around, but the Air Force would very much like everyone to forget they existed.

In that list, the confiscated a men's health magazine from a Launch Control Center...

...I no longer regret my decision to stay out of the military.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Mortabis posted:

RNZAF is the only air force in the world with a flightless bird for a logo, and it's quite fitting actually considering that it has no fighters anymore.

The RNZAF: the only flying Kiwis.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

I think the recommissioning of the Iowas was mostly for propaganda purposes, and was hideously expensive for the benefit, but I also don't think they should be underestimated. A surface action group based on an Iowa would have been a hell of thorn in the side of any Soviet surface operations, particularly if shielded by a CVBG. The armor on the Iowas probably would have allowed them to soak up quite a bit of damage, as well, while simultaneously distracting Soviet Naval Aviation from the carriers. The tin cans protecting the BB, probably not so much...

All in all, not defending the idea, but it wasn't completely without merit.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

iyaayas01 posted:

2 weeks? :lol: For PGMs (such as they were) during the Cold War try a little over 2 days. Seriously, the planned expenditure rates were off the charts, and then realize that in every single conflict (even the relatively low end ones like OEF) we have exceeded our planned munitions expenditure rates (particularly for preferred munitions like PGMs) and had to scramble to get more into theater. I'm not saying everything would be out after a couple of days but to use a naval warfare example just a couple of sustained saturation attacks against a CVBG would've left its escorts dangerously low on Standards.


There's some Libyan sailors who found this out the hard way. Still my favorite part of that little conflict. A P-3 firing a Maverick at a ship while A-10s are lighting up some skiffs with their GAU-8s is like something out of that previously mentioned 6 year old kid's imagination...except it really happened.



Want to see that P-3 come back winchester.

e: Including the Sidewinders.

:colbert:

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

LP97S posted:

Also, the Air Force was so pervasive in their hatred of the A-10 they actually did almost get the Army to take them instead. I can't find the link now but there was a move in the 80's to revise the Key West Agreement and have the A-10 included as an Army air asset like the AH-64. Then Desert Storm happened and the plan was scrapped because the Air Force needed the A-10 for certain niches. was loving terrified of the Army putting warrant officers into jets, and making congress question the Air Force's (And Navy, to be fair,) "ALL PILOTS MUST BE OFFICERS AND GENTLEMAN ENLISTED MEN ARE ICKY" line.

Fixed that.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:

Well, I don't either. But it's possible we could see such a conflict sometime during the aircraft's service life, and I'm fine with the military replacing it's aging airframes with new tech. Something like a modern day equivalent to the F-16 would have been great. A capable, flexible plane that doesn't break the bank.

Instead, we got a boondoggle that sounds like a six year old designed it. "It's gonna be stealthy, so no one can see it! And, and it's gonna carry bombs, and lasers, and take off like a helicopter!"

Name me the last time that anyone designed a multirole aircraft that went on to be a huge success. Go ahead, I'll wait here.

...


Back? So soon?

Now, go and look at all of the really, REALLY successful designs of the last 75 years. A-4, F-4, F-16, F-15, hell, the goddamned JU-88. What do they all have in common? They were designed to a very specific mission, and to excel at it. The A-4 was built to carry a pilot and a nuclear bomb, and thats it. Turns out it's a great light attack aircraft, and maneuverable enough to serve as a fighter aggressor aircraft.

The F-4 was a fleet defence interceptor that just happened to be an excellent multi-role strike fighter.

The F-15, same, despite being developed with "Not a pound for air to ground."

The F-16 was developed as a pure daytime air superiority fighter to tangle with MiG-29s. Turns out to be possibly the worlds best light multirole fighter.

But not a single one of these was designed by a committee, and asked to do everything for everyone. Funny how that works, isn't it?

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MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Godholio posted:

The controllers and surveillance team don't need to be on board, realistically. Put them in a trailer, save a poo poo-ton of space, now pick an airframe based on range/loiter capability and the ability to generate enough power to run whatever radar you throw on it.

787.

lolololololololright

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