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xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Randomly saw this on another forum, I think it's relevant:

You know Spirit and Spectre and Lancer and Falcon
Cobra and Corsair and Tomcat and Talon
But do you recall
The most famous airplane of all?

Warthog the ugly airplane,
Had a very shiny nose,
And if you ever saw it,
You would even say it glows

All of the other airplanes
Used to laugh and call him names
They never let poor Warthog
Join in Any Air Force games

Then one sandy Desert Storm
George Bush came to say,
"Warthog with your nose so bright,
Won't you kill some Tanks tonight?"

Then how the public loved him,
As they shouted out "You're Great!"
Warthog, the ugly airplane,
You'll be here till '28!

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xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

DeesGrandpa posted:

My grandpa was in Ireland being a teenager and generally not giving fucks about the second world war.

The other grandpa was in the Merchant Marine academy, and was apparently a great swimmer despite being fat as hell. He got out in 1946 and sailed around the world doing generally cool guy things.

Y'all really have old grandpas.

Hah, I just finished college and both my grandpas were too old to fight in WWII. My paternal grandfather who I never met wasn't going to fight anyway, he'd been in a bus accident that left him bedridden for years to get his legs "healed" to the point where one was bent and two inches shorter than the other. He was in the USO for a while and then worked in the Empire State Building which became relevant when that idiot took his B-25 into the side of it. Even though the elevators were out for a good while and his legs were a total mess, he didn't miss a single day of work because of it.

My maternal granddad was also too old (I don't even know how, there's stereotypes I thought Irish Catholics had to live up to) to be of much use. He signed up for the Marines because he really wanted to be a Marine and when they told him he didn't have to do everything he insisted he do the whole training even though he knew he was going to get stuck behind a desk.

My dad ended up not getting drafted for Vietnam, which had been the reason he abruptly stopped wanting to go into the Navy to try to become an aviator.

I do have an uncle not sure what the generation gap is who went to WWII and apparently he was a hero or something because he got a Silver Star but he managed to avoid anyone knowing how he got it.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

iyaayas01 posted:

I can't remember what's open source so this will be general, but the answer to your question is "a lot." From a sensor standpoint the two aircraft aren't even comparable. Here's a decent article on what NG's proposals were for upgrading the Global Chicken's sensor suite to something closer to the U-2...the proposals basically boiled down to "pay us three quarters of a billion dollars to integrate the sensor suite that already works on the U-2, also that doesn't include actually procuring said sensor suite, so you would have to pull the sensors off of the U-2, where they work, onto our plane, where we can't guarantee they will."

And they wonder why we wanted to shitcan their colossal piece of poo poo.

That's not getting into the fact that it is a maintenance pig. The blue suit maintainers on it can hardly do anything (it's even worse in that respect than the Pred/Reaper), so we're beholden to a bunch of contractors to fix it, and as has been pointed out already it costs more per flight hour (although NG played some numbers games to make it look like the CPFH was down below the U-2 last year). Finally, it (like most other RPAs) is pretty weather sensitive, which is just another strike against it vs the U-2.

It's worth pointing out that everyone in the USAF (all the way up to Hostage at ACC and Welsh at the very top) wanted to keep the U-2 and get rid of both the Block 30 and Block 40 RQ-4s but NG's Congressional delegation put language in the 2014 NDAA explicitly forbidding the USAF from getting rid of it. We don't have enough money to support both the U-2 and RQ-4 sustainment (not to mention all the money we're going to have to spend to try and get it up to the U-2's standard), and since we were legally forbidden from doing anything to NG's piece of poo poo, our hands were kind of tied.

e: I used to be ambivalent on the Global Chicken vs U-2 debate but after talking with a couple of friends who work on it and getting a bit of tangential first hand experience while I was deployed, I can't stand it. That whole thing should rank up there in crookedness with KC-X as far as "people needing to go to jail" over this. NG's just smarter than Boeing about who they're paying off (it's a lot easier to stay in the clear when you get Congress to do your dirty work for you).

It sounds like the best solution is to crash the bloody things and be done with it. Then you don't have to pay to maintain them.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Psion posted:

Harsh, but accurate.

Seriously though the whole 'austere fighter' thing was a joke. I remember a similar reaction to the "bigger, heavier, can't turn for poo poo" fighter development in the 70s for air-to-air, something with like no radar and two Sidewinders? Everyone said "uhhhh no" and eventually the USAF ended up with the F-16, so they got it right for once.

I mean the problem with the idea of "well it's okay if the airframe is disposable, we'll just build 7500 of them" is that you are also considering the pilot just as expendable, and pilot training isn't cheap. I think it stands to reason nobody would like that idea, least of all the volunteersGermans assigned to it.

Still an improvement on the Starfighter. :colbert:

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Pornographic Memory posted:

So do you get credited with a kill if you manage to shoot yourself down?

I'm not sure. Ask Grumman, they've had two test pilots shoot themselves down iirc. (Also the starfighters thing is more to say the Luftwaffe would have really low expectations.)

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Delivery McGee posted:

McD/Boeing doesn't count own goals. The F-15's perfect record is "no losses to ememy fire." One fighter-model F-15 (as opposed to Mudhens, which get shot down relatively often, mostly by AA) was shot down by his wingman accidentally pulling the trigger on a real Sidewinder while play-fighting.

Still not as nuts as the F11F shooting himself down with his own guns.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Oxford Comma posted:

You know, I hear this but I would like to see some empirical evidence stating that shoving a tampon into your buddy's gunshot wound is beneficial. :colbert:

No real man would die with a tampon in him. That's why DADT was a thing, don't you know?

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

iyaayas01 posted:

Glad to see that LockMart's bribes outstanding and completely aboveboard business practices have paid off yet again.

This whole thing makes so much more sense when you think about it as the Starfighter II. It's even got the wing loading to make the analogy work!

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Pimpmust posted:

What's that steel colored little fighter up on the left of the Phantom?

I think it's an F5D.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.


Oh yep, so it is, missed the framing on the cockpit. Surprising, with all the other high performance planes around it.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

The probe on the nose threw me off, honestly. I adore Douglas planes from that period, the Skyhawk is just the coolest thing, and the Skyray and Skylancer aren't far behind.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

I like how they're supposedly being driven from a laptop and yet have aimbot situational awareness which lets them shoot at everyone with a LAW before they get to shoot the drones. Also, any over/under guess on what volume of those things is comprised of reloads for their LAWs by the end? Cause seriously.

I have a feeling that that project died because the drones weren't survivable because they couldn't get the needed situational awareness to kill every threat ever. That video anyway is probably the surest sign the USSR lost the cold war, they have a military-industrial complex too.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

ArchangeI posted:

Everything that is not taken up by the machine gun ammo, the engines strong enough to crash through brick walls or the bulletproof armor. Or the electronics. I'm telling ya, they've got a dimensional pocket in there to cram all this stuff in.

Don't forget the frag grenades or the smoke grenades.

I'm pretty sure if the thing really got made it'd be the world's cutest little Bradley, and only capable of using that stretcher on city streets.

The totally effective Mogadishu special AA was worth watching for though.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

This is when I really wish I had a picture of the joke patch or whatever for the EA-18G Shocker complete with two and one lightning bolts coming off the wings.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

food-rf posted:

Pretty interesting stuff, although not as cool as giant rockets.

Says you. :colbert:

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Is it cool if I use this as a segue into asking about the Millenium Challenge and what all happened in that even if it isn't exactly airpower? What I've heard sounds insane and pretty hilarious, but most of it has been from people talking about it to make a point.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

FrozenVent posted:

I have absolutely no doubt believing that; fuckers throw up a hell of a wake. Which makes you wonder why they care so much about their RCS. (Wakes make really good targets on surface-search radars, it's how commercial vessels spot pleasure crafts)

Didn't the Skjolds throw up a wake with an RCS at the very least comparable in size to a conventionally designed ship of their size's RCS?

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

KingPave posted:

CATOBAR and Nuclear? Really?

Why not go for an actual modern carrier to learn on?

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

If I remember right I've heard the bridge on a destroyer described as the space between the radars from a design perspective. Interference pushes towards the island being a given size.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Wouldn't the avionics and support to make a proper weapons system out of a drone fighter be considerably more expensive and potentially awful than for a manned plane?

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Blistex posted:

/\ It's like watching some manner of mantis gliding in the ocean. Seeing it fly is like watching something otherworldly.


Doling out contracts to Quebec engineering, design, and manufacturing firms is like taking half of your original investment and giving it directly to the mafia.

And then you have to make what they did actually work?

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Snowdens Secret posted:

E: Not counting weird poo poo like the Marine F-86s

Wasn't the FJ-2/3 Fury really weird in that it was a naval version of a significantly enhanced air force version of a naval plane?

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

priznat posted:

It was England's job before then.

And France's. They did a great job of messing up what they ran.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

mlmp08 posted:

Guys, stop just elaborately trolling Cyrano into writing 10,000 words.

How else are we supposed to get content.

Cyrano, could you write a brief summary of the end of colonialism?

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

BIG HEADLINE posted:

"...preferably before next Thursday and not exceeding 15000 words? :v:

Fixed :v:

Failing that, it's been a while since warshipchat, anyone got anything interesting to say about ships, preferably the cool as hell Victorian ones that it isn't as easy to be massively spergy about? I'd love to know about design practices and evolutions of ideas back then and only know the broad strokes.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

SyHopeful posted:

The AIRPOWER/Cold War Thread seems like a great place for Victorian era naval vessel chat

It occasionally becomes very hard to tell the differences between this and the history thread. Sorry. Cold war ships it is!

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

FrozenVent posted:

It's better than HMS Gay Viking.

Which is far better than HMS Cockchafer.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Can't the range be increased by launching from something going high and fast?

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Boeing jets are notorious for a vulnerability to high altitude FOD. Clearly.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

darthbob88 posted:

Or you can read his memoirs. It's fictional, but I also like this story about the time the CIA came up with the best/worst rocket design possible and leaked it to the Soviets. Burning dimethylmercury in FOOF, that's a recipe for a fun Saturday night.

Any two compounds which have earned places on the magical blog Things I Won't Work With do not belong in the same rocket. I'm vaguely disappointed that chlorine triflouride, which resulted in the following glorious citation of Ignition! didn't make an appearance in the design.

”It is, of course, extremely toxic, but that's the least of the problem. It is hypergolic with every known fuel, and so rapidly hypergolic that no ignition delay has ever been measured. It is also hypergolic with such things as cloth, wood, and test engineers, not to mention asbestos, sand, and water-with which it reacts explosively. It can be kept in some of the ordinary structural metals-steel, copper, aluminium, etc.-because of the formation of a thin film of insoluble metal fluoride which protects the bulk of the metal, just as the invisible coat of oxide on aluminium keeps it from burning up in the atmosphere. If, however, this coat is melted or scrubbed off, and has no chance to reform, the operator is confronted with the problem of coping with a metal-fluorine fire. For dealing with this situation, I have always recommended a good pair of running shoes.”

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

How did they manage to make a design that fails to capture the inherent grace and elegant lines of the C-130?

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Cooked Auto posted:

Speaking of which.
http://youtu.be/exuS697hgwc?list=FL35W47koitmR6RRebKNgEHw

Pretty sure it has been posted before but it does feel very related right now.

Was expecting off-label Turkish Everybody Wants To Rule The World from the start.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Pornographic Memory posted:

What's up with naming the submarine after a company and putting their logo on it? Did the Russian Navy sell sponsorship rights on their ships or something?

Wouldn't be that surprised in a world where the USS Carl Vinson is a thing.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Warbadger posted:

I'd think it applies more to the flanker, given that it's a comparatively bigass plane. I'll admit the R-40 on the Mig-25 outperformed the R-27 the flankers were stuck with, though. R-27 was hilarious garbage all the way through the 90s.

What made it so bad?

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Leif. posted:

My previous firm sued Force Protection. It's not the one everyone knows about, the investment class action; ours was a different (labor/civil rights) class action, and there is/was some seriously disturbing 1950's Jim Crow poo poo going on in their factories. No idea if it settled or not; haven't heard anything on the case in a couple of years.

Any idea if there'd be public documentation of that? Now I'm morbidly curious how bad it was.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Bruiser posted:

Going to be building an A7 Corsair model this weekend. I'm really looking forward to it.

Interestingly, the A7 saw carrier service all the way up to 1991 during Desert Shield / Storm aboard the USS John F. Kennedy. The only carrier left with 2 squads of A7's. Not bad for a plane designed in 1962!

Did the corsair's wing do the same pop up trick the crusader's did? Because I love that silliness, especially the pictures of a crusader flying with folded wings popped up.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Bruiser posted:

Yeah, I think you've got the option to build it like that.


10/10 model.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Trying to outsource the second March to the Sea was a bad decision in retrospect.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Scratch Monkey posted:

According to him he was a marine but their stupid rigidity of doctrine and lack of airborne capability made him quit and then join the army. I'm really not making that up.

Wait, then what are those ships that arent carriers and have flat tops for? Or was that later?

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xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Kilonum posted:

I think he means airborne in the "Jump out of perfectly good airplanes into the arms of the enemy" sense

And why is that so central to his belief system anyway that he can't just make do with helicopter assault?

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