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Rinkles
Oct 24, 2010

What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?


Just FYI if you didn't know, Stewie has a hide quest items tweak.

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v1ld
Apr 16, 2012


Didn't know that. Been looking at Stewie Tweaks' code and it's very deep magic, they're patching the code on the fly to do this:

code:
_declspec(naked) void InventoryMenuShouldHideMiscItem()
{
	_asm
	{
		mov ecx, [ebp - 4] // TESForm
		mov eax, [ecx + 8] // form->flags
		and eax, 0x400 // form->flags & kQuestItem
		setne al
		mov esp, ebp
		pop ebp
		ret
	}
}
Which if I'm reading this right sets the lowest 8 bits of a TESForm's flags entry to 0x01 to hide quest items. Why that works, I have no idea - the lower 8 bits is presumably the first 8 entries in this table: https://geckwiki.com/index.php?title=GetFlagsLow - that's almost certainly correct because the code is checking bit 10 in the line before to see if it's a quest item. So why does setting the first 8 bits to 1 hide the entry? :shrug: That's setting what the table calls the ESM bit to 1 and zeroing the other 7 and that somehow works? Cool story. This was a misread - haven't done x86 assembly since college. It's simply setting the return value to 1 if it's a quest item. The location the code is being patched into, see below, presumably chooses not to show the item if 1 is returned.

Which is all to say this is way beyond my knowledge when it comes to modding beth games. Deep magic is being used. So I'm personally not going to go down this particular rabbit hole - which would be to add a function to one of the NVSE plugins that allows hide/unhide on the fly for inventory items.

E: I forgot how the code above is invoked. They're patching that code into the game on the fly and the surrounding code is almost certainly checking those low bits to see if an item should be displayed. The fact that it overlaps with the earlier check of the ESM flag is irrelevant, it's just the return value with 0x01 in the low bits that matters. Here's now it's called, just to take this derail even further:

code:
void patchHideMiscQuestItems()
{
	WriteRelJump(0x78279A, UInt32(g_bDontHideStarCaps ? InventoryMenuShouldHideMiscItemSarsaparilla : InventoryMenuShouldHideMiscItem));
}
All of the stuff in this mod is doing low level tweaks to the game. Modders who get in this deep are wizards and there seem to be quite a few active for FNV.

v1ld fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Sep 12, 2021

Rinkles
Oct 24, 2010

What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?


yeah there's a buttload of talented people still actively involved in NVSE and its extensions, and stuff like TTW. though I guess looking at morrowind, it might be an inevitable trajectory for this kind of RPG darling.

like i never imagined this being possible in NV (yes it's apparently not ready, and might never be ready, but still)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp38KMVPnTo

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012


Yeah, happy I chose now to come back to this game. It def feels like a(nother) Golden Age of FNV modding.

There's also a growing sensibility about going back to the base game's feel, though that might just be Qolore6 pushing it in VNV and also their excellent mods/remasters: build upon what's there, don't just swap everything out. But you get the same feel from a bunch of other talented modders who are either fixing or extending within the feel of the original game. There's also a lot of modders releasing small, standalone mods. Bug fixes get pulled into a few collections, but there are a lot of small gameplay tweak mods instead of large overhauls.

I'm glad to not run any face replacer mods for example, they look great as is in a higher res. Clothing texture upscaling would be nice but going with Spice of Life or whatever starts me down that slippery slope and I've held off this time. Likewise I'm happy to have skipped Vurt's other than as a texture upscaler for flora and landscape. RWL Revised sticks with mostly vanilla-like weathers though it changes the color more than Altitude.

All the core guns and mods feel good to me. EVE or WMX aren't being missed this time through - and WMIM anyways says it doesn't care about compatibility with those mods, it just wants to fix the base game's problems. Gunplay feels great with just jsawyer's tweaks and a few mods that make small isolated changes.

Economy Overhaul is doing a great job. But even there you can see how PTWB completely redid what they had in 2.0 and went back to changes based on vanilla's sensibilities. See the Description here for what seems to have been the template for EO 3.0.

And finally, but the largest, is the large and growing number of NVSE plugins alongside stuff like Stewie's Tweaks which is just injecting code into the game wholesale. E: Meant to say that mods like the True Scopes video above feel much in line with the original game, they're just overcoming/fixing/working around the tech limitations of that older engine by going much further than the Beth modding env allows.

v1ld fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Sep 13, 2021

Rinkles
Oct 24, 2010

What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?


v1ld posted:

There's also a growing sensibility about going back to the base game's feel, though that might just be Qolore6 pushing it in VNV and also their excellent mods/remasters: build upon what's there, don't just swap everything out. But you get the same feel from a bunch of other talented modders who are either fixing or extending within the feel of the original game. There's also a lot of modders releasing small, standalone mods. Bug fixes get pulled into a few collections, but there are a lot of small gameplay tweak mods instead of large overhauls.

I think it's a more general trend that might be indicative of modding in general maturing (in some respects). I've seen a lot of "Vanilla plus" or "V++" pop up when looking at Skyrim mods recently. One of Skyrim's bigger gameplay guys (EnaiSiaion, incidentally somewhat of a dipshit) has spent the last couple of years slimming down his overhauls into lighter versions that "respect the vanilla vision and balance".

v1ld posted:

I'm glad to not run any face replacer mods for example, they look great as is in a higher res. Clothing texture upscaling would be nice but going with Spice of Life or whatever starts me down that slippery slope and I've held off this time. Likewise I'm happy to have skipped Vurt's other than as a texture upscaler for flora and landscape. RWL Revised sticks with mostly vanilla-like weathers though it changes the color more than Altitude.

Yup and forgoing those mods can save soooo much time (just handling compatibilities can be a real headache). Though I've had a chip on my shoulder about texture replacement for a while. They often don't respect the artistry or intent behind the original enough. Also ultra high resolution textures often look crap on low poly assets. It ends up too sharp and flat. There's a natural smudging/smoothing effect of lower res textures that I think might be underappreciating in many of the high res texture projects.

v1ld posted:

Economy Overhaul is doing a great job. But even there you can see how PTWB completely redid what they had in 2.0 and went back to changes based on vanilla's sensibilities. See the Description here for what seems to have been the template for EO 3.0.

Imo the latest version has it's own issues, but Push seems aware. It's the sort of thing you can't get right without some trial and error. (that said, i really don't want to go back to the vanilla economy) e:oh sorry that's the minimalistic version. i've read through it before, but decided to go with the overhaul, so don't have any experience with it.

Rinkles fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Sep 13, 2021

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012


I'd forgotten how bad vanilla is when it comes to iron sights on energy weapons. Spent a mildly depressing half an hour looking at the compatibility mess EVE would make at this point before discovering this neat little mod: Laser Weapon Iron Sights. Doesn't try to change everything and puts nice iron sights on the Laser Rifle and Pistol, though the latter already has them in the vanilla game.

E: Works for Plasma weapons too, but had to disable WRP/WTH. Non-energy weapon textures aren't really important in this run so no big loss.

v1ld fucked around with this message at 07:37 on Sep 13, 2021

Moreau
Jul 26, 2009





Well, I mean... this sure is a face. Think I'll play with vanilla instead

Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006



i love installing what I think is a normal selection of mods and starting a new game only to find perpetually dancing strippers everywhere, then having to go through the mod list one by one to figure out which one slipped that in

they were on the roof of the loving saloon, everywhere

Rinkles
Oct 24, 2010

What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?


Some years ago I had a similar problem with vomiting. Everywhere you’d go NPCs would be vomiting.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012


Rinkles posted:

Some years ago I had a similar problem with vomiting. Everywhere you’d go NPCs would be vomiting.
That was probably EVE.

It had some dumb feature where pulse guns had a chance of hit to make human enemies vomit. But the scripting was broken.
EVE's a great example about how bloat can just turn a mod into utter garbage. If that guy had stuck to making the energy weapon VFXs cooler, it probably would probably still have been a strong recommendation today.

Fair Bear Maiden
Jun 17, 2013


The EVE guy eventually started working in indie game development after repeatedly slagging the people at Bethesda and Obsidian for being incompetent. Kind of amazing in its own right.

Modding is so loving cool, but some modders are real trash.

Jamie Faith
Jan 13, 2020



Fair Bear Maiden posted:

The EVE guy eventually started working in indie game development after repeatedly slagging the people at Bethesda and Obsidian for being incompetent. Kind of amazing in its own right.

Modding is so loving cool, but some modders are real trash.

Yeah I love EVE but that guy is a prick. I remember him going on some weird anti political correctness rant out of no where in the info page of his borderlands damage numbers mod for NV. He later edited most of it out but some of it is still there last time I checked

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012


Fair Bear Maiden posted:

The EVE guy eventually started working in indie game development after repeatedly slagging the people at Bethesda and Obsidian for being incompetent. Kind of amazing in its own right.
That reminded me of a lovely "bugfix" mod for Neverwinters Nights 2.
In the readme for it, the modder listed all the bugs he supposedly fixed and every item in the list had a little "Obsidian is bad" or "Bugsidian" next to it. Meanwhile, none of his fixes actually worked and most of them introduced new bugs.

But yeah, modding attracts a lot of trash. The venn diagram of "Is willing to spend an ungodly amount of time on a videogame mod" and "Is a well-adjusted, sane individual" probably does not have a lot of overlap.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012


Ran the REPCONN test site yesterday - still such a great location and mission. Ride well, you brave valkyries.

The build has started to come together and I'm no longer scrabbling to survive. Had to run from some stuff on the way to Novac - no more!

Vigilant Recycler was a big jump in survivability for this char. Optimized energy ammo means I no longer have to lure Legion back to caravans to hope to survive. Likewise for the increased ammo efficiency. The Drained EC + Fusion Battery recipe alone has solved my immediate ammo/money crisis in crafting optimized variants.

Mobile Truck Base Remastered + Stash Organizer is letting me craft opportunistically from all containers without having to know all the recipes. Great house, fantastic sorting mod. Goes very well with Mojave Travel's motorcycle for short haul fast travel - say back and forth from REPCOMM and Novac.

Finally had the money to kit out a Laser Rifle for dps and a Plasma Pistol for overcoming DT. The Laser Pistol that got me to Novac couldn't even dent that first Legion assassin squad they sent. I consoled them out, it was a futile exercise against DT. Second one was way better after I got the above kit together.

Vulpes and his squad went down first try without me taking a scrath, 3 grenades took out more than half the squad and softened the rest well enough.

I need one more point in Survival to make Cactus Water, my current problem being hydration. It's cool that economy overhaul and jsawyer have me needing points in Survival for well, survival. EO feels very well done. Weapon mods have been careful purchases which in turn led to having to run away from encounters with only a modded Laser Pistol.

The other reason for low damage scrabbling has been that Energy Weapons is a completely neglected skill so far, needed those points elsewhere. Almost at Barter 70 for Pack Rat and the next skill on the list is Energy Weapons. 50 points in it will make a big difference in damage output - about +66% given I'm around 25 right now - so OPness here I come anyway.

Game feels great. Glad I stuck with a vanilla feel. RWL Revised is my favorite weather mod, I gave Altitude and Nevada Skies a decent run. RWL lets me just play while still admiring the odd sunrise, while I'm occasionally still reminded of weather mods and the need to tweak them with the other two.

The setting, writing and characters are still so good. Still my favorite when it comes to how human these NPCs feel and even speak. The post-apocalyptic cowboy western genre needs more such games.

Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X


So, I am bad at computers.

I got a new machine and thought it might be cool to install the VNV suite all the cool kids rave about, right? But, well, and I'm embarrassed to admit this--which is why I'm trying admitting it to you goons before enduring the ridicule I will no doubt receive if I admit it in the VNV or MO2 discords--I can't get the game to launch with mods at all.

I am incompetent, sure, but it's not like I've never done this before. I've been playing modded Skyrim and FNV through MO2 for years just fine.

I can't figure out how the hell to, y'know, run the game with mods. Everything's installed, looks exactly like VNV says it should, but I click Run and it brings me to the regular ol' stock menu (where you're supposed to click Play, remember?) instead of just launching the game with the mods like my old machine always has.

I've dug up every resource I can easily find, FAQs, tutorial videos, and so on. Apparently I am being so astonishingly stupid that whatever I'm overlooking is so kindergarten-level obvious that it never occurred to anyone involved to even mention it.

Does anyone have any guesses as to what it might be?

If the only answer is "nuke everything, uninstall FNV, then start over from scratch" then so be it. Kinda hoping I'm just being stupid here, though, because I don't really want to pour another few hours into starting over when it's likely as not that whatever mistake I made I'll just make again.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012


What are you launching? If you used this https://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/62552 like VNV says, you can just run FalloutNV.exe. Else you'll need use the nvse launcher (nvse_loader.exe). Either way, you need to launch with NVSE.

Click on the green and blue gear icon top left and see what exe is being launched, basically.

Sounds like you're running FalloutNVLauncher.exe which you basically don't need to after the first time.

v1ld fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Sep 14, 2021

Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X


Thanks for asking. Yes, I am launching FalloutNV.exe. After that failed I tried NVSE as well but got the same result. Either way, it still launches the launcher first, and doesn't load any mods.

To be clear, the path is C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\FalloutNV.exe.

I am aware that MO2 (which is installed in its own folder under C:\) doesn't like working with \Program Files but Steam doesn't really give you much choice unless you want to reinstall all of your games, or perhaps if you're far more of an expert than I am. If that's really the problem then I will get the game from GOG next sale and try again, I guess.

Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Sep 15, 2021

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012


Eric the Mauve posted:

I am aware the MO2 (which is installed in its own folder under C:\) doesn't like working with \Program Files but Steam doesn't really give you much choice unless you want to reinstall all of your games, or perhaps if you're far more of an expert than I am. If that's really the problem then I will get the game from GOG next sale and try again, I guess.
In Steam's setting under Downloads, you can manage your "content libraries". You can make a new directory for your steam games outside of Program Files in that menu and move your installed steam games to their. No reinstalling required.
After moving the game's files, you'll likely still have to move any mod files you installed manually.

Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X


Nope, Steam doesn't allow it unless it's on a different drive. "Selected drive already has a Steam library folder. Steam will manage multiple game installs in a single folder for you."

Near as I can tell this translates to "gently caress you."

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012


If you want to fix this once and for all, you can:
- Move your games in Explorer to a different place on the same drive: drag and drop the \Steam\steamapps\common folder somewhere else, preferably a final location for them. For example: C:\Games\SteamGames
- Uninstall Steam - it'll leave your games alone because you moved them away.
- Reinstall Steam to the same drive, but don't let it go under Program Files. Instead, install it at say C:\Games\Steam
- Do what Raygereio said and point the content library at C:\Games\SteamGames or if it continues to say nope, just drag and drop the games in C:\Game\SteamGames under C:\Games\Steam\steamapps\common

Explorer's drag and drop is instant if you're on the same drive, or should be.

Having Steam outside of Program Files will also mean you can forever ignore any advice about running games as Administrator. A huge benefit in itself.

E: You won't lose your saves if you're using Steam cloud saves. But it's possible you could lose some settings in some of your games. Don't do it if you're not comfortable with that or if you're mostly happy with your Steam set up to begin with.

E2: I'm feeling a bit anxious about suggesting the above and leaving you SOL if something goes wrong with all of your games. So don't do it if you're not comfortable with that possible outcome.

v1ld fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Sep 15, 2021

Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X


Thanks, I might do that one of these days. Doesn't seem likely it's the issue here though, Skyrim with all its mods works fine even though it's in Program Files (as does FNV on my other machine with like 6 mods).

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012


Did you run FNV and nvse_loader from inside of MO2 by adding an entry in the gears menu? If you launch them from the folder, bypassing MO2, you won't see the mods.

Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X


Sure did. 100% running through MO2, not from the folder or start menu or any shortcut.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012


Really reaching here: Do the two entries for those two launchers both have Start In pointing to the FNV install folder?

E: and does the MO2 Plugins tab on the right show the esm/esp files for your mods?

v1ld fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Sep 15, 2021

Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X


Yes and yes.



Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012


Move the game’s install folder out of program files.
Don’t bother with any other troubleshooting before you’ve done that.

CFox
Nov 9, 2005


I actually ran into a similar issue using the same mod list, had to manually install xNVSE and choose to start the game with NVSE in MO so give that a shot first.

Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X


v1ld posted:

Did you run FNV and nvse_loader from inside of MO2 by adding an entry in the gears menu? If you launch them from the folder, bypassing MO2, you won't see the mods.

Some experimentation on this, if I manually launch FalloutNV.exe the game fires right up with NVSE (but with no mods of course), but if I run it through MO2 it pauses a second while communicating with Steam and then launches the vanilla launcher instead.

So it must be hosed due to be in C:\Program Files after all, is all I can figure. I'll be hosed if I'm going to mess around with tearing out and reinstalling Steam and all my games. I'll wait for the next sale on GOG and then see if I still feel like starting over on VNV.

Thanks for the (attempted) help!

Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 04:44 on Sep 15, 2021

Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.




Maybe try and run MO2 in admin mode?

Rinkles
Oct 24, 2010

What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?


Eric the Mauve posted:

Nope, Steam doesn't allow it unless it's on a different drive. "Selected drive already has a Steam library folder. Steam will manage multiple game installs in a single folder for you."

Near as I can tell this translates to "gently caress you."

I thought you could change the installation directory, which wouldn't move your old files afair, but new installs would be stored there.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012


Rinkles posted:

I thought you could change the installation directory, which wouldn't move your old files afair, but new installs would be stored there.
You can. But you do need to have another SteamLibrary setup somewhere. And Steam does only allow one "SteamLibrary" per drive. Which seems like an arbitrary restriction. Though something will probably break in terrifying ways and set fire to your computer if Valve were to allow that. It's software:shrug:

Rinkles
Oct 24, 2010

What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?


What I meant is that at one point I had a Steam folder both in Program Files x86 and the root directory of the C: drive (I changed to the latter after I realized my mistake). You're saying it only let me change directories because I also had a Steam directory on another drive? I don't remember, but I probably had an external drive set up for backups.

BurritoJustice
Oct 9, 2012



You can move your steam folder by deleting everything but steam.exe and steamapps, moving the folder, and then running steam.exe. It'll spend some time rebuilding the folder and moving all the registry points. I've done it a bunch of times.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012


That's neat, didn't know Steam would do that kind of self-heal. I've moved the install around a couple times and did it via save the games/uninstall/reinstall each time.


Economy Overhaul continues to impress. I just got to 2000 caps for the first time, very briefly, and I'm level 9, REPCONN HQ (Q-35 Matter Modulator, baby!). Even so I decided not to repair the T-51b armor, 750 caps is too much and I need to see Benny next.

Its biggest and most effective change is lowering the condition of dropped enemy gear. Being able to sell that gear for major bucks was what busted the economy open, I think. A great side effect is that I don't hoover up every single weapon I find, it's just not worth it - which goes well with lower carry weights.

Now that I've gotten Energy Weapons up to 50, the midpoint of the 0.5x to 1.5x damage multiplier, stuff is starting to die quickly again. Having to hold back points to get other skills up for perks is what led to that early survivalist desperation on this run.

Editing that weapon damage multiplier formula to run from say 0.25 - 1.25 or lower may not be a bad idea for a difficulty-oriented mod that requires investment in weapon skills and could be an organic way of deferring power till the end game - so you could then invest elsewhere to compensate early on, like more powerful weapons/ammos, perks, etc.

Ran REPCONN HQ with a low Lockpicks/high Science character for the first time and it's so cool how well the designers worked all that choice into the game.

In general, just in awe all over again at the writing/design in this game. It's the mundane conversations where for example Ike at Boulder City explains the effect of the deathclaws cutting off Quarry junction had on the economy of his little town that stand out. Easily the most believable world and conditions of any game I've played.

It's fun to come back to one of your very favorites after almost a decade and compare it to all the subsequent great games you'd used FNV as a measure of in the first place. Still holds up and then some. You did good, Obs.

Rinkles
Oct 24, 2010

What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?


You don't find that the economy overhaul makes ammo a bit too cheap to buy?

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012


I was buying Bulk EC at the start and that got me a long way, didn't buy much normal ammo. Rushed Vigilant Recycler and its 5x Depleted EC + 1x Fusion Battery = 25x EC recipe combined with 1 of 3 shots returning a Depleted EC is keeping me well in stock right now. Q-35 taking only 1 MFC per shot is going to be a very large bump in ammo efficiency as well.

I generally stayed at or around 600-900 caps free for most of this run so far. I'd get to 1300-1400 and then invest in a weapon mod or similar, which would then drop me right back. Also using vendor repair which even with EO dropping the multiplier down from 2x to 1x base cost is still enough of a caps drain.

My next big upgrade will be to go to a Tri-Beam Laser Rifle plus mods and that will be 3500-4000 caps I would guess? Maybe a bit more.

Beyond that point I don't expect the economy to be a major blocker anymore. But it's not like money is flowing in at a high rate, just less outlay. Though I'll eventually kit companions out with uniques, which will drain a bunch of cash.

E: I appreciate being broke and having to make choices that last for a bit: Quite happy with the base Laser Rifle fully modded and scoped. With Optimized MFC it does enough damage it'll last me till Level 11 or so by when I'll have Energy Weapons at 75 and can start looking for a Tri-Beam.

Choice and consequence in plot and character building is obvs very important, but there also needs to be choice and consequence in gameplay. A badly designed economy/loot/drops system can blow that out quite easily, no weight of choice to any item anymore.

v1ld fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Sep 16, 2021

ThaumPenguin
Oct 9, 2013



Out of curiosity, how much side content do people here tend to in the southern half of the map before they get to Vegas? This is assuming you're taking the long route. Do you check out Searchlight? Go to Forlorn Hope? Do you clear out everything, or maybe just do the bare minimum while speeding to the Strip at level 4?

In the past I've had a tendency to clear out as much as possible, but I think it might be detrimental for my game experience as I always show up in Freeside overleveled, utterly stacked with cash, and somewhat exhausted.

Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X


I always want to murder Vulpes the first time I meet him and I'm not very good at Fallout, so I usually end up running around overleveling/overgearing until I'm ready to go to Nipton and murder me some legionnaires.

Semirelated, it's also hard for me to resist the siren song of powerleveling Lockpick and Guns to beeline to Gobi ASAP.

Cavauro
Jan 9, 2008




i usually just go up the 188 and into freeside pretty quickly so i can get a couple followers

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ThaumPenguin
Oct 9, 2013



I'd love to skip Boone entirely one of these days. One of my biggest and dumbest brainworms is that I've wanted to finish his companion story at a point where his new default armor still has a sufficient DT to protect against most threats, preferably at an early level and before I've even got the Mark of Caesar. It's a horrible playstyle and you shouldn't do it.

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