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dissss
Nov 10, 2007

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nodm posted:

Which didn't amount to a whole lot in the grand scheme of things, since they didn't really have the brand recognition to command a high selling price or enough fabbing capacity to grab a large market share. I think they owned something like 22% of the consumer market while their cpu's were murdering the competition.

I wonder what their share is now? We're seeing a huge number of E-350 laptops (not just netbooks) - sure perhaps it's ill advised as far as long term reputation goes but at the low end of the market people very much buy on price and AMD is considerably undercutting even the low end Pentiums.

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dissss
Nov 10, 2007

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trandorian posted:

IE6 was the most standards compliant browser when it was released, that's a fact and your Microsoft bashing doesn't change that.

I'd have said KHTML was more standard compliant at that point, but you're right back then everything sucked.

dissss
Nov 10, 2007

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With the current generation of games I think you're going to have to face the fact it's dGPU (and a fast CPU) or bust.

dissss
Nov 10, 2007

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Flipperwaldt posted:

It does? I'm seeing "Intel® HD Graphics" everywhere, which isn't the same thing, as far as I understand.

Yeah its the most basic Haswell version which IIRC is about equivalent to an HD3000 - definitely needs pairing with a proper GPU

dissss
Nov 10, 2007

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LethalGeek posted:

Also nothing but bad times with Intel video anything. Like my work machine randomly blanks out and it's a known issue Intel can't figure out. Screw that

Ha what?

dissss
Nov 10, 2007

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LethalGeek posted:

It's comical as hell. The video completely disconnects, the monitor comes back a moment later and gives me the input overlay as if I just connected something. Sometimes several times back to back. Along with other just not having a good time with their video drivers ever Nah I'll pass on their stuff video wise.

There are a bunch of different issues being discussed in that thread, none of what you'd call common - remember there are hundreds of millions of systems with only Intel integrated.

I'm sure if you visit the AMD support pages you'll run into a bunch of issues too.

dissss
Nov 10, 2007

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FaustianQ posted:

Oh jesus loving christ, I'd kill to replace my HP 8460p with an ASUS X555D. Why would you think people would not want to buy these?

Because it's a garbage-tier plastic model that still isn't really up to gaming.

It'd be a huge shock going from your EliteBook down to something like that.

dissss
Nov 10, 2007

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FaustianQ posted:

I highly doubt the 6470M I'm saddled with is competitive at all with an R7 APU. It can barely run things like CSS fluently, the i5 does jack poo poo for me.

It should be more then enough for web browsing.

dissss
Nov 10, 2007

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FaustianQ posted:

As would the R7 and Carizzo, yet I sure as gently caress can't play games on my HP while the Carizzo will breeze through it. How hard is to understand that? Your argument is nonsensical, due to GPU limitations I'll never do anything on my laptop that makes the i5 useful.

Depends on the games I guess - it certainly isn't going to breeze through anything relatively modern.

Anyway my comment was more directed at the rest of the system - going from any fairly high end system to a very entry level chassis is going to be painful.

dissss
Nov 10, 2007

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Paul MaudDib posted:

Yeah, they actually have said that they're "logical processors" or "logical cores".

http://cache-www.intel.com/cd/00/00/01/77/17705_htt_user_guide.pdf

Each Bulldozer processor/core also has its own processor state.

The difference is Intel never marketed desktop i7s as 8-core processors

dissss
Nov 10, 2007

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Every desktop PC in my office is a USDT HP between 1 and 5 years old and they all use SODIMMs

dissss
Nov 10, 2007

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Bear in mind Passmark is pretty much perfect for that CPU - things are going to play out very differently for most actual usage.

dissss
Nov 10, 2007

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fishmech posted:

There is exactly one Windows version still in its mainstream support period (the period where they do more than just critical patches) by the time the announcement takes effect, and that's 8.1, and 8.1 is already in a weird curtailed place for support. In effect, absolutely nothing will change.

They're not committing to continue with critical security patches either - that is the problem.

dissss
Nov 10, 2007

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That 'if' qualifier is important.

dissss
Nov 10, 2007

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Regardless Microsoft is giving themselves an out

dissss
Nov 10, 2007

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fishmech posted:

It's the same out they've had since forever. Nothing's changing.

It isn't though - this is the first time they've said something like this.

dissss
Nov 10, 2007

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No one gives a drat about mainstream support (or Windows 8.1 for that matter), the important bit is extended support end for Windows 7 which has essentially been pushed back two years for new hardware.

This is not the usual 'basic cover-your-rear end lawyertalk' at all - it is an attempt to get more corporate customers onto 10

dissss
Nov 10, 2007

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fishmech posted:

Mainstream support is already over, it's already on critical security patches only, and they already avoid releasing patches that only work on certain CPUs and not others.

They haven't explicitly said this before.

dissss
Nov 10, 2007

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If nothing has changed then what exactly does the last bullet point mean?

quote:

  • Windows 7 will continue to be supported for security, reliability, and compatibility through January 14, 2020 on previous generation silicon. Windows 8.1 will receive the same support through January 10, 2023. This includes most of the devices available for purchase today by consumers or enterprises.
  • Going forward, as new silicon generations are introduced, they will require the latest Windows platform at that time for support. This enables us to focus on deep integration between Windows and the silicon, while maintaining maximum reliability and compatibility with previous generations of platform and silicon. For example, Windows 10 will be the only supported Windows platform on Intel’s upcoming “Kaby Lake” silicon, Qualcomm’s upcoming “8996” silicon, and AMD’s upcoming “Bristol Ridge” silicon.
  • Through July 17, 2017, Skylake devices on the supported list will also be supported with Windows 7 and 8.1. During the 18-month support period, these systems should be upgraded to Windows 10 to continue receiving support after the period ends. After July 2017, the most critical Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 security updates will be addressed for these configurations, and will be released if the update does not risk the reliability or compatibility of the Windows 7/8.1 platform on other devices.

If it means nothing (as you say) then why include it?

dissss
Nov 10, 2007

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Sir Unimaginative posted:

It means that even if a security patch is desperately needed, if making it work on Skylake/HBM makes it not work on older chips, it's going to be made for the older chips and in Microsoft's collective mind you deserve what you get for not pushing your Skylake/HBM box to 10 already.

Exactly, this is a new thing not business as usual as fishmech suggested

dissss
Nov 10, 2007

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fishmech posted:

This is not a new thing. They've never ever guaranteed patches will work on all generations of CPUs! Why aren't you getting this? All they've done is made explicit a policy they already had.


It's you that isn't getting it.

dissss
Nov 10, 2007

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fishmech posted:

Show where they ever in the past declared they would support all CPUs released until the extended support period ends then.

Show me where they've ever said otherwise

Fact is Microsoft said you should move off 7 early if you're on a Skylake system

dissss
Nov 10, 2007

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People don't buy those gently caress off top of the range processors in spite of them being expensive, they buy them because they're expensive.

High end stuff isn't rational and value for money is unimportant compared to exclusivity.

dissss
Nov 10, 2007

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Interestingly Steam seems to be reporting my 4K screen as 4K now, I'm sure it used to report the scaled resolution (so @150% that was 2560x1440)

dissss
Nov 10, 2007

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They said MacBook, not MacBook Pro so Core-M

dissss
Nov 10, 2007

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Truga posted:

AMD is absolutely better for basic media consumption and browsing or whatnot at same price points.

The problem is, the kind of laptop OEMs put AMDs in will fall apart after 6-12 months.

e;fb

Why? I've never run into any media or browsing situation where even an HD4000 became a problem and battery life is so poor on current AMD models that it isn't worth the tradeoff.

Also HP does a full line of corporate models with AMD CPUs (the ProBooks and EliteBooks ending in 5). I'm not sure anyone ever bought one though because why would you?

dissss
Nov 10, 2007

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That is hitting the CPU hard on my ancient dual core i7 but performance is fine.

I'm not sure a current AMD APU would deal with it any better given how weak the CPU side is.

dissss
Nov 10, 2007

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Truga posted:

That's exactly the problem. poo poo battery isn't a function of amd or intel, it's a function of poo poo or good battery. My 2008 c2d vaio still lasts >5 hours on the battery I got on day 1, and it used to last 9, despite being a 25W chip. My current laptop has an dual core i7 that's 15W, and that's with a far more powerful igpu included so it saves a bunch there too, and it's still only 12h if I stretch it a bit. A decent battery absolutely makes all the difference. The issue is all AMD laptops are shitshows around the APU.

It kinda is though, the HP Elitebook 725 (AMD) is the same thing about an 820 (Intel) aside from the CPU and gets far, far worse battery life

Truga posted:

Anyway, with an AMD APU, you could probably even do some light gaming pretty well, since they perform way better at normal resolutions than non-iris intel ones afaik. And I'd say simple games pretty much fit into "media and browsing" these days, what with html5.

The thing is I haven't run into an HTML5 games that won't work fine even on slow integrated.

dissss
Nov 10, 2007

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Twerk from Home posted:

This has always been the norm though. Remember when the Q6600 G0 stepping overclocked massively better than the B3? Remember when the Phenom II 965 launched at 140W TDP, and then shortly after another stepping that had a 125W TDP followed? And then it turned out that the 1st phenom II stepping didn't even support quad channel DDR3 at sane speeds? I remember.

Overclocking ability is a different thing entirely - you'd at least expect similar performance at standard settings.

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dissss
Nov 10, 2007

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If it's as easy as that then AMDs decision to launch in that state is even more baffling to me

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