AMD CPU and Platform Discussion: Ryzen Might Be...Good? *knocks on wood*

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > AMD CPU and Platform Discussion: Ryzen Might Be...Good? *knocks on wood*

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Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

Also a future Cataylst driver release will improve frame pacing in dual graphics mode, so if you outgrow the performance of your APU you may be able to add an R7 250 and get a significant boost for less than $100.

# ¿ Jan 30, 2014 04:24

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# ¿ Jan 22, 2025 10:06

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

According to "sources", AMD is dropping the FX-9590. Seems they are throwing everything they have into their HSA strategy.

# ¿ Apr 1, 2014 20:18

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

Probably not. AMD is focusing on APUs, and the inclusion of both CPU and GPU functionality in an APU means they have passed over processes which are only optimal for one type of functionality.

# ¿ Apr 20, 2014 01:35

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

The performance gains can be impressive,

the problem is your app has to be modified to take advantage of HSA. AMD has a long road ahead of them to convince developers to do so.

# ¿ Apr 20, 2014 14:18

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

AMD made some press today.

They announced Project Skybridge, a single socket for which they will make both ARM and x86 Processors.

They are developing a 64-bit ARM core, called K12.

They are also developing a new x86 core which is "a new design built from the ground up". Rumor has it that for this new core AMD is giving up on the CMT design used in Bulldozer/Piledriver/Steamroller/Excavator and will instead go back to something more like what Intel has been using.

Rastor fucked around with this message at 19:25 on May 5, 2014

# ¿ May 5, 2014 19:22

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

This is AMD basically admitting that the whole CMT architecture idea was a bad idea and planning a comeback attempt for 2016. So yes, they are targeting the "high end" CPU market (along with the other CPU markets), but we won't see silicon until 2016, and there are many challenges on the way.

We're pulling for you AMD, you crazy underdogs.

# ¿ May 20, 2014 11:36

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

We won't know until it's out but Carrizo is expected to be a mild bump (Steamroller -> Excavator), not anything that makes AMD competitive again on the high end.

There are rumors that AMD is going to drop the "heavy equipment" architecture (Bulldozer/Piledriver/Steamroller/Excavator) which they began in 2011. Instead, in 2012 they got back Jim Keller (you may remember the success of the original Athlon) and the rumor is that they are going to unleash him to create a new Intel-competitive architecture. Of course there were high hopes for Bulldozer and we all know how that worked out. And AMD no longer owns their own chip fabrication equipment like Intel does. But AMD fanboys should pin their hopes on 2016 (probably late 2016), not any chips coming out before then.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2014 14:09

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

Rastor posted:

We won't know until it's out but Carrizo is expected to be a mild bump (Steamroller -> Excavator), not anything that makes AMD competitive again on the high end.

Interesting rumors of an AMD "project Fastforward" which seems aimed at reducing memory bottlenecks. Could this mean your RAM would be bundled on the package with the APU?

Edit: or is it more like it would be on the motherboard or otherwise placed near the processor?

Rastor fucked around with this message at 11:56 on Jul 22, 2014

# ¿ Jul 22, 2014 11:54

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

orange juche posted:

Murder the earth, scorch the planet, piss on the ashes

It's OK, we're already hosed.

# ¿ Aug 11, 2014 19:27

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

AMD was definitely stabbed by Intel, but they also stumbled with their choice to go with a CMT architecture which is weak on a per-core basis. Unfortunately an architecture decision such as that lasts for years; Intel's NetBurst was [on the desktop] from Willamette (late 2000) until Conroe (2006).

AMD CMT / Bulldozer is expected to be replaced by a new, non-CMT architecture -- but not until 2016. Until then, Intel gets to do what they want without any significant competition. And even if AMD comes up with a competitive architecture, Intel is expected to maintain significant foundry advantages.

# ¿ Aug 19, 2014 00:22

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

Pretty sure AMD is talking about making 2 chips, not one chip that does both instruction sets.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2014 02:50

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

Well it's fine as long as it's two separate design teams. The guy spoke awkwardly in that quote, listing the chips and then listing the chip designers, but I suspect there is a 1:1 designer:chip setup over there. He was just trying to drum up some excitement, while at the same time trying not to trigger the Osborne effect. AMD still has to try to sell their 2015 products before beginning the full push for Zen / K12.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2014 03:22

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

It's not about the stock coolers so much as the free games / other promos, which are not bundled when you buy chips by the tray.

# ¿ Sep 15, 2014 18:29

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

Technically that isn't a TSMC announcement, it's an Italian rumor. I also saw the one that said they will use Samsung's fabs.

Whichever fab they end up choosing, the one thing the various rumor mills agree on is we're not seeing a new architecture until 2016, and not early in the year either.

# ¿ Oct 6, 2014 11:53

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

Twerk from Home posted:

They have enough revenue to continue their existence as a company from the console deal, but they're going to have a hell of a hard time trying to claw their way back into the server market with their next generation uarch.

I don't see them breaking back into the consumer PC market anytime soon, and that's a shrinking market at this point anyway. Intel's getting involved in a race to the bottom with Haswell Celerons and Atoms in the chromebook / tablet market. I'd expect all of AMD's focus on getting Opterons that can undercut Intel's multi-socket Xeons and somehow clawing their way back into servers. The problem is that will take a new architecture that's far more power efficient than their current one.

Hmm. An architecture that's far more power efficient than their current one. You mean like ARM?

# ¿ Oct 6, 2014 14:48

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

POWER architecture has been around for some time and claims to be gearing up to face down Intel from the high end, while ARM continues to challenge on the low end and even MIPS making some noise as they are expecting to be supported in the next Android release.

Will they be successful? Hopefully at least enough that it benefits consumers.

# ¿ Oct 10, 2014 02:23

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

AMD just announced earnings. Profits down 65%, they are going to lay off 7% of staff (about 700 people).

# ¿ Oct 17, 2014 15:48

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

For those who are friends with idiots bragging about an AMD APU purchase, those just got price cuts.

# ¿ Oct 22, 2014 16:43

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

No Gravitas posted:

Sounds a lot like hyper-threading on CPU scale to me.

EDIT: Maybe it is like dynamic vectorization/recompilation and GPU offloading? Hello, Transmeta.

Here is the Tom's Hardware writeup, FWIW.

# ¿ Nov 4, 2014 21:29

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

I am not a book posted:

Thank you!

Also, I never realized how close to the bone the "goons are spergs" thing really cut until now. Jesus Christ people the OP of both this and the hardware picking threads say "Buy Intel", how much does Andy Bryant pay you all to suck his dick if I can't get a god damned recommendation for AMD when I specifically ask for it?

In their defense the thread does regularly get an AMD fanboy from the days when AMD was performance champion who is asking for an AMD recommendation on the assumption that their price / performance is still close to Intel. For those people the recommendation to just buy Intel is good advice.

If you had included a single sentence explaining why you were requesting AMD specifically, you might have gotten the response you wanted.

# ¿ Dec 30, 2014 03:59

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

I am not a book posted:

If I wanted to justify myself to goons more than I had to, I'd post in E/N. OP hasn't been updated in years, and the fact that fanboys exist doesn't mean that everyone who wants to buy AMD is a 1337 haxxor.

You are being an rear end in a top hat to the people you came to for advice. If that's your usual strategy, you are without doubt an ignorant oval office. There are much better ways to get what you want, to say nothing about being a member of human society.

# ¿ Dec 30, 2014 13:21

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

The new APU for 2015 is codenamed "Carrizo" and AMD has no plans to offer it as a socketed chip. So, it sounds like Socket FM2+ is dead and AMD has 100% ceded the desktop market to Intel.

# ¿ Jan 11, 2015 00:29

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

Today it was revealed that three of AMD's executives have left the company.

# ¿ Jan 13, 2015 01:57

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

Hmm, I think WCCFT is making a super gigantic leap there from the actual quote ("enterprise, embedded and semi-custom ... server ... x86 and ARM-based leadership products") to "high-performance" / "enthusiast" parts. AMD has repeatedly been saying lately that they see their opportunities as being in the performance/watt category and I would expect any goals of "leadership products" to be in that category, not the "benchmark king" category.

# ¿ Jan 23, 2015 15:17

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

blowfish posted:

"up to 8 cores" - if they go in a consumer craptop, will most software be able to make use of that computing power, or will we see processors good for very specific circumstances but bad for general purpose laptops?

A 95W TDP part is for desktops and servers, not laptops.

Zen is still 18 months away assuming it launches on time, we don't know what laptop-wattage variations, if any, will be made available, and/or how they will/won't perform.

# ¿ Jan 27, 2015 20:25

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

Ah yeah, Zen is very different from Carrizo. Then there's also Godavari.

# ¿ Jan 27, 2015 21:48

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

El Scotch posted:

I need someone to throw me a bone on something I've been wondering; what's the point of these fancy onboard graphics they're putting in desktop processors? I understand why you'd want a combined unit for either mobile or basic office/consumer systems where people don't need much graphics power, but I don't understand the point when 99.9% of said chips will be paired with a separate gpu.

A) You are way, way, way overestimating what percentage of computers have a dedicated GPU.

B) AMD is making a long-term bet that HSA will be actually used to make your spreadsheets faster and your games fancier.

# ¿ Feb 6, 2015 21:52

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

WCCFtech claims to have had "the chance to talk to a guy high up in the AMD supply chain", which they split into four parts:

Part 1: About AMD sticking with 28nm. "Nolan APU is on the 28nm process ... it will only be a �mild� update to the Beema/Mullins platform and be FP4 BGA packaged"

Part 2: "AMD actually had a desktop Carrizo planned, something that was later canceled ... they decided to reiterate Kaveri with a refresh named Godavari. If they do decide to go forward with a Carrizo Desktop, it won�t arrive till H1 2016"

Part 3: "Zen will be AMD�s focus for the duration of 2016 ... AMD will be releasing Zen for the server side first, then workstations and then HEDT (mainstream market)"

Part 4: "[Intel] Skylake has something brand new � Intel keeping an above top secret attitude even after NDA ... Our source stated that he is fairly certain AMD knows about this �new� feature and will try to incorporate it into Zen"

And bonus WCCFT crap, just in case four helpings wasn't enough:

Carrizo presentation leaked: "The die is still based on a 28nm node yet AMD has managed to optimize the overall chip design by adding 29% more transistors than Kaveri thanks to the high-density design library. This results in a 3.1 Billion transistor die that delivers 40% lesser power consumption and 23% lesser die area than its predecessor. The H.265 encode support allows 3.5 times transcode performance of Kaveri while the compute architecture enables the 8 GCN compute units (512 stream processors) a reduction of 20% in power consumption."

# ¿ Feb 23, 2015 15:53

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

Man, WCCFTech is known for posting some really stupid rumors but the rumor that Samsung is planning to acquire AMD may be the stupidest one yet.

# ¿ Mar 25, 2015 18:23

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

I suspect that at most there is some kind of deal being worked on, maybe for Samsung to do some fabbing for AMD, and the rumor mill then blew it up into Samsung is buying AMD!!!!

# ¿ Mar 26, 2015 12:03

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

I think the key here is the definition of "occasionally gets used for light gaming". If "light gaming" means Solitaire and Candy Crush, then an Intel chip may be a good choice. For 3D gaming the AMD chip may be preferable (though as others said, Intel has made huge strides with their integrated graphics).

# ¿ Mar 26, 2015 19:07

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

I think it's ok to get an AMD for a momputer. I know my Mom likes hers. :shrug:

# ¿ Mar 27, 2015 12:34

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

Professor Science posted:

uh that is not how thread priority works, these aren't realtime OSes, a high priority thread does not prevent a low priority thread from running forever

Ah, memories of Classic Mac OS back in the 1990s...

# ¿ Apr 3, 2015 11:34

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

Angry Fish posted:

So what is this that I'm hearing about the new mobile platform actually being good?

I keep seeing AMD APUs on sub-$600 plastic laptops with 15" or 17" screens. Is this what we're talking about? I thought the APUs were still sub-Core2Duo performance in single threads?

I think the thread title has been the same for a while; I for one don't remember what mobile platform is being referred to there. As you've observed, AMD is currently competing on a value basis, not on a performance/enthusiast basis.

teagone posted:

I wish Google and AMD would mingle and make Chromebooks together.

That might be interesting for sure, although these days Chromebooks are driving down to prices even AMD doesn't want to sink to.

# ¿ Apr 8, 2015 03:14

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

Angry Fish posted:

Really? If you ask the reddits they all claim that AMD is the value-for-performance king of the hill when it comes to builds below $600, and even then you still have one or two builds using a 8350 bottlenecking two 290Xs in crossfire with 32GBs of 1866. People are still buying the components.

Angry Fish posted:

Did some reading. Holy poo poo. But how does this apply to consumer products? A 16 core chip with that much cache and memory on board would be priced in the thousands per unit, right?

An 8350 with 32GBs of 1866 is a bad build. Any AMD performance/enthusiast build is a bad build.

16-core Zen is aimed at servers. We don't know yet what configurations AMD might offer for the home user.

quote:

The first post definitely needs an update.

Our usual response is "so make a new thread and we'll move over there." :cheers:

# ¿ Apr 8, 2015 14:35

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

Twerk from Home posted:

The whole problem is battery life. Intel has just pulled massively far ahead on battery life and it's getting worse. It's not the OS that gives chromebooks really good battery life, it's the CPUs, whether they are Intel or ARM.

Intel has a huge process advantage. With that said, AMD claims that battery life was a major focus for Carrizo. We haven't heard about any Carrizo design wins yet, but it can be assumed some will be announced soon (HP 255 G4 seems almost-official, for example), so we'll see what the results are when those come out.

# ¿ Apr 8, 2015 15:35

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

Fanboys who won't change their stance no matter what you tell them? In my Reddit?

# ¿ Apr 8, 2015 16:36

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

Angry Fish posted:

ARM cores are getting more and more efficient. Maybe there will come a time when ARM designs beat x86-64's in performance-per-watt?

AMD is working on an ARM design, K12, but it probably won't be out much before Zen. All their eggs are in 2016 baskets.

# ¿ Apr 17, 2015 16:49

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

SwissArmyDruid posted:

I feel you and I have different interpretations of this article.

My reading from this article is that the 16 core chip that we were talking about a few pages back that we thought was a server part is, in fact, a flagship desktop part, and that a separate 32 core server chip will be the flagship for servers. Do you concur?

GrizzlyCow posted:

Nope. The writer of the article doesn't know whether the 16-core ZEN processor will be a desktop processor nor does he says it will. I think he may have accidentally implied otherwise. Poor wording on his part.

I could definitely see a 8-core ZEN SKU for the desktop, but 16-cores with all those features and whatnot would probably be prohibitively expensive even when compared to Intel's current i7 Extreme line.

My interpretation of the leaks / articles so far:

There will be two versions of the first Zen chips. One will have 16 CPU cores and an integrated GPU. Another will have 32 CPU cores and no GPU cores. Both will be intended for servers / HPC environments. Possibly the 16 core + GPU part will be made available to the enthusiast market as a high-end Haswell-E type part.

Additional Zen parts with less than 16 CPU cores will follow these initial releases.

# ¿ Apr 23, 2015 01:24

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# ¿ Jan 22, 2025 10:06

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

Who wants some Zen rumors and leaked slides?

http://wccftech.com/amd-zen-cpu-core-block/

Here we see the block layout of a Zen core. Again we have confirmation that sharing of floating point units will be dropped, which should mean higher performance per core. Also note the two FMAC 256-bit units -- possibility they are able to fuse together to process 512-bit AVX floating point instructions?

http://wccftech.com/amd-zen-x86-quad-core-unit-block-diagram/

And here is a block diagram of a �Zen based Quad Core Unit�. According to the rumors this is the �basic building block of Zen�. Combine two of these ~~with a Greenland GPU~~ (Edit: no GPU? See next post) and you have the 8-core Zen chip. Or by using Multi Chip Module designs with 8 cores in each die you can produce huge 16-core and 32-core processors for server use.

Rastor fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Apr 29, 2015

# ¿ Apr 28, 2015 21:03

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > AMD CPU and Platform Discussion: Ryzen Might Be...Good? *knocks on wood*

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