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punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

So what does everybody think of this episode?

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punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

Why do so many people in this thread hate Bill Maher?

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

I can't tell if Ann was being serious or just trolling or both.

Also I did some slight research on here (since I've hardly heard of her before, and some of the poo poo she says is unbelievable.

"In 1960, whites were 90 percent of the country. The Census Bureau recently estimated that whites already account for less than two-thirds of the population and will be a minority by 2050. Other estimates put that day much sooner. One may assume the new majority will not be such compassionate overlords as the white majority has been. If this sort of drastic change were legally imposed on any group other than white Americans, it would be called genocide. Yet whites are called racists merely for mentioning the fact that current immigration law is intentionally designed to reduce their percentage in the population."

I mean what the gently caress? Should I get mad at this? Laugh at this? Face palm this?

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

This is easily the worst episode I have seen so far.

poo poo panel.

Terrible questions.

Schoolyard taunting.

Pen Jilette saved the day.

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

az posted:

Penn still is a terrible libertarian tool, bad episode.

edit: John Fund is so goddamn dumb and crazy.

Penn was very entertaining and charismatic. That is why I liked him.

Fund was horrific. I cannot believe how horrendous Maher and that "leftist" guy in the middle were at arguing.

Reagan needed to ring up the debt because he knew he was going to succeed in stopping the Cold War and he did. Thats also the reason why we are doing so today to end the war on terror.

Really? I mean REALLY? Nobody could shut him up with something against that?

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

pkd88 posted:

Bill's honesty about libertarianism was very interesting. I guess he is not one...

I thought it was obvious that Bill is center left.

simonmoon posted:

He's socially liberal, but fiscally conservative.

Yes, that means he is a libertarian.

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

pkd88 posted:

I do not mean what he appears to be on the show. I might have been wrong but I was under the impression that Bill was still calling himself a libertarian but had no choice but to fight against the republicans - therefor he is left of what the current government is - which is confusing...

I got the feeling that with this show, he was sort of calling libertarianism a position for the immature and perhaps selfish thinkers. Did anyone else get a different thought from what he was saying.

To me, it seemed like Bill just didn't/doesn't like defining himself. Even when it comes to religion he doesn't call himself an atheist but a "rationalist" or "I don't know!". It seems like when asked the question he didn't want to be labeled in one of the two camps so he used something he felt was inbetween just for the hell of it.

In other words, I imagine he more or less said, "I don't really think or care about my political ideology. I just said libertarian for the hell of it."

pkd88 posted:

Libertarianism is conservatism because it is the opposite of liberalism? or is liberalism now different from progressiveness...

In today's political climate its very difficult to define many things. But in general a libertarian is someone who wants social freedoms (would agree on liberals on gay rights) and economic freedoms (would agree with conservatives on the economic side of things). So fiscal conservative but socially liberal.

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

I really don't understand the Maher hate. I would understand if he was as smarmy and full of it as say Hitchens, but Hitches he is not.

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

SpaceMost posted:

Hitchens is an extremely well-educated and well-spoken academic, which is why I forgive his smarminess. Bill Maher is a comedian and a talk show host.

I mean, I really love Maher but even I think he goes too far sometimes.

I agree but its too far and inbetween. People act like it occurs in every episode.

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

AltronHGX posted:

Hitchens agreed to get water-boarded to test his pro-torture views. That's pretty god drat respectable.

And lasted only ten seconds or so...

I see it more as "don't talk crap and deny the victim's claims without knowing the actual damage."

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

AltronHGX posted:

I don't think it was even 10 seconds. I don't think anyone without extensive military training would last longer than he did, really. I remember reading a long post from some dude who waterboarded himself (lol) and the line that really stuck out to me was him explicitly saying he would have sacrificed his wife, his kids, everything he possibly could to get himself out of it.

I don't really have an opinion on it and don't mean in any way to derail this into a torture discussion, I just think that was a bold and respectable move for someone to make to help support their position.

What I'm trying to say is that I lack respect for him because he still made all those claims like "its nothing like drowning" or "its not that uncomfortable", but once he got so much heat that he finally decided to try it out himself to test his theory. And then its "OMG I was wrong!".

I mean I accept that it was respectable that he decided to bite the bullet and test his theory, but I don't respect him for making all of those claim without taking the victims seriously.

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

AltronHGX posted:

This is where we disagree. I think that in any subject- torture, mp3 player, ice cream- he had an opinion on something, tried it, and as a result of what he experienced he changed his mind. That's the way things are supposed to work, isn't it?

I do get what you're saying though, you are taking issue with how much of a dick he was about his uninformed opinion pre-water boarding. I can get that, but IMO all that should be forgiven since he, unlike literally every other supporter of waterboard, allowed it to be done to himself and went "wow nevermind, I was proven wrong"

Honestly I still disagree but I don't really feel like it or see a point in arguing. I assume we both feel that it isn't that big of a deal.

pkd88 posted:

Do you mean in this thread or in some other groups in the world?

In general. In multiple message boards people usually go on about his smarminess.

I mean yes he has his moments, but I don't understand the hate. He isn't different than your typical political show host.

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

I'm editing my post so I can clarify more.

I think it doesn't bother me for two reasons:

#1 Maher is a political satirist. He isn't suppose to deliver the news, he's suppose to make jokes and entertain his audience. The show is meant to be a debate show/comedy crossover. So I don't hold him to the same standards as say Rachel Maddow.

#2 You can think of me as a typical liberal punk all you want, but I'm sorry, most of the stuff Maher strikes at from the right aren't really debatable IMO. Universal Health Care should be a right. Its cheaper for the people and the nation, the people would get better care, and its been implemented in every developed country. I just can't see why someone would knock on that and instead go further with our mess of our health care system. So yes, I don't care if Maher picks on these people. They deserve all the criticism they can get. Because IMO that is factually a stupid opinion. Same thing with people who don't want LGBT couples to get married or even have civil unions. I don't care what you believe is part of your religion, there is something called the separation of church and state. I can go on, but that's simply the end of it.

In short, I believe in objective "opinions", and I don't mind if Maher wipes Republicans face in their piss, because 90% of the time what he's arguing isn't really up for debate, as the other side is just ignorance. Now I do admit that there's that 10% which usually boils down to environmental issues, Islamaphobia, and foreign policy. But its easy for me to ignore.

Again you an call me a liberal punk or ignorant all you want, but I'm sorry, I find most of what he picks on deserving of getting picked.

pkd88 posted:

Bill is very arrogant. He is what conservatives accuse (probably rightly) the left of being.


What does that mean, "Left of being"?

punk rebel ecks fucked around with this message at Oct 20, 2011 around 07:11

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

bango skank posted:

I love Keith Olbermann's show if only for the fact that it's like a liberal version of the O'Reilly Factor.

While Olbermann does have his moments...no.

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

bango skank posted:

Olbermann's might be different in that it's based on fact instead of FYGM but other than that...?

Yes other than that teeny tiny point.

There's also the fact that Olbermann doesn't attack his guests & cut their mics off.

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

bango skank posted:

Dude, I like the guy. I'm not attacking him. All I'm saying is his show is the liberal analogue of O'Reilly's, and it is in that conservatives probably look at it the way liberals do the Factor.

I'm not saying that Olbermann's show isn't bias. It is very bias and I stopped watching it because I always rolled my eyes with his shtick. But you can't compare him to O'Reily. One is brown poo poo, the other is green gooey poo poo with corn stuck in it. Yes they're both poo poo, but one is far worse than the other.

bango skank posted:

Back to Real Time discussion.

Olbermann should be on Real-Time more.

Why isn't O'Reily on real time?

Imagine O'Reily and Olbermann together.

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

JerkyBunion posted:

Engvall on the other hand comes off as the typical middle American. Too busy with life to pay attention to politics too closely, too busy to scrutinize any talking point that "makes sense" on the face but, when presented with facts or counter arguments, is willing to accept it and make the correct judgment.

Pretty much.

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

Maher did have a point with STEM being far more important to society than other degrees. Its STEAM that fuels both technology and the economy in this new digital world.


IRQ posted:

What really pisses me off is that I really bought into his line of thinking. I have a "useless" undergrad degree too, so I went to grad school, and now I have debt I will probably never get out from under and another degree that would be useful in Maher's world, except I would literally kill myself if I made a life of it. I don't think he's ever considered that aspect of what he's saying, and it's not just me.

With the exception of Nursing and possibly Computer Science, all degrees are pretty much bullshit.

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

LuisX posted:

I agree with this. I am a bit perplexed that you are the only who voiced this point in this forum so far though. Maybe it is analogous to the representation of the 35k STEM graduates versus the 80k art graduates?

I'm a psychology major. So I guess I'm literally in the between?

Wooty posted:

Why is this?

Because most of the jobs in which are required to expand and move a nation forward deal heavily with math and to a lesser extent science.

Grand Fromage posted:

Nobody ever talks about the quality of graduates though. I've been working in education in Asia for a bit, and from my perspective any time you see a statistic about how China or South Korea is doing better than the US, it's bullshit. Massive grade inflation here is standard practice. No one fails. Universities have a 98% graduation rate. Kids here become fantastic memorize-regurgitate test taking machines but are utterly helpless if you give them a problem that requires any critical thought.

I live in Hyundai's manufacturing city and know some engineers there who confirmed it works like this for them too. When Hyundai needs to design a new ship, they hire German, Norwegian, and American engineers to do it. They live here and take care of all the troubleshooting and any redesigns needed. Korean engineers are excellent at making things, but give them something that requires creativity and they're stumped, so they hire us for that.

American education is far better than the 16TH IN THE WORLD news stories lead people to believe. The cost is a problem, the quality isn't so much.

Does this apply to Japan and Singapore too?

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

richardfun posted:

I know it's the View, but it's got Maher in it so I'm posting this clip here.

Watch Elizabeth Hasselbeck give new meaning to the term passive-aggressive.

Also, why the hell would he appear on that show. I'd assume that's about as far away from his target audience as he could possibly get...

I'm going to kill myself now. No really that was THAT bad.

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

So,Buddy Roemer seems pretty cool. Is what he showed on the show his true colors or was he being tame for the liberal audience?

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

Grand Fromage posted:

I liked this Republican guy, they should have him on more. How is it that Reagan is when everything really went wrong yet it seems most of the people who actually worked for Reagan are the reasonable conservatives now?

From most interviews I've seen with Reagan's previous staff, most of them realize how wrong they were.

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

That woman is the loving worst!

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

Maher was spot on with Occupy Wallstreet. What a sad case.

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

ApexAftermath posted:

Yeah I'm kind of shocked he was on in the state he was in. You can't understand a goddamn thing he says.

This. He seemed out of it, looked like crap, and I couldn't understand him, and so couldn't Bill. I mean I understand he is almost 100 and is a legend, but it just seemed awkward.

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

If it wasn't for Nick Gillispie (?) this dude would easily be the worst guest on the show. This isn't even about idealogy. I disagree with Cuban with virtually everything but he's still a competent guest. This guy is loud as gently caress, talks over people, and talks like Twista rapping.

Also why is the right wing so stubborn with not accepting that the government created the internet?

zVxTeflon posted:

Did Mark Cuban just say the Chinese did Pearl Harbor?

I thought I was the only one who caught that.

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

Frot Lesnar posted:

Chris Hayes, a centrist woman from the Economist and I think Dennis Hastert's former chief of staff.

I really hate it how The Economist always prides itself in being "centrist". There is nothing centrist about it.

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

Did Bill just spoil the end of Prometheus? gently caress I wanted to see that!

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

Am I the only one that feels that Bill is becoming less and less liberal each episode. His anti-tax, anti-gun control, and anti-Islam has really been kicked into gear.

I really will say that the gendercide statistic shocked me.

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

The thing that the media overwhelming ignores is that most terrorists plots are foiled due to other Muslims reporting them. It isn't great police work foiling these schemes and plans.

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

If people could chose their own schools wouldn't white people just chose schools with the least amount of black people?

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

That Occupy chick was annoying.

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

LabyaMynora posted:

Yeah, about the 3rd time she and Barney Frank were yelling at each other, I turned to my wife and said, "This is why liberals can't ever get anything done." Barney Frank's not the enemy, and nothing he said was at all bad, yet she's jumping on him before he can finish a sentence.

Her reaction to Bill's comparison of Occupy to the Tea Party, "We're not about sending people to congress, were about changing the culture," reminded me of John Boehner's, "Don't judge us on laws passed, judge us on laws we've repealed." Well, House Republicans haven't repealed poo poo, and Occupy hasn't changed jack about American culture.

Pretty much. It was like Barney was arguing with Abby Huntsman or something. What's worse was the stupid poo poo they argued about :

Barney: "We have too few police in the ghettos to protect African Americans. They should have more there and should be better trained."
Occupy Girl: "But some are abusive, they should have way way less!"
Barney: "Ridiculous they need to be better trained and crack down on the abusive, these places are dangerous and we need to protect the people."
JayZ: "We should focus on getting those people out of the ghettos!"
Barney: "Yes but that takes time, getting people out of the situation doesn't happen overnight so for now we should at least make sure they are safe."
Occupy Girl: "Abuse! Social Mobility!"
*Audience goes wild*

Occupy Girl: "Bradley Manning did nothing wrong!"
Barney: "He leaked a document that didn't edit out the names of many covert agents."
Occupy Girl: "But that same leak also showed sketchy things congress did against minimum wage and stuff."
Barney: "Well yeah but he didn't edit out the names of some people who could now get killed."
Occupy Girl: "Government is secret a lot though all information should be known."
Barney: "So everyone should know every single thing that the government does."
Occupy Girl: *Dodges*
Barney: "You aren't answering my question."
Occupy Girl: *Dodges*
Barney: "You still aren't answering my question."
Occupy Girl: *Dodges*
Barney: "Seriously just answer my question."
Occupy Girl: "It's better than what we have now."

I mean Jesus Christ.

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

I loved how that Economist woman started feeling uneasy when they started talking about jailing bankers. "But what would that solve!?!"

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

Was it true what that guy said that social mobility has improved with the poorest from 47% not moving up to 43%?

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

Zogo posted:

Does no one here like Reason magazine? I know it leans libertarian but I thought they put out a lot of interesting articles (not all of them are diametrically opposed to Real Time's demographic).

Also, why are these purple ideas and groups inherently bad?


I doubt the guy would lie outright but there wasn't enough elaboration on what that was in reference to (just like nearly all stats cited on TV shows). Why start 40 years ago at 1970? There may be a reason.

Social mobility wasn't defined nor was poorness.

40 years is typically how this stuff is measured. Every 40 years is considered an entirely new generation going into middle age.

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

The most hilarious part with Schultz's Cuba rant was how she said its been getting worse. The nation has been rapidly getting better lately. And saying its worse than ever before is hilarious.

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

Happy_Misanthrope posted:

Idiotic guests are really only entertaining if there's an equivalently strong opposing force to push back at their idiocy and/or just mock them, the rest of the panel wasn't just up to it in this case...

zVxTeflon posted:

The only thing worse than S.E. Cupp is 2 baby boomers sucking their own dicks about how their generation is totally not full of entitled whiny retards because they didn't have cell phones as kids or whatever.
You two pretty much said everything I wanted to say. S.E. Cupp was horrible and Bill and P.J. acting as if the average American child lives a life of a rich suburbanite is even worse.

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

They guy spouting "Democracy isn't real" on Overtime was annoying. He also talked for an eternity about nothing at one point of the show.

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punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will become THE PIRATE KING!!!

Is Shane Smith's criticisms of Canada and Scandinavian true?

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