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Wales Grey posted:The real question isn't "would Battletech have more verisimilitude if the Clans weren't honor-obsessed lunatics and instead acted like That's only the question if we're suggesting that it should actually be done, which by all the indications of how short it'd last we're not. Although you have to admit it might be fun as some kind of one-off or thought experiment. And the SLDF had to go hard like that because normally they were fighting enemies at some sort of parity. On the Pentagon worlds they were fighting each other, for example. Roll up on a bunch of slow-moving, no-navy-having feudal lords with terrible organization and communication and you could probably just blow up one planet to remind everyone that you can and then swat any dropships you don't like out of the air.
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Mar 17, 2014 00:17
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Dolash posted:That's only the question if we're suggesting that it should actually be done, which by all the indications of how short it'd last we're not. The SLDF rescinded the Ares Conventions to beat up the Periphery States, and by the time they were doing it to fight Amaris it was an institutional part of SLDF doctrine. It was not something they did because the Taurians were able to field an army on par with the SLDF, they did it because it was faster. The Smoke Jaguars are, ironically, very true to SLDF combat doctrine.
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Mar 17, 2014 00:54
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Defiance Industries posted:The SLDF rescinded the Ares Conventions to beat up the Periphery States, and by the time they were doing it to fight Amaris it was an institutional part of SLDF doctrine. It was not something they did because the Taurians were able to field an army on par with the SLDF, they did it because it was faster. The Smoke Jaguars are, ironically, very true to SLDF combat doctrine. And... this is why I don't like the fact that FanPro/Catalyst is delving into the Star League era and trying to flesh it out. Leaving it in a semi-mythical status that Battletech characters of the now could harken back to and fantasize about as something truly better is in my opinion makes for more fun story than "well really it was poo poo then too just different".
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Mar 17, 2014 03:16
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:And... this is why I don't like the fact that FanPro/Catalyst is delving into the Star League era and trying to flesh it out. Leaving it in a semi-mythical status that Battletech characters of the now could harken back to and fantasize about as something truly better is in my opinion makes for more fun story than "well really it was poo poo then too just different". But how else will I know if the founding unit of the 123rd Assault Cluster of Clan Peridot Macaw had numbers accurate to this other description written almost twenty years ago encrusted with almost three decades of grognard speculation? And think of the Wales Grey fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Mar 17, 2014 |
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Mar 17, 2014 05:03
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:And... this is why I don't like the fact that FanPro/Catalyst is delving into the Star League era and trying to flesh it out. Leaving it in a semi-mythical status that Battletech characters of the now could harken back to and fantasize about as something truly better is in my opinion makes for more fun story than "well really it was poo poo then too just different". It's not a change at all. It's actually been the case since the very first sourcebooks were written. All the original sourcebooks, but especially the Star League book, were very candid about how the Star League was formed, from the Hegemony and the FWL causing an interstellar financial crisis by having all their shell corporations post giant losses and create an economic depression to weaken the Lyrans, to signing a secret agreement with the FedSuns that the SLDF would side with them against the Combine, and signing agreements with the Combine that they would side with them against the Davions at the same time. The Periphery book runs down all the lovely things the SLDF did in the Reunification War, not to mention the entire war was a blatant land grab. This was written in 1988. The fact all the characters look back to the Star League as this great time is supposed to be them idealizing a time where they overlook that, for example, the Houses were fighting hidden wars using proxies, and that the Periphery states were being bled dry to support the SLDF, or all the dirty things the Camerons and Mariks did to get it together, and the original House books comment on that repeatedly. I think all the House books have a passage that says "the people of this House think that the Star League was the pinnacle of human civilization, which is of course true because we're ComStar so we agree with that, but they idealize it to a point where they ignore all the fighting and exploitation that was necessary for it to exist" or what have you. Defiance Industries fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Mar 17, 2014 |
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Mar 17, 2014 05:19
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Even the original 'This only has the Unseen 'mechs in it' Battletech rulebook was pretty clear about that in its historical section: the Star League's big advantage and big claim to being an idyllic civilization... was that it could actually repair its stuff. That's about it. The Successor States went a little nuts with the sudden lack of the SLDF's sword of Damocles over their heads during the First Succession War, but otherwise, they've been prosecuting a far more limited scope of warfare than the Star League used to, purely out of necessity. When you can't rebuild your industrial base, you start to think twice about blowing up what you can take, instead.
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Mar 17, 2014 05:56
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What is actually going on currently in the original non-PTN battletech universe? I'm not really caught up on whatever stuff happened after the Republic started crumbling.
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Mar 19, 2014 09:14
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In my experience the timeline ends shortly after Tukkayid. I.e. the "lalala can't hear you" continuity. I understand the urge to advance the plot but I think the Inner Sphere rebuilding after Tukkayid was a good place to stop from a selling-games perspective. You have multiple factions that can fight each other in multiple equally plausible ways. Maybe Operation Serpent could have been one or two real-time years of promotion. There's no reason to take that status quo and mess with it to the extent they did. There were a dozen directions they could have gone in -- in terms of selling miniature games products -- from the after-Tukkayid setting without flipping the table and alienating fans. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 12:45 on Mar 19, 2014 |
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Mar 19, 2014 12:39
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Nah. Flip the table. 3250 reboot all the way to the bank. Plus if you stop after Tukayyid it's nothing but Superfriends forever.
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Mar 19, 2014 14:37
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I'd say what made the universe less palatable to me was what came after the Fedcomm civil war. That event, while cartoonish, still held a lot of promise and made for a new kind of war we hadn't seen properly before. Or at least, I hadn't. Maybe it was just Mechwarrior 4 Mercs that sold me on the time though. On the other hand, I'm a much bigger fan of the idea of a reboot like this, but where the clans new tech doesn't get as easily assimilated by the IS forces and they have to fight them back with sheer numbers or new tactics.
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Mar 19, 2014 20:53
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Hastilude: Tactical Update 20 The lights in the Wraith’s cockpit flickered and went out for the span of a heartbeat as the battered, blackened machine stood dumbfounded. Dr. Sequord stared in silence, her eyes wide with shock as she struggled to understand what’d just happened. The thin wisps of smoke that still rose from the Orion’s missile launchers told the story. She’d been counting on that machine’s continued quiescence, but apparently the enemy warrior had taken her choice to avoid the Clan-made machine’s primary armament as a personal affront. Or perhaps the Clan warrior had simply grown tired of waiting. Her ragged breathing was loud in her ears, her neurohelmet claustrophobic and stifling. Alone, outnumbered, outarmored, and outgunned in that moment staring at too-close Orion she’d have given nearly anything for some reinforcements. She’d even have accepted help from Kemper Varas, but Varas was dead. His machine was still burning, its cockpit shot away. She was going to die here, alone. In a coffin of her own design. Her secondary monitors flickered as the Clan jamming intensified; but they’d lost their ECM with their Anvil. The Orion’s weapons rose menacingly as the enemy pilot prepared for a follow-up attack; but something behind it drew the doctor’s eye. There was nothing and yet, she thought she saw movement: a faint shape—indefinable yet familiar. She spared a second to wonder if stress had driven her crazy. What were hallucinations a symptom of again? Dehydration? An autocannon boomed, and the Orion disintegrated in a blinding flash. A Hunchback stood shrouded in a cloud of inky black smoke for a few moments before a puff of wind obscured it. Sequord switched to magnetic resonance imaging for a better look; but found nothing at all. She toggled back to visible light even as the Grizzly spun amidst a hail of charged particles and plasma, its remaining arm pirouetted through the air before the machine fell, decapitated. The enemy Wraith twisted as a Stinger attacked from nowhere, its blue paintjob clearly visible while it moved—yet fading away as the machine stopped to take a swipe with the four-meter spike attached to its left wrist. Another Stinger, nearly invisible behind the first scored at hit with its own pike; and true to its namesake a Chameleon crossed in front of her Wraith almost close enough to touch and drove its own weapon into the Clan machine’s back. The barbed spear came out trailing bits Dr. Sequord recognized as pieces of the gyro housing, and the Wraith collapsed. Dr. Sequord’s fingers tightened on the controls and something—perhaps a slight movement of her Wraith’s arm—must have caught the Chameleon’s attention. There was a startling clang as it rested the pistol-like barrel of its Large Laser against her machine’s cockpit. She froze. “Dr. Sequord,” a voice boomed in her ears. “Count yourself lucky: You’ve just been rescued by the Rim Worlds Republic Blackguard. Now please, power down and wait for the Captain-General to come rescue you.” “What—?” she began incredulously. “She’s resisting,” another voice exclaimed. “Putting her down.” Her Wraith lurched as the Rim World Chameleon drove its lance into the Wraith’s left knee. It twisted as it pulled away, shattering the joint as it pulled away. Dr. Sequord’s head caromed off the back of the machine’s command couch as it landed flat on its back.  Combat Phase Knights Wraith - Fires Large Pulse Laser at Clan Grizzly (3 base + 2 range + 3 movement + 0 enemy movement - 2 Pulse Laser = 6): rolled 3, miss! - Gains 17 heat, sinks 20! Clan Wraith - Holds fire! - Gains 7 heat, sinks 20! Clan Orion - Fires Narc Launcher at Knights Wraith (1 base + 2 range + 0 movement + 3 enemy movement + 2 light woods = 8): rolled 4, miss! - Fires LRM-20 at Knights Wraith (1 base + 0 range + 0 movement + 3 enemy movement + 2 light woods = 6): rolled 6, 16 missiles hit Right Torso (11/18 armor remains), Right Torso (6/18 armor remains), Left Leg (14/20 armor remains), Center Torso (6/23 armor remains)! - Fires Medium Laser at Knights Wraith (1 base + 2 range + 0 movement + 3 enemy movement + 2 light woods = 8): rolled 9, hit Right Torso (1/18 armor remains)! - Fires SRM-4 at Knights Wraith (1 base + 2 range + 0 movement + 3 enemy movement + 2 light woods = 8): rolled 9, (dice 9) missiles hit Right Arm (11/14 armor remains), Left Arm (11/14 armor remains), Left Arm (9/14 armor remains), Right Leg (18/20 armor remains)! - Fires LB-10X Autocannon (Cluster) at Knights Wraith (1 base + 0 range + 0 movement + 3 enemy movement + 2 light woods - 1 cluster = 5): rolled 7, 7 submunitions hit Left Torso (8/18 armor remains), Right Leg (17/20 armor remains), Center Torso (5/23 armor remains), Right Arm (10/14 armor remains), Right Torso (0/18 armor remains), Left Leg (13/20 armor remains), Left Torso (7/18 armor remains)! - Gains 13 heat, sinks 22! Clan Grizzly - No line of sight to target! - Gains 0 heat, sinks 22! Hunchback? - Fires Ultra AC/20 (Ultra) at Clan Orion (2 base + 0 range + 0 movement + 0 enemy movement + 1 VSS = 3): rolled 8, 2 shells hit Left Torso (Rear) (0/10 armor, 0/16 structure remains (`Mech destroyed!), Center Torso (Rear) (0/9 armor, 14/23 structure remains)! - Gains 16 heat, sinks ???! Unknown Assault - Fires Light PPC w/Capacitor at Clan Grizzly (2 base + 0 range + 0 movement + 0 enemy movement + 1 light woods = 3): rolled 7, hit Left Arm (0/22 armor, 5/11 structure remains)! Crit! - Fires Light PPC w/Capacitor at Clan Grizzly (2 base + 0 range + 0 movement + 0 enemy movement + 1 light woods = 3): rolled 5, hit Left Arm (0/11 structure remains)! Arm blown off! - - Damage transfers to Left Torso (0/23 armor, 12/15 structure remains)! Crit! - Fires Plasma Rifle at Clan Grizzly (2 base + 2 range + 0 movement + 0 enemy movement + 1 light woods + 1 VSS = 6): rolled 10, hit Right Torso (0/23 armor, 6/15 structure remains)! Crit! - Fires LB 10-X Autocannon (Cluster) at Clan Grizzly (2 base + 0 range + 0 movement + 0 enemy movement + 1 light woods + 1 VSS - 1 Cluster = 3): rolled 8, 10 submunitions hit Left Leg (19/27 armor remains), Left Leg (18/27 armor remains), Left Torso (11/15 structure remains (Crit!)), Left Torso (10/15 structure remains (Crit!)), Left Leg (17/27 armor remains), Head (0/3 structure remains (`Mech destroyed!)), Left Torso (9/15 structure remains (Crit!)), Right Torso (5/15 structure remains (Crit!)), Center Torso (16/22 structure remains (Crit!)), Right Torso (4/15 structure remains (Crit!))! - Gains 32 heat, sinks ???! Stinger? - Holds Fire! Stinger? - Holds Fire! Chameleon? - Holds fire! End Phase: Physical Combat Phase: Stinger? - Attacks Clan Wraith with Lance (2 base + 2 movement + 4 enemy movement = 8): rolled 7, miss! Stinger? - Attacks Clan Wraith with Lance (2 base + 2 movement + 4 enemy movement = 8): rolled 8, hit Right Torso (9/18 armor remains)! Rolls 10, armor penetrated (12/13 structure remains)! Limited Crit! Chameleon? - Attacks Clan Wraith with Lance (2 base + 1 movement + 4 enemy movement = 8): rolled 11, hit Rear Right Torso (0/7 armor remains, 14/18 structure remains)! Crit! End Phase: Clan Wraith - Limited Critical chance in Right Torso! 1 critical hit sustained! - - Jump Jet destroyed! - Critical chance in Center Torso! 2 critical hits sustained! - - Gyro hit! - - Gyro destroyed! `Mech destroyed! Unit Status:   Knights of the Inner Sphere Mission Objectives: - Win (???) Hastilude Enemy Movement Mods: - Wraith – Jumped +4 - Orion – Stationary +0 - Grizzly – Walked +0 After-Action Report:  All of those attacks were rolled legitimately. For a good time, try to where’s Waldo the `Mechs that have been hidden on the map for the past several turns! Vote for MVPs!
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Mar 20, 2014 00:27
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What in the gently caress? Wow. I wasn't expecting that!
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Mar 20, 2014 00:33
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Mar 20, 2014 00:34
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what in the actual gently caress just happened
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Mar 20, 2014 00:35
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Okay. Uh. Okay. So can someone explain to me with a basic but decent summary of what the gently caress just happened this mission?
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Mar 20, 2014 00:36
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MVPs: Players: The Anvil. Top zombie work. OPFOR: The Orion, for wrecking poo poo like a champ.
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Mar 20, 2014 00:37
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The NRWR have chameleon systems and just gobsmacked the poo poo out of the FWL and clanners alike. Man those clanners are going to be loving pissed. This sorta owns.
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Mar 20, 2014 00:38
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Holy poo poo. Dr. Sequord for MVP for lasting this long Enemy MVP goes to whoever shot out Varas's cockpit
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Mar 20, 2014 00:38
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NRWR has the Lance. They are now the strongest faction by far. Such a broken weapon.
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Mar 20, 2014 00:40
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Chances are that the real atrocity is taking place in out in space.
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Mar 20, 2014 00:40
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MVP: Anvil, because that's some crazy zombie play. Opfor MVP: Orion, because goddamn that firepower was used to great effect.
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Mar 20, 2014 00:40
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I'm not exactly pleased by this. Players MVP: The Anvil. Top zombie work. OPFOR MVP: The Orion, for wrecking poo poo like a champ.
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Mar 20, 2014 00:41
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The Merry Marauder posted:Chances are that the real atrocity is taking place in out in space. Does alt-timeline NRWR somehow have warships too? Or are they just seeding nuclear mines and poo poo on this world's orbit since they obviously knew where the trial was.
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Mar 20, 2014 00:41
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Artificer posted:Okay. Uh. Okay. So can someone explain to me with a basic but decent summary of what the gently caress just happened this mission? The Rim World Guards who were sent to join the Knights were a sleeper cell. When the trial was organised, they left barracks and hid themselves on the battlefield. Now they just dishonourably ended the trial and the Clans are going to go on a rampage through the Free Worlds League.
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Mar 20, 2014 00:42
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Alchenar posted:The Rim World Guards who were sent to join the Knights were a sleeper cell. When the trial was organised, they left barracks and hid themselves on the battlefield. Now they just dishonourably ended the trial and the Clans are going to go on a rampage through the Free Worlds League. So some of the people fighting at the beginning of the fight were in on this plan, and they fought and died as part of this ruse. And when poo poo hit the fan the rest of the conspirators ambushed and murdered the gently caress out of the Clanners. What happened to the guy who was supposed to be initially in charge of this whole operation and sent the guards to the barracks to find that it had been abandoned?
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Mar 20, 2014 00:47
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Goon MVP is the Knight Wraith, Clan MVP is the Clan Orion. Maybe I missed something, but why did the scenario end? Isn't the Goon Wraith still intact?
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Mar 20, 2014 00:47
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Artificer posted:So some of the people fighting at the beginning of the fight were in on this plan, and they fought and died as part of this ruse. And when poo poo hit the fan the rest of the conspirators ambushed and murdered the gently caress out of the Clanners. No, the FWL were NOT in on the plan. That's why the doctor was going WHAT THE gently caress.
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Mar 20, 2014 00:49
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Dolash posted:Goon MVP is the Knight Wraith, Clan MVP is the Clan Orion. All of the clan mechs are dead.
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Mar 20, 2014 00:50
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Doesn't mean the Doc couldn't have tried to take 'em all on herself!
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Mar 20, 2014 00:51
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Goon wraith took a lance to the knee, mission was a wipe. They're going to have to replay the WHOLE THING because some jerks turned up at the end to do donuts on the field.
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Mar 20, 2014 00:52
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Artificer posted:So some of the people fighting at the beginning of the fight were in on this plan, and they fought and died as part of this ruse. And when poo poo hit the fan the rest of the conspirators ambushed and murdered the gently caress out of the Clanners. Pretty sure the only person who was in on the plan was the guy from the NRWR piloting the Mountain Lion, Sir Varas. And he probably didn't die when his cockpit went up in smoke either, because of tech shenanigans. And the NRWR were probably planning this ambush all along, going to attack the Clanners at the best moment for maximum effect, like what just happened now. The guy in charge, Captain-General Duncan Marik, is likely as gobsmacked by what the NRWR forces just pulled off as the observing Clanners and survivors there. He was trying to contact the Clanner leadership at the end of the last fluff update, so maybe he'll be able to convince them that he wasn't in on this NRWR ambush and he was trying to warn them when it happened. It probably won't work and the Clans will go on a roaring rampage of revenge on the now dishonorable FWL, but he'll have to make his best attempt to try... As for MVPs: GoonKnights MVP: the Anvil for being able to zombie and draw fire so effectively OpFor MVP: the Orion for wrecking face
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Mar 20, 2014 00:55
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The mission isn't over. Stand by for Surprise Campaign Mission: Ultimatum
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Mar 20, 2014 00:56
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Gwaihir posted:Does alt-timeline NRWR somehow have warships too? Or are they just seeding nuclear mines and poo poo on this world's orbit since they obviously knew where the trial was. Eh, you don't really need nukes to take out WarShips, at least not when they're the Star League designs that don't have any meaningful anti-fighter guns. Just swarm the things with ASFs and they'll go down. Nuclear weapons are more of a shortcut than a necessity even when you're dealing with something the size of a McKenna.
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Mar 20, 2014 00:56
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PoptartsNinja posted:The mission isn't over.  So this is what the fate of the FWL comes down to after this... Can't wait to see what you have in store, PTN.
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Mar 20, 2014 00:57
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Gwaihir posted:Does alt-timeline NRWR somehow have warships too? Or are they just seeding nuclear mines and poo poo on this world's orbit since they obviously knew where the trial was. Sure they do. And look, it's a big invasion fleet all in one place, not expecting trouble. Why kill a couple great warriors in a special op when you can really swing for the fences?
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Mar 20, 2014 00:57
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Welp there goes two Galaxy Commanders. Those aren't easy to replace. So, all in favor of having the FWL just open up the gates, letting the clans through, and aiding them with their trout fishing? For MVPs: Anvil on the player side and Orion on the clan side, for reasons above.
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Mar 20, 2014 00:59
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Holy poo poo  I guess the NRWR has null-sig equipped mechs or something? Anyway MVPs: Knight Anvil on the player team for being an awesome zombie and doing the FWL proud. Clan Orion on the Clan team for loving dudes up in general. edit: PoptartsNinja posted:The mission isn't over. You magnificent bastard.
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Mar 20, 2014 01:01
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Gay Abortions posted:Welp there goes two Galaxy Commanders. Those aren't easy to replace. The question is whether the Clans would even allow Duncan to join them, considering the ones who breached the honourable duel were part of his force - they might even think this is some plot by him! I'd assume the Rim Worlder's plan is to try and force the Free Worlds' League into fighting the Clans by getting them blamed for this debacle. It's an extension of the whole false flag operation they tried with the Lyrans, Amaris wants the Free World League softened up by anyone and everyone and all the better if they're taking a hit that had been aimed at him. Damnit, this is why we should've voted for letting the Clans through and offering to join them in the first place!
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Mar 20, 2014 01:04
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Holybat posted:Holy poo poo Void sig. A slightly different animal. It's much harder to use offensively. In theory.
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Mar 20, 2014 01:04
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PoptartsNinja posted:The mission isn't over.  Surprises like this are why this thread's still going strong after 3 years of continuous giant robot action.
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Mar 20, 2014 01:06
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