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Winning initiative in urban environments is an absurdly big advantage (barring the occasional body-block shenanigans on PTN's part). ...which is a good reason to remind everybody that those Comstar mechs whose interest has been piqued are both Aces. Voyager I fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Jul 2, 2015 |
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Jul 2, 2015 05:32
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Voyager I posted:Winning initiative in urban environments is an absurdly big advantage, barring the occasional body-block shenanigans on PTN's part. To be fair, if it's blocking shenanigans you're worried about, Ace status prevents being able to block in that manner...
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Jul 2, 2015 05:35
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No, it's the dancing around your lines of sight and always getting to fight on their terms that I'm worried about. Occasionally PTN might use his initiative loss to park a Jenner in a street you wanted to walk down but that's a small price to pay for dictating every engagement.
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Jul 2, 2015 05:42
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Gwaihir posted:Initiative, dusk, ghost targets, and my own speed make drivebys not all that dangerous. And we needed to know what (if anything) was hiding! You could also get right behind the Sha-Yu and crack open its rear armour / kick its legs off. You've got a lot of options.
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Jul 2, 2015 06:01
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Scintilla posted:You could also get right behind the Sha-Yu and crack open its rear armour / kick its legs off. You've got a lot of options. A note - doing that would expose your rear to the ComGuard Grim Reaper. This might not be a terrible idea - it's a lot easier to sell "we're not here to gently caress with ComStar" if you can add "to prove it I'm giving you an opening that I would never, ever give to a guy that I wanted to fight" - but it is a risk, so keep it in mind.
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Jul 2, 2015 06:42
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You're assuming ComGuard is not looking for an excuse to shoot you. I can't help but be reminded of the guards from HL2 after getting popped by random trash, so after the van went up I imagine they're gonna come running shouting "A beating!" Also, is there a reason the Wyvern does not have to take a pilot roll after getting nailed with a pair of gauss?
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Jul 2, 2015 07:15
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Voyager I posted:No, it's the dancing around your lines of sight and always getting to fight on their terms that I'm worried about. Occasionally PTN might use his initiative loss to park a Jenner in a street you wanted to walk down but that's a small price to pay for dictating every engagement. A block can be worse in a lot of ways - primarily because actual movement options are limited in a thick urban environment, and a block can cut off a sizable number of a very limited supply of options. Not that Aces aren't a problem for different reasons, because they very much are, but in a situation where the number of potential moves are very limited, blocking can hurt worse. I do remember saying this sort of thing before PTN did in fact park a Jenner, as you mentioned here, on the edge of a building that someone wanted to bypass. That worked out interestingly. I don't think this is the same sort of game state, but... DivineCoffeeBinge posted:A note - doing that would expose your rear to the ComGuard Grim Reaper. That could work, but doing a drive-by that turns away from the HPG might have the same effect with regard to the ComGuard, while also being more tactically viable with regard to the Cappies. That being said, the "ignore the ComGuard" maneuver might be good to play at least once down the line.
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Jul 2, 2015 07:45
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Just wanna chime in and say that I'm happy to see the players post questions about LoS directly to PTN, instead of assuming things and missing out on shots. Good job. Also good job on an exciting mission, keep up the good work. 
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Jul 2, 2015 08:15
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Probably a set up. Now any shots towards the comstar compound will look like you are going after the precentor. Also maybe he lives outside of the compound?
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Jul 2, 2015 08:50
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Gwaihir posted:Hmmm. So, options. While I'd like to try and kick the wyvern's leg off, I'd be a sitting duck for the other two with no move mod. I can easily get behind either the Sha Yu or Bloodhound though, while locking the other one out of LoS. I can also back up to 1015 and help level the building on top of whatever is in there. (And then very much hope that it's a capellan mech hiding and not something of Comstar's. Back up to 0916 and blast the Wyvern? Probably don't want to overextend yet.
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Jul 2, 2015 13:20
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:A note - doing that would expose your rear to the ComGuard Grim Reaper. I thought about that, but then I realized that he wouldn't even be able to see the gesture- The height 7 hospital would be smack between me and the other Comguard mech. Plek posted:Also, is there a reason the Wyvern does not have to take a pilot roll after getting nailed with a pair of gauss? Also gotta wait and see the outcome of this, cause yea, the Wyvern might end up failing a PSR and changing my move options!
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Jul 2, 2015 15:28
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Gwaihir posted:I thought about that, but then I realized that he wouldn't even be able to see the gesture- The height 7 hospital would be smack between me and the other Comguard mech. He's an Ace; he still gets to move past the hospital if he wants.
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Jul 2, 2015 16:04
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This poo poo is why I love cappies. 
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Jul 3, 2015 00:22
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I just hope there isn't a VND-5R anywhere near this place, for the players' sake.
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Jul 3, 2015 01:26
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Setting my ECM to ghost targets and stepping to 1015 facing SW. Gonna blast the poo poo out of the wyvern on the way to making the bloodhound pay. Broadcast this in the clear. "Hey Bloodhound jock, we saw that poo poo. I dunno what they teach you but here in the Free Worlds Leagues" *shoots the poo poo out of the Wyvern "Soldiers fight SOLDIERS! Comstar forces approaching our position we have no quarrel with you. All we're here for are these wannabe mechjocks lives."
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Jul 3, 2015 08:46
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Viva Miriya posted:Setting my ECM to ghost targets and stepping to 1015 facing SW. Gonna blast the poo poo out of the wyvern on the way to making the bloodhound pay. Broadcast this in the clear. That makes it obvious that it isn't a smash and grab, doesn't it? We don't want that, do we?
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Jul 3, 2015 20:33
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Artificer posted:That makes it obvious that it isn't a smash and grab, doesn't it? We don't want that, do we? No it doesn't, killing these a-holes is also on the menu even in a smash and grab, if we gain a mech (possibly 2) and they lose 4 we win. the 2 is the flea, if we lear the field we can salvage that flea as well. heads are actually one of the easier things to fix on a mech and if you just headcap an otherwise working mech you almost always can salvage it, a mech with no other damage like that flea? approaches 100%.
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Jul 3, 2015 20:46
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Yeah, an aggressive attack doesn't preclude a smash-and-grab, because we've got to clear the field of baddies in order to hypothetically have a chance for our salvage team to get in and do work and for a pilot to show up for the Flea. At present, I don't see that as an issue.
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Jul 3, 2015 20:48
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Orders in, this will either work great or end up in terrible failure! Going to go with running down to the left, going in behind the Bloodhound for a kick on 6 and shots on 9s. If I make my ghost targets roll the Wyvern can barely hit me (It will have I think 9s on the Wardog vs 11-12s on me) and the Bloodhound can only bring an ER medium and small laser to bear. PTN can make the following turn pretty bad for me (Unless one of you kind team mates has the good fortune to Leg the Wyvern since you're all unloading at it!), but depending how (if) he chooses to try and block me in I should still be able to break LoS from at least one of his 'Mechs. The rest of the team is going to really need to get down here though, since these buildings are going to play hell with LoS, and I'd rather we not just level them indiscriminately. (It's not like you have to get to physical range, but short gauss range is still medium to long range for most of the enemy weapons, and you need vantage points.) Gwaihir fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Jul 5, 2015 |
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Jul 5, 2015 02:31
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Gwaihir posted:Orders in, this will either work great or end up in terrible failure! Assuming you're going to 0321 I don't think your orientation will let you kick.
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Jul 5, 2015 07:49
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I took the more aggressive option and went to 0421, facing 0321! It's hitting in the right side, and the right leg is the one that already took a gauss hit. So if even one of my small lasers hits his leg, then if the dice are kind I can take it clean off with a kick.
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Jul 5, 2015 19:48
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Behind Enemy Lines: Tactical Update 6 “They’re routing,” Bad crowed, his Maelstrom twisting like a vulture over the fallen body of the knife-like Bloodhound. “Should I polish this one off?” “It’s crippled,” Lt. Coronado replied. “If it stays down or runs I’m content to leave it where it is. The next time we take that pilot on, he’s going to be shaken up. Whether he turns into a reckless idiot or a timid coward we win.” “They shouldn’t have stuck around even this long,” Coronado added. “It was pure vanity on the part of the unit commander to think they could engage a unit of double their weight.” “They did a fair bit of damage for lightweights,” Bad replied defensively, drawing a laugh from Ballista. “They wouldn’t have done any if you’d been a little more cautious, Bad,” the other man teased. “They were buying time,” “Lumberjack” Lowe mused, her massive Nightstar hunkering down a little as she tracked the enemy retreat. “There’s probably a company of `Mechs protecting the capitol—the Protectorate Guard would’ve left a force strong enough to fend us off so I’d expect two heavy lances and the lighter lance we just pushed off. They’re probably keeping one lance active, one lance on standby, and have one lance standing down so I’d estimate a single enemy lance will arrive to reinforce. So the question is: are they withdrawing because we’ve broken them or because their reinforcements were closer than we estimated?” “We’d better form a battle line,” Coronado mused. “They’re probably still lighter than us, but the Protectorate Guard is an elite unit. The Nightstar’s our most durable unit, so Lumberjack’s our core. Either advance to join the rest of us or we’d better back off and draw them towards her Nightstar.”   Movement Phase War Dog (Player) - Generating Ghost Targets (4 base + 2 ECM Tuning = 6): rolled 7, succeeds! Margin of Success 1! Maelstrom (Player) - Generating Ghost Targets (4 base + 2 ECM Tuning = 6): rolled 11, succeeds! Margin of Success 5! Sha Yu - ECCM counters the Maelstrom’s Ghost Targets! Shooting Phase War Dog (Player) - Wyvern declines Line of Sight! - Gains 2 heat, sinks 20! Nightstar (Player) - Fires Gauss Rifle at Wyvern (4 base + 2 range + 0 movement + 2 enemy movement + 1 dusk = 9): rolled 9, hit Right Arm (0/10 armor, 2/7 structure remaining)! Crit! - Fires Gauss Rifle at Wyvern (4 base + 2 range + 0 movement + 2 enemy movement + 1 dusk = 9): rolled 11, hit Center Torso (0/20 armor, 4/14 structure remaining)! Crit! - Fires ER PPC at Wyvern (4 base + 4 range + 0 movement + 2 enemy movement + 1 dusk = 11): rolled 7, miss! - Gains 17 heat, sinks 28! Maelstrom (Player) - Fires ER PPC at Bloodhound (4 base + 0 range + 2 movement + 2 target movement + 1 dusk = 9): rolled 4, miss! - Fires ER Large Laser at Bloodhound (4 base + 0 range + 2 movement + 2 target movement + 1 dusk = 9): rolled 5, miss! - Fires Medium Laser at Bloodhound (4 base + 0 range + 2 movement + 2 target movement + 1 dusk = 9): rolled 3, miss! - Fires Small Laser at Bloodhound (4 base + 0 range + 2 movement + 2 target movement + 1 dusk = 9): rolled 12, hit Right Arm (11/14 armor remaining)! - Fires Small Laser at Bloodhound (4 base + 0 range + 2 movement + 2 target movement + 1 dusk = 9): rolled 6, miss! - Fires Small Laser at Bloodhound (4 base + 0 range + 2 movement + 2 target movement + 1 dusk = 9): rolled 9, hit Head (6/9 armor remaining)! Pilot hit! - Gains 35 heat, sinks 34! Cerberus (Player) - Wyvern declines Line of Sight! - Gains 2 heat, sinks 30! Wyvern - Torso-twists to threaten hex 0619! - Fires Large Pulse Laser at Maelstrom (4 base + 2 range + 3 movement + 2 enemy movement + 1 dusk - 2 pulse laser = 10): rolled 11, hit Right Torso (16/26 armor remaining)! - Fires Medium Pulse Laser at Maelstrom (4 base + 2 range + 3 movement + 2 enemy movement + 1 dusk - 2 pulse laser = 10): rolled 4, miss! - Fires Medium Pulse Laser at Maelstrom (4 base + 2 range + 3 movement + 2 enemy movement + 1 dusk -2 pulse laser = 10): rolled 6, miss! - Gains 27 heat, sinks 20! Overheating! Sha-yu - Fires ER Large Laser at Nightstar (4 base + 4 range + 1 movement + 0 enemy movement + 1 dusk + 0 Ghost Targets + 1 partial cover = 11): rolled 5, miss! - Fires ER Large Laser at Nightstar (4 base + 4 range + 1 movement + 0 enemy movement + 1 dusk + 0 Ghost Targets + 1 partial cover = 11): rolled 2, miss! - Gains 25 heat, sinks 26! Bloodhound - Torso-twists to threaten hex 0521! - Fires ER Medium Laser at Maelstrom (4 base + 0 range + 1 movement + 2 enemy movement + 1 dusk = 8): rolled 3, miss! - Fires ER Medium Laser at Maelstrom (4 base + 0 range + 1 movement + 2 enemy movement + 1 dusk = 8): rolled 9, hit Left Arm (19/24 armor remaining)! - Fires ER Medium Laser at Maelstrom (4 base + 0 range + 1 movement + 2 enemy movement + 1 dusk = 8): rolled 7, miss! - Fires ER Small Laser at Maelstrom (4 base + 0 range + 1 movement + 2 enemy movement + 1 dusk = 8): rolled 6, miss! - Fires Streak SRM-6 at Maelstrom (4 base + 0 range + 1 movement + 2 enemy movement + 1 dusk = 8): rolled 8, 6 missiles hit Left Arm (17/24 armor remaining), Left Arm (15/24 armor remaining), Left Leg (30/32 armor remaining), Right Leg (30/32 armor remaining), Left Arm (13/24 armor remaining), Right Leg (28/32 armor remaining)! - Gains 12 heat, sinks 28! End Phase Maelstrom (Player) - Must pass a piloting test or fall (4 base + 1 massive damage = 5): rolled 6, succeeds! Wyvern - Must pass a piloting test or fall (4 base + 1 massive damage = 5): rolled 11, succeeds! - Critical chance in Right Arm! No critical hits sustained! - Critical chance in Center Torso! 1 critical hit sustained! - - Engine hit! Bloodhound - Must pass a 3+ consciousness test: rolled 2, fails! Physical Combat Phase: Maelstrom (Player) - Kicks Bloodhound (4 base + 2 movement + 2 enemy movement - 2 kick = 6): rolled 6, hit Right Leg (0/22 armor, 3/11 structure remaining)! Crit! End Phase: Bloodhound - Critical chance in Right Leg! 2 critical hits sustained! - - Hip damaged! - - Lower Leg Actuator damaged! - Must pass a piloting test or fall (4 base + 0 kicked + 3 actuator damage = 7): automatic failure, pilot unconscious! - - Suffers 4 damage in the fall to Left Leg (18/22 armor remaining) - Must pass a piloting test to avoid pilot damage (4 base + 0 kicked + 3 actuator damage + 2 avoiding injury = 9): automatic failure, pilot unconscious! Next Turn Movement Phase Sha Yu - Must pass a skidding test (4 base + 0 distance traveled = 4): rolled , ! - Must pass a skidding test (4 base + 0 distance traveled = 4): rolled , !   Player Status:  Opposing Force Status:   Neutral Status  Mission Objective: - Protect Carlos Marik (0/1) Secondary Objectives: - Damage but don’t destroy the Civillian `Mechbay in hex 0517 (1/1) - Destroy the Capellan Checkpoint in hex 1418 (1/1) - - Make it look like an accident (?/1) - Avoid Antagonizing ComStar (0/1) Vengeance Counter: 2 Special Rules:  Dusk – This mission takes place at dusk, applying a +1 penalty to-hit. This penalty may worsen if the mission lasts long enough for night to fall. Escort Mission – This mission has a mobile objective that must be defended.Orders Due: Midnight Tuesday! PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Jul 6, 2015 |
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Jul 6, 2015 00:03
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PTN, it looks like the Thunder pilot forgot to pack ammo for her AC/20. I'm gonna assume that's not actually the case though.
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Jul 6, 2015 00:15
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Yeah, I noticed that. Fixing it now. Edit: Fixed.
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Jul 6, 2015 00:31
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Gwaihir: Leg the bloodhound and leave the pilot for comstar. Gotta prove our innocence. Then get ready to keep the rest of the cappies busy. No one shoot comstar till they shoot us first. I say this as the guy who has a Lightray ON MY rear end. I'm gonna gently caress up the Wyvern. It should be cored after this turn one way or the other. If not it'll still be hurting.
Viva Miriya fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Jul 6, 2015 |
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Jul 6, 2015 00:46
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gently caress yea kick paid off (barely) Also oh man now the mission kicks in to high gear. PTN, got a rules question: I thought that normal ECM countered ghost targets, not ECCM? I don't have the tacops book though, the only thing I could find was some errata linked from here: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/errata/tactical-operations-4-june-2014-%28v3-3%29/ . It wasn't really specific about saying "ECM counters ghost targets, just "An ECM suite cannot generate ghost targets if the amount of friendly ECCM in a hex is less than the enemy ECM in that hex." (Only reason I ask is that I think the Streak-6 and ERML miss if I get the extra bonus)
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Jul 6, 2015 00:47
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Gwaihir: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kr24G8jQpM
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Jul 6, 2015 00:53
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Remember that the guy did say to focus up around the Nightstar, so you guys will want to huddle up again by the time the heavier lance hits. What's the BV ratio looking like now?
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Jul 6, 2015 00:54
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Gwaihir posted:PTN, got a rules question: I thought that normal ECM countered ghost targets, not ECCM? ECCM specifically counters every other ECM effect. You're using your ECM to counteract another ECM.
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Jul 6, 2015 01:02
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That works, nbd. We've taken a total of like, 30 something damage so far, we're in pretty great shape to trade long range shots with the reinforcements. I should be able to guarantee a kick against the Bloodhound's messed up right leg since the pilot is unconscious, right? I want to leg him and then yell at Comstar to come grab the Mechwarrior and examine his battle-roms since he was the one that tried to false flag us.
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Jul 6, 2015 01:10
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Use the shooting phase to leg the fucker. Only use your small/medium lasers and declare that you are targeting his leg. You can do this cause the dude is KO'd and you don't get any modifiers to shoot said part (Unless you go for the head which is like a +3 or something). Even better cause you are right next to him. Just cut the leg off and if the mech is somehow still standing, kick the poo poo out of him.
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Jul 6, 2015 01:24
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Yeah, if you finish off the Bloodhound and do enough extra damage to the Wyvren that's 3 of 4 mechs from the guard group down which is pretty good, and once the enemy heavies get into position there's no real need to go death-or-glory on those guys since taking them out isn't really your job. I mean fight them, sure, but hanging back and taking your time wouldn't hurt since you'll want to be able to retreat when the time comes (especially if they send more reinforcements) and it's not implausible that a "raiding party" would start to back off once the real security turns up.
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Jul 6, 2015 01:27
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Also the reinforcements have two AC20s, one of them with 3 gunnery. I sure wouldn't want to brawl them.
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Jul 6, 2015 01:46
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Rip off one of the downed 'mechs leg and run at the AC/20 'mechs screaming. That'll teach them.
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Jul 6, 2015 01:56
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drat - if Carlos is in the purple car with the underlights he's in a lousy spot. If he's in the black car he's more vulnerable than I'd like but still in good shape. If he's in the blue truck... we better hope the new reinforcements aren't wise to the plan, or else he could be toast. Enemy BV total is 13732, versus our 9330 - so about 1.47 times our BV. That seems a little more weighted towards PTN than usual, but he may be counting Carlos' ride - or giving himself an extra boost considering that fighting toe-to-toe is not our mission; we win if Carlos stays safe, even if none of us do. Also he might not be counting the Flea. I wouldn't.  Given the reinforcements' axis of entry, I'm thinking I'll keep the Cerebus in the general vicinity it's in now (likely moving to 1711 to take advantage of the partial cover hill); if they sweep west I can move down and around, if they come straight up I can serve as a pivot for the rest of the lance's attack and let us angle in to their flanks. Thoughts? Also, could someone explain to me how the 'declining LOS' bit worked out? 'Cause if I'd realized the Wyvern would have been able to say 'nope, you don't get to shoot at me' I might have moved differently, and that being the case, I want to ensure it doesn't happen again. 
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Jul 6, 2015 02:53
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If the line for LoS passes along the border of a hex, (0917 in this case) then it's up to the unit getting shot at to choose if it wants to have LoS or not. If it shoots back at you, it chooses to have LoS and you can shoot it. But in this case it declined LoS and shot at me instead. Not a big deal since the war dog can plug it in the back without too much trouble before booking it back north. For you, the only spot the reinforcements have LoS on is the 16XX row. Everything else is blocked by buildings and hills. You're good where you are now at least though I think.
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Jul 6, 2015 03:04
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Finish off the bloodhound by either legging it or just blowing open the core, and then the wvyern as well and otherwise start to back off. The Cereb can move forward a hex and put two gauss slugs down the pipe at the enemy commander and potentially capture his head... at which point go hog loving wild you are going to win. The enemy commander can fire an erppc and a lrm-10 back and you have ams so he has almost no chance of killing you, and nobody else in his lance will have los. (golden bb's can always happen.) Remember that you don't have to wipe them out, only distract them long enough, so hitting the two vulnerable targets then pulling back before the heavy lance can fully engage, (potshots along the way. Would be exteremly appropriate, and remember the more of them you wipe out the more enraged they are going to be.
AtomikKrab fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Jul 6, 2015 |
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Jul 6, 2015 03:06
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:Also, could someone explain to me how the 'declining LOS' bit worked out? 'Cause if I'd realized the Wyvern would have been able to say 'nope, you don't get to shoot at me' I might have moved differently, and that being the case, I want to ensure it doesn't happen again. If the LoF runs along a blocking hexside or even the tip of one (e.g. 0917), the targeted player can say the LoS is on the blocked side, declining the fire (and the ability to shoot back). This is another benefit of PTN always losing init (as he always gets first chance to decline). e: still a very minor benefit, obviously, in comparison The Merry Marauder fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Jul 6, 2015 |
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Jul 6, 2015 03:08
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The Merry Marauder posted:If the LoF runs along a blocking hexside or even the tip of one (e.g. 0917), the targeted player can say the LoS is on the blocked side, declining the fire (and the ability to shoot back). Ahhhh, gotcha. I will once again blame my learning the game with minis, where LOS arguments could be solved with a piece of yarn. Heh. Since the reinforcement 'Mechs just arrived, PTN, will they have 0 move mods? Or should we assume they each ran 4 hexes or what? Just in case, you know, I like Krab's idea.
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Jul 6, 2015 03:16
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:Since the reinforcement 'Mechs just arrived, PTN, will they have 0 move mods? Or should we assume they each ran 4 hexes or what? Just in case, you know, I like Krab's idea. I always count new arrivals as having entered the map at a full run.
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Jul 6, 2015 03:18
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