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Tempest_56 posted:Honestly if you're looking for a mobile artillery battery and insist on tube, get the Marksman. BT artillery is pretty useless in singles - you need to platoon fire the stuff for saturation. The Long Tom's scary looking, but it's infinitely more useful to get a quartet of smaller guns and just plaster an area. I was actually thinking in terms of cbill costs rather than b value effectiveness since PTN had mentioned it and we're currently involved in a guerilla war. And guerilla war is all about the benjamins, on account of the guerillas don't have many. And obviously yeah rocket artillery is better for shoot and scoot because you have more projectile weight and less launcher weight for a given amount of bang, but tubes tend to be much cheaper! What I am wondering is what is the lightest, fastest, cheapest (key emphasis here) possible platform you can mount a long tom and a bare handful of shots on while having a bunch of (separate) trucks carrying ammo. Does it turn out you can't make a bare bones artillery platform fast enough and cheap enough to justify using over armored direct fire platforms or an Arrow IV launcher? IDK but this thread might atelier morgan fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Sep 27, 2011 |
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Sep 27, 2011 19:17
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Krumbsthumbs posted:Remember that Joshua can designate one mech with ace status any round he isn't engaged in combat. If the ambush is set up on DE and he isn't engaged, E (the possible Nova) could jump over the ambush and shred someone's backside. This is part of why layered ambushes are so important. The DE team's first reaction to being ambushed should be to close immediately with jump jets. Best way out of an ambush is through the teeth, clanners are douches with anger problems, etc. So you show them a tempting target as the 'anvil' of the ambush like the Grand Dragon while AC 20's are the hammers. My bet is they'll jump right behind the GD, who is probably best armored to serve as our bait. Then the second teeth of the ambush show themselves- a thunderbolt and marauder at optimal alpha strike range covering the GD's rear end. Optimal scenario is only one jumps at a time, giving the Hunchback and monitor some time with one while maybe the E runs ahead with it's faster speed. It looks as if the vehicles stay around 1025 they'll be able to contribute to rear end covering while still being able to shift to ABC in time. Also, keep in mind the time the LT needs to escape- you can't start playing king of the hill on the bottom of the map until around turn 22, if I heard PTN correctly. That means unless you manage to slow down ABC significantly, that gun is a goner. The high elevations make the south of the map perfect for playing king of the hill with the gauss rifle in the GD, but that's subject to dice, and can't be relied on to protect the long tom, who is going to take very little to blow up big time. PoptartsNinja- could you clarify the kill 3 objective? If three clanners go down does the mission end, or does the mission end on turn 20 if three clanners are dead? Edit: The worst possible response to the ambush would be for the clan DE to jump to the far side of the river- from there the carefully layered ambush would have to dissolve into a brawl and it would marginalize the monitor's big gun. That isn't a particularly in character thing for these clanners to do, but it is there. So what happens then? The hunchback and monitor retreat more or less towards starting positions and get ready to mass firepower at the tree breaks, I guess. Centurium fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Sep 27, 2011 |
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Sep 27, 2011 19:27
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UberJew posted:What I am wondering is what is the lightest, fastest, cheapest (key emphasis here) possible platform you can mount a long tom and a bare handful of shots on while having a bunch of (separate) trucks carrying ammo. Well, what are your parameters? I could design something that fits the bill, but it won't be fast enough to evade counter-battery barring a completely flat firing area (and firing from a fixed, prepared position defeats the purpose of a mobile artillery), and it'll be completely vulnerable to sweeping attacks. In fact, let's do that: Internal Combustion Semi-Mobile Long Tom Artillery Vehicle 30 tons Movement 2/3 front armor: 8 side armor: 6 rear armor: 4 1 Long Tom Artillery Cannon 1 ton of ammo total cost 988,000 Cost of the 55 ton Mobile Long Tom: 1,080,092 Net savings: less than 100,000 c-bills With no internal ammo storage, you can also make: Internal Combustion Nearly Immobile Long Tom Artillery Vehicle 25 tons Movement 1/2 Front Armor: 0 Side Armor: 0 Rear Armor: 0 1 Long Tom Artillery Cannon total cost 875,521 but a stiff breeze could take it out, it has no ammo and no mobility. On the plus? It's light enough to be easily transported by aircraft (but not VTOLs). But, here's the thing: Internal Combustion Light Arrow IV Delivery System 25 tons Movement: 3/5 Front Armor: 5 Side Armor: 4 Rear Armor: 3 1 Arrow IV Missile System (no internal ammo storage) total cost: 676,563 Internal Combustion Basically Immobile Ultralight Arrow IV Delivery System 20 tons Movement: 1/2 Front Armor: 0 Side Armor: 0 Rear Armor: 0 1 Arrow IV Missile System (no internal ammo storage) total cost: 596,000 Arrow IV missile systems are cheaper. Arrow IV ammo is far more expensive than cannon shells, however. The value of a Long Tom is the simplicity of tube-launched ammo. Most planets can make ammo for a long tom. Very few can build the guidance systems for an Arrow IV. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Sep 27, 2011 |
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Sep 27, 2011 19:51
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PoptartsNinja posted:Yup, that's Shockwave. The Decepticon so terrible, Megatron left him behind. I always thought he was kinda cool, but completely overshadowed by Soundwave and Starscream.
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Sep 27, 2011 19:57
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Zeroisanumber posted:I always thought he was kinda cool, but completely overshadowed by Soundwave and Starscream. Soundwave was a total badass.
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Sep 27, 2011 20:02
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Delaying Action: Tactical Update 2 Movement Phase C* Grand Dragon - must pass a skidding test in hex 0331 (3 base + 1 unbalanced - 1 distance traveled = 3): rolled 4, succeeds! Enemy Forces / Next Turn’s Movement: Clan Assault walked 3 to hex 0504, Designates Clan Medium as ‘Ace’ Clan Heavy A 1 walked 3 to hex 0405 Clan Heavy A 2 walked 3 to hex 0605 Clan Heavy B walked 4 to hex 1408 Clan Medium Jumped 6 to hex 1410 “Enemy jumper on the ridge,” Satomi called. “It has a clear shot at us.” “Don’t worry,” Masaki laughed, “I recognize that one. Medium lasers—it’s out of range.” “Don’t be so sure, Chu-i.” Agaki countered. “These Clans can score hits at impossible ranges.” The radio crackled. Satomi again, “Tai-sa, that ‘Mech has changed since we last encountered it. The arms are different.” “Thorvaldsen, can you get me a visual?” A few moments later, the hunched, bird-like body of a Widowmaker Thunderchild stooped over a ridgeline. The boxy right arm ended in a large laser, slung like a pistol over the ‘Mech’s battle fist. The left arm ended in a cluster of missiles—certainly big enough to be an LRM 15, but it was difficult to make out over such a distance. Agaki would’ve sworn this was a different ‘Mech than the one that had accompanied ‘Star Colonel’ Joshua’s flanking maneuver, were it not for an identical patch on the ‘Mech’s left shin: ‘A3’ in a blood red star, large enough to break the ‘Mech’s bizarre black and red cammo patterns. “We didn’t damage that ‘Mech enough to force a field refit, did we?” Satomi asked in worried tones, “I know Luthien Maru never scored a hit on it.” “They can change their weapons on the fly,” Agaki breathed. He’d never imagined such a thing could be possible—it’d taken over two months to mount the Ivar’s gauss rifle; and the ‘Mech’s gyro still wasn’t able to compensate for the massive shift in the Grand Dragon’s center of gravity. That information alone would be worth more than his entire command, but with the communications blackout— “Be cautious,” he growled in frustration. “That ‘Mech is now a sniper.” Mission Objectives Destroy one Clan ‘Mech and All 13th Rasalhague ‘Mechs survive until Turn 15 (0/1, 4/4) OR Destroy three Clan ‘Mechs by Turn 20 (0/3) OR Destroy 1 Clan ‘Mech and at least one 13th Rasalhague ‘Mech escapes via the bottom map edge on or after turn 25 (0/1, 0/1) Secondary Objectives The Mobile Long-Tom Heavy Artillery escapes via the bottom map edge (0/1)    DRG-1Gs Grand Dragon "Ivar the Boneless" Weight: 60 tons (Heavy) HD A(S): 9/9 (3/3) LT A(S): 16/16 (14/14) LT R A(S): 8/8 CT A(S): 27/27 (20/20) CT R A(S): 12/12 RT A(S): 16/16 (14/14) RT R A(S): 8/8 LA A(S): 14/14 (10/10) RA A(S): 14/14 (10/10) LL A(S): 18/18 (14/14) RL A(S): 18/18 (14/14) Heat: 0/30 Overheat Penalty: None Heat Sinks: 10 Movement: 5/8/0 Mechwarrior: Pilot 3, Gunnery 2 Mechwarrior Name: Tai-sa Agaki Gunnbjorn Mechwarrior Player: Raverrn Mechwarrior Status: OK! Armament: Gauss Rifle – RA (Heat: 0, Ammo: 16, Range: (L:22 M:15 S:7 Min:2), Status: OK!) Medium Laser – RT (Heat: 3, Range: (L:9 M:6 S:3), Status: OK!) Medium Laser – LA (Heat: 3, Range: (L:9 M:6 S:3), Status: OK!) Critical Damage: None! Notes: +1 penalty to piloting skill rolls, 1 hand TDR-5K Thunderbolt Weight: 65 tons (Heavy) HD A(S): 9/9 (3/3) LT A(S): 22/22 (15/15) LT R A(S): 8/8 CT A(S): 32/32 (21/21) CT R A(S): 9/9 RT A(S): 22/22 (15/15) RT R A(S): 8/8 LA A(S): 20/20 (10/10) RA A(S): 20/20 (10/10) LL A(S): 29/29 (15/15) RL A(S): 29/29 (15/15) Heat: 0/30 Overheat Penalty: None Heat Sinks: 15 Movement: 4/6/4 Mechwarrior: Pilot 4, Gunnery 4 Mechwarrior Name: Chu-i Thorvaldsen Masaki Mechwarrior Player: Paragon1 Mechwarrior Status: OK! Armament: Large Laser – RA (Heat: 8, Range: (L:15 M:10 S:5), Status: OK!) Medium Laser – LT (Heat: 3, Range: (L:9 M:6 S:3), Status: OK!) Medium Laser – LT (Heat: 3, Range: (L:9 M:6 S:3), Status: OK!) Medium Laser – LT (Heat: 3, Range: (L:9 M:6 S:3), Status: OK!) LRM-15 – RT (Heat: 5, Ammo: 16, Range: (L:21 M:14 S:7 Min:6), Status: OK!) Critical Damage: None! Notes: 2 hands Partisan Heavy Tank Weight: 80 tons (Heavy) Front A(S): 22/22 (8/8) Left A(S): 18/18 (8/8) Right A(S): 18/18 (8/8) Turret A(S): 22/22 (8/8) Rear A(S): 16/16 (8/8) Movement: 3/5 Crew: Driving 5, Gunnery 4 Driver name: Lance Corporal Wulf Ingmar Player: Paragon1 Motive System Damage: None! Critical Damage: None! Armament: Armament: Autocannon/5 – Turret (Ammo: 40, Range: (L:18 M:12 S:6 Min:3), Status: OK!) Autocannon/5 – Turret (Ammo: -, Range: (L:18 M:12 S:6 Min:3), Status: OK!) Autocannon/5 – Turret (Ammo: -, Range: (L:18 M:12 S:6 Min:3), Status: OK!) Autocannon/5 – Turret (Ammo: -, Range: (L:18 M:12 S:6 Min:3), Status: OK!) Machine Gun – Front (Ammo: 100, Range: (L:3 M:2 S:1), Status: OK!) Machine Gun – Front (Ammo: -, Range: (L:3 M:2 S:1), Status: OK!) Notes: MAD-3K Marauder Weight: 75 tons (Heavy) HD A(S): 9/9 (3/3) LT A(S): 17/17 (16/16) LT R A(S): 8/8 CT A(S): 35/35 (23/23) CT R A(S): 10/10 RT A(S): 17/17 (16/16) RT R A(S): 8/8 LA A(S): 22/22 (12/12) RA A(S): 22/22 (12/12) LL A(S): 18/18 (16/16) RL A(S): 18/18 (16/16) Heat: 0/30 Overheat Penalty: None Heat Sinks: 20 Movement: 4/6/0 Mechwarrior: Pilot 4, Gunnery 4 Mechwarrior Name: Chu-I Eriksson Imperial Mechwarrior Player: cookieman Mechwarrior Status: OK! Armament: PPC – RA (Heat: 10, Range: (L:18 M:12 S:6 Min:3), Status: OK!) PPC – LA (Heat: 10, Range: (L:18 M:12 S:6 Min:3), Status: OK!) Large Laser – RT (Heat: 8, Range: (L:15 M:10 S:5), Status: OK!) Medium Laser – RA (Heat: 3, Range: (L:9 M:6 S:3), Status: OK!) Medium Laser – LA (Heat: 3, Range: (L:9 M:6 S:3), Status: OK!) Critical Damage: None! Notes: no hands River Monitor Luthien Maru Weight: 75 tons (Class) Front A(S): 22/22 (8/8) Left A(S): 22/22 (8/8) Right A(S): 22/22 (8/8) Turret A(S): 40/40 (8/8) Rear A(S): 22/22 (8/8) Movement: 3/5 Crew: Driving 5, Gunnery 4 Player: cookieman Driver name: Chu-I Hohiro Satomi Motive System Damage: None! Critical Damage: None! Armament: Autocannon/20 – Turret (Ammo: 15, Range: (L:9 M:6 S:3), Status: OK!) Autocannon/20 – Turret (Ammo: -, Range: (L:9 M:6 S:3), Status: OK!) SRM-2 – Right (Ammo: 50, Range: (L:9 M:6 S:3), Status: OK!) SRM-2 – Right (Ammo: -, Range: (L:9 M:6 S:3), Status: OK!) SRM-2 – Right (Ammo: -, Range: (L:9 M:6 S:3), Status: OK!) Notes: HBK-4G Hunchback Weight: 50 tons (Medium) HD A(S): 9/9 (3/3) LT A(S): 20/20 (12/12) LT R A(S): 4/4 CT A(S): 26/26 (16/16) CT R A(S): 5/5 RT A(S): 20/20 (12/12) RT R A(S): 4/4 LA A(S): 16/16 (8/8) RA A(S): 16/16 (8/8) LL A(S): 20/20 (12/12) RL A(S): 20/20 (12/12) Heat: 0/30 Overheat Penalty: None Heat Sinks: 13 Movement: 4/6/0 Mechwarrior: Pilot 4, Gunnery 4 Mechwarrior Name: Chu-i Luther Grist Mechwarrior Player: Tarquinn Mechwarrior Status: OK! Armament: Autocannon/20 – RT (Heat: 7, Ammo: 10, Range: (L:9 M:6 S:3), Status: OK!) Small Laser – HD (Heat: 1, Range: (L:3 M:2 S:1), Status: OK!) Medium Laser – RA (Heat: 3, Range: (L:9 M:6 S:3), Status: OK!) Medium Laser – LA (Heat: 3, Range: (L:9 M:6 S:3), Status: OK!) Critical Damage: None! Notes: 2 hands Manticore Heavy Tank Weight: 60 tons (Heavy) Front A(S): 42/42 (6/6) Left A(S): 33/33 (6/6) Right A(S): 33/33 (6/6) Turret A(S): 26/26 (6/6) Rear A(S): 42/42 (6/6) Movement: 4/6 Crew: Driving 4, Gunnery 3 Player: Tarquinn Driver name: Talon Sergeant Gene Rakoszky Motive System Damage: None! Critical Damage: None! Armament: PPC – Turret (Range: (L:18 M:12 S:6 Min:3), Status: OK!) LRM-10 – Turret (Ammo: 12, Range: (L:21 M:14 S:7 Min:6), Status: OK!) SRM-6 – Turret (Ammo: 15, Range: (L:9 M:6 S:3), Status: OK!) Medium Laser – Front (Range: (L:9 M:6 S:3), Status: OK!) Notes: LT-MOB-25 Mobile Long Tom Artillery Weight: 55 tons (Support Vehicle) Front A(S): 16/16 (6/6) Left A(S): 16/16 (6/6) Right A(S): 16/16 (6/6) Rear A(S): 16/16 (6/6) Movement: 2/3 Driver: Pilot 5, Gunnery 4 Support Vehicle Status: Armament: Long Tom Artillery – Front (Ammo: -, Range: (L:- M:- S:-), Status: OK!) Machine Gun – RS (Ammo: 200, Range: (L:3 M:2 S:1), Status: OK!) Machine Gun – RS (Ammo: -, Range: (L:3 M:2 S:1), Status: OK!) Machine Gun – LS (Ammo: -, Range: (L:3 M:2 S:1), Status: OK!) Machine Gun – LS (Ammo: -, Range: (L:3 M:2 S:1), Status: OK!) Notes: Enemy Status Clan Assault Weight: 90 tons (Assault) Overheat Penalty: None Movement: 4/6/0 Mechwarrior: Pilot 2, Gunnery 2 Mechwarrior Name: Star Colonel Joshua Mechwarrior Status: OK! Armament:Unknown Critical Damage: None! Notes: Clan Heavy A 1 Weight: 75 tons (Heavy) Overheat Penalty: None Movement: 5/8/0 Mechwarrior: Pilot 4, Gunnery 3 Mechwarrior Name: Mechwarrior Tara Mechwarrior Status: OK! Armament: Unknown Critical Damage: None! Notes: Clan Heavy A 2 Weight: 75 tons (Heavy) Overheat Penalty: None Movement: 5/8/0 Mechwarrior: Pilot 4, Gunnery 3 Mechwarrior Name: Mechwarrior Cameron Mechwarrior Status: OK! Armament: Unknown Critical Damage: None! Notes: Clan Heavy B Weight: 70 tons (Heavy) Overheat Penalty: None Movement: 5/8/5 Mechwarrior: Pilot 4, Gunnery 3 Mechwarrior Name: Mechwarrior Boers Mechwarrior Status: OK! Armament:Unknown Critical Damage: None! Notes: Thunderchild Weight: 50 tons (Medium) Overheat Penalty: None Movement: 6/9/6 Mechwarrior: Pilot 4, Gunnery 3 Mechwarrior Name: Mechwarrior Capella Mechwarrior Status: OK! Armament:Large Laser, unknown missile systems Critical Damage: None! Notes:
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Sep 27, 2011 21:10
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Yes, yes, everything is proceeding as I have foreseen it. 
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Sep 27, 2011 21:19
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PoptartsNinja posted:Artillery Ho! So yeah it turns out it really isn't cost effective to use mobile tube artillery over mobile rocket artilery (if you can make the rockets) which is what I'd expect to see. Props to Battletech for breaking my expectations and having mechanics match with reality. That said the 25 tonner's ability to be airlifted would be pretty handy for any planetary defense force that has quite a bit of 'low tech' industry (for making planes and guns) but isn't exactly flush with dropships or fusion engines. That said: here's hoping for the Luthien Maru to get a kill  ships
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Sep 27, 2011 21:19
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UberJew posted:So yeah it turns out it really isn't cost effective to use mobile tube artillery over mobile rocket artilery (if you can make the rockets) which is what I'd expect to see. Props to Battletech for breaking my expectations and having mechanics match with reality. I'd honestly take four Gustavs in an artillery lance. They're less expensive than Archers, are about as durable, and have a far greater effective range. Admittedly, they're less mobile than the Arrow IV catapult, but they can fire for a hell of a lot longer and don't require a TAG-equipped spotter to be mostly effective. They can also bombard non-stop with no heat build-up for 20 turns, which is pretty outstanding.
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Sep 27, 2011 21:27
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PoptartsNinja posted:I'd honestly take four Gustavs in an artillery lance. They're less expensive than Archers, are about as durable, and have a far greater effective range. Admittedly, they're less mobile than the Arrow IV catapult, but they can fire for a hell of a lot longer and don't require a TAG-equipped spotter to be mostly effective. On a mech it seems you have less artillery and more 'some of our MBTs have weapons with real range', operationally speaking.
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Sep 27, 2011 21:35
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Looks like our Grand Dragon is moving up to assume a sniping position on the ridge. The Marauder, with its large laser and ppcs, might consider doing the same. The boat, tanks, and hunchback should be engaging at close range around the edge of the woods, using the little rises as cover if possible. I don't think you guys can realistically hope to survive until turn 25, nor can you avoid losing any mechs until 15. Best to focus fire and aim at bringing down the opposing force's 3 lightest targets. D and E are obvious choices, especially if you can get them on their own. Man, this is going to be brutal. It seems PTN always feels a need to punish some goon pilots after a successful scenario. 
Vox Nihili fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Sep 27, 2011 |
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Sep 27, 2011 21:51
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Like the fluff suggests, the Thunderchild is probably outfitted with an LRM-15 rack attached to an Artemis IV FCS in addition to the ER Large Laser. Without knowing the exact loadout, I had to make guesses on the rest. 2 tons of LRM ammo, 2 ER Medium Lasers, 1 ER Small Laser, and a total of 17 DHSs.
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Sep 27, 2011 21:52
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Another Nova! Squeeeeeeee  KnoxZone posted:Also, at 6/9/6 that medium might actually be another Nova. if so, I hope it kills you all with little mercy. Sorry guys, but I am now rooting for this.
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Sep 27, 2011 22:45
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That 'mech is a little peculiar, let's see if PTN's given us a hint already.PoptartsNinja posted:Alternate-Universe 3032 TRO Entry 2 I bet the Nova is one of these, but I guess we could have some variant of the Thunderchild that Comstar hadn't seen yet. Judiging by the description, it's most likely the gamma, making this thing a bitch at pretty much any range, but especially dangerous up close. If it's the Epsilon, maybe with the arms swapped or something, it's a highly mobile long-to-medium range harasser. Once, again, it could be something new, so regardless, be careful. Octatonic fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Sep 27, 2011 |
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Sep 27, 2011 22:46
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Octatonic posted:That 'mech is a little peculiar, let's see if PTN's given us a hint already. The mech has a Large Laser, so it is most likely Gamma.
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Sep 27, 2011 22:49
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KnoxZone posted:The mech has a Large Laser, so it is most likely Gamma. Unless Star Colonel Joshua
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Sep 27, 2011 23:12
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I concur, it's likely a Gamma. Beware of SRMs to the face!
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Sep 27, 2011 23:12
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This is going to be so much fun for you all.
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Sep 27, 2011 23:15
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PoptartsNinja posted:Enemy Forces / Next Turn’s Movement: Just pointing that out. Be careful not to rush too far forward unless you're luring him this turn. Also, I bet the 70 tonner is getting Ace next turn if Joshua isn't engaged.
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Sep 27, 2011 23:33
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PoptartsNinja posted:Yup, that's Shockwave. The Decepticon so terrible, Megatron left him behind. Isn't he also the Decepticon who more or less conquered nearly all of Cybertron while Megatron was taking a 4 million year long nap because he just had to personally chase down Optimus Prime's ship? In other news, looking forward to seeing a Thunderchild possibly get to do something besides lose an arm and then kill a tank out of spite.
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Sep 27, 2011 23:43
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W.T. Fits posted:In other news, looking forward to seeing a Thunderchild possibly get to do something besides lose an arm and then kill a tank out of spite. Lose both arms 
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Sep 27, 2011 23:47
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W.T. Fits posted:Isn't he also the Decepticon who more or less conquered nearly all of Cybertron while Megatron was taking a 4 million year long nap because he just had to personally chase down Optimus Prime's ship? No, he's the Decepticon who refused to finish conquering Cybertron because Megatron told him to "leave Cybertron precisely the way I left it."
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Sep 28, 2011 00:01
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W.T. Fits posted:In other news, looking forward to seeing a Thunderchild possibly get to do something besides lose an arm and then kill a tank out of spite. Ah, Thunderchild, my old nemesis. We meet again.
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Sep 28, 2011 00:10
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PoptartsNinja posted:Arrow IV missile systems are cheaper. Arrow IV ammo is far more expensive than cannon shells, however. The value of a Long Tom is the simplicity of tube-launched ammo. Most planets can make ammo for a long tom. Very few can build the guidance systems for an Arrow IV. This is a really good point by Poptarts - if we're continuing the comparison to WWII artillery, Arrow IV's fill the role of 120MM mortars. They are accurate, fast firing, shorter range, responsive to lower level commands, easier to move and in all ways better than long range tube artillery. The problem is keeping them supplied, a 120MM mortar battery deploys much further forward than a 155MM tube artillery battery and can fire all its ammo off in about 2 seconds. As a result, they never have any ammo. Conversely a 155MM tube battery has a much longer range and can be parked somewhere trucks can get to it easily well back from the front line. The point of a tube long tom is to have it parked near a railhead where it can fire almost constantly. Cheaper ammo is a massive advantage for this. The point is not accurate fire, it's punting as many rounds downrange as you possibly can. The problem for the IS of course is that they cannot make Arrow IV systems (not rediscovered until 3044 in the 'offical' timeline), so they are stuck with tube artillery or bust.
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Sep 28, 2011 00:24
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For that purpose a battery that weighs a small enough amount to be airlifted but is still minimally self propelled is basically the holy grail so that second design of PTN's is pretty ideal. Especially since you could buy a hell of a lot of them for the price of one mech Capellan strategy itt
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Sep 28, 2011 00:38
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What's really interesting about this scenario is that in a traditional anti-insurgency, one of the counter-insurgent's best friends is air power. Both because it lets you deliver pain quickly, but also because it helps you find the other guys. "We do not fear the Russians, but we do fear their helicopters," as the Mujahideen used to say. Naturally, the Clans being the Clans, seem to have bid away their aerospace assets, which has let the 13th Rasalhague last as long as they have. Which is why this kind of warfare is perfect for slowing the invasion down. A Goon win here could be one of the more important ones we've made. Some things to note, here. First of all, since the Wolves got absorbed by the Widowmakers, Star Colonel Joshua is presumably the same guy as Joshua Wolf from the canon timeline. Therefore, if you kill him, his older brother Jamie is going to be pissed, which will almost certainly have consequences for someone... Secondly, the response to Joshua's demand for surrender is interesting. It seems to imply that the surviving members of the Rasalhague Regulars don't see themselves as working for the Combine anymore, so a win here may yet help bring about the Free Rasalhague Republic. Considering that the FRR was created in the original timeline to have a Inner Sphere nation that the Clans could destroy, to see the FRR get born from the Clan invasion would make for an excellent twist indeed!
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Sep 28, 2011 00:56
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UberJew posted:For that purpose a battery that weighs a small enough amount to be airlifted but is still minimally self propelled is basically the holy grail so that second design of PTN's is pretty ideal. Arrow batteries are shorter range and probably need to be able to move to facilitate running away, particularly if the oppo has air cover. I suspect the best artillery solution is not to use long toms though, you can make 4/6 fusion thumpers with actual armor and quite reasonable ammo storage for very cheap too. Then if you were going to fight with firepower doctrine style, you'd then want 18 or 36 tubes behind 36 Sphereoid mech. Which would be hilarious.
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Sep 28, 2011 01:10
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PoptartsNinja posted:No, he's the Decepticon who refused to finish conquering Cybertron because Megatron told him to "leave Cybertron precisely the way I left it." Also he can't shoot for poo poo. 
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Sep 28, 2011 01:19
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jng2058 posted:First of all, since the Wolves got absorbed by the Widowmakers, Star Colonel Joshua is presumably the same guy as Joshua Wolf from the canon timeline. Therefore, if you kill him, his older brother Jamie is going to be pissed, which will almost certainly have consequences for someone...
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Sep 28, 2011 02:27
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Arquinsiel posted:Jaime will be pissed? Worry about his girlfriend more, she's running this show. For those who are unaware, if that bit of canon survived in PTN's timeline, Joshua's girlfriend/lover is the Khan of Clan Widowmaker, Natasha Kerensky herself. Yeah.
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Sep 28, 2011 02:38
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I'm a bit baffled by the goonlance's actions. What's the goal here? They don't seem to be concentrating to fight a divided enemy. Also, on the artillery discussion, it should be noted that although the US has largely sought alternatives (or, optionally, not actually had to fight an enemy with effective tube artillery support in some time) you can elect to fight a counterbattery duel. From the standpoint of a militia commander fighting invaders, that probably makes the most sense. The enemy will have to devote most of his/her dropship space to mechs, so any counterbattery phase will inevitably favor the combatant with more tubes (well, as long as they can make shots land where they want.) Shoot and scoot is a neat idea for advanced capabilities, but if I were a militia commander I'd be most concerned with being able to concentrate as much firepower as possible at the critical point. I'm going to be facing a disadvantage in terms of staying power and tactical maneuverability, and they enemy will be bringing higher quality guns to the fight. The best I can hope for is strategic movement for my artillery, which can then offset my firepower disadvantage. Mechs are like the ultimate in blitzkreig machines. I accept that tactically, they're going to tear me a new one. The Americans in WWII didn't try to match the Germans in heavy tanks (though they could have tried to.) Instead, they built a lot of M4's, avoided tank on tank combat, and put big goddamn guns on wheels (tank destroyers) to go blow up tigers when they'd run out of steam. Artillery isn't the same thing, but in the real world artillery isn't the greatest at taking out armor. BT artillery seems to fare better against mechs.
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Sep 28, 2011 02:38
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landcollector posted:For those who are unaware, if that bit of canon survived in PTN's timeline, Joshua's girlfriend/lover is the Khan of Clan Widowmaker, Natasha Kerensky herself. Yeah. I'm pretty sure that is the 'New Turtle Bay' outcome I so dearly want. quote:Also, on the artillery discussion, it should be noted that although the US has largely sought alternatives (or, optionally, not actually had to fight an enemy with effective tube artillery support in some time) you can elect to fight a counterbattery duel. From the standpoint of a militia commander fighting invaders, that probably makes the most sense. The enemy will have to devote most of his/her dropship space to mechs, so any counterbattery phase will inevitably favor the combatant with more tubes (well, as long as they can make shots land where they want.) Given the state of Battletech warfare, I suspect it's reasonable to assume that CB will be running at low levels of effectiveness. CB radar is not something that features anywhere and is probably LosTech. You can probably just ignore the remote chance of actually getting CB'ed by anything. The real reason you want mechanisation of your artillery is because it's going to need to drive around in theatre a lot due to short ranges and :battletech: total mechanisation of your force. Towed guns would probbly be fine, but are their even rules for those?
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Sep 28, 2011 02:54
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Arquinsiel posted:Jaime will be pissed? Worry about his girlfriend more, she's running this show. I'd actually forgotten that part, but Jaime did lead the assault that broke the back of Anton Marik's forces in revenge for Joshua's death. Though I think they said at one point that Natasha was the one who actually killed Anton, come to think of it.
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Sep 28, 2011 02:59
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Centurium posted:I'm a bit baffled by the goonlance's actions. What's the goal here? They don't seem to be concentrating to fight a divided enemy. Agreed. The Marauder needs to be with the rest of the lance. In theory you could park in the woods and aim down the roadway across the river, but I'm not convinced the Marauder is fast enough to extricate itself when the Clan heavies show up.
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Sep 28, 2011 02:59
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jng2058 posted:I'd actually forgotten that part, but Jaime did lead the assault that broke the back of Anton Marik's forces in revenge for Joshua's death. Though I think they said at one point that Natasha was the one who actually killed Anton, come to think of it. I actually have a PDF of the graphic novel/scenario book for this - The Spider And The Wolf. I'd post it, but it's potential  . It's never been officially given a free release, but it's also been out of print for 25 years.
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Sep 28, 2011 03:12
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That's kinda the idea behind US armored doctrine in WWII. Not so much the reality where on the offensive, M4s were often used to fight other tanks because the TDs weren't mobile enough to be deployed effectively, and even then, they were armed pretty anemically to fight against late war German tanks.
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Sep 28, 2011 03:23
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Der Waffle Mous posted:That's kinda the idea behind US armored doctrine in WWII. Not so much the reality where on the offensive, M4s were often used to fight other tanks because the TDs weren't mobile enough to be deployed effectively, and even then, they were armed pretty anemically to fight against late war German tanks. They had a lot of tubes behind an offensive though, converting it to BT by eyeballing it is a thumper per mech. Which would make for hilarious offensive and defensive actions against the clans. Can you imagine the rage? Particularly given that 'running away' is deemed 'unfair' I can only imagine the response to one infantry dude hiding in a bush calling the hammer down.
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Sep 28, 2011 03:37
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:Can you imagine the rage? Particularly given that 'running away' is deemed 'unfair' I can only imagine the response to one infantry dude hiding in a bush calling the hammer down. "I bid a trinary, all of Firemoth D mechs." "Accepted. Specific orders?" "Zell is off. Kill the fuckers dead."
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Sep 28, 2011 03:44
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Cythereal posted:"I bid a trinary, all of Firemoth D mechs." And that's what minefields are for. God I love FASCAM rounds.
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Sep 28, 2011 04:07
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Cythereal posted:"I bid a trinary, all of Firemoth D mechs." If the IS is waving around artillery up the wazoo, I imagine they've defaulted to total war, in which case this angry response has a pretty solid chance of playing straight into a savvy IS commander's hands. If he's aware this is a probable response (and really, light mechs straight down the guts is the probable response), and the angry clanners decide on the 'subtle' approach of shoving the 15 firemoths straight down the middle, it shouldn't take much to put together a defence in depth ambush and/or minefield to wreck the firemoths. 2 tons of armor isn't much if you can land a hit. That is assuming you can hit them - which is always going to be an issue. A star of firemoths coming over the ridgeline and running straight into SRM carriers and the like is always going to be super dangerous for them. If artillery firing over open sights ignores movement penalties as implied above, then it's going to be REALLY dangerous for them. If you have a minefield on top and just over the ridge line at some natural chokepoints (i.e. between forests/difficult terrain), the first star of firemoths are going to explode - of course a savvy Clanner is going to send something different but the same ambush is still good. Cthulhu Dreams fucked around with this message at 04:34 on Sep 28, 2011 |
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Sep 28, 2011 04:20
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