Lets All Play Battletech and rewrite Inner Sphere history

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Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

PoptartsNinja posted:

An Infantryman�s Small Arms Primer:

Little bit of clarification on this.

The Zeus is really closer to something chambered in .338 Lapua or even 7.62 when you compare its damage to support MGs. Infantry weapons have a much better 'this makes sense' bit to them compared to Battletech weapons due to changes in game balance.

For example, a Medium Laser in Battletech has a range of 9 hexes or 270 meters. The MW version of it, the Heavy Support Laser, has a range of over a kilometer.

They also provide a conversion system of BT -> MW (and back again) that is klunky at best and completely insane at worst. Basically if you follow it:

LRMs are things that can be easily scoffed at by infantry wearing basic body armor
<REDACTED> can be easily one-shot by Inner Sphere large lasers (They would still hurt in BT, but they <REDACTED> would be alive) but they could soak up medium lasers all day.

So instead it's generally a good idea to use the MW equivalent weapons in the game (And throw in your own to flesh stuff out more)

Vibrokatanas are not as stupid in the actual rules (They're mainly vibro-swords with a slight accuracy bonus) and can cut through most normal armor with ease but none of the vibro-weapons are well-suited against most power armor.

The I-beam through the gauss rifle was sold as being a 'one-time' thing, which is pretty much true. The damage was excessive (as most Stackpole things are), but then again I doubt the doors were heavily armored.

Normal laser pistols/rifles are around (pulse variants are rare, not unheard of) and akin to the pistol picture earlier there's also the "Blazer" variant, which is literally two laser pistols/rifles tied together to fire as one. This was something else that changed along with the previously mentioned jumpship change in the thread.

Amusingly enough, the Draconis Combine eventually introduces a disposable pulse laser for use against <REDACTED>. It's akin to a LAW, but with LAZARZ. Squeeze trigger, empty charge, discard smoldering tube.

Side Note: Lasers in Mechwarrior are quiet weapons. No Pew Pew when shot.

Taerkar fucked around with this message at 02:10 on May 4, 2011

# ¿ May 3, 2011 22:32

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 21:34

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

Preechr posted:

And when the writer isn't Stackpole, they're usually invisible, too.

Yeah, which is even more insane.

# ¿ May 4, 2011 00:45

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

Polaron posted:

Taerkar, might want to edit that post to remove references to LP spoilers.

Que?

# ¿ May 4, 2011 01:52

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

Ah, got it.

# ¿ May 4, 2011 01:56

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

Gauss Rifles are one of the better known weapons in the setting thanks to the various games.

Didn't really think there would be an issue since I was dealing with infantry stuff, but <REDACTED> weren't something I really considered too much.

# ¿ May 4, 2011 02:20

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

Zaodai posted:

For all the flak Stackpole gets, I genuinely enjoyed most of his Battletech books as a kid.

He wasn't a bad writer (though I wouldn't count on seeing him win a Pulitzer anytime soon), he just didn't really make sure everything made sense in context of the rest of the universe.

Stackpole is at least functional, a lot of the other Battletech writers are like many of the Black Library writers for Warhammer 40k, namely the reason why book snobs look down upon Sci-Fi.

# ¿ May 4, 2011 16:28

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

Yeah, Abnett's perhaps the best 40k writer and, since he knows what he's doing, is a poet with the written word compared to most of them (Gav Thorpe, I'm looking at you).

Almost anything involving Space Marines range from cringe-worthy to 'I can't unsee the horror'.

Imagine if almost every Battletech book was Jeremiah Rose or Far Country.

I think it's part of what makes Stackpole look good, a lot of the rest of the field is just plain terrible.

# ¿ May 4, 2011 16:50

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

Ah yes, The Von-Luckner, the tank with the rear-mounted LRM rack. Seriously, wtf.

Fluff-wise it fires over the turret and the model has it pointed forward, but rules-wise it shoots over the back of the tank

# ¿ May 5, 2011 00:57

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

If your `Mechs blow up when you die the answer is obvious.

Someone WALK INTO THE NIGHTCLUB.

# ¿ May 5, 2011 01:39

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

Also in Cain's favor, he's actually pretty competent at certain things and, for being a commissar, he's a decent guy.

vvvvv Yeah, I just found that too. It's worse than we thought. Look at his other works.

Taerkar fucked around with this message at 19:09 on May 5, 2011

# ¿ May 5, 2011 19:05

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

Well, there's a couple of reasons.

The first, of course, is Fluff vs Rules

But then there's range considerations, quite a lot of the official designs carry more weapons than they can control the heat for, but they typically have complementary ranges. For example LRMs are often backed up by medium lasers, pulse weapons paired with ER variants, and so on. As you close you switch to other weapons that are more efficient.

Some designs have a bit of redundancy built into them as well while for others the overlap are 'weapons to use while you're shedding heat'

And some designs are Riflemen. But to be fair, as AA `Mechs, they're pretty much Alpha-Alpha-Cool down for four turns, so it kinda makes sense.

Kinda.

# ¿ May 6, 2011 03:47

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

Well the C is doubly absurd because of the Targeting Computer + Pulse Laser combination. And when those pulses are Clan LPLs, ouchie.

vvv Also it means that the Warhawk doesn't have the potential weakness of the awesome, which is approaching it from the direction that it can't shoot/shoot as much.

# ¿ May 6, 2011 03:53

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

Yeah, all Warhawks carry Targeting Computers. It was the most notable feature of the design.

# ¿ May 6, 2011 03:56

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

The Charger and the Banshee are two good examples of why you don't make fast assaults with lvl 1 tech equipment. Both of them become pretty decent when you tone the engine down (CGR-SB and BNC-3S)

# ¿ May 6, 2011 04:28

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

I... that... I... melee... just... what?

Okay, I'm better now. My mind has purged any concept that.

So... when are you going to do chapter 12?

# ¿ May 7, 2011 03:18

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

The Warrior trilogy is also worth reading to see why Hanse Davion is called The Fox.

# ¿ May 9, 2011 18:50

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

I think the most 'entertaining' part of this is trying to figure out what was the author's intent with each chapter.

# ¿ May 10, 2011 16:20

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

Everyone is writing a page without seeing what the other pages are, maybe.

Also I propose a new thing to track:

Punches made by `Mechs that shouldn't be punching.

# ¿ May 10, 2011 17:06

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

Gauss Rifles are one of the few weapons where the IS has anything close to parity with the Clans. It's bigger, sure, but it does the same damage and has the same range.

# ¿ May 10, 2011 18:29

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

PoptartsNinja posted:

Plus, the Valkyrie is the only 'Mech that can chip away at the Von Luckner with any amount of safety, and it'd have to expend most of its ammo to do so. Everyone else would have to dip into long range where a single lucky hit could spell disaster. The Von Luckner is my favorite tank of the era--it's not the best, but as an anvil and/or area denial weapon, it excels.

In all honesty, you should probably be more worried about the Griffin.

Yeah, the Von Luckner and the Manticore combine together to make a drat scary combination in lvl 1 play. I honestly prefer the pre-refit Mantie to the 3058 refit of it. Replacing the PPC with a LPL doesn't make much sense.

# ¿ May 12, 2011 23:31

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

Dominus Caedis posted:

Thats why you take the Manticore's baby brother, the Myrmidon in 3060: PPC, SRM6 and 5/8 while still carrying...(hastily checks TRO 3060)... 9 tons of armor and its quite a bit cheaper in tonnage, BV or C-Bills.

Yeah. the Myrm is a nice pocket Manty, but the original Manticore has a great complementary weapons arrangement. SRM-6, Medium Laser, PPC, and LRM-10. It's got something for all ranges.

Edit:

Just checked, the 3026 -> 3058 changes are:

PPC -> LPL
Med Laser -> SSRM-2
Artemis IV for the SRM-6 and LRM-10
3 points more armor (less tonnage, but FF)

Really if they had left the PPC in it would be a bit more vicious. The SSRM-2 is an interesting swap-off for the medium laser.

Taerkar fucked around with this message at 00:36 on May 13, 2011

# ¿ May 13, 2011 00:32

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

PoptartsNinja posted:

The Large Pulse Laser (an infighting weapon) fills the same role in Level 2 play as the PPC did in Level 1 (it was also an 'infighting' weapon). The ER PPC graduated into the same category as LRMs and Autocannon 2s (sniping / long range harassment) in Level 2 play.

Eh, in level 1 play the PPC was pretty much a one-size-fits-all weapon that was useful from short (but not point-blank) range to 'long' range for the time. It was only out-ranged by LRMs (by 3 hexes) or AC-2s (Who cares?) and the minimum range was the sweet spot for SRMs and Medium Lasers.

The LPL has almost half the range and less damage. It's significantly better from 1-3 due to the PPC's minimum range penalty. From 4-6 it's got an equal chance to hit, a better chance at 7, equal from 8-10, then out of range from 11 to 18.

# ¿ May 13, 2011 01:09

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

Fair enough.

IMO the MPL and SPL for the IS are decent weapons (As much as a small laser is decent for anything), but the LPL is terrible.

For those that don't know, the Clan versiTons of the Pulse Lasers have 2x the range of the IS version and for the large and medium versions do 1 more damage as well (Though the IS versions of the Medium and Large do 1 more damage than the standard lasers as well). The Clan LPL is 1 ton smaller as well, but the others are the same size.

Ranges:

Small Standard 1/2/3
Small Pulse 1/2/3
Clan Small Pulse 2/4/6
IS ER Small 2/4/5
Clan ER Small 2/4/6

Medium Standard 3/6/9
Medium Pulse 2/4/6
Clan Medium Pulse 4/8/12
IS ER Medium 4/8/12
Clan ER Medium 5/10/15

Large Standard 5/10/15
Large Pulse 3/7/10
Clan Large Pulse 6/14/20
IS ER Large 7/14/19
Clan ER Large 8/15/25

To put it simply the Clan LPL is bullshit. Absolute bullshit.

# ¿ May 13, 2011 01:39

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

Ugh, don't even get me started on the Heavy weapons.

# ¿ May 13, 2011 02:44

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

W.T. Fits posted:

I thought that was the point of Clan tech in general. Got something relatively awesome? The Clans get it with half the weight, twice the power, and none of the drawbacks.

A lot of Clan weapons are better but the most glaring examples are ER Medium Lasers, LPLs, and missile racks. (Though they don't get the awesome insanity of MRMs).

# ¿ May 13, 2011 05:01

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

Defiance Industries posted:

And ER PPCs. You want an example, look at the Hellstar.

True, but at least the IS ER PPC has a similar range to the Clan one. The 5 damage difference is big, but I've killed more than a few `Mechs with a single IS ER PPC to the head thanks to the crit roll.

The stuff that comes in after the 3060 update (ER Meds/Smalls, MRMs, alternative LBX/UAC sizes) is a grab-bag of good and terrible (Not that everything before that point was good *glares at Heavy Lasers*)

Alternative AC ammo, RACs? Pretty good. X-Pulse, ehhh... Plasma cannons/PPC variants/Etc, what?

# ¿ May 13, 2011 16:09

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

KnoxZone posted:

The mission objective says to not damage any home guard mech. Tanks are not mechs.

Blow up the Von Luckner, die trying, or both.

Loki agent spotted!

# ¿ May 15, 2011 19:42

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

Oh hell, add me to the pilot list. I'll pull OpFor duty too in megamek if needed.

# ¿ May 15, 2011 19:51

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

Affi posted:

Rupert Murdoch founded Loki fyi

Close, but you were off a little. And Loki is pretty capable at manipulating the news.

# ¿ May 16, 2011 15:59

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

Battletech assumes that the damage is being done through the movement phase so he's being shot at while he jumped. And techincally he blew up in midair anyways so anything that hit the train would be bits and pieces.

Of course we refererred to DFAs as Darwin Award entries.

# ¿ May 18, 2011 16:06

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

Wait... the explosion did 40 damage to the train? Doesn't that mean it has less than 40 damage remaining?

# ¿ May 18, 2011 19:34

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

How did that one mech both spot and shoot in the same turn? Did they change that aspect of the rules?

Also, did anyone do a write-up on Omnimechs?

# ¿ May 19, 2011 16:28

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

On the theory and design behind them, fluff-wise, and how they're implemented into the rules. Not specifics about any given model.

# ¿ May 19, 2011 18:38

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

Anything involving the Jihad should be ignored. ComStar having regiments that they pulled together from the warehouses on Terra and SLDF stocks that they had the records for? Especially after a few centuries? Understandable.

WoB having enough stuff to subjugate and destroy a lot of the Inner Sphere? Highly unlikely.

Also it completely ignored that Outreach is probably one of the most heavily armed planets in the Sphere. At any given time there's at least a couple of Regiments of Wolf Dragoons there, not to mention all of the assorted partial mercenary commands hanging about before their next job.

# ¿ May 20, 2011 16:22

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

IIRC they've redone a lot of the old cooling vest/neurohelmet stuff to be a lot more practical.

# ¿ May 20, 2011 16:35

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

Iridium posted:

I can actually top that. In the early stages of the thread a bunch of us started playing MegaMek. We had one round where I was the first or second mech destroyed, but the pilot survived. I kept him meandering around the field taking potshots with a laser rifle until towards the end. Actually took down a mech (would have been medium or heavy, probably the former) with my rifle and a lucky critical ammo explosion. Out of a field of 8, in spite of being violently dispossessed very early on, I ended up lasting until it was just me versus the final mech.

Who, needless to say, atomized me without a second thought. Still, luckiest moment ever in that game.

Perhaps the 2nd game of Battletech that I ever played had a Crusader happen upon a platoon of rifle infantry 1 hex away. Fire from the Crusader killed 27 of the 28 guys.

Last guy? TAC through the CT to set off the SRM ammo there. Kablooie.

# ¿ May 21, 2011 04:23

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

Gonna throw my vote in for A because seriously, Dr. Banzai with the core. So Helm then New Avalon.

Edit: A, not E.

Taerkar fucked around with this message at 07:35 on May 22, 2011

# ¿ May 22, 2011 03:40

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

Not only is A ComGuards, but they're also going against the Hell's Horses. Because who doesn't want to fight tanks with 2 Gauss Rifles and a Targeting Computer?

# ¿ May 24, 2011 06:06

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

Technically the Hell's Horses totem mech is the Thunder Stallion, which is a 85 ton quad with an LB-20X and 4 LRM-15 racks.

I'll make my post on Omnimechs soon, mainly focused around the designs introduced in 3050.

Edit: Oh, and for those that aren't aware, the Lola III is a Destroyer, CHH has two per the fluff, the CHH Gold Knight and the CHH Red Knight.

Taerkar fucked around with this message at 16:40 on May 25, 2011

# ¿ May 25, 2011 16:30

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 21:34

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

Tempest_56 posted:

Doubly so for those not familiar with the universe - there's three sorts of *ships.

Dropships are the only ones that are atmosphere-capable. They usually ferry troops from orbit to ground, and are sometimes used as light carriers or super-heavy fighters themselves. No dropship has interstellar capabilities, and are usually only lightly armed and armored. They normally mass between 1,500 and 10,000 tons, with the most extreme outlier being the 100,000 ton Behemoth.

Jumpships are mostly unarmed interstellar ships, designed primarily to carry dropships from star to star. They are rarely armed and only lightly armored, usually being considered non-combatants. They range in size from 90,000 tons to 380,000 tons and carry anywhere between 1 and 9 dropships.

Warships are a jumpship that is designed for, well, war. They are extremely rare and ridiculously expensive - and also obscenely deadly. A small warship - a corvette - will mass between 150,000 and 250,000 tons.

The Fox class corvette clocks in at 240,000 tons, costs $16 billion, carries 5 dropships, packs 26 captial-class weapons (each more than ten times as powerful as the mech-scale equivalent), and is armored by almost 400 tons of armor.
The closest equivalent jumpship, the Star Lord, is unarmed, has no armor and costs $750 million.

To build onto this more, Dropships come in two different configurations and three (technically four) different classifications.

Dropships are either Spheroid or Aerodyne, the latter meaning roughly plane-like. This affects their firing arcs and hit tables (Spheroids do not have wings, for example) and can affect how they handle gravity. There are a few dropships that cannot enter atmosphere, for example.

They are classified as Civilian (Like cargo transports, though liners do exist, namely the Monarch class), Military, or Assault. Assault dropships are military dropships with limited/no `mech/vehicle/aerofighter capacity but instead carry extra guns and armor to escort dropships and engage enemy dropships. There are a few carrier dropships such as the Vengance (which is also an Aerodyne that cannot enter the atmosphere) which I believe holds 36 fighters.

Of interesting note is the distinction of 'obsolete' designs for dropships. This stems from before they had established construction rules for dropships so they kinda just threw stuff together. This meant that the designs didn't properly mesh up with the newly implemented rules and thus were typically illegal. Sometimes they would be underweight while other times they would be overweight. TRO 3057 updated most of these designs and greatly improved the graphics for some of them.

quote:

Our plucky Union in this scenario is 3,600 tons, has no capital-class weapons and minimal armor.
The Lola III we see here is a destroyer, weighing in at 678,000 tons and a cost of $1.9 trillion. The armor and firepower are double that of the Fox. Including the Naval equivalent of 12 large lasers, 16 Naval AC10s and 7 Naval-class missile launchers, all of which will instantly destroy the Union if they hit.

Actually, the Union could survive a hit or two, but that's about it. It wouldn't survive a broadside. It's armor is 18/18/10 (Naval scale).

AtomikKrab posted:

OH right, nukes are legal in a space fight, as long as you are... over 75k kilometers from a planets surface the ares conventions allows you to use nukes against warships.

One of the last operational warships in the Inner Sphere was destroyed by a nuke, a Davy Crockett if I remember correctly. And by operational I mean not held by ComStar

Taerkar fucked around with this message at 19:06 on May 25, 2011

# ¿ May 25, 2011 19:04

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Let's Play! > Lets All Play Battletech and rewrite Inner Sphere history

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