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Dingwick
May 3, 2007

This is always the highlight of my day.


So after a lot of thinking and trepidation, I've decided to give myself an audio makeover. I live in a smallish apartment and the living area is only 17'x20' so I've been going back and forth about whether or not to get a soundbar or a 2.1 setup. Going by price hasn't helped because good soundbars cost as much or more than normal speakers and a receiver.

The specific items I've been looking at are an AVR-S750H with Klipsch R-51-Ms, Elac B6.2s, or Dali Spektor 2s since those all come up pretty frequently in review roundups. For the sub, I was looking at the Klipsch R-100SW, or possibly the SVS SB-1000 Pro if I decide to splurge. Money is a factor and I'd like to spend less than $1,300 if possible. I know the proof of the speaker is in the listening but there aren't any demos near me so I'm leaning on y'all to point me in the right direction.

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TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007



Toebone posted:

I snagged that $350 Denon receiver at Costco, so at least that's taken care of.

I stopped by the local electronics places but one didn't have any demo units set up and the other didn't have anything under $800. I think I've just got to roll the dice online.

Crutchfield has an excellent return policy for bookshelf speakersó basically $10 a box. SVS does free returns. I donít know about some of the other companies, but buying online is pretty low risk these days.

qirex
Feb 15, 2001



Yeah, direct companies like SVS, Q Acoustics, Ascend, Aperion, Hsu, etc. all have good return policies.

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007



qirex posted:

Yeah, direct companies like SVS, Q Acoustics, Ascend, Aperion, Hsu, etc. all have good return policies.

And/or they often have 14/30/60/90 day trial policies

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007



Moving next month, trying to figure out a sound setup for this living room, know very little about sound setups. With the amount of space and the way it's distributed, I don't like our chances of fitting speakers, so I guess do what they did and mount a soundbar under the TV, just a little further down so it doesn't also block the TV? Or is there a better/smarter way to do things?

Hippie Hedgehog
Feb 19, 2007

Ever cuddled a hedgehog?

disaster pastor posted:

Moving next month, trying to figure out a sound setup for this living room, know very little about sound setups. With the amount of space and the way it's distributed, I don't like our chances of fitting speakers, so I guess do what they did and mount a soundbar under the TV, just a little further down so it doesn't also block the TV? Or is there a better/smarter way to do things?

Is there any way in the world to bring that TV down about a foot? Maybe some kind of articulating mount that swings down? Like https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Fi...18861797&sr=8-8

You're gonna have neck pains and dry eyes from looking up that high for extended periods.

Oh, you were asking about the sound? Well, first things first.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007



Hippie Hedgehog posted:

Is there any way in the world to bring that TV down about a foot? Maybe some kind of articulating mount that swings down? Like https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Fi...18861797&sr=8-8

You're gonna have neck pains and dry eyes from looking up that high for extended periods.

Oh, you were asking about the sound? Well, first things first.

Yeah, ideally, it's not going to be that high. I'm not sure how close it should be to the fireplace, but I'd certainly like it to be closer than that.

Hippie Hedgehog
Feb 19, 2007

Ever cuddled a hedgehog?

disaster pastor posted:

Yeah, ideally, it's not going to be that high. I'm not sure how close it should be to the fireplace, but I'd certainly like it to be closer than that.

I'd say it should be down in front of it for viewing. Hence the articulated mount.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007



Hippie Hedgehog posted:

I'd say it should be down in front of it for viewing. Hence the articulated mount.

Looking at articulated mounts now, so I'll revise my question. Should I get one with a soundbar mount as well, or do I have better options for sound in that space?

Wasabi the J
Jan 23, 2008


They also make fireplace or pulldown mounts so that the tv can be brought down for viewing or up for space.

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007



That room looks very space constrained, and I really think that youíd be better off with a sound bar mounted to the bottom of the tv. Even something basic like a Yamaha YAS-108 will be a huge improvement over the tv speakers, and trying to work even tiny bookshelf speakers into that room feels like it would be a nightmare. And while that could change based on your furniture and layout, for casual tv and music watching sound bars are surprisingly competent these days.

falz
Jan 29, 2005

01100110 01100001 01101100 01111010


disaster pastor posted:

Moving next month, trying to figure out a sound setup for this living room, know very little about sound setups. With the amount of space and the way it's distributed, I don't like our chances of fitting speakers, so I guess do what they did and mount a soundbar under the TV, just a little further down so it doesn't also block the TV? Or is there a better/smarter way to do things?

I would go insane with those wires just dangling and the vertical part of the mount showing all the time.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007



Sounds like soundbar on a pulldown TV mount is the way to go. Thanks!

falz posted:

I would go insane with those wires just dangling and the vertical part of the mount showing all the time.

Yeah, my ideas about cable management are very different from the previous owners'. The mount visibility, though, not sure much can be done about that.

vanilla slimfast
Dec 6, 2006

If anyone needs me, I'll be in the Angry Dome




Hi all, looking for a bit of advice. Last year I upgraded our TV to an LG OLED C9, but have stuck with my ancient Onkyo 606 based home theater in a box 5.1 setup. This requires running an optical connection from the TV to the receiver, and limits me to only older audio formats like AC3/DTS. On top of that, we routinely have challenges with balancing the audio levels between speakers as well (namely the center channel), even after doing the audessey room tuning and further tweaking the center channel gain. The speakers that came with the HTIB are pretty small and are all basically identical to each other, so it's not that surprising. I bought the HTIB cheap, refurbished direct from Onkyo uh....13 years ago? It's doing the new TV a disservice, so I think it's finally time to upgrade.

Relevant details:

* Two sources currently: Apple TV 4K for tv and movies, and a Nintendo Switch. Would like to have the flexibility to hook up my PC and make use of variable refresh rate. Might eventually get a PS5 as well, idk
* In terms of the current speaker placement, the seating area is effectively 7' wide and about 10' distance from the screen to the couch. The real kicker is that the ceilings are very low (80", or a bit less than 7 feet) as this is in the basement of a 100-year old house.

Questions for y'all regarding getting a new AVR and speakers:

* I'd like to do a 5.1.2 atmos setup, but don't know if the low ceilings would negate some of the effectiveness of this? I'd be doing up-firing presence speakers, not looking to do in-wall or in-ceiling installs
* I have a Costco membership, and the Yamaha TSR-700 (rebadged RX-V6A) for $400 seems like a screaming deal. It checks all the feature checkboxes, can support Dolby Vision/HDR, eARC, VRR, tons of inputs, etc, and does Atmos 5.1.2. Is there any reason not to pull the trigger on this now?
* For speakers, I don't have a firm budget but would want to keep it reasonable (under $2k for sure). Looking for mid-range options, focusing on good quality sound at low-to-mid volume as most of the time we are watching tv when our daughter is asleep upstairs.
* As much as I love the idea of floor-standers for the fronts, i worry that would be kind of a waste?

Appreciate any and all advice!

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007



vanilla slimfast posted:

Hi all, looking for a bit of advice. Last year I upgraded our TV to an LG OLED C9, but have stuck with my ancient Onkyo 606 based home theater in a box 5.1 setup. This requires running an optical connection from the TV to the receiver, and limits me to only older audio formats like AC3/DTS. On top of that, we routinely have challenges with balancing the audio levels between speakers as well (namely the center channel), even after doing the audessey room tuning and further tweaking the center channel gain. The speakers that came with the HTIB are pretty small and are all basically identical to each other, so it's not that surprising. I bought the HTIB cheap, refurbished direct from Onkyo uh....13 years ago? It's doing the new TV a disservice, so I think it's finally time to upgrade.

Relevant details:

* Two sources currently: Apple TV 4K for tv and movies, and a Nintendo Switch. Would like to have the flexibility to hook up my PC and make use of variable refresh rate. Might eventually get a PS5 as well, idk
* In terms of the current speaker placement, the seating area is effectively 7' wide and about 10' distance from the screen to the couch. The real kicker is that the ceilings are very low (80", or a bit less than 7 feet) as this is in the basement of a 100-year old house.

Questions for y'all regarding getting a new AVR and speakers:

* I'd like to do a 5.1.2 atmos setup, but don't know if the low ceilings would negate some of the effectiveness of this? I'd be doing up-firing presence speakers, not looking to do in-wall or in-ceiling installs
* I have a Costco membership, and the Yamaha TSR-700 (rebadged RX-V6A) for $400 seems like a screaming deal. It checks all the feature checkboxes, can support Dolby Vision/HDR, eARC, VRR, tons of inputs, etc, and does Atmos 5.1.2. Is there any reason not to pull the trigger on this now?
* For speakers, I don't have a firm budget but would want to keep it reasonable (under $2k for sure). Looking for mid-range options, focusing on good quality sound at low-to-mid volume as most of the time we are watching tv when our daughter is asleep upstairs.
* As much as I love the idea of floor-standers for the fronts, i worry that would be kind of a waste?

Appreciate any and all advice!

Your choice in receiver is sound and correct.

Your budget for speakers is good. How big of a room are you looking to fill? Whatís the distance from you to the TV?

Do you have any space constraints (built-ins, partial walls, doors, etc) that might affect the size or placement of your speakers? Do you have a good amount of room on either side of the TV and behind the couch?

Any aesthetic preferences? Finishes? Colors? Things to avoid? Like a vintage look? Cinema look? Sleek and modern? Wood veneer? Worried about kids or pets damaging poo poo? What color walls?

Floorstanders are almost always worth it if the alternative is bookshelf speakers on stands. If youíre constrained by a shelving unit or a large tv cabinet or whatever and youíre gonna put bookshelves on top of it or whatever then I get it, but otherwise definitely go with floorstanders for fronts unless your room is super small.

vanilla slimfast
Dec 6, 2006

If anyone needs me, I'll be in the Angry Dome




Thanks for responding quickly!

Ok Comboomer posted:

Your choice in receiver is sound and correct.

Thanks for the gut check on that. Probably just going to go ahead and order this as I can make use of it immediately even as i noodle on the speaker choices

quote:

Your budget for speakers is good. How big of a room are you looking to fill? Whatís the distance from you to the TV?

Distance to the TV is about 10.5 feet or so. The effective size of the seating area of the room is approx 7ft wide by 12ft deep

quote:

Do you have any space constraints (built-ins, partial walls, doors, etc) that might affect the size or placement of your speakers? Do you have a good amount of room on either side of the TV and behind the couch?

The space around the TV is pretty open, it is up against the far wall. The current HTIB speakers are already on stands and are on either side of the TV, and the sub is tucked in that corner too. There's not a lot of space behind the couch, we have some existing storage furniture that the current surround speakers rest on. My plan was to keep the speaker placement basically the same as it is now, just with better speakers

quote:

Any aesthetic preferences? Finishes? Colors? Things to avoid? Like a vintage look? Cinema look? Sleek and modern? Wood veneer? Worried about kids or pets damaging poo poo? What color walls?

Walls are off-white. I'm all about understated and functional, so a matte finish in black or gray is fine. We have a 6 year old and a cat that are mostly well behaved so not super worried about that, but it is always a risk. Hence my target budget

quote:

Floorstanders are almost always worth it if the alternative is bookshelf speakers on stands. If youíre constrained by a shelving unit or a large tv cabinet or whatever and youíre gonna put bookshelves on top of it or whatever then I get it, but otherwise definitely go with floorstanders for fronts unless your room is super small.

Based on what other people have posted here, it seems like this room is pretty small, what's your take? The TV itself is on a custom-built stand which is just wide enough to hold the TV and can hold the center channel on the middle shelf. The space to either side of the TV is available for free-standing or bookshelf-on-stand speakers.

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007



vanilla slimfast posted:

Based on what other people have posted here, it seems like this room is pretty small, what's your take? The TV itself is on a custom-built stand which is just wide enough to hold the TV and can hold the center channel on the middle shelf. The space to either side of the TV is available for free-standing or bookshelf-on-stand speakers.

How tall x wide is the middle shelf?

Wasabi the J
Jan 23, 2008


disaster pastor posted:

Sounds like soundbar on a pulldown TV mount is the way to go. Thanks!


Yeah, my ideas about cable management are very different from the previous owners'. The mount visibility, though, not sure much can be done about that.

They even make remote controlled power mounts, a little pricey at around 250 but I still like the thought of it in my house setup

vanilla slimfast
Dec 6, 2006

If anyone needs me, I'll be in the Angry Dome




Ok Comboomer posted:

How tall x wide is the middle shelf?

42Ē wide by 9Ē tall. The middle shelf is 14Ē from the floor (where the current center channel is), with the receiver at the bottom

vanilla slimfast fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Apr 22, 2021

Hippie Hedgehog
Feb 19, 2007

Ever cuddled a hedgehog?

Ok Comboomer posted:

Floorstanders are almost always worth it if the alternative is bookshelf speakers on stands. If youíre constrained by a shelving unit or a large tv cabinet or whatever and youíre gonna put bookshelves on top of it or whatever then I get it, but otherwise definitely go with floorstanders for fronts unless your room is super small.

Not sure I agree, in this case where they're going to use them at low-to-medium volumes. When combined with a decent sub, I think using bookshelves could be acceptable.

You do get more bang for the buck out of floorstanders, though, so if space isn't an issue you can certainly go for them.

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007



Hippie Hedgehog posted:

Not sure I agree, in this case where they're going to use them at low-to-medium volumes. When combined with a decent sub, I think using bookshelves could be acceptable.

You do get more bang for the buck out of floorstanders, though, so if space isn't an issue you can certainly go for them.

wouldnít floorstanders give you more dynamic range and bass extension/etc at lower volumes?

Beyond bang-for-buck its largely a matter of good space use. If you have a bookshelf speaker on its own stand then the three-dimensional space underneath the speaker is largely wasted, vs if you have a floorstander and you fill that space all the way to the floor with cabinet/driver.

You get a deeper, more resonant, speaker occupying the same amount of floor space.

Edit: also speakers that go deeper and have better bass/bass rolloff performance tend to blend better and more easily with subwoofers.

Ok Comboomer fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Apr 23, 2021

vanilla slimfast
Dec 6, 2006

If anyone needs me, I'll be in the Angry Dome




Iím definitely open to both options, somewhat depends on price of course. Any specific recommendations on brands/models that you think might fit the bill based on what Iíve described?

Also still wondering about atmos w up-firing speakers being ok with low ceilings

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007



vanilla slimfast posted:

Iím definitely open to both options, somewhat depends on price of course. Any specific recommendations on brands/models that you think might fit the bill based on what Iíve described?

Also still wondering about atmos w up-firing speakers being ok with low ceilings

For one, youíre gonna want to budget at least $500 on your sub, so right off the bat youíre working more with $1500 for speakers than $2k

Fortunately, thereís still lots of good stuff in that range.

vanilla slimfast
Dec 6, 2006

If anyone needs me, I'll be in the Angry Dome




Ok Comboomer posted:

For one, youíre gonna want to budget at least $500 on your sub, so right off the bat youíre working more with $1500 for speakers than $2k

Fortunately, thereís still lots of good stuff in that range.

Thatís fine. I donít really have a limit in the budget, just picked 2k as a target to keep it reasonable, but could go above that if it makes sense to. And Iím ok with using existing pieces of my onkyo setup if I have to put it together piecemeal

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007



vanilla slimfast posted:

Thatís fine. I donít really have a limit in the budget, just picked 2k as a target to keep it reasonable, but could go above that if it makes sense to. And Iím ok with using existing pieces of my onkyo setup if I have to put it together piecemeal

No, do not use your onkyo setup

For now my advice is just to look at companiesí stuff all along the price range:

look at KEF, Monitor Audio, Triangle Audio, Wharfedale, Klipsch, JBL, Q Acoustics, Polk Audio, Bowers & Wilkins, and Elac (thereís more Iím forgetting)

If you spot products that you like/fit your budget you can ask us about them and we can give you more feedback and more targeted advice.

Having strangers blindly recommend you some speakers that you and your family are gonna presumably live with for years without any sort of real reference points doesnít work out.

vanilla slimfast
Dec 6, 2006

If anyone needs me, I'll be in the Angry Dome




Ok Comboomer posted:

No, do not use your onkyo setup

For now my advice is just to look at companiesí stuff all along the price range:

look at KEF, Monitor Audio, Triangle Audio, Wharfedale, Klipsch, JBL, Q Acoustics, Polk Audio, Bowers & Wilkins, and Elac (thereís more Iím forgetting)

If you spot products that you like/fit your budget you can ask us about them and we can give you more feedback and more targeted advice.

Having strangers blindly recommend you some speakers that you and your family are gonna presumably live with for years without any sort of real reference points doesnít work out.

Totally, thatís fair. I wasnít expecting anyone to come in and say ďget this exact setup and you are goodĒ - but more pointing in the right general direction.

There are a few hifi/home theater shops in town here that I could go visit to do some speaker auditioning, but they tend to have super high end brands that they will push as well so I want to have an idea of what range of brands I should consider that yíall are happy with before I do that. So the list you provided here is a great starting point, thank you 😊

As for a left-field option, has anyone tried out the Monoprice Monolith line of speakers? Iíve been buying cables and such from them since forever, so Iím curious if anyone has actually taken the plunge on their high end hifi gear

Lowness 72
Jul 19, 2006
BUTTS LOL

Jade Ear Joe

Is Ascend Audio still a good option?

qirex
Feb 15, 2001



Lowness 72 posted:

Is Ascend Audio still a good option?

Theyíre not quite the bargain they used to be but theyíre really well regarded. The 170 and 340 are still pretty cheap but Sierras are $1500+ now.

As far as bookshelves vs. towers one disadvantage of towers is you canít relocate them to treat room modes that happen with bass where moving a subwoofer around can improve how it sounds. Theyíre also harder to ship, move and resell. Thatís said thereís something appealing about not having to worry about crossovers and the like.

qirex fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Apr 24, 2021

Dingwick
May 3, 2007

This is always the highlight of my day.


Well, I pulled the trigger on an AVR-S750H, a pair of RP-500Ms, and a R-112SW. I have the receiver in place, now I'm just waiting for the speakers to arrive. Today was a good day.

KingKapalone
Dec 20, 2005
1/16 Native American + 1/2 Hungarian = Totally Badass



I'm wanting to upgrade my sound system since I have a corporate discount (~50% off for audio products) through Best Buy which includes Magnolia and I plan to leave the company in the next couple months. Here's some relevant info and questions I have, so would appreciate any feedback.

Current setup: Energy speakers are C500s, CC100, C100s plus four Micca 8" ceiling speakers but only using two due to receiver. Sub is a BIC H-100. Receiver is Denon X1400H. TV is an LG C7 65".

Viewing space: Sitting position on the couch is about 9.5' and the couch is about 9.5' long. The full size of this room in the basement though is about 23' x 26'.

Usage: UHD blurays or streaming movies, TV, games. Rarely music. My wife already always tells me to turn it down and thinks I have bad hearing. I THINK I have everything setup properly using Audyssey etc, but I'll definitely have it turned up for the dialogue but then some action happens and it gets loud. I just tell her that's because it's supposed to get loud then, it's an explosion. I'm worried that big bass is going to be a problem.

Speakers: There are tons to choose from. I plan to go listen in the two Magnolia design centers near me, but even then it's just what they have and I know some of them are the $5k+ ones. I saw 9 floorstanders at around $800-1,000 each on the website so thought that could be a good price point. I want it to be a meaningful upgrade from what I have now. What should I listen for at the store? I've seen these KEFs on reddit a few times. These DTs have a bigger discount so actually come out to the same price. Think it's worth it to go up to a next price point tier like $1500 and really take advantage of this discount?

Subwoofer: I was originally thinking of one SVS SB-3000, but now I'm thinking about two PB-2000 Pros which would be 2x the price. I've heard two lesser subs will be better than one better one. The ported will also be better for non-music? I'm also now thinking that a room this size would benefit from the ported. Doubling my original price point here isn't normally my thing, so please help me think through this. I'm also wondering if I'd even be able to get much bass out of this before it shakes the house and I get scolded.

Receiver: These are hard to get. Was thinking of the Denon X3700H since it's the first one that would support a 5.1.4 system. The Magnolia guy said it wouldn't be the right amount of power for a system with big floorstanders though since that's only 105W per channel and those KEFs for example say they range from 15-200W. He said they'll play, but without covering that full range I'll get distortion or harsh sound at higher volumes. He said this could be leading to some of the volume complaints since it's not actually the volume, but actually the quality of the audio. How much of that is true? Does the amp in the receiver need to deliver 200W for a speaker like that? I'm also a little concerned about the current gen receiver HDMI 2.1 issue with not being able to do full RGB 4k HDR and VRR. Seems like a poor time to upgrade.

qirex
Feb 15, 2001



The guy at best buy was being a dumbass about wattage to upsell you, KEFs aren't particularly sensitive but you do not need 200 watts per channel to drive them. Even the $6000 Arcam they sell doesn't put out that much. The 3700 has pre-outs anyway, you can get a cheap Crown amp if you're running out of juice but with subs that's unlikely. As far as HDMI 2.1 features they're incontrovertibly jacked for 2020 and 2021 and probably won't be resolved even this calendar year, best to plan to use ARC for gaming.

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007



KingKapalone posted:


Current setup: Energy speakers are C500s, CC100, C100s plus four Micca 8" ceiling speakers but only using two due to receiver. Sub is a BIC H-100. Receiver is Denon X1400H. TV is an LG C7 65".

The most cost-effective upgrades here will be subs.

quote:

Speakers: There are tons to choose from. I plan to go listen in the two Magnolia design centers near me, but even then it's just what they have and I know some of them are the $5k+ ones. I saw 9 floorstanders at around $800-1,000 each on the website so thought that could be a good price point. I want it to be a meaningful upgrade from what I have now. What should I listen for at the store? I've seen these KEFs on reddit a few times. These DTs have a bigger discount so actually come out to the same price. Think it's worth it to go up to a next price point tier like $1500 and really take advantage of this discount?

Iím personally not big on Def Tech, but those Kefs are honestly more than you need. Since youíre using subs, your main speakers really donít need 8Ē woofers. Going with 6.5Ē woofers is fine. These are from the same series and would work fine:

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/kef-q-series-6-5-2-5-way-floorstanding-speaker-each-european-walnut/6379861.p?skuId=6379861

quote:

Subwoofer: I was originally thinking of one SVS SB-3000, but now I'm thinking about two PB-2000 Pros which would be 2x the price. I've heard two lesser subs will be better than one better one. The ported will also be better for non-music? I'm also now thinking that a room this size would benefit from the ported. Doubling my original price point here isn't normally my thing, so please help me think through this. I'm also wondering if I'd even be able to get much bass out of this before it shakes the house and I get scolded.

Multiple subs isnít so much about output (although it does slightly increase it), itís about smoothing out the bass response across multiple seats. If thatís important to you, go for 2. If max output isnít critical to you, a pair of new 1000 Pros are stupid good for the money. Youíd lose some max output, but still have good bass.

Buy isolation feet for your subwoofer. It will help keep vibrations from moving through the house.

Ported subs make it easier to get linear extension further down the frequency range, but cause a steeper drop off below the tuning frequency. With SVS I wouldnít worry either way, theyíre both good. The idea that ported subs are bad for music is audiophile BS.

quote:

Receiver: These are hard to get. Was thinking of the Denon X3700H since it's the first one that would support a 5.1.4 system. The Magnolia guy said it wouldn't be the right amount of power for a system with big floorstanders though since that's only 105W per channel and those KEFs for example say they range from 15-200W. He said they'll play, but without covering that full range I'll get distortion or harsh sound at higher volumes. He said this could be leading to some of the volume complaints since it's not actually the volume, but actually the quality of the audio. How much of that is true? Does the amp in the receiver need to deliver 200W for a speaker like that? I'm also a little concerned about the current gen receiver HDMI 2.1 issue with not being able to do full RGB 4k HDR and VRR. Seems like a poor time to upgrade.

You are right about poor upgrade timing. There are definitely still some issues to work out with HDMI 2.1 and VRR.

That said, the sales guy is completely full of poo poo. 105 watts is more than enough.

So the speakers I linked have a sensitivity of 88 db, effectively meaning that with 1 watt of power they play at 88 db when measured from 1 meter away. To increase that volume by 3 db requires doubling the power. So:

1 watt - 88 db
2 - 91
4 - 94
8 - 97
16 - 100
32 - 103
64 - 106

There is some loss due to sitting distance, but 105 watts is more than enough to damage your hearing. Most people like a reference volume between 75 and 85 db.

Also, a speakerís power needs arenít linear across the frequency range. It requires more power to produce bass frequencies (which makes sense - youíre moving a larger driver with more mass and more air to displace). Youíre using subwoofers. Donít worry about amplifier power.

Hippie Hedgehog
Feb 19, 2007

Ever cuddled a hedgehog?

Ok Comboomer posted:

Beyond bang-for-buck its largely a matter of good space use. If you have a bookshelf speaker on its own stand then the three-dimensional space underneath the speaker is largely wasted, vs if you have a floorstander and you fill that space all the way to the floor with cabinet/driver.

Well, duh. A bookshelf speaker is made for standing in/on a bookshelf, naturally. You'd buy a smaller, less performant speaker, which is designed to take little space, then paying extra for a stand just to eat up that space you wanted to save... No, speaker stands are mostly stupid.

Bookshelf speakers are for rooms with furniture to put them on, or for hanging off a wall or ceiling. Mine are on the piano (L) and a bookshelf (R). The center is mounted above the TV.

I agree that in this case, floorstanders may be the best choice.

Take the plunge! Okay!
Feb 24, 2007




TBH I like the bookshelf speaker on stand aesthetic

qirex
Feb 15, 2001



If you have a subwoofer then a lot of the sound quality advantage of floorstanders is irrelevant and if you're doing surround the center is doing most of the work anyway, I think a lot of people would rather buy better bookshelves than they could afford towers [the old "buy the cheapest house in the best zip code" cliche].

KingKapalone
Dec 20, 2005
1/16 Native American + 1/2 Hungarian = Totally Badass

TheMadMilkman posted:

The most cost-effective upgrades here will be subs.

Iím personally not big on Def Tech, but those Kefs are honestly more than you need. Since youíre using subs, your main speakers really donít need 8Ē woofers. Going with 6.5Ē woofers is fine. These are from the same series and would work fine:

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/kef-q-series-6-5-2-5-way-floorstanding-speaker-each-european-walnut/6379861.p?skuId=6379861

Multiple subs isnít so much about output (although it does slightly increase it), itís about smoothing out the bass response across multiple seats. If thatís important to you, go for 2. If max output isnít critical to you, a pair of new 1000 Pros are stupid good for the money. Youíd lose some max output, but still have good bass.

Buy isolation feet for your subwoofer. It will help keep vibrations from moving through the house.

Ported subs make it easier to get linear extension further down the frequency range, but cause a steeper drop off below the tuning frequency. With SVS I wouldnít worry either way, theyíre both good. The idea that ported subs are bad for music is audiophile BS.

That said, the sales guy is completely full of poo poo. 105 watts is more than enough.


When you say more than I need and then mention their size, I imagine there's some other things I could still consider for sound quality. Are there other things I should be looking for? Will even these KEF still have a marked improvement over the Energy I have now?

For the subs, I get the idea of smoothing out the bass which could be nice since the big loud movies are probably the action movies I'd want friends over to watch and we'd be spread out. Would going with 2000s over 1000s be worth the jump if I'm looking to put more money somewhere in the whole package over doing the same for speakers? For example, spending an extra $350 to upgrade the subs compared to needing to spend a couple $1000 to get a relatively similar quality boost in speakers?

For ported vs sealed, it doesn't sound like you think the ported would make enough difference? The large room rather than the type of listening is what made me think ported would work better.

Good to know about the receiver. Might just have to get that and deal with ARC if I get a new VRR TV.

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007



KingKapalone posted:

When you say more than I need and then mention their size, I imagine there's some other things I could still consider for sound quality. Are there other things I should be looking for? Will even these KEF still have a marked improvement over the Energy I have now?

So for the speaker size Iím commenting on two different things. First is the transition between the tweeter and the midrange. For the Q950, the midrange is an 8Ē driver. Thatís really big, and the transition between the two wonít be as smooth as it could be. The Q750 has a 6.5Ē midrange, which will give you a much smoother transition.

The second is the transition between the speakers and the subwoofer. In my personal experience, a 6.5Ē driver is more than enough to smoothly transition between the main speaker and the subwoofer if you use the standard 80 hz crossover. An 8Ē woofer just isnít necessary. It has some advantages, but not enough to worry about here. Between the Q750 and Q950, I would absolutely choose the 750.

As for what to look for, youíre ideally looking for flat frequency response with smooth off-axis response. Unfortunately, itís painfully hard to find measurements for most speakers. What I have seen of the Kef Q series has been good, and Kef is a company that does follow good engineering principles. I trust that the 750 is also good. SVS, Elac, and the Martin Logan Motion series are other options from Best Buy that also measure well and would be good. Iíd still probably choose the Kefs, but I also really like how they look.

Will they be better than the Energy speakers you have? Yes. Those were okay, but not great speakers. I think you will definitely notice the difference.

quote:

For the subs, I get the idea of smoothing out the bass which could be nice since the big loud movies are probably the action movies I'd want friends over to watch and we'd be spread out. Would going with 2000s over 1000s be worth the jump if I'm looking to put more money somewhere in the whole package over doing the same for speakers? For example, spending an extra $350 to upgrade the subs compared to needing to spend a couple $1000 to get a relatively similar quality boost in speakers?

What the 2000s get you over the 1000s is slightly more output and slightly more extension. I think either will be a big improvement over what you have, but the price increase is pretty minimal, so if he 2000s will make you 2nd guess less, go for it.

If the choice is upgrade from the 1000s to the 2000s or upgrade from the Q750 to a more expensive speaker, go for the subs.

quote:

For ported vs sealed, it doesn't sound like you think the ported would make enough difference? The large room rather than the type of listening is what made me think ported would work better.

The difference is really minimal. With SVS itís often the difference between a slight roll off starting at 25 hz vs a sharp roll off at 18 hz. The port is entirely about bass extension response and a slight increase in output. Room size doesnít really affect the decision between one or the other, because the difference is typically very minor.

Go with your gut on this one, since it will keep you from second guessing. I wish a Best Buy carried the PC-2000 Pro. I actually love the cylinder subs. My brother has 2 in a room close to your size (but more closed off) and those things slam.

quote:

Good to know about the receiver. Might just have to get that and deal with ARC if I get a new VRR TV.

Ya, itís a mess. It wouldnít stop me from buying in your situation, though.

KingKapalone
Dec 20, 2005
1/16 Native American + 1/2 Hungarian = Totally Badass

TheMadMilkman posted:

So for the speaker size Iím commenting on two different things. First is the transition between the tweeter and the midrange. For the Q950, the midrange is an 8Ē driver. Thatís really big, and the transition between the two wonít be as smooth as it could be. The Q750 has a 6.5Ē midrange, which will give you a much smoother transition.

The second is the transition between the speakers and the subwoofer. In my personal experience, a 6.5Ē driver is more than enough to smoothly transition between the main speaker and the subwoofer if you use the standard 80 hz crossover. An 8Ē woofer just isnít necessary. It has some advantages, but not enough to worry about here. Between the Q750 and Q950, I would absolutely choose the 750.

As for what to look for, youíre ideally looking for flat frequency response with smooth off-axis response. Unfortunately, itís painfully hard to find measurements for most speakers. What I have seen of the Kef Q series has been good, and Kef is a company that does follow good engineering principles. I trust that the 750 is also good. SVS, Elac, and the Martin Logan Motion series are other options from Best Buy that also measure well and would be good. Iíd still probably choose the Kefs, but I also really like how they look.

Will they be better than the Energy speakers you have? Yes. Those were okay, but not great speakers. I think you will definitely notice the difference.


What the 2000s get you over the 1000s is slightly more output and slightly more extension. I think either will be a big improvement over what you have, but the price increase is pretty minimal, so if he 2000s will make you 2nd guess less, go for it.

If the choice is upgrade from the 1000s to the 2000s or upgrade from the Q750 to a more expensive speaker, go for the subs.


The difference is really minimal. With SVS itís often the difference between a slight roll off starting at 25 hz vs a sharp roll off at 18 hz. The port is entirely about bass extension response and a slight increase in output. Room size doesnít really affect the decision between one or the other, because the difference is typically very minor.

Go with your gut on this one, since it will keep you from second guessing. I wish a Best Buy carried the PC-2000 Pro. I actually love the cylinder subs. My brother has 2 in a room close to your size (but more closed off) and those things slam.


Ya, itís a mess. It wouldnít stop me from buying in your situation, though.

Thanks, the similarly priced ELACs would actually be $60 less each even though their retail price is higher. https://www.bestbuy.com/site/elac-uni-fi-5-1-4-140-watt-passive-3-way-floor-speaker-each-satin-black/5706253.p?skuId=5706253 The matching center for the ELAC is much cheaper but also sold out.

The KEF center and bookshelfs are available. I wonder if they'll have all of these available to demo.

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007



KingKapalone posted:

Thanks, the similarly priced ELACs would actually be $60 less each even though their retail price is higher. https://www.bestbuy.com/site/elac-uni-fi-5-1-4-140-watt-passive-3-way-floor-speaker-each-satin-black/5706253.p?skuId=5706253 The matching center for the ELAC is much cheaper but also sold out.

The KEF center and bookshelfs are available. I wonder if they'll have all of these available to demo.

worth noting that KEF Q series goes on heavy discount a lot, both on kefdirect (KEF direct online store) and from retailers like Crutchfield, etc.

and by ďheavy discountĒ I mean like 30-50% off msrp, so maybe itís worth keeping your eyes open and waiting for a brief bit

usually many places will have Motherís Day and Dads+Grads sales

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TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007



The Elacs and the Kefs have VERY similar designs, so hopefully you can listen to both. My vote would be for the Kefs, but a lot of that is because of the walnut finish you can get.

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