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Ho Chi Meeeeee
Jun 13, 2008

let me shovel out your brains
hang my image in your skull
so I can be the vision
in your nightmares from now on


Pre-UFC, you are pretty much looking at Pancrase. You'll find A LOT of Japanese wrestlers that you'll recognize. Some of the fights are worked but there are some real, legit fights in there.

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Bubba Smith
Sep 27, 2004

Is tonight the greatest moment in Dominick Cruz's life?

No.

The greatest moment in my life was realizing that I didn't need a belt to be happy.


Giovanni Qobras posted:

Please use the reserved post for a section on Olympic hero, convicted felon, therapeutic testosterone tiny ball having, money laundering, aspiring politician, WCW powerplant graduate, Rowdy Roddy Piper protege and #1 pfp Chael Sonnen, Chael Sonnen

"UFC suspended" too.

Eat This Glob
Jan 14, 2008

hurry up with my damn croissants


Lipstick Apathy

Critical posted:

Hahaha holy poo poo.

Thanks for the OP, MMA crew. I follow it very casually. I do request that Bisping getting punished for running his mouth .gif be posted at earliest convenience. Probably the most brutal thing I've ever seen outside of Hollywood or videogames.

Nobody did this yet?





kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


Eat This Glob posted:



After the knockdown, Hendo brings his hand up for a second. While he doesn't actually do so, it's important that you believe that he kisses his fist before doing the diving punch.

Eat This Glob
Jan 14, 2008

hurry up with my damn croissants


Lipstick Apathy

kimbo305 posted:

After the knockdown, Hendo brings his hand up for a second. While he doesn't actually do so, it's important that you believe that he kisses his fist before doing the diving punch.

He does it. He does it indeed . Don't listen to that dude. The BRH is the spirit of America.

jeffersonlives
Jul 22, 2007

"Mathewson pitched against Cincinnati yesterday. Another way of putting it is that Cincinnati lost a game of baseball."


Oh Em Gee posted:

Pre-UFC, you are pretty much looking at Pancrase. You'll find A LOT of Japanese wrestlers that you'll recognize. Some of the fights are worked but there are some real, legit fights in there.

Pancrase only broke off from the other UWF remnants a few months before UFC started, and the work percentage for Pancrase fights at the beginning was far higher than later on (same thing with RINGS and even PRIDE).

Before that MMA in the 20th century would have mostly consisted of vale tudo, of which things like records and video are pretty scarce on, and your occasional freak show mixed matches like Inoki/Ali and Gracie/Kimura. If you go back even further to around the turn of the century, the origins of professional wrestling were a shoot and then it starts getting real confusing.

gif Probst
Oct 20, 2006

= the tribe has spoken =


so getting down to brass tacks, what thread tags do you guys need? I think UFC, StrikeForce, and Boxing tags are a given, but what else specifically?

Bubba Smith
Sep 27, 2004

Is tonight the greatest moment in Dominick Cruz's life?

No.

The greatest moment in my life was realizing that I didn't need a belt to be happy.


ADRIEN GRODYS FIFE posted:

so getting down to brass tacks, what thread tags do you guys need? I think UFC, StrikeForce, and Boxing tags are a given, but what else specifically?

Strikeforce tag is a bit much. The promotion is growing but it doesn't represent all B-League promotions. An overall MMA tag would be better.

MMA tag, Boxing tag, Kickboxing tag, Wrestling tag (?), then maybe a tag that has Brock Lesnar holding up a UFC belt. That should about do it.

BlindSite
Feb 8, 2009



projecthalaxy posted:

Are there any real single-style guys left in high-level MMA? I guess Roger Gracie might count, but even he seems to be succumbing to wrestleboxing.

Also, is the oil check the gayest technique in Our Gay Sport?

The short answer to your question is no.

That being said there are a few fighters who tend to stay "true" to their background. Dustin Hazlett is pretty incredibad as a striker and has a really entertaining style it's very much an attacking form of Jiu Jitsu.

Look up some of Lyoto Machida's fights against Rashad Evans most notably; to see someone use some pretty obvious Karate (shotokan) striking to dominate one of the top light heavy weights in the world and the at-the-time champion. Karo Parysian is a Judoka who used to be pretty good all round till he became manic depressive and a pain killer addict.

TBH, what makes MMA great is to see a guy come out throwing strikes from different styles then take someone down and use Jiu Jitsu, it's really the whole idea of the sport now, but there's still some cool poo poo you can see that is identifiable from different styles, Pat Barry has thrown some great kicks, Cung Le also has used some Sanshou based stuff in his fights, the aforementioned Machida throwing combinations after timing what some would deem a suicidal leap to perfection, Axe Kicks from Crocop, Lateral drops etc are all loving great to see, but they're more sprinkled in fights.

Seeing pure styles is a thing of the past, even Machida who has probably the most identifiable striking style has great Jiu Jitsu and a very solid wrestling base that allow him to do what he does. My advice is more to just watch the high level guys at their best in the fight mentioned above and I garantee you'll find someone who's style you find entertaining whether you are just one of the "just bleed" dudes or someone who appreciates martial arts.

Solice Kirsk
Jun 1, 2004



I'd say Paul Daley is pretty one dimensional still. And he may be fighting for the Strikeforce belt soon!

Boregasm
Nov 17, 2009


Solice Kirsk posted:

I'd say Paul Daley is pretty one dimensional still. And he may be fighting for the Strikeforce belt soon!

I'd say Daley is a Sprawl n' Brawler, which implies he has a VERY basic idea of takedown defense and hanging on for dear life when he does get taken down. Pat Barry has horrendous takedown defense and has been on the receiving end of Crocop (of all people) and Tim Hague (jesus christ) chokes.

Just read the pro wrestling counterpart to this thread and I think adding a glossary of our MMA terms to the OP would be informative. For instance, British Single, Wrestling Ruins Everything, enjoyable human being Punch(es), etc. There's a whole world of terms that we throw around pretty often without thinking.

BlindSite
Feb 8, 2009



Solice Kirsk posted:

I'd say Paul Daley is pretty one dimensional still. And he may be fighting for the Strikeforce belt soon!

Right after I posted this I thought of Paul Daley as a pretty pure Muai Thai based striker, probably add Jose Aldo to the mix and Shinya Aoki as a pure grappler.

One could argue too Pat Barry as pretty much a pure striker. As far as definable one style guys, they don't really exist.

Eat This Glob
Jan 14, 2008

hurry up with my damn croissants


Lipstick Apathy

Solice Kirsk posted:

I'd say British people minus Hathaway are pretty one dimensional still.

Other than British people in the UFC and non-country-descript B-C-and-D Leaguers, they're pretty well rounded all in all. Everyone has their base whether it be BJJ, folkstyle/greco/freestyle wrestling, Karate, Judo, boxing, etc, most people in MMA mix it up to an extent to try an maximize their strengths.

BlindSite
Feb 8, 2009



Boregasm posted:

I'd say Daley is a Sprawl n' Brawler, which implies he has a VERY basic idea of takedown defense and hanging on for dear life when he does get taken down. Pat Barry has horrendous takedown defense and has been on the receiving end of Crocop (of all people) and Tim Hague (jesus christ) chokes.

Just read the pro wrestling counterpart to this thread and I think adding a glossary of our MMA terms to the OP would be informative. For instance, British Single, Wrestling Ruins Everything, enjoyable human being Punch(es), etc. There's a whole world of terms that we throw around pretty often without thinking.

I think this would be helpful too, because quite often I found myself saying "wtf" when I first started lurking the mma threads.

maybe an MMA style glossary as well.

"Sprawl n' Brawl"
A fighter who does everything possible to keep the fight standing. Notable examples: Mirko Crocop, Chuck Lidell, Rampage Jackson, Junior Dos Santos, BJ Penn through most of his title run.

"Ground n' Pound"
Primarily wrestlers who rely on their well-grounded ability (usually collegiate) to take their opponent down and rain strikes in order to TKO, KO or decision their opponent. Notable examples: Matt Hughes, Tito Ortiz (whilst champion), Mark Munoz, Chael Sonnen

Either way these two styles generally require a fighter to have at least some level of wrestling ability.

"Wrestling ruins everything"
The ability of the top wrestlers in most divisions being able to literally lie on their opponent and control their posture for between 15 and 25 minutes depending on the fight. These fighters generally use "enjoyable human being punches", small inconsequential, damageless, powerless punches that do no real damage to appear as if they're remaining active (to avoid referees standing up the fight) and prolong their opponents boredom, frustration or agony, usually all three. Note: This is the ugly sister of ground and pound.

BlindSite fucked around with this message at Feb 2, 2011 around 07:05

Big Bob Pataki
Jan 23, 2009

The Bob that Refreshes

I hope there's an entire section devoted to the Diaz brothers

Solice Kirsk
Jun 1, 2004



Big Bob Pataki posted:

I hope there's an entire section devoted to the Diaz brothers

"Look at my face then look at his. You tell me who won that fight."*


*not to be used in reference to KJ Noons or Gomi fights.

Lid
Feb 18, 2005

Rap terrorist, terrorise, tear it up
Brought gas and the matches to flare it up
Militant Michael might go psycho
On any ally or rival
Born Black, that's dead on arrival
My job is to fight for survival
In spite of these #AllLivesMatter-ass white folk


Solice Kirsk posted:

"Look at my face then look at his. You tell me who won that fight."*


*not to be used in reference to KJ Noons or Gomi fights.

This is the best metric as BJ Penn still uses it to say he won GSP-Penn 1.

Boregasm
Nov 17, 2009


Lay n' Pray: A strategy that involves wrestling your opponent to the ground and maintaining top position. From there the fighter does not try to advance his position or deliver meaningful strikes. He aims to ride the round out and win via control and nothing else. This is boring as hell. See also "Wrestling Ruins Everything".

enjoyable human being Punches: The act of throwing constant, low damage punches. The best examples from the standing position are the Diaz brothers. The best examples on the ground are wrestlers who throw pot shots to give the illusion of activity.

British Single/Double: The act of diving for a very pathetic takedown attempt. Also known as the Brazilian Single/Double. Outside of the US wrestling is not as common of a sport, which leads to foreigners sometimes attempting takedowns that fail miserably against fighters who've wrestled all their lives. Thus, the British Single/Double.

I'll try to think of some more tomorrow if nobody fills in the gaps.

Boregasm fucked around with this message at Feb 2, 2011 around 07:20

jeffersonlives
Jul 22, 2007

"Mathewson pitched against Cincinnati yesterday. Another way of putting it is that Cincinnati lost a game of baseball."


It's actually British Double a lot more than British Single.

Boregasm
Nov 17, 2009


jeffersonlives posted:

It's actually British Double a lot more than British Single.

Edited to reflect this truth.

Lid
Feb 18, 2005

Rap terrorist, terrorise, tear it up
Brought gas and the matches to flare it up
Militant Michael might go psycho
On any ally or rival
Born Black, that's dead on arrival
My job is to fight for survival
In spite of these #AllLivesMatter-ass white folk


Butt Scoot: Where a BJJ or Shootist fighter, specialists in grappling and ground based submissions, does not possess either decent stand up striking (offense or defense) or offensive takedowns they default to the move of butt scooting which is quite literally falling on their own rear end and then scooting around the ring essentially begging their opponent to jump into their guard or to grab a leg that they couldn't while attempting an actual takedown. The opponent will mostly just walk away until they get forcibly stood up again, where if you are Thales Leites or Shinya Aoki will drop to their asses again as soon as possible. It is as embarrassing as it sounds and if performed is a sure sign of pathetic.

Lid fucked around with this message at Feb 2, 2011 around 07:22

Manifest Dynasty
Feb 29, 2008


You could probably include some of the basic BJJ stuff like guard, half-guard, a few common submissions, etc.

Also, since there are a few new or casual fans reading this thread, I feel I should note that this Saturday's card will probably be pretty fun and worth the watch. Get some friends to chip in a couple bucks or just find a bar showing it.

Boregasm
Nov 17, 2009


Wrestlefucked: The harsh reality that a fighter who is not good at wrestling faces. That is to say, a fighter could be a great striker or great BJJ player or both, but the control and ability of a very good wrestler completely neutralizes their entire offensive capabilities.

My last one before I go to bed. Writing up some more basic terms like the ground progressions (guard, half-guard, side, mount, back) and the like would probably be really helpful.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA

Manifest Dynasty posted:

You could probably include some of the basic BJJ stuff like guard, half-guard, a few common submissions, etc.

Also, since there are a few new or casual fans reading this thread, I feel I should note that this Saturday's card will probably be pretty fun and worth the watch. Get some friends to chip in a couple bucks or just find a bar showing it.

On top of that Anderson Silva may provide a better dance off than any in the history of Monday Night Raw.

Ho Chi Meeeeee
Jun 13, 2008

let me shovel out your brains
hang my image in your skull
so I can be the vision
in your nightmares from now on


BlindSite posted:

The short answer to your question is no.

That being said there are a few fighters who tend to stay "true" to their background. Dustin Hazlett is pretty incredibad as a striker and has a really entertaining style it's very much an attacking form of Jiu Jitsu.

Look up some of Lyoto Machida's fights against Rashad Evans most notably; to see someone use some pretty obvious Karate (shotokan) striking to dominate one of the top light heavy weights in the world and the at-the-time champion. Karo Parysian is a Judoka who used to be pretty good all round till he became manic depressive and a pain killer addict.

TBH, what makes MMA great is to see a guy come out throwing strikes from different styles then take someone down and use Jiu Jitsu, it's really the whole idea of the sport now, but there's still some cool poo poo you can see that is identifiable from different styles, Pat Barry has thrown some great kicks, Cung Le also has used some Sanshou based stuff in his fights, the aforementioned Machida throwing combinations after timing what some would deem a suicidal leap to perfection, Axe Kicks from Crocop, Lateral drops etc are all loving great to see, but they're more sprinkled in fights.

Seeing pure styles is a thing of the past, even Machida who has probably the most identifiable striking style has great Jiu Jitsu and a very solid wrestling base that allow him to do what he does. My advice is more to just watch the high level guys at their best in the fight mentioned above and I garantee you'll find someone who's style you find entertaining whether you are just one of the "just bleed" dudes or someone who appreciates martial arts.


I know this is the day and age of Joe Rogan basically blowing BJJ constantly but uh, maybe acknowledge other ground fighting styles that have had while not the massive impact that BJJ has still have left their mark. Catch Wrestling and Sambo come to mind, hell even Judo. Japan in particular is rife with guys who have shoot wrestling backgrounds (an offshoot of catch wrestling) hell you have the eastern europeans with their judo/sambo as well. I hate to nit pick man but to call ground fighting basically "jiu-jitsu" is really restraining in terms of what the sport actually is.

gif Probst
Oct 20, 2006

= the tribe has spoken =




lil tag i whipped up inspired by the fighting tag.

gif Probst fucked around with this message at Feb 2, 2011 around 08:14

Ho Chi Meeeeee
Jun 13, 2008

let me shovel out your brains
hang my image in your skull
so I can be the vision
in your nightmares from now on


I also think a pointer about what to look for in grappling is key as well. The positions, philosophies behind the styles etc. There's not point to watching MMA if all you want is to see really lovely kick-boxing because everything you see on the ground is "GAY enjoyable human being HORSESHIT, STAND EM UP REF"

Push El Burrito
May 9, 2006

SKATE FAST
EAT ASS


Grimey Drawer

Oh Em Gee posted:

I also think a pointer about what to look for in grappling is key as well. The positions, philosophies behind the styles etc. There's not point to watching MMA if all you want is to see really lovely kick-boxing because everything you see on the ground is "GAY enjoyable human being HORSESHIT, STAND EM UP REF"

All I want to see in MMA is submissions. Just constant, awesome submissions.

Who should I look out for with that?

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


Burrito posted:

All I want to see in MMA is submissions. Just constant, awesome submissions.

Who should I look out for with that?

Shinya Aoki, Ronaldo "Jacare" Souza, Roger Gracie, Demian Maia, Dustin Hazelett, Charles Olivera.

edit: This is my favorite display of submission grappling in recent times, Demian Maia vs. Chael Sonnen, especially when you consider how much Sonnen (a wrestler) was trashing BJJ prior to this fight. Saying that he was a Republican and they don't do that gay BJJ stuff, then he gets outwrestled and submitted.

http://www.mma-core.com/videos/_Dem...95?vid=10003486

1st AD fucked around with this message at Feb 2, 2011 around 08:33

niethan
Nov 22, 2005

Don't be scared, homie!


Burrito posted:

All I want to see in MMA is submissions. Just constant, awesome submissions.

Who should I look out for with that?

Shinya Aoki
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXL9dIHqQJk

This is the Undertakers special move i think

Lid
Feb 18, 2005

Rap terrorist, terrorise, tear it up
Brought gas and the matches to flare it up
Militant Michael might go psycho
On any ally or rival
Born Black, that's dead on arrival
My job is to fight for survival
In spite of these #AllLivesMatter-ass white folk


George Sotiropoulos, Mark Bocek... look for lightweight grapplers.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


ADRIEN GRODYS FIFE posted:



lil tag i whipped up inspired by the fighting tag.

Nitpick again -- the UFC only uses black gloves (strangely, made by Century, one of the shittier glove companies out there).

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


Manifest Dynasty posted:

You could probably include some of the basic BJJ stuff like guard, half-guard, a few common submissions, etc.

Also, since there are a few new or casual fans reading this thread, I feel I should note that this Saturday's card will probably be pretty fun and worth the watch. Get some friends to chip in a couple bucks or just find a bar showing it.

Yeah, I think some kind of general grappling FAQ is absolutely needed, because people generally get why things in boxing/kickboxing/muay thai work in MMA but as soon as a fight moves to the clinch or to the ground it's like voodoo. It should include:

-Clinch work, important of underhooks, takedowns from the clinch
-Grappling in a ring vs. grappling in a cage
-All the standard BJJ positions + less common stuff like a top crucifix or rubber guard, why passing and posture are important, etc.
-All the basic joint locks and chokes, maybe a couple obscure ones like gogoplata or peruvian neck ties

Thorias
Jun 3, 2008


Speaking of submissions...

I've only seen the keylock used by Overeem and I was wondering if there was any one else out there that has done a gruesome-looking keylock like that? (Some gifs or youtube videos would be nice)

And I was curious about the move itself, too so any info about how dangerous or uneffective, or complicated/uncomplicated it is to pull off or whatever type of info would be nice, too.

(I'm still relatively new to MMA, I've only been watching for a few years now, and only casually up until a year or so ago when I started to follow it a lot more, and began lurking the b-league and UFC thread when they were in SAS to look for knowledge.)

Bubba Smith
Sep 27, 2004

Is tonight the greatest moment in Dominick Cruz's life?

No.

The greatest moment in my life was realizing that I didn't need a belt to be happy.


ADRIEN GRODYS FIFE posted:



lil tag i whipped up inspired by the fighting tag.

That is actually really good.

Here is a tag for grappling that I just made

gif Probst
Oct 20, 2006

= the tribe has spoken =



a catch-all MMA one i made, didn't know bout the black glove thing, gonna see how i can edit it to look better aesthetically.

Hockles
Dec 25, 2007

Resident of Camp Blood
Crystal Lake



Can somebody explain all the different positions of grappling on the ground? I get confused when they are called out in a match.

Broheim
Jan 8, 2009


Hockles posted:

Can somebody explain all the different positions of grappling on the ground? I get confused when they are called out in a match.

http://www.mma-core.com/videos/_Dem...0001028&tid=100

This is a very good fight that shows pretty much every major ground position and has Rogan giving a decent explanation of each one throughout. They also attempt triangles, guillotines, armbars, and rear naked chokes which are the more frequently used and effective holds in the sport.

So yeah it pretty much has everything as far as MMA ground fighting goes.

world b lee
Feb 1, 2006
Is it a frog? Is it a toad?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSxCrp6h6hE

Apparently this is the guy who won the Royal Rumble. Enjoy some Sweet Left Kick Music.

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KungFu Grip
Jun 18, 2008

HUSS
HUSS
HUSS


world b lee posted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSxCrp6h6hE

Apparently this is the guy who won the Royal Rumble. Enjoy some Sweet Left Kick Music.

Man this has been posted a lot today.

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