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Grab Your Foot!
Apr 23, 2007

The struggle itself towards the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.


No that's a pretty solid rundown of what you should generally expect to see grappling-wise in a fight. Just like anything else, however, there is an enormous amount of detail that you don't always notice or appreciate and some of those things help make otherwise boring man-hugging on the ground into something interesting.

For example, the guillotine you're talking about is pretty effective but there are ways to defend it fairly reliably so people (Marcelo Garcia in particular I think) have been working on variations to take those defenses away. So for some the guillotine is moving away from the fall back to your back and crank with all your built up hate version (edit: that isn't a good guillotine anyway) to a choke where you work from your side and throw the elbow of your non-choking arm over the shoulder of your opponent, as seen being used by C.B. Dollaway of all people:



So basically my two points are that there are a lot of small details in good grappling like in good striking that make it really cool to watch and that I love that guillotine.

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Mr. Carlisle
Jul 14, 2007



Is there a story behind how all the blue tinted white background fighter avatars came to be?

Grab Your Foot!
Apr 23, 2007

The struggle itself towards the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.


Mr. Carlisle posted:

Is there a story behind how all the blue tinted white background fighter avatars came to be?

Yeah they're taken from this poster:



That's a lineup of most of the big important people from the old Japanese fighting promotion Pride. A lot of us were fond of the fighters on the poster so we figured we'd take them and use them as avatars. I'm Paulo "It's Not surprise sex if You Do It To Yourself" Filho.

Top Bunk Wanker
Jan 31, 2005

Top Trump Anger

KidDynamite posted:

Mike Tyson vs Trevor Berbick

This is probably my favorite Tyson fight ever, because it's the only time I've ever seen a man get knocked down three times by one punch. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMGzKcbCYPc

Mr. Carlisle
Jul 14, 2007



Grab Your Foot! posted:

Yeah they're taken from this poster:

That's a lineup of most of the big important people from the old Japanese fighting promotion Pride. A lot of us were fond of the fighters on the poster so we figured we'd take them and use them as avatars. I'm Paulo "It's Not surprise sex if You Do It To Yourself" Filho.

Ah, thanks! Didn't know if it was by choice or handed out as a toxx type thing or not. I just noticed there were alot of them.

maffew buildings
Apr 29, 2009

I'm too dumb to get probated


Grifter posted:

Armbar

LvK
Feb 27, 2006

FIVE STARS!!


Grab Your Foot! posted:

Yeah they're taken from this poster:



That's a lineup of most of the big important people from the old Japanese fighting promotion Pride. A lot of us were fond of the fighters on the poster so we figured we'd take them and use them as avatars. I'm Paulo "It's Not surprise sex if You Do It To Yourself" Filho.

And then you paired it with Steely Dan lyrics. You're a man of distinguished taste.

Incendiary Pig
Nov 3, 2006

Totally out of control

I didn't see it in the OP, maybe I missed it. On the list of fights to watch, do you think Griffin/Bonnar 1 should be on there? It's incredibly entertaining, made Forrest Griffin the winner of the first season of the Ultimate Fighter, and (correct me if I'm wrong) the fans voted it the best UFC fight of all time.

A Pale Horse
Jul 29, 2007

Please ask me how much I personally have at stake every time I tell women and minorities to stop fearing for their safety and civil rights.

Incendiary Pig posted:

I didn't see it in the OP, maybe I missed it. On the list of fights to watch, do you think Griffin/Bonnar 1 should be on there? It's incredibly entertaining, made Forrest Griffin the winner of the first season of the Ultimate Fighter, and (correct me if I'm wrong) the fans voted it the best UFC fight of all time.

Yeah, that fight definitely deserves to be on there, its an outdated slopfest by today's standards but it is literally the fight that saved American MMA and is still pretty entertaining.

fatherdog
Feb 16, 2005

by Lowtax


A Pale Horse posted:

Yeah, that fight definitely deserves to be on there, its an outdated slopfest by today's standards but it is literally the fight that saved American MMA and is still pretty entertaining.

Yeah, this. It's fashionable for mma snobs to hate on it because it wasn't a tremendously technical fight, but it's not even slightly exaggerating to call it the most important fight in MMA history.

Mons Public
Jun 22, 2006

Sometimes I look for Rupees.

That list is from an old thread 3 years ago and I just put a few recent fights on it. I'll add more later.

savinhill
Mar 28, 2010


Ghost Town Perv posted:

This is probably my favorite Tyson fight ever, because it's the only time I've ever seen a man get knocked down three times by one punch. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMGzKcbCYPc
That knockout is the definition of being on queer street.

Ho Chi Meeeeee
Jun 13, 2008

let me shovel out your brains
hang my image in your skull
so I can be the vision
in your nightmares from now on


mobn posted:

This is mandatory viewing for everybody. Watch it in HD:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAAgt6mGXIY

The pro-est of clicks. Jesus if you don't watch this you hate MMA and wrestling.

EDIT: I would like to point out in Japan, MMA is HEAVILY influenced by pro-wrestling, the first MMA fighters in Japan were pretty much a bunch of young turks trained by Karl Gotch who decided to see what they learned (unfortunately Karl didn't teach them the proper proper way to do things, just a bunch of show holds for the most part, but realistic looking show holds that can actually hurt the gently caress out of you.) and wanted to do it for real.

I think the old argument was that no one wanted to see legit fights..and well what do you know, people do.

Ho Chi Meeeeee fucked around with this message at Feb 2, 2011 around 21:16

Ciprian Maricon
Feb 27, 2006




Ziggy Tsardust posted:

And there are STILL people who think that MMA has nothing in common with wrestling.

I'd just like to say thank you for this thread. I've tried to get into MMA before but found it all a little intimidating. It looks like going through old PRRIDE stuff is best for me.

MMA and Wrestling are closely linked.

Historically speaking I mean, and one day me and CortX should tag-team a big post about the subject, the two sports are closely linked. The reality is also that stories sell and the big fights and popular fighters and the things we remember, love, and connect with. All of those are often less because of the fight and more because of the story which drives us to invest emotionally in the outcome and adds all the drama we perceive when grown men spend 20 minutes hugging each other.

Ho Chi Meeeeee
Jun 13, 2008

let me shovel out your brains
hang my image in your skull
so I can be the vision
in your nightmares from now on


I like catch wrestling...please don't call me gay.

Ziggy Tzardust
Apr 7, 2006

The only free choice is refusal to pay



Oh Em Gee posted:

The pro-est of clicks. Jesus if you don't watch this you hate MMA and wrestling.

EDIT: I would like to point out in Japan, MMA is HEAVILY influenced by pro-wrestling, the first MMA fighters in Japan were pretty much a bunch of young turks trained by Karl Gotch who decided to see what they learned (unfortunately Karl didn't teach them the proper proper way to do things, just a bunch of show holds for the most part, but realistic looking show holds that can actually hurt the gently caress out of you.) and wanted to do it for real.

I think the old argument was that no one wanted to see legit fights..and well what do you know, people do.

I don't know if you can tell me but how much impact did UWFi have on the popularity/rise of MMA in Japan?

Ho Chi Meeeeee
Jun 13, 2008

let me shovel out your brains
hang my image in your skull
so I can be the vision
in your nightmares from now on


Ehh...it did alright, they billed themselves as their fighters actually having a bunch of legit skills, unfortunately when they did a feud with New Japan in which most of their fighters lost they lost their cred and with it their audience.

They formed Kingdom after UWFi died and Sakuraba started off as a jobber in that promotion before eventually being moved to main event status. In a really indirect way UWFi did help shape it, but only because of its alumnus (most notably Kiyoshi Tamura and Sakuraba) has gone on and done well in legit shoot matches...the most key imo was Sakuraba's debut in UFC Japan 1 due to a weird twist of fate wound up as a last minute replacement in the tournament and subsequently won.

Death Bucket
Jul 19, 2001
Elite member of the Grammar Nazi Squad that

Depends on how you look at it. Pancrase, Shooto and RINGS were all doing their thing and other shows like Vale Tudo Japan were around as well. Thing is, MMA in Japan wasn't HUGE until PRIDE 1. Takada/Rickson was basically Griffin/Bonnar for Japanese MMA.

quote:

(unfortunately Karl didn't teach them the proper proper way to do things, just a bunch of show holds for the most part, but realistic looking show holds that can actually hurt the gently caress out of you.)
Gotch taught his guys hooks as well as show holds, I don't know where that claim is coming from.

Ho Chi Meeeeee
Jun 13, 2008

let me shovel out your brains
hang my image in your skull
so I can be the vision
in your nightmares from now on


Hooks implies they knew how to break tendon and bone (yes, i know submissions do these things but a hook implies that its a submission that is applied with no regard to the opponent truly disabling them, like a heel hook or a double wrist lock that attacks both the forearm and the shoulder), I doubt that Takada knew how to do a sit out top wrist lock and absolutely destroy a dudes arm. Then again, it's Takada.

Alight, I'll stop being pedantic.

Ho Chi Meeeeee fucked around with this message at Feb 2, 2011 around 21:52

jeffersonlives
Jul 22, 2007

"Mathewson pitched against Cincinnati yesterday. Another way of putting it is that Cincinnati lost a game of baseball."


You also get into some weird "what is MMA" parts of the story around here. Earlier organizations like RINGS and Pancrase and Shooto and even very early UFC and PRIDE not only had very much different rules than what we'd now consider MMA but were worked for both outcomes and match excitement to varying degrees.

MMA and pro wrestling were basically the same sport in Japan until the latter stages of PRIDE, and even now there's still a ton of crossover.

Ho Chi Meeeeee
Jun 13, 2008

let me shovel out your brains
hang my image in your skull
so I can be the vision
in your nightmares from now on


in UFC 1 it was literally no rules, no time limit and it made for very...very boring fighting.

niethan
Nov 22, 2005

Don't be scared, homie!


Oh Em Gee posted:

in UFC 1 it was literally no rules, no time limit and it made for very...very boring fighting.

That was mainly due to lovely fighters.

Ho Chi Meeeeee
Jun 13, 2008

let me shovel out your brains
hang my image in your skull
so I can be the vision
in your nightmares from now on


niethan posted:

That was mainly due to lovely fighters.

IIRC Tank Abbot knocked out a guy and openly mocked him while he seized the gently caress up from being actually punched in the face.

Triticum Guzzler
Jun 16, 2002


savinhill posted:

That knockout is the definition of being on queer street.

no, that's the video of thonglor and the possum

fatherdog
Feb 16, 2005

by Lowtax


Oh Em Gee posted:

IIRC Tank Abbot knocked out a guy and openly mocked him while he seized the gently caress up from being actually punched in the face.

John Matua, master of "Hawaiian Bone Breaking", but by the time Abbot came around there were time limits in place already

niethan
Nov 22, 2005

Don't be scared, homie!


Oh Em Gee posted:

IIRC Tank Abbot knocked out a guy and openly mocked him while he seized the gently caress up from being actually punched in the face.

By todays standards Tank is a really lovely fighter though.

Mr. Carlisle
Jul 14, 2007



Oh Em Gee posted:

IIRC Tank Abbot knocked out a guy and openly mocked him while he seized the gently caress up from being actually punched in the face.

During a WCW wrestling pay per view he (unplanned) pulled a knife on a guy and nearly stabbed him in the throat with it as well.

niethan
Nov 22, 2005

Don't be scared, homie!


Mr. Carlisle posted:

During a WCW wrestling pay per view he (unplanned) pulled a knife on a guy and nearly stabbed him in the throat with it as well.

Was it unplanned or was it "unplanned"? Cause pulling a knife on a dude is kind of illegal...

gif Probst
Oct 20, 2006

= the tribe has spoken =


niethan posted:

X kind of illegal...

WELCOME TO PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING~!


please refer to Mass Transit Incident and also New Jack attempting to murder Vic Grimes during a match.

quote:

On March 12, 2000, New Jack (legitimately) suffered brain damage and was temporarily blinded in his right eye, when he and his opponent, Vic Grimes, fell off a balcony, missed the tables that were supposed to absorb the force of their fall and landed on the concrete floor (with Grimes landing on New Jack's head) at Living Dangerously 2000. In a rematch between the two in Xtreme Pro Wrestling (XPW), New Jack threw Grimes from a scaffold, with Grimes plummeting around 40 feet into the ring. The stunt did not work out as planned, as Grimes only landed on one of the twelve tables that were intended to break his fall and ended up dislocating his ankle on the ring rope. In the 2005 documentary Forever Hardcore, New Jack claimed that he had intentionally thrown Grimes too hard in the hopes that he would hit the ring post and for Grimes to be injured or killed, but under further evaluation Grimes can be seen noticeably pushing off the scaffold with his foot which is one of the main factors leading to the botch. Also in the interview, he said that the Living Dangerously accident was his own fault for prematurely pulling Grimes down from the scaffold. Jack has said that Grimes had been going around telling the locker room that he hurt New Jack, until Jack replied by saying "I hurt me."

gif Probst fucked around with this message at Feb 2, 2011 around 22:20

Gramps
Dec 30, 2006



Thanks for giving me credit for my old rear end thread that you plagarized half of your op from ya douche :shakefist:

No hard feelings though. Glad to see the MMA threads growing and finding a new home.

Jack Anderson
Jan 8, 2008



niethan posted:

Was it unplanned or was it "unplanned"? Cause pulling a knife on a dude is kind of illegal...

It was a shoot brother.

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!


niethan posted:

Was it unplanned or was it "unplanned"? Cause pulling a knife on a dude is kind of illegal...

He asked the booker if he could pull a weapon at the end of his match. Assuming that Tank meant a chair the booker agreed. Come the finish Tank pulls out a knife and holds it to the other guys throat and says live on air "You know I could loving kill you right now."

The commentators tried to pass it off as him trying to shave the other guys beard. Sadly he was clean shaven.

Ho Chi Meeeeee
Jun 13, 2008

let me shovel out your brains
hang my image in your skull
so I can be the vision
in your nightmares from now on


Tony Schiavone pretty much ruined WCW for me and it wouldn't surprise me if Tony was the one trying to pass it off as beard shaving.

Ziggy Tzardust
Apr 7, 2006

The only free choice is refusal to pay



Oh Em Gee posted:

Tony Schiavone pretty much ruined WCW for me and it wouldn't surprise me if Tony was the one trying to pass it off as beard shaving.

However did you guess? Maybe it has something to do with tonight being the Greatest night in the history of our sport! (for those not in the know, Schiavone used to say this every loving week)

Also, didn't UFC 1 basically have a guy who's main qualification was some McDojo karate stuff being thrown in as a last-minute replacement for someone else?

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


Giovanni Qobras posted:

no, that's the video of thonglor and the possum

Whoa now, that is too high level an MMA post. You gotta ease into it.

Droopy Goines
Aug 2, 2003

Presented in DTS ES 6.1 where available.

Giovanni Qobras posted:

no, that's the video of thonglor and the possum

hahahahaha

fatherdog
Feb 16, 2005

by Lowtax


Ziggy Tsardust posted:

However did you guess? Maybe it has something to do with tonight being the Greatest night in the history of our sport! (for those not in the know, Schiavone used to say this every loving week)

Also, didn't UFC 1 basically have a guy who's main qualification was some McDojo karate stuff being thrown in as a last-minute replacement for someone else?

That was Fred Ettish in UFC 2.

Interestingly enough, Fred actually went on to train with Pat Miletich, and became an active and fairly well-respected judge and referee in the midwest mma scene. He even fought again last year. He also posts on the Underground (the oldest and probably most popular mma forum on the web (do not go there)) and takes the regular threads about his UFC 2 performance with remarkable good grace.

niethan
Nov 22, 2005

Don't be scared, homie!


Skinty McEdger posted:

He asked the booker if he could pull a weapon at the end of his match. Assuming that Tank meant a chair the booker agreed.

How are such details known? Are they from background sources or speculation or what? Was Tank at least fired directly after the incident?

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!


While on the subject of judges, which officals are the ones that MMA fans groan the world over when they hear they are scoring the fight? I know the name Cecil Peoples only through his bad reputation, are there any others and do MMA judges deserve their terrible reputation?

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Ho Chi Meeeeee
Jun 13, 2008

let me shovel out your brains
hang my image in your skull
so I can be the vision
in your nightmares from now on


Skinty McEdger posted:

While on the subject of judges, which officals are the ones that MMA fans groan the world over when they hear they are scoring the fight? I know the name Cecil Peoples only through his bad reputation, are there any others and do MMA judges deserve their terrible reputation?

Cecil "I really don't watch fights" Peoples.

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