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punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will NEVER become THE PIRATE KING!!! I am just a lazy, hypocritical idiot.


Watched this documentary:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB-CDGsHJ8I

Man the tagline of "New York won't allow the UFC but allows street gangs" sure is... yeah...

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BrotherJayne
Nov 27, 2019

Cum Catapultae Proscriptae Erunt Tum Soli Proscripti Catapultas Habebunt


Is there a thread for discussing betting and/or a bet history contest? (like everybody participating starts with 100 units and then tracks outcomes over the year type thing... I don't remember what that's called tho)

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man



There's a bet on MMA thread, and someone occasionally will run a contest called GOONWEIGHT but the former has been dead for a while and the latter died due to

BrotherJayne
Nov 27, 2019

Cum Catapultae Proscriptae Erunt Tum Soli Proscripti Catapultas Habebunt


CommonShore posted:

There's a bet on MMA thread, and someone occasionally will run a contest called GOONWEIGHT but the former has been dead for a while and the latter died due to

Found 'em, thank you!

Memento
Aug 25, 2009




Bleak Gremlin

If you resurrect them I'd be up for playing a betting game like that.

Watch me go broke three rounds in though

Spokes
Jan 9, 2010

Thanks for a MONSTER of an avatar, Awful Survivor Mods!

Memento posted:

If you resurrect them I'd be up for playing a betting game like that.

Watch me go broke three rounds in though

Ditto and major ditto

BrotherJayne
Nov 27, 2019

Cum Catapultae Proscriptae Erunt Tum Soli Proscripti Catapultas Habebunt


Spokes posted:

Ditto and major ditto

Hells yes! This is the perfect time to start one too, with the first UFC event of 2020 a week out.

Definitely need someone else to start it tho

Artelier
Jan 23, 2015




Crossposting from the general thread before I was pointed to this one:

I peeked into the fitness forums and couldn't find a boxing/martial arts thread, so I thought I'd just ask here: are there any issues to using Muay Thai gloves as boxing gloves?

Just joined a martial arts gym (boxing for me, though there's muay thai, bjj, and taekwondo too). Been borrowing gloves for a week but would much rather have my own! Found some Venum Challengers nearby that doesn't break the bank for me.

Also, I found these Fairtex limited edition gloves, which is, most importantly, ON SALE and is therefore cheaper than the Venum Challengers in the end. And has 16oz in stock, making it a decent all rounder if my understanding of gloves is correct. But! Because they're limited edition, I can't find reviews of this particular model.

Marching Powder
Mar 8, 2008

A group of very serious old men sat around and discussed whether or not I had the requisite dignity and grace of a grand champion.


16oz gloves are widely considered to be the standard training size. You're fine.

Mekchu
Apr 10, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 5 days!


CommonShore posted:

There's a bet on MMA thread, and someone occasionally will run a contest called GOONWEIGHT but the former has been dead for a while and the latter died due to


This is about a month late, but I resurrected the Goonweight thread for those that are interested. It's here: https://forums.somethingawful.com/s...hreadid=3911163

We are 2 events into the season but anyone reading this is free to join in whenever. The next season will begin in May or so.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Artelier posted:

Crossposting from the general thread before I was pointed to this one:

I peeked into the fitness forums and couldn't find a boxing/martial arts thread, so I thought I'd just ask here: are there any issues to using Muay Thai gloves as boxing gloves?

Just joined a martial arts gym (boxing for me, though there's muay thai, bjj, and taekwondo too). Been borrowing gloves for a week but would much rather have my own! Found some Venum Challengers nearby that doesn't break the bank for me.

Also, I found these Fairtex limited edition gloves, which is, most importantly, ON SALE and is therefore cheaper than the Venum Challengers in the end. And has 16oz in stock, making it a decent all rounder if my understanding of gloves is correct. But! Because they're limited edition, I can't find reviews of this particular model.

There is such a thread:
https://forums.somethingawful.com/s...hreadid=3790003

Feel free to post in there for ongoing training commentary / advice / commiseration.


When you're starting out, it absolutely won't be a problem to use kickboxing gloves for boxing.
Boxing gloves have padding concentrated over the knuckles, prioritizing punching (duh). Kickboxing gloves have some extra structure/padding to help shield your hands from kicks, which thins the knuckle padding a bit, but not in a way that would be noticeable when you're starting out.

amenbrotep
Jul 31, 2013



The thumbs of the glove will usually be more flexible in MT too, which is not a huge difference at an entry level, but if you want to get into MT it does effect clinching. In my experience it's way easier to use MT gloves to train boxing than it is the other way around.

Memento
Aug 25, 2009




Bleak Gremlin

This is probably already being talked about in other threads but for those not following them, a bunch of elite combat sports instructors have made their online instructional videos free while the Corona is keeping everyone home.

https://twitter.com/JackSlackMMA/st...236821101060103

https://twitter.com/Carbazel/status/1239911420000702465

Zomblified
Feb 17, 2011

Guess what? You got it for free! Are you proud of yourself?



We were talking about the prominence of low calf kicks and oblique kicks in MMA on Discord and I linked this video.
I've done lots of striking in my life but savate is really where my base is. The martial art definitely has some flaws, mostly due to where the kicks are landing, with a lot of kicks landing with the instep, and everything to do with punching. We condition our feet and compete in reinforced shoes for anyone worried about impact. When I was young I'd think the same thing about shin kicks not realizing they were conditioned. I think savate has a lot to offer and it's interesting that it's techniques have been coming to prominence lately in MMA.

It's an old video and a victim of YouTube compression but I've always liked this one for how it shows practical applications of savate against conventional kick defense.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJKYIzHxs9A

Here's another one showing an oblique kick variation, Chassť Bas. It's gained prominence being thrown from a frontal position by fighters like Jon Jones which would just be referred to as a Chassť.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tuv7JcHjGxY

Balayage kicks, especially effective with shoes on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9NLCagQ7vs

The first UFC runner-up, Gerard Gordeau, a specialist in savate and eye-gouges.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQtemIenEsA



These are the shoes you wear in savate competition. They have felt reinforcement in the toes and heels. Some also have leather reinforcement on the instep though most avoid them as that reduces power but prevents injury. Minor broken bones are pretty common to get from competition as a result, especially the ribs, toes, and small bones of the foot until the latter two have been conditioned. Reinforced toes to the ribs will always suck.

e:spelling and more videos

Zomblified fucked around with this message at 06:27 on Jun 7, 2020

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Zomblified posted:

It's an old video and a victim of YouTube compression but I've always liked this one for how it shows practical applications of savate against conventional kick defense.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJKYIzHxs9A

Yall can skip to 1:50 to start the techniques. And will prob need to crank the sound up. #1 seems pretty familiar tactically, at least feinting into a teep or front kick instead of a more committed sidekick.
#3 seems pretty standard, just a minimally commited high kick that skims along the guard so you don't have to turn over as much to use it.

quote:

Here's another one showing an oblique kick variation, Chassť Bas. It's gained prominence being thrown from a frontal position by fighters like Jon Jones which would just be referred to as a Chassť.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tuv7JcHjGxY
All of these look very familar to how we use sidekicks in Sanshou. Stepping off line and firing back into that lane, jamming the attacker with a sidekick, is a common high level tactic.

His students at 3:45 aren't bothering to chamber their kicks. I've never talked theory with any of my coaches on chambering vs not. My gut is that people who are fast can benefit from fully chambering and getting a really linear foot extension to generate more power. But if you're not fast, then you might as well fudge the chambering and move your foot forward as you execute.

One of the areas that makes drilling sidekicks hard, imo, is the big weight shift difference between landing the kick and not. We were taught to throw the sidekick with a bigger forward/sliding step compared to the advancing chasse bas, but it's hard to drill that by yourself with no pad/bag in front of you to check your momentum. Basically just didn't train linear kicks with as much finesse as savate has.

quote:

Balayage kicks, especially effective with shoes on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9NLCagQ7vs
I've experimented with the coup de pied bas for a while (don't remember where I first saw it), but never got it to really work for me. It's slow because it comes from the rear, and is not that disruptive if your opponent doesn't have much weight on the front foot. You can keep them at punching range when you throw it, but of course they can punch right over the kick. Usually, if my goal is to disrupt their base, I'll wait for them to step in and do a low inside kick as the front leg is moving.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010





This is kind of a random question but I only really watch pro wrestling which of course is fake. But anyway, does anybody here remember the infamous Bart Gunn/Butterbean shoot (real) fight from WrestleMania where poor Bart was KOed in no time?

Apparently somebody at WWF thought Butterbean was a gimmick, just big fat guy nobody took seriously.

Is there any logical reason they thought this? Did he have that reputation....? I don't know anything about boxing but his Wikipedia page record makes him sound decently fearsome.

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9fmrvYXgtY

I want to say this was still a time in the world where mixed martial arts was still being explored. I canít recall if these shoots involved grappling, but the secret to beating a guy like butterbean is stay way outside and take him down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_TkJcMZm6s


e: yeah, the first is just pure boxing and, to answer your question, the result of Vince's hubris. In the second video I posted, Genki Sudo is an actual fighter and you can see how he deals with Butterbean four years later.

Mr. Nice! fucked around with this message at 12:15 on Aug 2, 2020

Eat This Glob
Jan 14, 2008



Lipstick Apathy

Here's a 44 minute doc-ish story about the brawl for all from the wwe. it was the first of that series I ever watched. It was nuts

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7t6731

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

I will NEVER become THE PIRATE KING!!! I am just a lazy, hypocritical idiot.


NikkolasKing posted:

This is kind of a random question but I only really watch pro wrestling which of course is fake. But anyway, does anybody here remember the infamous Bart Gunn/Butterbean shoot (real) fight from WrestleMania where poor Bart was KOed in no time?

Apparently somebody at WWF thought Butterbean was a gimmick, just big fat guy nobody took seriously.

Is there any logical reason they thought this? Did he have that reputation....? I don't know anything about boxing but his Wikipedia page record makes him sound decently fearsome.

The Dark Side of the Ring documentary showed that Bart Gunn winning sabotaged the WWF's plans for another wrestler they've signed on, so they had him fight Butterbean as both punishment and to sabotage his career.

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005



Watching Butterbean KO Gunn again this morning reminded me of Tim Sylvia vs Ray Mercer. Sylvia and Mercer originally agreed to a boxing match, but because Sylvia was obviously not a boxer, the athletic commission wouldn't sanction it. They would sanction it as an MMA match, though, as boxer vs MMA fighter was common enough. Sylvia and Mercer had a gentleman's agreement that they would fight a boxing match inside the cage. Sylvia then reneged and opened the fight with a low kick which disappointed Ray.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUx9OE7DZAo

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


coward

Forceholy
Nov 10, 2007

My Voice Just Echoes Off These Walls


Speaking of Brawl for All, what exactly is Inokism?

CarlCX
Dec 14, 2003

and she walked in
looking like dynamite




Forceholy posted:

Speaking of Brawl for All, what exactly is Inokism?

It was Antonio Inoki's personal philosophy and the way he booked NJPW in the early 2000s, and the succinct version of it is "wrestling should be real again." Inoki saw the boom period of Pride and K-1 in Japan, and the immense celebrity success of pro-wrestler/fighter Kazushi Sakuraba, as an opportunity to bring back the mystique of pro-wrestling by blending it back into real combat sports like he had back in the day. So NJPW started emphasizing shoot-style a lot more and brought real fighters into the promotion to make their wrestlers seem tougher, which, in itself, did not have to be a bad thing.

Unfortunately, he also went the other way and put a ton of pressure on NJPW wrestlers to compete in real fighting. Inoki had already been training Kazuyuki Fujita as a real fighter, and he was relatively successful, which to Inoki meant this was A Good Idea And Everyone Should Do It. So suddenly Yoshihiro Takayama was an MMA fighter despite having very little real training, and suddenly Tadao Yasuda, who had only ever done sumo, was making his MMA debut in his late 30s, and suddenly Inoki was promoting his own personal fight cards where top guy Yuji Nagata was getting butchered by Cro Cop and Fedor for no goddamn reason. Even Shinsuke Nakamura entered the promotion as a blue-chipper Inokiism MMA prospect. And the pressure on the roster to do this was clear, because all of those guys got visibly rewarded for it--most notably Yasuda, who was aging, not particularly good at wrestling and not particularly popular with the audience, but suddenly went from being a midcard guy who lost to Team 2000 a bunch to coming 2nd in a G1 Climax and winning the IWGP championship.

So this was already bad enough, with wrestlers getting injured in real fights in which they tended to look terrible and people getting pushed either because they had MMA fights or were themselves MMA fighters with very little wrestling experience, but then you started getting cards that were openly promoted as mixed wrestling and MMA, where Lyoto Machida would be fighting one minute and Kenta Kobashi would be wrestling the next, which then made the entire "blend wrestling and MMA so wrestling seems more real" thing even weirder because they were being explicitly NOT blended and instead presented side by side as separate things with separate rules.

It was a bad idea that still has a lot of strict defenders (I'm sure MRT will be around any second with a similar post about how it was good and profitable and people who hated it are losers) that is generally looked on as a dark age for NJPW and a key factor in its decline, with attendance falling and their show getting moved to a worse timeslot for flagging interest, and it led directly to Inoki selling his stake in NJPW and getting the gently caress out to go start his own company again.

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005



Inoki did not gently caress around back in the day and reacted poorly when people would no-sell his strikes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL9v0vE8DqY

Jack B Nimble
Dec 25, 2007




Soiled Meat

Mr. Nice! posted:

Sylvia then reneged and opened the fight with a low kick which disappointed Ray.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUx9OE7DZAo

May I never disappoint this man.

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


nobody was exempt from inokiism, not even jushin liger who was booked in a shoot fight against minoru suzuki, and you can visibly see it on both mens faces they don't want to do this fight. liger suspiciously gives up his neck as soon as possible but you cant blame him

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005



Jack B Nimble posted:

May I never disappoint this man.

I don't think I've ever seen a fighter just pause for a "c'mon, son" quite like that in any other fight.

Memento
Aug 25, 2009




Bleak Gremlin

Mr. Nice! posted:

Inoki did not gently caress around back in the day and reacted poorly when people would no-sell his strikes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL9v0vE8DqY

The Great Antonio had a history of no-selling poo poo for all sorts of people

He also had all sorts of undiagnosed mental illness as a result of trauma from WWII, and died penniless on the streets of Montreal

SA Forums Poster
Oct 13, 2018

You have to PAY to post on that forum?!?


The "I'm really fat and large, so that makes me strong and tough" era was great.

Memento
Aug 25, 2009




Bleak Gremlin

Is there a good speed bag kit someone can recommend? Something I can dynabolt to the brick wall in my garage, then put on some hand wraps and smack for five minutes a day. I've got plenty of experience with good professional kits at my gym but we're still at least two months away from opening everything up properly and I really feel the need to work my hands and shoulders.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Thereís a martial arts thread if no one answers here.

Zomblified
Feb 17, 2011

Guess what? You got it for free! Are you proud of yourself?



Memento posted:

Is there a good speed bag kit someone can recommend? Something I can dynabolt to the brick wall in my garage

So not to assume your price range but most of the good adjustable ones you can dynabolt to your wall are ~$300+ for just the platform. A great investment but probably not worth it if you're only going 5 minutes a day. The best cheap as hell option is luckily in stock right now it looks like. The Everlast starter kit with a platform is about as good as it gets for under $250 total investment. You can basically throw everything else in the kit in the trash except for the big platform and the bag but just buying a platform is quite expensive otherwise so it's worth it regardless. The cheapest option if you have time on your hands would be to get A basic everlast swivel and make your own platform for it (unless your garage has a roof that is the perfect height for you) and just buy a decent quality bag to attach to it. I recommend A basic contender fight sports bag. The next step up you're looking at about triple the price if you want a fast bag. Or you could just get a couple amazonbasics bags and destroy them.

If you go with the starter kit I still recommend grabbing the slow bag I recommended above. It's nice to have two around in case something weird happens and the bag I recommended is a great bag to focus on form/timing if that's what you're missing in life.

If you're ballin' get this platform, the bag I mentioned above, and as you get bored of slower/cheaper bags waste money on fast ones.

e:Here's another decent platform without a bag that isnt outrageously priced.
e2:In my region these are often out of stock but it looks like they're in America right now. If you're experienced this bag is incredible for the price. If you're new it's too fast.

Zomblified fucked around with this message at 06:00 on Aug 16, 2020

Memento
Aug 25, 2009




Bleak Gremlin

Thanks for that, that ballin' platform looks awesome but I ended up ordering myself the Everlast kit. The gloves in it look pretty trash but I have that stuff already. Cheers!

KungFu Grip
Jun 18, 2008



wrong thread lmao

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


KungFu Grip posted:

i thought the takeover thunderdome was done better than the main roster thunderdome lol

doesn't touch oildome

Dr. Miracle
Feb 13, 2008

born to shart

JOHN CENA posted:

doesn't touch oildome

Speaking of, what is the oildome thing? I remember that name specifically, but none of the details.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Dr. Miracle posted:

Speaking of, what is the oildome thing? I remember that name specifically, but none of the details.

From a UFC thread 2 years ago:

Untrustable posted:

My brother was in prison for 9 years and told me he would microwave baby oil and put it on the floor of his cell except for the place he was standing. He'd then call out someone in the common area and when they came running in they'd slip and slide and he, standing in the only dry spot, would just pummel them while they tried to gain traction. That's the best base for MMA.

Untrustable posted:

Probably 6 months after he got out I went out on a drive and took him with me and just let him talk about prison. He loved it but he's also probably very mentally ill. Fights could break out due to "heart checks" which is where someone tries to punk you to see if you're an easy target or not. He would react by heating up the baby oil and then talking poo poo from his dry spot. He said eventually it got to the point where no one would come in his cell if he was talking poo poo because they knew what was coming. Since they refused to engage in what was an almost guaranteed beating, they were seen as "bitches" and generally treated worse by the overall population. The only way to win was to enter the oildome and get beaten up to show you weren't a "bitch".

We missed so many visitation days because he was always in solitary. It wasn't limited to the baby oil beatdowns. He was and is still pretty formidable even without a clear advantage. I still give him poo poo though because he came out of prison at a well defined 185 or so and then put on tons of weight which I like to call the "freedom fifty".

Dr. Miracle
Feb 13, 2008

born to shart

Thank you for that. Like meeting a long lost friend again.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010





Why do people hate Don King? I'm not saying there aren't a million reasons, I just legit don't know. He's been the subject of parody and scorn since Rocky V all the way back in 1990 but apparently he was still working with Tyson and stuff well after that. So if he was a crook and everybody knew it, why were they hiring him so he could rip them off?

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JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


NikkolasKing posted:

Why do people hate Don King? I'm not saying there aren't a million reasons, I just legit don't know. He's been the subject of parody and scorn since Rocky V all the way back in 1990 but apparently he was still working with Tyson and stuff well after that. So if he was a crook and everybody knew it, why were they hiring him so he could rip them off?

oh boy

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