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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



CobiWann posted:

Thank you for the OP! As someone who's never followed MMA or K-1, it explained a lot, especially which league/federation is which.

This is a nitpick, but I think the term used the most is organization. Org for short.

I know nothing about pro-wrestling, so I might be talking out of turn here, but an MMA fight (not listed in the OP) that really delivers in terms of characters and hype is Dan Henderson x Michael Bisping. Bisping is the cocky Brit who thinks he can outpoint and outmaneuver Henderson, while Hendo is an archetypical who talks with his hands and makes his 'words' count.

What happens in the fight is just delicious. Try to watch the fight with the prefight build up. Because they're real, MMA fights rarely work out exactly the best way you want them to, but this one definitely did.

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Eat This Glob posted:



After the knockdown, Hendo brings his hand up for a second. While he doesn't actually do so, it's important that you believe that he kisses his fist before doing the diving punch.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



ADRIEN GRODYS FIFE posted:



lil tag i whipped up inspired by the fighting tag.

Nitpick again -- the UFC only uses black gloves (strangely, made by Century, one of the shittier glove companies out there).

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Giovanni Qobras posted:

no, that's the video of thonglor and the possum

Whoa now, that is too high level an MMA post. You gotta ease into it.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



A Pale Horse posted:

you have things like "aggression" and "octagon control" which are completely subjective measures and actually tends to work against good counter strikers who tend to back up to draw their opponents in.

Compare and contrast to the "ring generalship" and "effective aggressiveness" criteria in boxing.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Ghost Head posted:

I just watched a couple of k-1 matches on yt between Andy Hug and Mike Bernardo. I think I'm an Andy Hug fan. I like his silly name

Man I'm like Nancy Regan in here with the nagging, but I just want to make it known that his last name is pronounced Hoog.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



When he was a better fighter, Karo Parisyan had some decent no-gi grip techniques. His osoto gari (and other techniques that would normally involve gripping the sleeve) was done by using the uke's tricep as a handle and tossing him that way.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



A ballshot joke in another thread has me wondering, what's the largest/bulkiest groin protection that you can use and still be legal? Forget comfort or range of motion -- what would the athletic commissions let you wear?

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Maybe this is the right place to through it out there -- there's a lot of Brazilians in MMA, and in Portuguese, an initial R is pronounced as an H, so Royce Gracie is "Hoyce." In other positions, it's just an R.

An initial H is silent, same as Spanish, and initial J isn't an H, but normal J like Jack.

Oh, and the equivalent of is nh. There's diminuitive -inho that works like -ito in Spanish. It shows up in quite a few nicknames for Brazilian fighters.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Halloween Jack posted:

I believe you're thinking of the M-1 event where the ring was on a pontoon moored to a ship, where the audience watched from yachts circling the pontoon. Aleks and Gayhard both fought.

There's also the leitai. It's a traditional fighting in Chinese combat sports. It's gravy when you do it out in the water:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpviclkMdfc
You may remember this platform gimmick from any number of Jet Li movies.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



niethan posted:

It is less probable for me to dominate a dude 10-8 after just having been outworked with two 9-10.

You made it sound like it's really unlikely, but there's no need to color it so.
R1: 1 barely outjabs 2
R2: 1 barely outjabs 2
R3: 2 finally lands haymaker and knocks down 2, finishes with very strong GNP

10-9 rounds can be very close and very uneventful (aka no damage) for both fighters.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



niethan posted:

Surprisingly sometimes improbable things happen.

I don't think you need to make a point that 10-9, 10-9, 8-10 fights are rare, or that a system should/shouldn't be biased for them?

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



mobn posted:

That's actually something I hadn't considered. If the rules called for monitors for judges, it would gently caress over small-time shows who can't afford such equipment, unless the commission also agreed to be the provider of such equipment for smaller shows.

No rules should require monitors. It should be sufficient that there are supplemental rules for how to provide them.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



ACs are free to approve or disapprove of any promotion's rules and general organization. I don't see a problem with a fighter's composite record coming from fights under several rulesets. There will always be controversial decisions, whether or not technological aids are involved. Fighters expect that.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Gomi Pile posted:

so what you are saying is that bjj is powerless against a man who mostly wants to lay upon you motionlessly

congrats, you have rediscovered Frank Shamrock's vaunted Cat Theory of top position.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Xguard86 posted:

The real issue is not guys in the UFC, its the fighters who are coming up that make like 500 bucks a fight. Your early years are when you develop skills, so the less time a pro fighter has to spend not training, the better he will be, long term.

This is not really the UFC's problem or anything one person can fix, but if we want to see athletes on par with sports like Baseball, basketball, football, there needs to be a system for fighters to work to the top.

I wish at the amateur level, promoters had enough cash to cover per diems and bus fare or gas money. That would take the edge off of people scraping just to be able to fight.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Pneub posted:

Just move to Vegas, duh.

Thanks for the flip response to a general issue, I guess? I've known guys who couldn't accept an amateur fight out of state because they couldn't get a ride.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Gomi Pile posted:

agreed. there is no more serious and unfunny problem than somebody not getting his mom's sonata for the weekend.

If I had said judo tournament you would be flipping out.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



words of wisdom from a child.

While it doesn't bother me that amateur fighters have to pay to fight, since most of them won't have long careers, I did wish the distinction between pro and am was more than "here's $50 for this last-minute rescheduled bout, now gently caress off." By the time you're making $5k on the untelevised part of a UFC event, you've probably sunk a couple years pay just trying to make it in the sport. Again, those bus driving jobs must be tempting.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



For sure, all sports are money sinks. But many of them are structured through schools and are just outlets for physical activity. So I imagine way more kids are doing it for fun, and the proportion considering turning pro is much lower.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Gomi Pile posted:

so what is your point? what is your solution? these people participating in this activity (which costs money, just like every other similar activity) with a very high barrier to the professional level (just like every other similar activity) should get paid to play their game? everyone else in a beer league isn't getting paid.

No, I'm just saying fighting is a bit different because it isn't a social/school activity like some sports, so people are more often self-selecting into it.

There's no kiddie MMA that you do at recess, which can grow into middle school and high school team sports, which you can do at college if you're good, just for the scholarship money. There's so little exposure for fighting that I claim it's started later in life by people who are one the whole more serious about it.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Gomi Pile posted:

what is your solution to your problem? should bad fighters get paid a lot of money to practice in front of seven guys?

I didn't say it was a problem; I said it sucked.

And I agree, in the absense of any other combat sport infrastructure, wrestling beats everything.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



shizen posted:

http://o2trainer.gostorego.com/videos.html
so is this thing a gimmick or would it be worth getting?

I'm sure it'd work, but it wouldn't be worth it. Especially not in the context of combat sports. You would get similar benefits and better habits by training and working out with your mouthguard on and breathing as you would in a fight. Running with a mouthguard on is painful

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Pwny_Xpress posted:

The Shamrocks both were catch i think. And i think its mostly cuz BJJ is more versatile.

Frank started training cuz of Ken, and then got thrown in the deep end in Pancrase. So I guess one of the biggest influences on him is the early Japanese MMA style.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



maffew buildings posted:

I think a better question is which Brazilian grappler has the best excuses

Obviously Big Nog. "I got run over by a truck as a child; this explains how the rest of my life unfolded."

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



maffew buildings posted:

Nog getting run over was an inspirational source of strength though, the guy never used it as an excuse, like 'I got jungle fever chasing a rogue pitbull through the Amazon so yeah' or 'I kind of had roofie withdrawals and Jesus made passes at me in the cage'

jokes.jpg

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Bundt Cake posted:

The main guys who would be exceptions to the rule for Sambo are Fedor and Oleg Taktarov.
Sergei Kharitonov trained in combat sambo and did the military version as part of training. I imagine a lot of his ground experience still comes from his time with Red Devil, though.

quote:

Again I'm thinking of Lil Nog, when get got KO'd by like the most basic kickboxing combo of all time against Sokodjou.

I think the issue wasn't the problem of not recognizing the specific combo, but still taking an unknown fighter for granted and having overall defenses down.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



BlindSite posted:

I'm happy to disagree with you and leave it at that.

To make this educational, you or others should find out what the scoring rules are for the stadium title belts in Thailand, and describe what they are in non-Thai MT organizations.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



In Boston, there's sizeable Khmer and Lao populations. Some gyms are really jingoistic about teaching pure Muay Lao and Pradal Serey, not Muay Thai. Lot of history between those countries, obviously.
One of my coaches went to train with the head coach at some Muay Lao gym, and was getting these looks of death for wearing shorts with the Muay Thai script on them. He was about to get thrown out when the head coach cooled everyone down. I'm sure you could confirm the same sentiment if you ventured to the comments section of that video.

But yeah, they pretty much are all the same art.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Sue Denim posted:

I tend to think a lot of MMA guys in this respect would be a lot worse for wear if they had spent an equal amount of time boxing as they had been doing MMA.

You're assuming that MMA fighters would have as bad defense and take more damage in training and fighting if they trained boxing professionally. I think in reality most of them would wash out and the rest would be the same as other boxers.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



The guys who exhibit the most noticeable and effective head movement tend to have the better standup and can actively impose their rhythm and range in the fight. In the recent Chandler x Patricky fight, Chandler was coming in and out and knew when he could get away with a slip under Patricky's combos when coming in. He was great at coming in and then pivoting and exiting at an angle. But he got away with that in large part because he wasn't doing head movement / footwork reactively, but also actively -- setting Patricky up for stuff.

Xguard86 posted:

you might weave your way directly into a nasty shin or kneecap to the dome.

Sorry to be so anal (and I know you only meant it figuratively), but since this is one of those educational threads -- a good knee strike shouldn't land on the patella, but instead with the lower extremity of the femur. It sticks out more and doesn't move around as much when you've got your knee fully folded. Landing a knee strike funny could hurt your patella as badly as it does the other guy.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Thermos H Christ posted:

according to wikipedia you can win a match in the turkish national glistening man game by getting "an effective hold" on your opponent's leather shorts.

Enjoy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31wqGwSfd_E

I feel like there's plenty of folk wrestling arts where the traditional clothing is specifically designed to be held. Glima's like that, off the top of my head:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Os6yZf02Lcw

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



fatherdog posted:

Now what I'd love to see would be Marvin Perry in mma, but we probably won't.

Marvin's injuries are really holding him back. Every so often he feels good and does some rolling or sparring and manages to hurt something. While I'm sure he could stomp some local MMA fighters, I don't think he'd want to restart his career for just a few fights at that level.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Meat Recital posted:

There was probably a certain desire not to have everyone bleeding from cuts on their face, as that kind of cut is a lot more common when striking with bare knuckles.

Yeah, but busted knuckles are way more risky for promotion.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Dennis Hallman promotes his grappling sock, which is legal for MMA and supposedly gives you more traction. I'm not sure why it isn't more popular with grapplers.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Thermos H Christ posted:

OK, now that I actually looked up what a grappling sock looks like I'd say that I actually have seen several fighters wear at least one of those in the cage. As for why more people don't use them, I imagine one reason is that they probably make it a lot harder to slip out of foot/ankle locks.

Be careful to distinguish between an ankle support:


and a grapple sock:


The ankle support, which you see lots of people wear in kickboxing and sometimes in MMA, is for compression and a tiny bit of padding if you land too far down on your shin and onto your instep. It can probably provide grip at the ankles that a grappler might want, but it doesn't have special grip material on the bottom and doesn't go down to the ball of the foot like the grapple sock, which will help more with shots (and perhaps getting leg locked).

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Can someone go into some serious explanation of the etymology? Did they take it from lucha libre and use it for a real martial art? Did it get the name independently (I get that it means free fight)?

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



BlindSite posted:

I don't know much about language but aren't portugese and spanish pretty close in their rooted language?

Yeah, they're the same words. But that doesn't make it clear how luta livre came to be named. Coincidence, derivative, or what?

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



I'd be surprised if there was more than a handful of well-researched history books on the evolution of empty-handed combat. It's a real shame.

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



What about collaborating with Johnny Fistpout aka dokmo? He used to give us all those graphs of fighter stats, fight outcomes, etc.

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