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1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


Burrito posted:

All I want to see in MMA is submissions. Just constant, awesome submissions.

Who should I look out for with that?

Shinya Aoki, Ronaldo "Jacare" Souza, Roger Gracie, Demian Maia, Dustin Hazelett, Charles Olivera.

edit: This is my favorite display of submission grappling in recent times, Demian Maia vs. Chael Sonnen, especially when you consider how much Sonnen (a wrestler) was trashing BJJ prior to this fight. Saying that he was a Republican and they don't do that gay BJJ stuff, then he gets outwrestled and submitted.

http://www.mma-core.com/videos/_Dem...95?vid=10003486

1st AD fucked around with this message at 08:33 on Feb 2, 2011

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1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


Manifest Dynasty posted:

You could probably include some of the basic BJJ stuff like guard, half-guard, a few common submissions, etc.

Also, since there are a few new or casual fans reading this thread, I feel I should note that this Saturday's card will probably be pretty fun and worth the watch. Get some friends to chip in a couple bucks or just find a bar showing it.

Yeah, I think some kind of general grappling FAQ is absolutely needed, because people generally get why things in boxing/kickboxing/muay thai work in MMA but as soon as a fight moves to the clinch or to the ground it's like voodoo. It should include:

-Clinch work, important of underhooks, takedowns from the clinch
-Grappling in a ring vs. grappling in a cage
-All the standard BJJ positions + less common stuff like a top crucifix or rubber guard, why passing and posture are important, etc.
-All the basic joint locks and chokes, maybe a couple obscure ones like gogoplata or peruvian neck ties

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


I always thought hooks made it easier for you to roll or move around, and to flatten your opponent's body out while attempting an RNC. A body triangle is much more restrictive and also makes it harder for your opponent to breathe.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


The bigger problem is that as soon as you get out of Vegas, Jersey, or California, the number of TERRIBLE judges and referees increases exponentially. Bad standups when a fighter is in dominant position, stopping fights way too late, and bad decisions are the standard once you get into places like Texas.

And this is to say nothing of events that go on outside the United States - the most visible example being that one card Hermes Franca fought in Costa Rica where the judges scored the fight for him, the ref was about to raise his hand, but then the promoter decided to give the win to Ferrid Kheder instead because they paid for his sponsorship and training.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


Nick Diaz, vs. Takanori Gomi. I can't find a gif but here's Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FR9gpJJ2qTQ

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


henkman posted:

He's the matchmaker. He chooses who fights who.

To add: Sean Shelby will continue to be matchmaker for the 135 and 145 divisions, as the addition of the WEC fighters increased the number of fighters on the UFC roster.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


I think EAMMA has a much better control system, but overall the game is not polished (the commentators will talk at the same time as the ring announcers, the camera whips back and forth in a motion-sickness inducing nightmare), they don't include all grappling positions or even most standup strikes, and the roster for any MMA game is a joke unless it includes the UFC.

EAMMA has a better create a fighter mode (you can use high res jpegs of a dude's face), better online play in general, and fighter share.

The UFC game's presentation almost exactly matches what their product is like in real life, almost every takedown, submission, and grappling position is represented, and the roster is very deep.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


Hey man, I enjoy fighting George Liddell and Quinton Lesnar over and over and over...

That's one thing that annoyed me - there are a million different name combinations in EAMMA, but the computer never generates more than a handful of unique fighters.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


Mr. Carlisle posted:

With UFC being the only major game in town in some markets do they use some sort of certain method for releasing under performing fighters? Is there some sort of set number of losses that put a fighter into the red zone or something like that?

I assume at this point that they more or less have their pick of talent, right?

Unless you're popular or put on exciting fights, losing 2 in a row is generally enough to get you cut. Some guys might get more fights to turn it around, like Dan Miller or Mac Danzig. On the other hand, if a guy is known to have problems putting on good fights, making weight, or generally being difficult to work with, they can get cut after 1 loss. Efrain Escudero and Gerald Harris are two recent examples.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


Not everyone. A lot of people do it ironically.

The people who do genuinely hate him also love the bad-at-fighting Diaz brothers.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


Perdido posted:

1, What's the deal with UFC cutting guys? I understand that if you lose twice you're cut from the roster (usually) but why is the threshold for losses so low? Are fighters who are signed with UFC receive other benefits, or is it just Dana White (or whoever) wanting to give the illusion that UFC is nothing but the best?

2, My brother sent me this Youtube clip of a fight with a dude who was nicknamed 'the Korean Zombie' against some other dude, who I think is Leonard Garcia. I can't find the particular clip now, but it was basically the two of them beating the hell out of each other. From what I saw, the Korean Zombie had the upper hand for a good deal of the fight, yet wasn't awarded the win. Wikipedia tells me it was a 'controversial' decision, but doesn't explain why Garcia won. Was it a bribe/something shady going on or did he get more style points (?) or something?

1)The UFC can't maintain an infinite roster of fighters, so they'll end up cutting 0-1 and 0-2 guys in favor of signing new prospects who will either sink or swim. This isn't always a hard rule though - they won't immediately cut former champions, and they won't aggressively cut guys in thin weight classes like heavyweight. Also, being cut from the UFC doesn't mean you can't get back in - just pick up a couple wins in Shark Fights or a similar regional promotion and you can get invited back.

2)Judging in MMA can be very, very bad. There are a couple reasons:
-Judges don't know poo poo about MMA because they came from a boxing background
-Judges don't know poo poo because they might not be paying attention (Cecil Peoples)
-Judges sitting at cageside don't get a very clear view of the fight - athletic commissions have resisted attempts to install some type of closed circuit monitoring system
-Athletic commission directors have fostered a culture of judging that discourages 10-10 rounds
-MMA rules can be a bit nebulous, especially when dealing with criteria like "Octagon/cage control" and "aggression"

Basically Leonard Garcia has won a poo poo load of split decisions he should have lost because he looks active, always moving forward and punching. Even if his punches aren't landing, it looks like he's being busy. When you combine poorly-defined criteria that with the culture of judging that discourages judges from awarding draw rounds.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


That happens in every other sport, and you can argue it already happens in MMA.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


The AC's would never go for it because it would paint a target on any official who scored against the public sentiment.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


Giovanni Qobras posted:

if it takes any effort on the part of a sanctioning body it will never happen, this goes for any change

They'll resist change even if they don't have to do poo poo. There was a UFC where either the UFC or one of their sponsors installed a shitload of monitors ringside for the judges to use. Keith Kizer personally disconnected them all.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


Sanchez/Guida could have also gone that way, but judges are bad.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


The Paul Daley thing wasn't really close. Daley struck Koscheck after the bell and Dan Miragliotta immediately pulled him off. Compare that to when Shogun broke his arm after Coleman's takedown attempt and both camps immediately rushed into the ring, not even in the same league.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


I wonder what the scorecards were for the first round of Cyborg/Finney.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


Nick Diaz throws pretty hard punches to the body. I think he threw one that crumpled Scott Smith before he got on top and choked him out.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


mobn just allows all contrary posts to pass underneath him, causing them to lose their momentum

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


Gomi Pile posted:

and once again we all agree that surfing is better than training with the gi

I roll in the same trunks and rash guard I use for surfing

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


I can't think of many industries where your coworkers actually know your salary (unless you tell them).

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


Grifter posted:

Not to get too LF up in here, but this tends to work in favor of the bosses.

This is true, but this is how most businesses here work.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


You can slam a dude off a single leg too!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Zg4qPUOfd0#t=0m19s

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


There was a little beef between them when Wanderlei dropped to middleweight, as Anderson interpreted it as Wandy trying to make a title run (and I guess Chute Box guys find it disrespectful if someone who they've trained with wants to fight them). Words were said between the two and I guess Anderson did a camp with Franklin.

Later on Anderson and Wanderlei made up over dinner (I think Wanderlei realized he was in the downslope of his career and wasn't going to be challenging for any titles).

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


Street Horrrsing posted:

Isn't this essentially the strategy employed in the Aoki/Anime match?

Aoki doesn't have a great chin and started the round off by shooting from several feet away (his wrestling is okay but he doesn't have a shot like Chael or GSP, and his standup isn't good enough to help him close the distance on a K-1 level striker)

The other thing about a gameplan revolving around kneeing a wrestler is that if you aren't fast enough or if the other guy's chin is good enough, they WILL put you on your back. IIRC Mir hurt Brock with a knee in their rematch, but essentially gave Brock a free takedown which he used to finish the fight just a minute later.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


Rulon Gardner has the best wrestling pedigree, he is an NCAA All American and won the Gold Medal in Greco

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


You should probably start by not looking at styles in that way. Most of the top fighters are well-rounded and their styles are unique - for example, Jon Jones and Georges St. Pierre are both dominant wrestlers, but they approach fighting in fundamentally different ways.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


Having knees on the ground would mean more wrestlers would finish fights, IMO. Or at the very least dudes would scramble a lot more instead of hanging on and hoping for a ref standup.

1st AD fucked around with this message at 19:15 on May 9, 2011

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


Anderson's control of range and his head movement is fantastic for MMA, but I don't think he would be very successful in boxing with those same skills.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


Someone should do one on all the greco and judo takedowns. Greco takedowns are awesome, and Judo ones have stupid names that I can never remember.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


Whoa that USA Wrestling site rules.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


MW seems to be filled with guys who couldn't hack it at LHW - Stann, Munoz, Wandy ( ), probably others I'm missing right now.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


Shane del Rosario did one in Strikeforce.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


I thought Akebono tapped to the wristlock.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


Shogun used to open up fights with dumb flashy kicks

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


Phyzzle posted:

While most Kung Fu consists of essoteric traditions, there are some sparring-heavy schools. San Shou is a sport/martial art with a curriculum derived from Kung Fu. Cung Le was quite successful in MMA with that style. Kung Fu practitioners sparring tend to look like Dominick Cruz, constantly facing different directions. No idea if he's got any of his style from that, though.

Judo is well represented, but Greco-Roman wrestling has had a lot more success. It's mainly because Judo guys train with gis, and maybe also because Judo would emphasize throws that will work on a larger opponent. (Wrestlers have a knack for picking someone up with the sheer force of their lower back muscles, which wouldn't make sense in self-defense without weight classes).

Anyway, Judo, it works bitches.


1)You see way more double and single leg attacks from wrestlers than you do suplexes in MMA.
2)Cung Le is not at all successful in MMA unless you call going 1-1 against Scott Smith and losing rounds to a crippled Frank Shamrock successful.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


mobn posted:

Wrestling only works against pretend fighting like BJJ. It has no use against real fighting like knives

The Fitch disagrees

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYGUoZyJs18

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


theDOWmustflow posted:

MMA question #2: How big of a piece of poo poo is Chael Sonnen for Anderson Silva to do stuff like this:

I've only just recently started following MMA again (stopped around 2008ish) but I remember Anderson Silva being a class act back in Pride.

Chael did the same thing to Anderson following a press conference the week of the fight.

1st AD fucked around with this message at 08:29 on Sep 19, 2011

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


Thermos H Christ posted:

i'm 99% sure he means "top control"

Even if that were the case, I can't easily think of times where they were getting swept or just had really inert top games.

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1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


Chute Box no longer exists because a lot of fighters like Anderson Silva thought sparring hard was stupid. It lives on in spirit at Kings MMA, where Chute Boxe trainer Rafael Cordeiro trains Shogun, Wandy, and Werdum (other guys like Munoz and Mayhem also train there).

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