|
Waterhaul posted:This thread is to discuss all things related to the non stop bad guy killing machine that is Frank Castle and celebrate the fact that PunisherMax #010 finally comes out next week loving wootles. Also, Ennis only did MAX #1-60, not 61. Xenomrph: Volume 9, Long Cold Dark, is seriously the best Punisher MAX story. There's a scene in it that made everyone read it just go "gently caress."
|
#
¿
Feb 3, 2011 18:13
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 24, 2024 06:54 |
|
|
E the Shaggy posted:That's up to debate, as I still consider The Slavers the best Punisher MAX story. In terms of artwork and story all around. Slavers was just Frank getting more upset than he usually does because of the severity of the crime. Long Cold Dark ones up it by having it be the first time since his family died that he's affected personally. There's a bunch of scenes where he talks about how he feels about having to defend his daughter, and how it feels to worry about someone else once again. And at the end, he muses on what his life has become as he walks away from his last experience with anything approaching normalcy, possibly forever. Basically, what Slavers does in being a great story about Frank loving things up, Long Cold Dark destroys in being a great story about Frank loving Frank up/ The last couple of pages are flat fantastic and would have made a much better cap on the run than Valley Forge, if it wasn't for Ennis feeling the need to wrap poo poo up with the generals and do his Vietnam story. Also, Parlov's artwork is awesome and I'd read an entire Punisher series by him. Spoilered for Xenomrph. BENGHAZI 2 fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Feb 3, 2011 |
|
#
¿
Feb 3, 2011 18:46
|
|
|
Yeah, I don't necessarily think Valley Forge was a bad ending, but Long Cold Dark could have been a better one.E the Shaggy posted:I seem to recall that Frank doesn't kill anyone in Valley Forge. I thought that was kind of a nice change of pace. He kills the generals, but it's off-page. He just beats the poo poo out of the other dudes when they come after him.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 3, 2011 19:20
|
|
|
Tato posted:As much flack as the undead demon Punisher gets, I thought the previous volume by John Ostrander in which the Punisher grows a ponytail and joins the loving mafia was even worse. The justification makes no sense and they quickly abandoned it so Frank could join S.H.I.E.L.D., but the volume was misguided from start to finish. An interesting read if you want to see how dire Marvel became during the EDGE period. They kind of wrote themselves into a corner at the end of the 2nd volume with the whole "Punisher accidentally killed an innocent!" plotline and never recovered until the Ennis run. Girls In White Dresses handles it best, beacuse he beats himself up over it, realizes what happens, adn goes "Well now I'm gonna gently caress a bitch up twice as hard for making me think that." redbackground posted:I'm thinking of the whole crew of that boat he blew up and/or fed to sharks during the first Barracuda arc. I can't imagine they were all in on the power company's scheme--didn't seem to matter to him at all, though. See I rolled with this: The dude who finds Frank tells him "we're all in on it at some point", and you figure that a party like that is gonna be the upper echelon and not Bob from Accounts Payable, and it's easy to assume that the people on that boat were in on it.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 3, 2011 21:37
|
|
|
Hey I love Duane Polishname a hell of a lot but to say it's better than much of Ennis' run is a stretch. I still don't entirely get what's going on in that plot. Everyone was busy backstabbing everyone else, and Frank's just trying to kill people. That whole thing goes WHOOSH when I try to read it.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 4, 2011 01:07
|
|
|
I can spell it, I just enjoy making fun of other Polish names. And yeah I'm not saying any of those arcs are bad, but none of them are as good as Ennis' run. The best was probably Welcome to the Bayou because it was the closest to Ennis' in tone: Frank finds a hosed up situation. Frank fucks it up worse. Frank kills bitches. The end. Also, #75, the miscellaneous story issue? That was loving rad.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 4, 2011 04:11
|
|
|
Dr. Hurt posted:That sounds absolutely dreadful. This is just a reminder of how lucky we are to live in an age where we get to chose between our Punishers being a horrible shambling monster or a horrible remorseless killer. The age of Punisher. Pretty much the best criticism of Kitchen Irish. It's more about giving Ennis a chance to yell about the Irish and the British than it is a Punisher story. Not that it's bad, just not nearly the best MAX story. That's either Long Cold Dark or Mother Russia. Why Mother Russia? One panel: When Fury joins Frank and tells the soldiers to go for it and everyone's response is "gently caress this." e: Re: Born, I used to see it as Frank making a deal with the devil, with his family being the price, but now I'm firmly in the camp of him making a deal with himself: "My family isn't here, so I can do what I want, but once I'm with them, I'm done", and that one taste is what drove him after the picnic to be, y'know, a serial killer. BENGHAZI 2 fucked around with this message at 14:05 on Feb 4, 2011 |
|
#
¿
Feb 4, 2011 14:03
|
|
|
As I read Welcome Back, Frank, for the first time, I realize what my favorite thing about Ennis is: His insistence on using the same barman (who may or may not be Cassidy!) whenever he can. Seriously, the dude, who writes foul words in the foam in guinness when asked for a shamrock, shows up at least here and in The Boys, and now I'm tempted to go hunting for other appearances. e: He changes the name in Punisher, though. Whatever. Same drat character.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 4, 2011 23:00
|
|
|
You know, I should really read Hitman at some point shouldn't I?
|
|
#
¿
Feb 4, 2011 23:49
|
|
|
The Action Man posted:It would also be nice if DC actually put the entire series in trades. Wiki says they've been rereleasing them since last year. e: According to Amazon, volume 2 hits next month! That's not a delay at all BENGHAZI 2 fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Feb 5, 2011 |
|
#
¿
Feb 5, 2011 00:59
|
|
|
I'm rereading Valley Forge because I haven't since the singles came out, and something caught my eye: In one of the text sections, he directly references DC. "Imagine Clark Kent played by Jimmy Stewart." Not a big thing, but odd, seeing as it is Marvel.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 5, 2011 02:59
|
|
|
The Action Man posted:Was that a description of the very Morgan Freeman-like Special Ops CO? Nope. Description of the brother of the guy writing the book that served as a backdrop for the story.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 5, 2011 16:22
|
|
|
PunisherMAX 10 is out today. WHat's the verdict, I won't hit the shop till tomorrow.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 9, 2011 22:26
|
|
|
Yeah well if it gets back on track next month I won't mind too much. Is the tease for next month/arc any good?
|
|
#
¿
Feb 10, 2011 15:34
|
|
|
Oh snap. I thought it was another five issue arc, like Kingpin. Menonite: Greatest dude to try to kill the Punisher, or greatest dude to try to kill the Punisher? Pretty sure the scene where he tails Frank in a buggy is the best ever.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 10, 2011 16:42
|
|
|
I like that Bullseye was keeping up the crazy talk the entire team he beat dudes down. Amazing.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 10, 2011 21:25
|
|
|
Punisher War Zone was a lame-o movie after the Jane one. Also I think you mean IRA, not NRA.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 10, 2011 22:14
|
|
|
Read that a ton. Mostly about Ghost Rider, though. Part of it was Danny realizing he didn't need the bike to transform.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 10, 2011 23:32
|
|
|
Dr. Hurt posted:When you really get down to it though, does the Punisher need a movie to explain his origin? He's the Punisher, he Punishes people. I think you could make a cerebral movie that involves what psychologically pushes the Punisher, while keeping the violence up to Punisher Max levels. It doesn't even explain what he does, it takes the character's actions in a new and kinda more interesting direction. The director said straight out "I didn't want him to just kill people. That's not punishment. That's execution. So I had him actually punish Saint, by making him turn his own life into a hell." That's loving cool. That's punishment. "I made you kill your wife. I made you kill your best friend. And now, I'm going to kill you."
|
|
#
¿
Feb 11, 2011 15:00
|
|
|
Mad Doctor Cthulhu posted:You don't think War Zone is over the top? The whole thing is insane. The rocket hitting the guy in mid-jump wasn't nuts? Nothing can be as insane as the Crank series, but certainly you don't think this movie was made to be completely serious. After they do Ghost Rider 2, Neveldine and Taylor need to do Punisher. TheJoker138 posted:They mixed too much serious crap in it that I got the impression it had no idea what it wanted to be. Sure you had the over the top action, but then they mixed it with stuff like Frank being super sad about killing the undercover cop and all that bullshit. Bonus points if all his lines were just thinly veiled rewrites of his lines in Beverly Hills Cop.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 11, 2011 17:30
|
|
|
TheJoker138 posted:This seems to be what the current MAX series is. If Bullseye makes it out of this arc alive I'll be shocked. They've toned the "super" part way down, he's just a really awesome assassin. And I like that the current series is really Frank and Fisk squaring off, much better than the nebulous "well the generals" big bad.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 12, 2011 15:13
|
|
|
Mister Roboto posted:Ironically, that might be one thing that WOULD get to Frank, as even though he's a mechanical killer, children seem to bring out his buried soft side. Wait wait wait whoa what was this from? Marvel Knights after Welcome Back Frank or what? ChuckDHead posted:I'm glad I wasn't the only one that thought that. We got even more censorship in the PAL version,, where instead of a black and white kill animation, the camera would jerk away at the moment the criminal was shoved into the grinder/woodchipper/piranha tank/toilet/ceiling fan/industrial laser, in a sort of "you can't see this" way. Oddly, it was strangely effective at conveying that something incredibly nasty was going on... What you imagine is almost always worse than what someone is willing to show. Hitchcock 101.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 20, 2011 16:56
|
|
|
Manwithastick posted:Punisher Max: Mother Russia Part 6 I believe It's probably part 5, which would be 17. For some reason I think there's another issue after the fight. I also forgot about the Mongolian being in that arc though, so take it with a grain of salt.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 21, 2011 01:56
|
|
|
It also helps to remember that, in Long Cold Dark, Frank's first priority is the baby. Killing Barracuda will have to wait until he's made sure that she's OK. Also, who would have thought that frying someone's balls for half an hour wouldn't keep them down! Speaking, of which, the page when he does this is one of the few times we really see Frank enjoy his work. "A half-hour's drive later I had the jump leads clamped to the skin of his balls and I'd been turning the ky in the ignition for fifteen minutes and he'd poo poo all over himself and the world was a beautiful place." Easily my second favorite moment in the series, right behind the last two pages. BENGHAZI 2 fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Feb 22, 2011 |
|
#
¿
Feb 22, 2011 16:34
|
|
|
The Baby On Board is cool because it's a fun example of a barcode replacer for a direct subscription. A lot of the time it was just "generic Marvel thing" but that? That's awesome.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 23, 2011 06:46
|
|
|
Was there a last-page setup for the next arc/have we seen solicits yet? I'm just curious, I won't get the book till tomorrow.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 10, 2011 01:13
|
|
|
E the Shaggy posted:Man do I ever want to know What Frank's last words to Maria were. Like someone said, it's probably a variation on I'm finally free I mean, MAX as a whole and Aaron's in particular have been working around the idea that Frank wanted it to happen, because it gave him an excuse to cut loose. It's why I like the interpretation of Born that it wasn't some supernatural being offering him a deal, it was the little voice in his head that he had kept quiet for his whole life, that he knew he wouldn't be able to silence again if he let it out.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 10, 2011 16:04
|
|
|
FoneBone posted:Wasn't there some Ennis issue where he has a nightmare about how "it was a rainy day, and we didn't go to the park"? It's not a nightmare, but yeah, the first issue of Long Cold Dark. They don't go to the park, and Frank gets old and out of shape and complacent, and everything is OK. His kids and grandkids visit on a regular basis, and he's the patriarch of a loving family. Then he wakes up.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 10, 2011 18:58
|
|
|
Gassire posted:Was that the one from Fraction's run? Because Frank's midget arms will haunt me to my grave, I hate Chaykin. No, that was Chaykin doing art for one issue of Ennis' book. Why? I don't know. Parlov did the rest of Long Cold Dark (something about his art sold that arc for me), but Chaykin did numero 50.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 12, 2011 05:16
|
|
|
Javid posted:He tries to look like a random dockworker or whatever. He says as much in the narration for Mother Russia. It's more of a slam at blonde-haired, blue-eyed Vanheim and how he doesn't blend in at all, but yeah.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 14, 2011 23:49
|
|
|
Mister Roboto posted:I have a feeling we'll be seeing a bit more of that in the next decade as all the war-based characters have to be updated for the new generation. Haven't they already retconned Tony Stark's war origin to be a more modern one? Yeah, moved to Desert Storm I think.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 21, 2011 00:13
|
|
|
Gassire posted:I can see it, I'm still pretty sure Nick Cave is actually a Garth Ennis character. Dude once got so high on heroin he bought a leather tuxedo and wore it for five days straight without taking it off or showering, while riding around in a van with Henry Rollins during a South California summer. This is the best story.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 23, 2011 17:02
|
|
|
Someone mentioned Parlov drawing using actors as reference points earlier, and was wondering about who else there was besides not-Morgan Freeman. Barracuda mini has a not-Brando as the head of a crime family, and if you don't read his lines as being delivered by Don Corleone than I don't know what to tell you.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 23, 2011 21:49
|
|
|
LtKenFrankenstein posted:Hm, I'm not sure of the not-Brando you're referring to, but there's one character that's unmistakably Christopher Walken. Is it Oswald's father? That's the one I was thinking of, but Walken works better for him anyway.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 23, 2011 22:01
|
|
|
Mister Roboto posted:Well, Ultimate Punisher is slightly darker than his 616 incarnation. He's still the vigilante, but since a corrupt cop caused his family's death, he now hunts corrupt cops. He's also a loving sadist, as evidenced by his scene in the second issue of Ultimates vs Avengers
|
|
#
¿
Apr 20, 2011 19:05
|
|
|
The point is that Vietnam didn't make Frank into the Punisher. He was that way before he left, Vietnam just set him free, much like his family dying did after he came home. That's why you have all the comparisons between him being imprisoned after being the Punisher now and him coming home from Vietnam. I have to say, I really like Aaron's almost character study arcs using their titular characters as focal points. Of course, this one is going to end with Frank killing that Big Jesus dude and deciding that he can still be the Punisher, but that doesn't mean the ride won't be incredible.
|
|
#
¿
May 12, 2011 02:29
|
|
|
picosecond posted:Anybody still reading the MAX Punisher? I thought the first part of "Frank" was amazing, the second part was somewhat weaker. I wasn't too happy with the end, because I prefer the idea that Frank's almost completely self-made instead of the pet of a government agent. Still, not bad and it really brings home the notion that Frank is made for war and nothing else. It's not that he's a pet, it was in him from the start. War didn't change him, it freed him.
|
|
#
¿
May 22, 2011 18:26
|
|
|
Sprecherscrow posted:It's like Ennis wrote in "The Tyger", "They'll blame it all on Vietnam. And they'll be right. And they'll be wrong." Exactly. He was always the Punisher. He was always a man who was very good at killing people. Vietnam gave him a place to realize his unique skills and passion, and provided him with a neverending supply of "bad guys" to kill, but it didn't make him INTO the Punisher. As far as Fury's involvement in it goes, I like the idea that Fury's just been keeping an eye on him since Valley Forge, and when he's freed again Fury decides to use him much like we saw in Ennis' run.
|
|
#
¿
May 22, 2011 18:45
|
|
|
picosecond posted:Seriously, the last two pages left me with a "lead fishing weights in my stomach" feeling. Frank is just horribly damned. Seriously, either he gets blown the gently caress up or he accepts his past and what he is, tosses it back, and goes on a killing spree. Either way, he's hosed.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 14, 2011 04:37
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 24, 2024 06:54 |
|
|
I didn't think they had actually revealed what his last words to her were.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 14, 2011 20:42
|
|