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Defenestrategy
Oct 24, 2010

Worst decision I ever made.


Tacos Al Pastor posted:

What are your guys's favorite Judo setups? I would love to hear some osoto gari and harai goshi setups as those are the two I am working on the most

I think the double sleeve osoto looks real slick, but I've never been able to accomplish it on anyone who knows any sort of standup.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr5EcG-blY0

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JaySB
Nov 16, 2006





Anything that allows me to get to a single leg.

Tacos Al Pastor
Jun 20, 2003


Defenestrategy posted:

I think the double sleeve osoto looks real slick, but I've never been able to accomplish it on anyone who knows any sort of standup.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr5EcG-blY0

That is slick. He pulls that left arm while pulling the right arm down. Nice setup. Keeping this one in mind to try.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

Tacos Al Pastor posted:

What are your guys's favorite Judo setups? I would love to hear some osoto gari and harai goshi setups as those are the two I am working on the most

I've been making good use lately of the Jimmy Pedro osoto opening setup. Get a tight cuff grip, drive your opponent's wrist to their own hip as you get the lapel. If they push back with that hip and fight your grip, drive for osoto. If the osoto sticks, point your toe down, pivot on your posting leg, and go for harai. If the osoto misses (due to the opponent moving their leg out of the way), hit an o uchi and then follow through on the ko uchi/turning throws sequence as you prefer. If the opponent reacts to the wrist pin to the hip by giving way, sweep the other leg with a murderous o uchi and then follow through on that as above.

ihop
Jul 23, 2001
King of the Mexicans

Tacos Al Pastor posted:

That is slick. He pulls that left arm while pulling the right arm down. Nice setup. Keeping this one in mind to try.

I like doing a similar one off the grip. I like to grab my opponent's right sleeve near the elbow, shove it across their torso towards their left shoulder. Their own arm blocks their view of my left leg coming across for the osoto, and also causes them to cross up their hips and shoulders, making their balance very weak. Grab a handful of left lapel or shoulder with the right hand to secure their torso and reap with the osoto. If you shove the arm down and across it works well to set up a kouchi -> ankle pick.

I also like using ippon seoi to set up osoto. I always liked throwing ippon seoi, but if my opponent starts blocking it by hipping into me I come in for the ippon seoi grip, t-step and everything, then switch to an osoto reap and take them backwards, keeping the ippon seoi grip. The harder they're blocking the seoi the easier the osoto is.

Nestharken
Mar 23, 2006

The bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.


Lately I've been baiting the single leg to set up a sumi gaeshi. The hardest part is getting someone to take the bait more than once or twice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnlZ75cniig

SHOAH NUFF
Nov 14, 2005

Blood Clots
Sweat Dries
Bones Heal
Suck it Up and Keep Wrestling


We learned single leg counter in high school wrestling except if you do it right and sit back on your leg you should end up on top of them in mount

KingColliwog
May 15, 2003

Let's go droogs

Tacos Al Pastor posted:

What are your guys's favorite Judo setups? I would love to hear some osoto gari and harai goshi setups as those are the two I am working on the most

For judo or adapted to bjj?

Tacos Al Pastor
Jun 20, 2003


ihop posted:

I also like using ippon seoi to set up osoto. I always liked throwing ippon seoi, but if my opponent starts blocking it by hipping into me I come in for the ippon seoi grip, t-step and everything, then switch to an osoto reap and take them backwards, keeping the ippon seoi grip. The harder they're blocking the seoi the easier the osoto is.

Interesting. Im trying to see the setup for this in my head.

KingColliwog posted:

For judo or adapted to bjj?

Im interested in both. Although for Jiu Jitsu everyone is bent over so the takedown setups are a little different. In my judo class everyone is standing up straight.

Nestharken posted:

Lately I've been baiting the single leg to set up a sumi gaeshi. The hardest part is getting someone to take the bait more than once or twice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnlZ75cniig

Oh man I love this one and I have hit it a few times. Its even easier in the gi. Just reach over real hard and grab the belt.

ihop
Jul 23, 2001
King of the Mexicans

Tacos Al Pastor posted:

Interesting. Im trying to see the setup for this in my head.

Around 46 seconds into this video

It looks/feels like an easy counter but as long as you set up and sell the ippon seoi it's very effective.

Edit: the other version I was talking about is at 2:30.

ihop fucked around with this message at Feb 21, 2019 around 04:35

Tacos Al Pastor
Jun 20, 2003


ihop posted:

Around 46 seconds into this video

It looks/feels like an easy counter but as long as you set up and sell the ippon seoi it's very effective.

Edit: the other version I was talking about is at 2:30.

ok I see how hes doing it now.

This video is great. It shows all kinds of osoto setups with different grips.Thanks for sharing this.

SHOAH NUFF
Nov 14, 2005

Blood Clots
Sweat Dries
Bones Heal
Suck it Up and Keep Wrestling


I know it was mentioned a few pages ago as an advanced technique so hereís a cool video of a guy using his own arm to triangle someone, who is attempting to do a double-under guard pass it seems

https://www.instagram.com/p/BuHs0vC...d=1d1bpbl8i4b1k

Tacos Al Pastor
Jun 20, 2003


edit: I like that ^^^^

I had an interesting roll with a dude today that was at least 6'6" and 275lbs, new white belt. I had him inside my guard and he wrapped my head with his arm and placed the his other hand on my forehead. My first instinct was to frame to create a little space which I did ( was also thinking sleeve choke). Ended up trying my omoplata setup from guard, botched it and then caught his leg in half. Put the lockdown on, then he triangled my leg and I swept him over with my other leg. I ended up in a mount after escaping his half guard and arm barred him. He told me afterward that he was hoping on "tiring me out" by being on the bottom trapping me like that. It did frustrate me a little.

Kind of nice knowing that this works on dudes that are even bigger than me (6'2" 240).

Mel Mudkiper
Jan 19, 2012

Is it a Pittsburgh fan?
Is it a Denver fan?
Who can say?

I have a lat strain I have spent the last week resting and it is making me feel like absolute poo poo.

Like, I know bjj is lifelong, I know it's better to rest an injury than risk it getting worse, but I still feel like I am a weakling or a coward for not going. Like, I am constantly worrying if I am just making excuses even when I genuinely have trouble getting to sleep because it hurts.

Drewjitsu
Sep 2, 2007

Muay Thai is great but Buttscoot-Shin-to-Balls Style is undeniably better.


Mel Mudkiper posted:

I have a lat strain I have spent the last week resting and it is making me feel like absolute poo poo.

Like, I know bjj is lifelong, I know it's better to rest an injury than risk it getting worse, but I still feel like I am a weakling or a coward for not going. Like, I am constantly worrying if I am just making excuses even when I genuinely have trouble getting to sleep because it hurts.

BJJ is 4 lyfe. Relax and heal up.

You also want to be able to wrestle your kids in the future too (if you so choose), so yeah, don't burn yourself out.

Jack B Nimble
Dec 25, 2007



Soiled Meat

Got my first stripe today; and after letting myself get frustrated for the last couple of classes, too. Feels kind of shameful in retrospect.

Now if I can just make time to read the drat Book Barn book of the month I'll really be making some progress.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


Mel Mudkiper posted:

I have a lat strain I have spent the last week resting and it is making me feel like absolute poo poo.

Like, I know bjj is lifelong, I know it's better to rest an injury than risk it getting worse, but I still feel like I am a weakling or a coward for not going. Like, I am constantly worrying if I am just making excuses even when I genuinely have trouble getting to sleep because it hurts.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

Jack B Nimble posted:

Got my first stripe today; and after letting myself get frustrated for the last couple of classes, too. Feels kind of shameful in retrospect.

Now if I can just make time to read the drat Book Barn book of the month I'll really be making some progress.

The poo poo you learn on the way to that first stripe is the most valuable stuff. Congrats!

Mel Mudkiper
Jan 19, 2012

Is it a Pittsburgh fan?
Is it a Denver fan?
Who can say?


Yeah I am meeting my doctor next week

Jack B Nimble posted:

Got my first stripe today; and after letting myself get frustrated for the last couple of classes, too. Feels kind of shameful in retrospect.

Now if I can just make time to read the drat Book Barn book of the month I'll really be making some progress.

Congrats, now go read a book about loving bears

spacetoaster
Feb 10, 2014



Mel Mudkiper posted:

Congrats, now go read a book about loving bears

Don't do that. They're selfish lovers.

Shadow225
Jan 2, 2007






The answer is probably no, but is there a general 'road map' to BJJ, at least for a white belt? I try to make class twice a week, which means that I do miss a lot of things in they link concepts. Most of the time, I feel like they don't link concepts between classes. One instructor doesn't really link concepts in class. Anywho, I want to try and get a sense for what I should know so that I can supplement knowledge in between classes if possible.

Along those lines, if anyone has a good channel for YouTube stuff that is actually applicable, I would like to hear as well.

Mel Mudkiper
Jan 19, 2012

Is it a Pittsburgh fan?
Is it a Denver fan?
Who can say?

Shadow225 posted:

The answer is probably no, but is there a general 'road map' to BJJ, at least for a white belt? I try to make class twice a week, which means that I do miss a lot of things in they link concepts. Most of the time, I feel like they don't link concepts between classes. One instructor doesn't really link concepts in class. Anywho, I want to try and get a sense for what I should know so that I can supplement knowledge in between classes if possible.

Along those lines, if anyone has a good channel for YouTube stuff that is actually applicable, I would like to hear as well.

When you say link concepts, what do you mean?

Like, I can give you a list of poo poo I learned so far that I wish had been more clearly said

-Never engage the guard unless you have to
-If you pull guard, make sure you have a grip and control on the opponent before you even consider going to your back
-If you are in someone's guard, keep your back up and your elbows inbetween their legs.
-If you are in someone's guard, don't try for a cross collar grip
-Dont ever lay flat in half guard or when someone has you in side control
-Shrimp mother fucker
-You can stand up when in someone's guard

SHOAH NUFF
Nov 14, 2005

Blood Clots
Sweat Dries
Bones Heal
Suck it Up and Keep Wrestling


A black belt at my academy told me this when I asked something similar:

when you are rolling (esp when not both standing) one guy will usually go forward, one guy will usually sit back in some form of guard. As a white belt, develop a sequence of simple, fundamental moves for both, and work them over and over. So for going forward, I am focusing on learning passing guard -> getting into side control -> retaining side control. You can chain -> going to mount to that as well. Work each of those concepts on their own and you will notice they naturally chain together, like if you pass someone's guard you likely will be in side control. So now how do you keep it and not instantly get pulled back into their guard?

For going back, learn how to retain guard -> if passed into side control, how to frame properly so you can bump/shrimp back into guard or get to knees -> if mounted how to reverse into top guard position. The second chain has a lot of defense and reversals because as a white belt most guys will be passing your guard quickly. So that is how to chain concepts together, at least that is how I work at it.

I personally am not too focused on learning submissions, but the kimura from side control is a nice and easy one and John Danaher has a free youtube on how to do it properly, with nothing too complex for white belts like us. I told the black belt that I had been having success with kimuras and he agreed that it is a great submission for white belts to learn because you can use it to control someone's body into a reversal or better position even if you can't lock the submission up

two other things that really "unlocked" things for me as a white belt:

- you don't have to start a roll in someone's closed guard, and don't think of closed guard as a neutral position like I stupidly did as a beginner. A brown belt once told me that a prime goal should be never, ever to get into someone's closed guard and once I internalized that it helped.

- spend a lot of time drilling mount escapes. Weirdly for me they are simpler than side control escapes. Once you drill mount escapes a ton you will no longer panic or stress when mounted. I think learning to relax when mounted is a big step, at least it was for me.

SHOAH NUFF fucked around with this message at Feb 22, 2019 around 16:21

Shadow225
Jan 2, 2007






Mel Mudkiper posted:

When you say link concepts, what do you mean?

Like, I can give you a list of poo poo I learned so far that I wish had been more clearly said

-Never engage the guard unless you have to
-If you pull guard, make sure you have a grip and control on the opponent before you even consider going to your back
-If you are in someone's guard, keep your back up and your elbows inbetween their legs.
-If you are in someone's guard, don't try for a cross collar grip
-Dont ever lay flat in half guard or when someone has you in side control
-Shrimp mother fucker
-You can stand up when in someone's guard

Linking concepts between classes would be something like this week, we are focusing on escaping side control. Linking concepts within a class would be like, drill an escape from side control, then drill a submission from that escape, then drill a submission that you can apply if the previous submission was blocked.

For a general answer, linking concepts in my mind would mean teaching techniques that are all related to one central theme.

One of the instructors is kind of all over the place. In one class, we drilled a set up for two different takedowns from standing, which did not include how to finish the takedown. Then we jumped to transitioning into ankle locks and heel hooks from blocking a butterfly sweep. Then we had some situationals where one guy is in position for a single leg and the pair is working to either complete it or block it. Then we went into a guard passing situational. Maybe it is a product of MMA guys being in that class, but I didn't really feel any cohesion there.

I actually feel guilty because I ended up doing some pretty bad damage to a purple belt's shoulder in the single leg situational. I have never been taught how to do a single leg in my life, so I was winging it. I couldn't bring him down, so I swept his plant leg. He ended up lawn darting shoulder first into the mat. I take some responsibility for drilling a move that I did not know how to complete, but why am I told to do a move that hasn't been taught? Purple belt was very gracious and showed me how to do it properly instead of 'getting me back' as the instructor put it, but maybe let's do that part before I send a guy to surgery.

Anyway, I want to make sure that my game is complete such that I can protect myself and my partners. Accepting all pointers, but I also want a general plan to work towards since my corpulent body only really allows two days a week.

Mel Mudkiper
Jan 19, 2012

Is it a Pittsburgh fan?
Is it a Denver fan?
Who can say?

Shadow225 posted:

I actually feel guilty because I ended up doing some pretty bad damage to a purple belt's shoulder in the single leg situational. I have never been taught how to do a single leg in my life, so I was winging it. I couldn't bring him down, so I swept his plant leg. He ended up lawn darting shoulder first into the mat. I take some responsibility for drilling a move that I did not know how to complete, but why am I told to do a move that hasn't been taught? Purple belt was very gracious and showed me how to do it properly instead of 'getting me back' as the instructor put it, but maybe let's do that part before I send a guy to surgery.

Anyway, I want to make sure that my game is complete such that I can protect myself and my partners. Accepting all pointers, but I also want a general plan to work towards since my corpulent body only really allows two days a week.

Since people tend to join randomly, and since schools are so large, its often difficult if not impossible for instructor's to keep track of what you as an individual do and do not know, especially for white belts where the turn around is so high. If you've never been taught something, tell a higher belt and ask for them to take you aside and give you the basics. A lot of time as a white belt is just finding someone who knows how to do something and asking them to show you.

There have been plenty of time when we are drilling a variation of a technique I don't know so I find a blue belt and just go "show me the basics"

As for the linking, our classes are certainly never THAT random. Usually we drill two or three movements from a single position and then do open rolls.

SHOAH NUFF
Nov 14, 2005

Blood Clots
Sweat Dries
Bones Heal
Suck it Up and Keep Wrestling


Sweeping the plant leg when you have gotten their single leg high is a really common and good way to finish the takedown. With flexible guys itís the only way sometimes

butros
Aug 2, 2007

I believe the signs of the reptile master

Shadow225 posted:

The answer is probably no, but is there a general 'road map' to BJJ, at least for a white belt? I try to make class twice a week, which means that I do miss a lot of things in they link concepts. Most of the time, I feel like they don't link concepts between classes. One instructor doesn't really link concepts in class. Anywho, I want to try and get a sense for what I should know so that I can supplement knowledge in between classes if possible.

Along those lines, if anyone has a good channel for YouTube stuff that is actually applicable, I would like to hear as well.

There are so many variables to positions and techniques that as a beginner you will feel overwhelmed, particularly if things aren't being taught in a systematic way where you at least know "this week we're working on passing half guard and next week we're working on attacking from top side control."

1. Learn basic positions and positional heirarchy (pages 3-7 here)

http://www.beginningbjj.com/BJJ%20Roadmap%201.3.pdf

When you roll or drill, be mindful of what position you are in, and be mindful of the step up in the heirarchy you'd want to get back to.

2. Once you're familiar with positions, look at defense and escape techniques from bad positions.

You will probably find yourself in bad positions - bottom of side control, bottom of mount, bottom knee on belly, or with your back taken - a lot.

You can't get dominant position or submit in a roll if you can't defend or escape, and even guys with a few more months under their belt than you will dominate, so focusing on defense first makes sense.

3. Finally, remain consistent. Even at 2x per week eventually with time things will start to click, things will make sense because you're seeing things for the second time, not to mention that you'll be able to retain more information because everything isn't new, just certain pieces.

If you can make the odd extra open mat or something, great. Use that as an opportunity to drill or ask specific questions from an instructor a higher belt to trouble shoot issues you have.

Mel Mudkiper
Jan 19, 2012

Is it a Pittsburgh fan?
Is it a Denver fan?
Who can say?

Like, as an example, we were drilling escapes from the closed guard arm bar and I was just like "Yeah I don't know how to do a closed guard arm bar" and asked someone to take me aside and drill me

Cyber Sandwich
Nov 16, 2011


Mel Mudkiper posted:

I have a lat strain I have spent the last week resting and it is making me feel like absolute poo poo.

Rest well. I got a rib injury in late November. The doctor said it was a bruised rib but after training for a few weeks of BJJ it definitely progressed to a fracture. I've been out of commission for about 3-4 weeks now. It sucks because I can't exercise and feel fatter but I still go to class and take notes.

ihop
Jul 23, 2001
King of the Mexicans

Anybody know any good transitions out of the saddle? I make it a point to try and end up there once per roll. My training partners would not be happy if I start attacking heel hooks, so I usually spend 30 seconds or so going after ankle locks, then try to transition to a different position. I'll usually come out on top but it's just a scramble and occasionally I end up with the guy on my back.

Odddzy
Oct 10, 2007
Once shot a man in Reno.

ihop posted:

Anybody know any good transitions out of the saddle? I make it a point to try and end up there once per roll. My training partners would not be happy if I start attacking heel hooks, so I usually spend 30 seconds or so going after ankle locks, then try to transition to a different position. I'll usually come out on top but it's just a scramble and occasionally I end up with the guy on my back.

overhook their near arm and if they turn into you just go to mount or work on guillotines with your overhooking near arm.

heeebrew
Sep 6, 2007

Weed smokin', joint tokin', fake Jew of the Weed thread


Does anyone play the Russian saddle position? what do you like to do from there? How do you like to enter?

Drewjitsu
Sep 2, 2007

Muay Thai is great but Buttscoot-Shin-to-Balls Style is undeniably better.


Shadow225 posted:


I actually feel guilty because I ended up doing some pretty bad damage to a purple belt's shoulder in the single leg situational. I have never been taught how to do a single leg in my life, so I was winging it. I couldn't bring him down, so I swept his plant leg. He ended up lawn darting shoulder first into the mat. I take some responsibility for drilling a move that I did not know how to complete, but why am I told to do a move that hasn't been taught? Purple belt was very gracious and showed me how to do it properly instead of 'getting me back' as the instructor put it, but maybe let's do that part before I send a guy to surgery.

Unless you did something reaaaaaaallllly shity on that single leg (like trapping both breakfalling arms and then spiking him on his shoulder), part of uki's job is to protect themselves when being thrown.

I would hope that by purple belt, you have a pretty good idea of how to break fall,even from weird situations. If purple belt is fighting off your single leg pretty hard, and then you surprise him, isn't he also being a bad training partner by providing resistance above what you're capable of overcoming? Or if it was his job to prevent you from finishing the single - so competitive, but starting from a single leg, we circle back to the first point.

ihop posted:

Anybody know any good transitions out of the saddle? I make it a point to try and end up there once per roll. My training partners would not be happy if I start attacking heel hooks, so I usually spend 30 seconds or so going after ankle locks, then try to transition to a different position. I'll usually come out on top but it's just a scramble and occasionally I end up with the guy on my back.

Saddle is like the rear mount of leg subs. If you have to bail out, you should be able to transition back to single leg x if you can pass opps leg from in front of you to behind you as you square back up into single leg. It's the equivalent of roidtech though, you're going from high dominance to lower dominance. There's a nifty ankle lock on the secondary leg in saddle where you start with the overwrap (traditional ankle lock grip) on the secondary leg, and transition to a rear naked grip with your other hand and submit them that way.

In reality you're just setting up the inside heel hook, but if you finish with the ankle lock, bonus!

heeebrew posted:

Does anyone play the Russian saddle position? what do you like to do from there? How do you like to enter?

I take it that this is the inside sankaku/honey hole/saddle position which sets you up for the inside heel hook? I usually get there from single leg x (ashi garame) > double outside ashi > sit on them > saddle.

I can also get it if they let me pass their leg over my body while in single leg x/ashi garame.

All of this is shamelessly stolen from Craig Jones and John Danaher's dvd's.

Drewjitsu fucked around with this message at Feb 23, 2019 around 01:37

Yuns
Aug 19, 2000

There is an idea of a Yuns, some kind of abstraction, but there is no real me, only an entity, something illusory, and though I can hide my cold gaze and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable: I simply am not there.


Shadow225 posted:

The answer is probably no, but is there a general 'road map' to BJJ, at least for a white belt? I try to make class twice a week, which means that I do miss a lot of things in they link concepts. Most of the time, I feel like they don't link concepts between classes. One instructor doesn't really link concepts in class. Anywho, I want to try and get a sense for what I should know so that I can supplement knowledge in between classes if possible.

Along those lines, if anyone has a good channel for YouTube stuff that is actually applicable, I would like to hear as well.
I can give you a full conceptual framework but it'd be a pretty big write up and honestly would be pretty tough for you to fully appreciate and understand as a white belt. I'll try to do an abbreviated one over the weekend. The Kesting guide linked earlier is a good starting point.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


Shadow225 posted:

The answer is probably no, but is there a general 'road map' to BJJ, at least for a white belt?

Learn to wrestle and wash your loving gi

Nestharken
Mar 23, 2006

The bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.


Yuns posted:

I can give you a full conceptual framework but it'd be a pretty big write up and honestly would be pretty tough for you to fully appreciate and understand as a white belt. I'll try to do an abbreviated one over the weekend. The Kesting guide linked earlier is a good starting point.

I'm not a white belt, but consider me interested in this writeup.

heeebrew
Sep 6, 2007

Weed smokin', joint tokin', fake Jew of the Weed thread


CJJ is starting. I am so excited. Should be a lot of fun matches.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

I'm the mic that doesn't work

Rigel
Nov 11, 2016



lol, the audio guys for the CJJ event are really loving incompetent.

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CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

Is this the one that was supposed to have Gordon Ryan vs Werdum?

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