Search Amazon.com:
Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«315 »
  • Post
  • Reply
fawker
Feb 1, 2008

ARMBAR!

I was reading in BJ Penn's book that he basically got his black belt within 3 or 4 years of training. Is this because hes loving ridiculous and talented or did he have some sort of weird Hawaiian grappling background that helped him a lot.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

henkman
Oct 8, 2008

I DO WANT TO HIGHLIGHT


He's the Prodigy.

fatherdog
Feb 16, 2005

by Lowtax


BJ is ridiculously talented, and also he was training full time, 6-7 days a week and often twice a day.

Dante
Feb 8, 2003



fawker posted:

I was reading in BJ Penn's book that he basically got his black belt within 3 or 4 years of training. Is this because hes loving ridiculous and talented or did he have some sort of weird Hawaiian grappling background that helped him a lot.
Just natural inclination, I know of one other guy who went from nothing to grappling at a black belt level at a little over 4 years. Like some people are naturally uncoordinated and physically awkward some people are naturally gifted with a great sense of coordination, balance, momentum etc. If they're also a strong visual and tactile learner you end up with a guy who can see someone perform a move once then replicate it instantly. That guy is going to rocket past everyone in a short amount of time if he has the work ethic.

KidDynamite
Feb 11, 2005

No, Mr. Rice, I expect you to PLEASE WORK OUT


Didn't Jonathon Torres get his Black Belt in something like 4 years? He was also in high school at the time and not rich so I like his fast black belt story better than BJ's.

Xguard86
Nov 22, 2004

"You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

Ryan Hall became a BB in like 4-5 years. It is really not that ridiculous considering the amount of mat time you get training 5-6 days a week, 2x a day.

You also have mental factors, they have studied athletes/musicians/whatever and found that time thinking about a skill is almost equal to the time actually practicing it. Bj and Hall talk about being obsessed with jiu-jitsu and thinking about it basically 16 hours a day.

It took me 3 1/2 years to get to purple, under a very stingy teacher, because I was in college and had the time/will to train and study bjj a poo poo ton, probably twice as much as I actually did or thought about anything else. I have 2 friends who basically did the same thing, which helped because I had training partners to drill and practice with basically as often as I wanted.

the yellow dart
Jul 19, 2004

King of rings, armlocks, hugs, and our hearts

To illustrate the other side of things, if you are awkward, gangly, unathletic, and a poor visual learner like I am and do to things like work and moving can't get to the gym often, you could study BJJ for 5 years and be barely a 2 stripe white belt like me.

Xguard86
Nov 22, 2004

"You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

as an aside I wasn't trying to brag about that or anything, just pointing out that situations and opportunities are a real factor.

Iceman
Aug 23, 2003



fawker posted:

I was reading in BJ Penn's book that he basically got his black belt within 3 or 4 years of training. Is this because hes loving ridiculous and talented or did he have some sort of weird Hawaiian grappling background that helped him a lot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peUo8qrD0-c

always be closing
Jul 16, 2005


Xguard86 posted:

as an aside I wasn't trying to brag about that or anything, just pointing out that situations and opportunities are a real factor.

100X this, look, bjj is expensive, but if you have a legit black belt in your area, you need to buck up, spend the money, and train like its a job while you are physically able and your job allows it.

You need to tell your girl, look, Ill be home, but two hours later and ill be tired. You have to train while you can, before you cannot.

The path to black belt lies in dedication, mat time and tournament time. its really that simple, I mean look at that girl Hillary Williams, sacrafices social life and normal womanhood, BB in <5 years. It can be done, are you man enough?

Yuns
Aug 19, 2000
Old Man of the Forums

Everyone is different and every school is different so there is no definitive timeline but I got my blue belt relatively fast for my school and it took me exactly 1 year of training 5-6 times per week and I was training pretty seriously. So 6-9 months is unusual at my school unless you have prior grappling experience. That said Gunnar Nelson got his blackbelt at our school after only 4 years of training but Gunnar also got 4th place in ADCC absolute, silver in mundials and gold in both gi and no gi Pan Ams at brown belt level so the blackbelt was well deserved.

Yuns fucked around with this message at Feb 26, 2011 around 01:16

Bohemian Nights
Jul 14, 2006

We uninspired
We unadmired
And tired and sick
of being sick and tired

The amount of time it takes to get a blue belt is pretty nice. I appreciate the fact that it takes a certain amount of time and dedication rather than just passing some arbitrary test. On the other hand it makes me sad, because unless I move somewhere else on a permanent basis, I'll never be anything but a BJJ white belt, no matter how much time I put in.

Senor P.
Mar 27, 2006
I MUST TELL YOU HOW PEOPLE CARE ABOUT STUFF I DONT AND BE A COMPLETE CUNT ABOUT IT


Bohemian Nights posted:

The amount of time it takes to get a blue belt is pretty nice. I appreciate the fact that it takes a certain amount of time and dedication rather than just passing some arbitrary test. On the other hand it makes me sad, because unless I move somewhere else on a permanent basis, I'll never be anything but a BJJ white belt, no matter how much time I put in.

The belt really does not have any value. All it typically means is a teacher has recognized the time you put in and your skill level. If you have the skills to back it up, wear your own blue belt and compete in blue belt divisions. (Or compete in blue belt divisions as a white belt.)

I remember reading an account from a purple belt in BJJ how he was training with this wrestler in Germany and he just awarded himself his own black belt just so he could compete with senior level people in BJJ tournaments. (Also to kind of troll the people he had sparred with tapped out. After all if they can't beat him, why all the mystique to being a black belt in BJJ?) I have not confirmed such a story, so take it with a grain of salt.

No one can argue with results.

Senor P. fucked around with this message at Feb 26, 2011 around 01:32

Bohemian Nights
Jul 14, 2006

We uninspired
We unadmired
And tired and sick
of being sick and tired

Point taken, but you wouldn't be a LEGIT blue belt. This might not have any practical value in itself, but let me use my own instructor as an example. He's a traditional jujitsu brown belt who's been training on and off for 17 (maybe 18) years now, and his grappling is pretty drat decent.
He wanted to compete in the Norwegian open championships (which counts as an IBJJF competition, I believe), and did well in the advanced nogi, but they wouldn't let him compete above white belt level with a gi, because he had never been graded by anyone in BJJ.
It's not a problem for him anymore, since he trained for a month at Roger Gracie's academy in London and was awarded a blue belt by Roger's dad.
Norway is a small place, and I'm not sure if you can get away with awarding yourself a blue belt.

Grab Your Foot!
Apr 23, 2007

The struggle itself towards the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.


Yeah that is a little unfortunate, and while the demarcation between gi and no gi competition and what's expected to be able to compete at a certain level in each can be frustrating in a situation like that I've definitely had things go the other way.

On the one hand particularly small purple belts at our school might as well not show up for smaller tournaments because odds are there's going to be one or perhaps two competitors available to them. One purple belt had the pleasure of paying eighty dollars to win his advanced no gi division after beating the same guy twice (there was a third person in the division but he lost to the other guy). At a lot of tournaments winning your division at blue belt is at least as impressive as doing so at brown belt just because of the number of matches you have to get through at blue.

On the other hand sometimes you get somebody who wanders into the advanced no gi division because they want to put in on their business card or whatever and then you feel like you're wasting your time and money anyway.

Sooooo, yeah, tournaments.

Grifter
Jul 24, 2003

I do this technique called a suplex. You probably haven't heard of it, it's pretty obscure.

niethan posted:

If someone trys to RNC you just do this

This is actually possible to do (on someone on your back with hooks in). It almost happened to me when I was just starting out and it is very embarrassing.

shizen posted:

how long does it take where I can actually be somewhat competitive with my partners? These were no gi classes so I'm not sure what level they were but I am pretty sure I was the only true beginner there this week.
Someone on here described this pretty well a while ago. They said that BJJ can be frustrating, especially at the beginning, because you keep going every day and every day you get whooped. That's because you're rolling with guys who come in just like you do and they are learning just as much as you are, so you feel like you don't advance, when in fact you are all advancing together. Some day a new guy is going to walk in that door and you're going to whoop on him and feel like a god - on that day you will know that you have improved.

Also, if you feel you are not learning and are just getting your butt kicked, absolutely talk to your partners. Try practicing a particular position, like starting with them in your guard, or you in their guard. Just go until someone is subbed, or the guard was passed, or someone was swept. At that point talk about what happened, try running it again, learn a counter or don't repeat a mistake. You will feel much more constructive and get more out of it, while still experiencing rolling. Plus, since you're still early on, this will give you a chance to get your breath back. I imagine there are people out there who are not into this idea because they are just there to roll, but you can always switch partners and those guys are pretty few and far between.

Who Gotch Ya
Jun 27, 2003

streetdoctors.com
Yes, we are hybrid rappers.


Grab Your Foot! posted:

At a lot of tournaments winning your division at blue belt is at least as impressive as doing so at brown belt just because of the number of matches you have to get through at blue.

I'm a lightweight blue belt under 30. My division always has like 50 guys in it. It's ridiculous.

gently caress tournaments I just want to have entertaining singles matches.

MycroftXXX
May 10, 2006

A Liquor Never Brewed

Who Gotch Ya posted:

I'm a lightweight blue belt under 30. My division always has like 50 guys in it. It's ridiculous.

gently caress tournaments I just want to have entertaining singles matches.

I'm the same. I went to the No Gi Pan Ams this year and my division had like 46 people in it. ridiculous.

You don't always have to do the big tournaments though, doing a small tournament every once in a while can be a good thing. My school does in house tournaments every three months with other local schools which is good for experience. Also, here in NJ there are smaller tournaments like the good fight or mid range like US Grappling which have competitions pretty regularly. I think its a good idea to start off competing small before jumping into one of the bigger tournaments. Rolling with someone in your class and competing in a tournament are two completely different animals, and I think experience really helps.

Xguard86
Nov 22, 2004

"You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

Grifter posted:

This is actually possible to do (on someone on your back with hooks in). It almost happened to me when I was just starting out and it is very embarrassing.

poo poo dude this did happen to me. You know how embarrassing it is to tap out with one of your hooks, from a guy's back? It comes from people showing white belts a simplified RNC, moving like its the macarena, exaggerating the arm movements.

I make sure to show it to every white belt, and teach them how to set up the RNC the correct way: tight. So my shame will never be repeated.

Bohemian Nights
Jul 14, 2006

We uninspired
We unadmired
And tired and sick
of being sick and tired

My rear naked choke is so terrible and my spindly nerd arms are so weak, that this is a real threat to me every time I fight a stronger opponent who knows about this movie. My RNC is so terrible that I go for an armbar from the back before I go for the choke

westcoaster
Oct 26, 2010


Bohemian Nights posted:

My rear naked choke is so terrible and my spindly nerd arms are so weak, that this is a real threat to me every time I fight a stronger opponent who knows about this movie. My RNC is so terrible that I go for an armbar from the back before I go for the choke

I almost got caught with that before but only got out by spazzzing out. But seriously just rotate your wrist its going to be hard for them to control your arm like that.

Also, I have long spindly arms, and the one nice thing is you can do a one armed RNC. Just grab the guys shoulder and inch your arm up to your own neck until you are effectively collar tieing yourself. I tapped some guy with that at my last tourney.

Grab Your Foot!
Apr 23, 2007

The struggle itself towards the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.


Can't say I've ever been Seagal'ed like that from back control but I've certainly had the pleasure of getting the poo poo ankle locked out of me when I haven't been paying attention and my feet ended up crossed. On the other hand that's always a habit that you sort of have to beat out of somebody by ankle locking them whenever they do cross their feet, sort of a Pavlovian thing. Getting submitted on someone's back is humiliating enough that you learn pretty quick.

As for rear naked chokes, if you're letting your arm hang out enough to get caught like that I can't believe anybody is ever going to let you sink in the choke anyway. Plus because everybody will lock everything down as soon as they have time to think with you on their back you really want to get good at hitting whatever you like (RNC and bow and arrow for me, occasionally an Ezekiel) while transitioning into the position. Or flatten your opponent out belly down and lift their hips, then they're pretty much doomed.

Iceman
Aug 23, 2003



Does anyone ever do the inverted/reverse/whatever triangle that Braulio did at the ADCCs a couple years ago? I want to do this but I'm having trouble. I can usually get the triangle but it feels very difficult to finish.

Bohemian Nights
Jul 14, 2006

We uninspired
We unadmired
And tired and sick
of being sick and tired

If I never make a post on this forum again it's probably because CortXbomb forever gogoplated me to death, and my dying wish is that someone deletes my search history

thanks

Grab Your Foot!
Apr 23, 2007

The struggle itself towards the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.


My advice to you is in my username; also wear a gimp mask and fake tap constantly so CXB can pretend to be a palette-swaped Din Thomas.

And I I definitely don't hunt for that triangle but the few times I've managed to finish it I completed a kind of a backwards flower sweep to mount with it and a lot of the submission was probably body weight; the one thing I know to do if you can manage that is control a leg.

huh
Jan 23, 2004


Dinosaur Gum

Iceman posted:

Does anyone ever do the inverted/reverse/whatever triangle that Braulio did at the ADCCs a couple years ago? I want to do this but I'm having trouble. I can usually get the triangle but it feels very difficult to finish.



I just had a revelation about this thanks to your picture!

I also struggle to finish it but noticed that his left hand holding his right shin pushes Galvao's arm across into the perfect position for the choke.

Excellent.

JayBulworth
Apr 1, 2010


I was at the Abu Dhabi trials today in Montreal, some highlights:

- There was this one blue belt who's go to move was a flying armbar. He caught two guys with it and in his third match, he attempted three failed flying armbars. Each time he failed, he ended up in guard, got back to his feet and then went for another flying armbar. On this third failed attempt, he had his guard passed and his opponent moved into mount and ended up winning on points. On a related note, one of the girls also hit a nice flying armbar.
- Toronto BJJ had by far the best showing of the tournament. They seem to have a unique game that emphasizes leglocks. A bunch of straight ankle lock finishes at the lower levels and one of their brown belts hit a rolling calf crush against a Gracie Barra black belt from the turtle position.
- There was this one purple belt from BTT Canada that had an absolutely insane guard game. He had long spidery legs and would just decimate guys in his guard. I wonder how you break guards on guys with those types of attributes.
- Weirdest guard game I've seen, Alessandro Roman (came in 4th at no-gi worlds purple belt division, 2nd at the Euros last month as a blue belt). Another guy with really long legs. He would pull half guard and then switch to De La Riva. Instead of attempting a sweep from the DLR however, he would turn his rear end towards his opponent and end up upside down with one leg in between his opponent's legs and the other on the shoulder or the hips somewhere. Eventually, he would take the guy's back and finish with a bow and arrow choke. If the back take failed, he would end up in a 50/50 guard or an upside down 50/50. Really weird guard game; he was catching a bunch of guys with it. Unfortunately, he was disqualified for reaping the knee in his semi-final match.

fawker
Feb 1, 2008

ARMBAR!

After watching BJ Penn fight earlier tonight, I noticed how ridiculously flexible his hips were.

Is this something that NORMAL people could eventually acheive or are you pretty much limited by what you're born with.

Pierat
Mar 29, 2008
ASK ME ABOUT HOW MUCH I LOVE THE BNP


Iceman posted:

Does anyone ever do the inverted/reverse/whatever triangle that Braulio did at the ADCCs a couple years ago? I want to do this but I'm having trouble. I can usually get the triangle but it feels very difficult to finish.



Sometimes I can get a kimura from there.

awkward_turtle
Oct 26, 2007
swimmer in a goon sea

fawker posted:

After watching BJ Penn fight earlier tonight, I noticed how ridiculously flexible his hips were.

Is this something that NORMAL people could eventually acheive or are you pretty much limited by what you're born with.

Kinda both, BJ is naturally flexible but he's said before that he was to work at it and that he stretches every day. There are natural limits to what you can do safety based on the depth and angle of the hip joints though.

quote:

- Weirdest guard game I've seen, Alessandro Roman (came in 4th at no-gi worlds purple belt division, 2nd at the Euros last month as a blue belt). Another guy with really long legs. He would pull half guard and then switch to De La Riva. Instead of attempting a sweep from the DLR however, he would turn his rear end towards his opponent and end up upside down with one leg in between his opponent's legs and the other on the shoulder or the hips somewhere. Eventually, he would take the guy's back and finish with a bow and arrow choke. If the back take failed, he would end up in a 50/50 guard or an upside down 50/50. Really weird guard game; he was catching a bunch of guys with it. Unfortunately, he was disqualified for reaping the knee in his semi-final match.

Do you have any video of this? It sounds kinda like Spiral Guard or Cyborg's Tornado Guard but I'm having trouble visualizing it.

Rids!
Aug 20, 2006

picture this if you will...

How does one compete as a purple belt one day then compete as a blue at the next competition? How is this not sandbagging?

the yellow dart
Jul 19, 2004

King of rings, armlocks, hugs, and our hearts

Rids! posted:

How does one compete as a purple belt one day then compete as a blue at the next competition? How is this not sandbagging?

Sandbagging isn't illegal. You can always compete up unless there are specific restrictions on it.

02-6611-0142-1
Sep 30, 2004



huh posted:

I just had a revelation about this thanks to your picture!

I also struggle to finish it but noticed that his left hand holding his right shin pushes Galvao's arm across into the perfect position for the choke.

Excellent.

I try to do this poo poo nonstop, no luck yet (~*white beltz*~)

Diquebutt
Feb 17, 2011

by Fistgrrl


fawker posted:

After watching BJ Penn fight earlier tonight, I noticed how ridiculously flexible his hips were.

Is this something that NORMAL people could eventually acheive or are you pretty much limited by what you're born with.

In what little prep I've done BEFORE I'm even doing BJJ, it's all in the work. E.Bravo, regardless of opinions on him, will not give out a BB to someone who isn't insanely flexible because it's so key to your guard and his techniques. I can get my legs pefectly flat after a few months stretching, just takes some time.

always be closing
Jul 16, 2005


Someone from 50/50 gym tagged this pic as jake makenzie on facebook, i saved it cause i knew it was important, now might be the time to post it in this thread, white belts, take heed, this is coming from ryan hall and his crew, the real deal.


Grab Your Foot!
Apr 23, 2007

The struggle itself towards the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.


That doesn't look anything like Jake Mackenzie.

And while jiu jitsu will definitely improve your flexibility over time the white board is right in that flexibility, while a valuable tool in jiu jitsu, shouldn't be the basis of your game and being too flexible can actually slow down your development. Hall feels that way about himself, that he was so flexible that he didn't develop his pass defense and his top game enough early on and when he began to compete against the very best he couldn't get away with it any more.

Being flexible provides you with options and allows you to get away with some things but you're better off if you learn how to not have to get away with them. On the other hand I do wish I could omoplata people who have me in side control.

westcoaster
Oct 26, 2010


Grab Your Foot! posted:

Being flexible provides you with options and allows you to get away with some things but you're better off if you learn how to not have to get away with them. On the other hand I do wish I could omoplata people who have me in side control.

I think thats the best approach to grappling. No matter what your strengths are concentrate on learning every position. I have really long legs and because of that people wouldn't get past my guard easily, and I could throw triangles really easy. So, for a long time I didn't learn how to maintain guard or set techniques up properly. Although, I'm still new going back and learning the basics that I skipped learning has really improved my game. I guess the same thing could happen to strong guys, or anyone else with a natural advantage.


Also, I'm going to try that omo plata! How does this guy do it? Is it on the arm closest to your head, or the low one? I guess you have to shrimp and get a knee in? I'm going to find the newest guy at practice and do this.

02-6611-0142-1
Sep 30, 2004



Can anyone point me toward the match where, I think it was Marcelo Garcia, is riding a big guy around by standing on the back of his knees?

colonel_korn
May 16, 2003



02-6611-0142-1 posted:

Can anyone point me toward the match where, I think it was Marcelo Garcia, is riding a big guy around by standing on the back of his knees?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaUjA0p0xcE

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

02-6611-0142-1
Sep 30, 2004



That's it, thanks.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply
«315 »