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Head Bee Guy posted:Hey guys, I’ve done a few BJJ classes so far and now it’s all I want to do. it's normal if you're getting your windpipe choked, but people are supposed to avoid that
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Apr 27, 2022 16:29
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Also tap early it’s not a competition fight.
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Apr 27, 2022 16:38
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Yeah, it takes practice obviously but you can tap later in controlled drills and earlier when rolling. Like with arm bars I'll let them bring the arm all the way out to extension when drilling but in a roll I sometimes verbally tap while my hands are still clinched together "fighting it" because I can feel my grip slipping and I'm prepared to just call it.
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Apr 27, 2022 16:48
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Head Bee Guy posted:Hey guys, I’ve done a few BJJ classes so far and now it’s all I want to do. Tap more, please. Don't be the guy or gal who is "tough" and then misses classes because they have to recover from injury more often. If you are getting strangled properly, there should be no sore throat. If you are getting choked (ie on the windpipe with crushing pressure, your opponent's are doing it incorrectly, but you should tap nevertheless. It's not worth it to be correct and try to fight the choke. As you get better, you will avoid those situations, instead of trying to gut them out. Don't worry about tapping now. Even to lovely chokes.
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Apr 28, 2022 07:32
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My opinion is slightly different. A badly applied choke that makes you tap due to pain is still a valid application of a choke (same with cranks) even if not what is intended. When you get to know your training partners better and talk about the rolls afterwards to give each other feedback then you should be sharing that information with them and then maybe drilling the move a few times that didn’t get out on well. Generally people want to apply good technique and in a training situation that should be the goal, but you don’t get to that place without doing non judgemental feedback to each other. It’s how we make each other better and get better at bjj.
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Apr 28, 2022 08:37
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I tap as soon as a sub is even close to being locked in now. I don't give them time to apply any pressure. I figure I can learn to escape submissions later and my time is better spent learning how to stop the steps leading up to the submission getting locked in. I tap extremely early to collar chokes. All of the anecdotal bjj stroke stories I've read involve some sort of collar choke.
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Apr 28, 2022 13:04
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Here's an question for the thread regarding "wrong chokes": Say a choke is applied, the person taps, then says "you didn't have the choke, I only tapped because of all the pressure on my jaw". Is this a case of bad technique being muscled to completion by someone who shouldn't be so concerned with getting a "win", or is it sour grapes from someone that doesn't want to admit that were legitimately submitted by an attack they couldn't properly defend. I know where I stand but I'll hold my tongue; I'd like to hear what other people think.
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Apr 28, 2022 13:33
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It's possible the technique they were going for was done incorrectly. But it is very much sour grapes as well.
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Apr 28, 2022 13:54
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Jack B Nimble posted:Here's an question for the thread regarding "wrong chokes": I'd say its sour grapes if the person who taps volunteers this info. If the person applying the choke asks how it felt (a good thing to do) then an honest answer isn't sour grapes. Choking someone's jaw isn't wrong or incorrect. I'll do it sometimes, but mostly I'll wait for the clean choke.
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Apr 28, 2022 13:56
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It's very much about the people involved. If I'm doing randori with my usual partners, I know that we're trying to help each other with techniques and aren't super competitive, so we frequently tell each other things like this and tap early generally to avoid injury.
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Apr 28, 2022 14:09
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Sherbert Hoover posted:It's very much about the people involved. If I'm doing randori with my usual partners, I know that we're trying to help each other with techniques and aren't super competitive, so we frequently tell each other things like this and tap early generally to avoid injury. This. I’ll tap to a face choke really fast and let my partner know. But it won’t be from a “that’s not a real submission” perspective but from a “you should tighten up that technique”. The people I roll with don’t care about tapping a lot and getting / giving feedback. It’s how you get better. I’ve noticed that a lot of masculine ego can creep into rolls - you have to let a lot of that go if you want to get better.
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Apr 28, 2022 15:04
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Sherbert Hoover posted:It's very much about the people involved. If I'm doing randori with my usual partners, I know that we're trying to help each other with techniques and aren't super competitive, so we frequently tell each other things like this and tap early generally to avoid injury. I'm in this group, especially with head-and-arm chokes. Whenever I d'arce or get d'arced, I make sure that this info gets shared because there are people out there who just do painful d'arces to people thinking that they're doing strangles and they never know because nobody tells them. When I chinlock someone I apologize before they have a chance to complain, because I 100% did it deliberately.
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Apr 28, 2022 15:08
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"everything below the eyes is neck" as they say  I imagine this is in response to an RNC, or possibly a Von Flue or a Japanese Necktie? Regardless, "resist choke w/ jaw" is not a valid submission defense, and I would call this a case of sour grapes. Especially with the phrasing you mentioned: "you didn't have the choke, I only tapped because..." CommonShore posted:I'm in this group, especially with head-and-arm chokes. Whenever I d'arce or get d'arced, I make sure that this info gets shared because there are people out there who just do painful d'arces to people thinking that they're doing strangles and they never know because nobody tells them.  to all of this
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Apr 28, 2022 15:25
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Jack B Nimble posted:Here's an question for the thread regarding "wrong chokes": This counts as a double tap, they got beat all the way into the territory where their brain needs to rationalize it. On one of the Danaher dvds, he talks about it a bit, basically everybody's neck physiology is a touch different, your partners will have bigger or smaller necks that all fit a little differently. Spending training time on getting that unicorn perfect choke that has no pain is finicky, individual and low value, better to spend training time on getting to the choke position then crush the poo poo out of their neck, all the choky poo poo is in there somewhere and will be squeezed along with everything else.
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Apr 28, 2022 15:45
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Grace Baiting posted:? Regardless, "resist choke w/ jaw" is not a valid submission defense, and I would call this a case of sour grapes. Especially with the phrasing you mentioned: "you didn't have the choke, I only tapped because..." My own position is similar, there's a couple people at my gym, one of them an obnoxious and arrogant teenager and one of them a much more chill guy who's just very competitive, who do not like to "lose" and sometimes respond to chokes with this line. They've done it to me with RNCs and, IIRC, an Ezekiel. A thing I've heard my coaches say on the subject, sometimes while watching the rolls as they happen: "If you don't like how it feels, you're free to lift your chin" Regarding the broader caveat that it depends on the people, I should point out these are both energetic rollers who don't mind going a bit a harder. I wouldn't clamp down a choke like this on someone much smaller than me, or anyone who I knew wanted a lighter roll. I also do try to get the neck, but if they tuck their chin FWIW it only seems to be people that don't like to tap who then complain about it, I think other people, myself included, just tap and move on. Edit: Also, yeah, I feel like if you let your opponent get into a dominant position where they can put a choke on and squeeze, like, you're losing bro. Tucking the chin is like the Hitler bunker of jiu Jitsu defense
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Apr 28, 2022 15:51
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I should also add that when I give people that kind of feedback I add something like "don't get me wrong, you got me, but there's room to improve you technique so that you can be confident that it will work in competition when you're not squeezing the neck of a 40 year old dude who is worried about being sore tomorrow." But I'm also a coach too.
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Apr 28, 2022 15:52
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I counted 20 bruises/mat burns from my roll last night, at least that I can see. Does this happen less frequently as I roll more? Anything to help prevent it? I already wear a full under armor compression get up. I also have pretty stretchy skin
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Apr 28, 2022 16:44
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Jack B Nimble posted:"If you don't like how it feels, you're free to lift your chin" This is an appropriate response to someone actually complaining.
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Apr 28, 2022 16:58
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgBb-VDtSbw&t=5774s If you don't like something, either don't let them do it to you, or tap. The obvious flipside is don't do stuff to people you wouldn't want them to do to you.
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Apr 28, 2022 17:14
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I like my old coach's method: Wrap it up, squeeze a little and hold to let them think about it and tap. No tap... welp just keep tightening. Same as joint locks.
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Apr 28, 2022 18:01
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Xguard86 posted:Wrap it up, squeeze a little and hold to let them think about it and tap. I've really started to try to do this more. Not for their benefit, for mine. If I have to finish something quickly, it probably sucked to start out with. If I can control them there for 15-30s before putting the finishing pressure on, the whole thing was probably decent.
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Apr 28, 2022 18:42
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In the past few months John Danaher, Gordon Ryan, Nick Rodriguez and Shawn Williams have all put out body lock guard pass tapes, to go along with Lachlans from a few years past. Guess it’s a good idea to pick one up and get learning
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Apr 28, 2022 18:44
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It's a great pass that can get 145 lb guys compliments on how "heavy" they are. Plus you can make it slow and grindy if you feel like wearing people down before passing.
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Apr 28, 2022 19:43
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Pron on VHS posted:In the past few months John Danaher, Gordon Ryan, Nick Rodriguez and Shawn Williams have all put out body lock guard pass tapes, to go along with Lachlans from a few years past. Guess it’s a good idea to pick one up and get learning I just started doing these last year without being instructed, and yeah they're great. Actually, what are good defenses for passes like this?
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Apr 28, 2022 20:12
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The 3 bad things that happen to me most often when trying to body lock pass (usually against a butterfly guard) are 1. Get sumi gaeshi’d because my hands are locked and I leaned too far to one side 2. Get guillotined because they were able to get their armpit above my head which is usually somewhere in their ribs 3. Get put into closed guard after I lock up and start the leg pommeling because I was not tight enough with my knees to keep them from doing so
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Apr 28, 2022 20:18
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My take is that we should generally aim for doing the cleanest blood chokes possible, but well, life is messy and sometimes you gotta make do with what you're given. I'll give my rolling partners feedback (and ask for it if the situation is reversed) after they catch me with a choke on the relative percentage of how much of it was a crank/carotid occlusion/trachea pressure, but with the mutual understanding that it's for the sake of fine-tuning, not "well, you didn't REALLY catch me". A tap's a tap. The notable exception for me is guillotines. My finish rate with those went through the roof once I took my coach's advice and just aimed my first thumb knuckle at the trachea instead of worrying about making it a blood choke. Jack B Nimble posted:Tucking the chin is like the Hitler bunker of jiu Jitsu defense This is the funniest analogy I've heard in a while, well done. Pron on VHS posted:The 3 bad things that happen to me most often when trying to body lock pass (usually against a butterfly guard) are My gym has a lot of bodylock passers, and this is mostly what I do in response. Also a lot of the Eduardo Telles/Ryan Hall kind of collar tie forearm frame to set up a hip heist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo1NUdmaT54&t=761s
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Apr 28, 2022 21:02
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Count Roland posted:Actually, what are good defenses for passes like this? The thing with bodylock passes is that you have a narrow set of responses, and they can all be countered. That’s why it’s a good ‘narrow’ topic to release a DVD set on. It’s a single pass, but you need to know how to do heaps of troubleshooting. But once you know the troubleshooting it’s just about unstoppable, there’s not really a satisfying counter.
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Apr 28, 2022 23:31
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Head Bee Guy posted:I counted 20 bruises/mat burns from my roll last night, at least that I can see. Does this happen less frequently as I roll more? Anything to help prevent it? I already wear a full under armor compression get up. I also have pretty stretchy skin I've only been at this for about a year and a half but I am forever covered in mat burn and bruises. Spats and long sleeve rash guards help the former.
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Apr 29, 2022 00:34
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Head Bee Guy posted:I counted 20 bruises/mat burns from my roll last night, at least that I can see. Does this happen less frequently as I roll more? Anything to help prevent it? I already wear a full under armor compression get up. I also have pretty stretchy skin I was rife with bruises when I started, and also very prone to black eyes for some reason. Not sure what happened but its extremely rare I bruise now, even though I train much more than I used to.
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Apr 29, 2022 01:09
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I know it's not a big deal to a lot of you but it's been a long time since I felt a real sense of accomplishment so sticking with this means a lot to me. p happy tonight
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Apr 29, 2022 02:27
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Congrats! Every step is a big deal!
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Apr 29, 2022 02:41
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Apr 29, 2022 03:13
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Yellow is the best belt color; I'm jealous.
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Apr 29, 2022 03:54
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Noice, congrats!
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Apr 29, 2022 04:25
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pee is stored in the belt
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Apr 29, 2022 05:15
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Sherbert Hoover posted:I know it's not a big deal to a lot of you but it's been a long time since I felt a real sense of accomplishment so sticking with this means a lot to me. p happy tonight Congratulations: yellow belt is a big deal. You wouldn't believe how few people get there, proportionally, especially among adults.
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Apr 29, 2022 06:27
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiF0S-B_81o
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Apr 29, 2022 16:09
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goddamnit i love this sport
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Apr 29, 2022 16:45
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Today was the first time in near four years I got to roll with a decently experienced black belt. For various reasons I very very rarely get opportunities to roll with people who can just straight up out play me in spots, and it was the most fun I've had in an extremely long time. I know we have some dudes who've been grinding in grapple sports for longer than me in this thread, I'm on eightish years not counting the break for rona, do you guys have to start traveling and actively seeking out these kinds of training partners who can help you improve by beating the breaks off you or....?
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Apr 29, 2022 21:47
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Jack B Nimble posted:Here's an question for the thread regarding "wrong chokes": A tap is a tap. Correct the technique if its applied incorrectly or if you want to go over exact specifics with your training partner to get the move right. "That was more of a crank than a choke..." type of poo poo. Sherbert Hoover posted:I know it's not a big deal to a lot of you but it's been a long time since I felt a real sense of accomplishment so sticking with this means a lot to me. p happy tonight congrats!! Defenestrategy posted:Today was the first time in near four years I got to roll with a decently experienced black belt. For various reasons I very very rarely get opportunities to roll with people who can just straight up out play me in spots, and it was the most fun I've had in an extremely long time. Six years here. I have to go to open mats. Since I dont like the Gi as much, I often dont know who I am rolling with thats an upper belt when I drop in to places like 10P (nogi only). But that sheds light on my game as well. Tacos Al Pastor fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Apr 29, 2022 |
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Apr 29, 2022 22:15
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