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In both my old academy and my current academy, leglocks don't seem to be taught to the beginner class. Right now I'm only going to the beginner class, to get my fundamentals a bit tighter while I continue to lose weight and increase my wind. So no real leglock exposure for me. I'm not sure what the line is for going to the intermediate class, but I see two stripe white belts there (it's right after the beginner class) so presumably they are learning leg locks. When my fitness is better I'll probably end up staying for both classes and just do like 3 hours of Jiu Jitsu on my training days.
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Aug 18, 2019 19:53
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CommonShore posted:Another reason I've heard is that fresh white belts will do generally ok things when resisting an arm bar or a choke, but that the instinctive fresh white belt moves for defending a leg lock can much of the time make injury worse. This really just seems to be a thing for heel hooks because the danger zone for them isn't immediately obvious. I've put a lot of toe holds on people who tried to defend by turning the wrong way... and then tapped safely, because it started to hurt. Ankle locks and kneebars are also pretty obvious "you're about to get wrecked" taps. I guess calf slicers are also potentially dangerous if someone thinks they're just a pain move and can be gritted out, but that can be remedied with a 30-second lecture.
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Aug 18, 2019 21:46
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We've got a new guy in my gym. Former HS or Uni football player from the US. Extremely strong and athletic with absolutely zero chill. He's going to hurt someone soon, I think. Guess I just gotta make sure to protect myself when we roll.
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Aug 18, 2019 22:02
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Rolled with some amateur MMA fighter today who I've never rolled with, was playing around with him and could tell he was getting frustrated. I let him get an electric chair sweep on me and he proceeded to try and do the crotch ripper submission I just stared at him and chuckled the whole time, he gave up and came up into my half guard and said "That's 10th Planet poo poo, homie." No clue what that meant but I just decided to sweep him and give him the shoulder of justice until there was 10 seconds left in the round and then mount and arm bar him.
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Aug 18, 2019 22:06
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Hellblazer187 posted:We've got a new guy in my gym. Former HS or Uni football player from the US. Extremely strong and athletic with absolutely zero chill. He's going to hurt someone soon, I think. Guess I just gotta make sure to protect myself when we roll. Fortunately guys like that will quickly challenge a higher belt when they get cocky and learn from it
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Aug 18, 2019 22:14
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Fortunately guys like that will quickly challenge a higher belt when they get cocky and learn from it It's good in a way, because as a fat out of shape accountant approaching 40, there should be no way for me to handle someone of his athleticism and youth. At this point I'm tapping him out multiple times when we roll. Actually makes me feel like my blue belt isn't QUITE the joke I always felt it was. It's also good practice for real self defense. Once get gets just a little bit of technical ability I think he'll plow through me, but hopefully he learns some chill before then too. I would usually actually be the highest belt in the beginner class, except of course for the instructor. I do wanna see the black belt tie him in knots a bit, I must admit.
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Aug 18, 2019 22:24
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So I was googling different leg locks and this showed up
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Aug 19, 2019 00:45
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I'm not sure that fine lady plays hard to get.
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Aug 19, 2019 00:52
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Mel Mudkiper posted:So I was googling different leg locks and this showed up So this is a scramble based leg lock system ....right?
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Aug 19, 2019 00:55
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Tacos Al Pastor posted:Are you on your belly when this happens or your side? I also am having a hard time visualizing this. JaySB posted:Deep half Usually he gets it from dogfight. It's almost knee on belly, but from the back. He grips inside of my collar at the neckline and plants his knee into my back when I'm on my knees and not able to get up fast enough, then he just hangs there with nearly all his weight driving right into my bottom back rib. He uses the collar grip to pull/push his knee into me harder as I try to move around.
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Aug 19, 2019 03:24
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Sounds like you're really late to react. Don't hang out in dogfight or turtle.
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Aug 19, 2019 03:49
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Nice, the 2 guys from 10th Planet in Vegas won their matches. I've trained with both of em a bit, they're solid.
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Aug 19, 2019 05:11
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Has anyone trained at Tristar before? Going to do a drop in class while I'm in Montreal.
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Aug 19, 2019 15:39
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spb posted:Has anyone trained at Tristar before? Going to do a drop in class while I'm in Montreal. If I may suggest a stop off at Mizu. It's a little place with no name behind it, just a hobbyist who wanted to train more. The chill atmosphere has attracted real talent though: Oliver Taza regularly would teach classes there. First class is free.
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Aug 19, 2019 16:00
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spb posted:Has anyone trained at Tristar before? Going to do a drop in class while I'm in Montreal. friend & training partner of mine trains there but is currently recovering from knee surgery. I can pass on whatever questions you have
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Aug 19, 2019 16:00
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Count Roland posted:If I may suggest a stop off at Mizu. It's a little place with no name behind it, just a hobbyist who wanted to train more. The chill atmosphere has attracted real talent though: Oliver Taza regularly would teach classes there. First class is free. Yeah, I'll check it out. Thanks. Wangsbig posted:friend & training partner of mine trains there but is currently recovering from knee surgery. I can pass on whatever questions you have Are all the classes in French? lol I've never trained outside of the country and have no idea what its like tbh. edit: nevermind, i reach out to them and their classes are taught in English. Michael Transactions fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Aug 19, 2019 |
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Aug 19, 2019 16:18
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L0cke17 posted:Usually he gets it from dogfight. It's almost knee on belly, but from the back. He grips inside of my collar at the neckline and plants his knee into my back when I'm on my knees and not able to get up fast enough, then he just hangs there with nearly all his weight driving right into my bottom back rib. He uses the collar grip to pull/push his knee into me harder as I try to move around. There is a pretty cool simple sweep from dogfight that I learned from my instructor a while back. Let me see if I can find it.
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Aug 19, 2019 17:25
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Tacos Al Pastor posted:There is a pretty cool simple sweep from dogfight that I learned from my instructor a while back. Let me see if I can find it. Dogfight Sweep - Single Leg Dogfight Sweep - Roll under - Deep Half combos
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Aug 19, 2019 17:53
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Count Roland posted:If I may suggest a stop off at Mizu. It's a little place with no name behind it, just a hobbyist who wanted to train more. The chill atmosphere has attracted real talent though: Oliver Taza regularly would teach classes there. First class is free. What the hell? Another goon that does bjj in montreal? You should message me some time if you want. I would also 100% endorse mizu. Val, the teacher is awesome and puts all his money and time into bringing high level guys (oliver taza, cameron florczac, alex ecklin) to teach classes and seminars. Its frankly the best place in Montreal currently. Tons of guys from tristar, 10th planet and BTT go there for its open mat. You can definitely go to tristar too, no problem there. But its better to go if you know someone that can vouch for you or help you meet other guys there. The way its set up is that there are the advanced guys in the mma cage that grapple and the regular "civilians" on the mats around the cage. You'll be put on the mats and wont get the greatest attention put on you especially on your first day. (Nothing wrong with that either from their standpoint) I'd go to Mizu.
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Aug 19, 2019 20:30
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I don't live in Montreal, but I've been there and really liked Val and Mizu. Honestly, the guy gets some credit for getting me back into BJJ. I hadn't really trained in like 5 years when I went there, and I was worried I wouldn't have the motivation to make it stick. For one thing, Val is extremely friendly and warm and welcoming, and so darn keen about BJJ. For another, the guy is an inspiration, and virtually never use that word. He works, he has a family and yet he trains 2-3 times a day, no time off for injuries or any other reason, and still finds time to open his own club. Its nuts. But if he could do it, surely me with nothing but free time could get to a class or two. When I started there it was very small, sometimes a class would literally just be me and him rolling; he was decidedly not covering rent with dues. He attracted people with a no-fee open mat, by getting guys like Taza in to teach, and from photos I see these days it looks like the classes are nice and full. And for me it was just a nice chill place to train and learn cool stuff. As I said I don't live there but I've got nothing but respect for Val, and I hope to visit Mizu soon. /gym appreciation rant
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Aug 20, 2019 00:12
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Count Roland posted:I don't live in Montreal, but I've been there and really liked Val and Mizu. Yeah, Val rocks. I'd describe him as a very disciplined individual that parlayed a well paying job into developing an awesome bjj gym. I hope the place works out, I can't imagine it not becoming the spot for pure bjj in Montreal. The open mats are great if a bit on the competitor/serious side. But he has a great range of classes for all levels at all other times of the week.
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Aug 20, 2019 00:17
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I'm the heaviest I've ever been in my life.  Time to grind.
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Aug 20, 2019 02:17
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So, I keep pulling off a move that no one else in my school can do effectively and I cannot even find videos online about it and was wondering if anyone could help me find more about it. The best way to describe it is a single leg ankle lock from inside back mount. Basically, I butterfly my lower leg around one of the feet in a back mount and then figure four with the other leg to put on pressure. I've gotten multiple purple belts with it, so it's not like it's a fluke. Like, I keep seeing vids online about using the opponent's other ankle to put pressure on it, but nothing that is just single leg. Like, most information I find looks something like this,  but instead of exploiting the opponent's crossed ankles, I just catch an ankle with the same leg in a butterfly and crank down Kinda like this, only the top leg here wraps around the ankle instead of being behind it 
Mel Mudkiper fucked around with this message at 06:44 on Aug 20, 2019 |
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Aug 20, 2019 06:31
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Feel free to continue to use that but that's not an effective move against experienced opponents. I can easily shift to relieve the pressure and can in fact also force your head forward to completely remove your ability to bring significant pressure to bear.
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Aug 20, 2019 07:17
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Yuns posted:Feel free to continue to use that but that's not an effective move against experienced opponents. I can easily shift to relieve the pressure and can in fact also force your head forward to completely remove your ability to bring significant pressure to bear. I mean, I imagine there are weaknesses and problems with it which is why I am trying to learn more about it. Does it have a name? Edit: just to be clear, I am not trying to brag or show off or anything, it's just been a bread and butter during rolls but no one at my school does it or knows much about it so I want to research it more Mel Mudkiper fucked around with this message at 07:29 on Aug 20, 2019 |
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Aug 20, 2019 07:24
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Is that "just" a body triangle?
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Aug 20, 2019 14:06
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I mean, I imagine there are weaknesses and problems with it which is why I am trying to learn more about it. Does it have a name? How's your back escape though? Purple belts are probably going reasonably nice with you to let you work your back escape and then you slap a janky ankle submission on. It's not going to break anything but crazy white belt invented submissions are scary. Nobody is familiar enough with it to know where the break point and they really really want a tap so just tap and say awesome because you're not defending something that anybody actually does and then the purple can get back to working their back takes. No point explaining anything to this WB because he's still dense enough to be trying to submit from the worst position instead of improving his escapes.
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Aug 20, 2019 14:36
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I just got to the part in the Danaher back attack DVD where he shows the counter to that ankle lock. Like Yuns said you just push their head forward and they lose the ability to arch and put pressure on the trapped ankle
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Aug 20, 2019 14:46
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Mel Mudkiper posted:The best way to describe it is a single leg ankle lock from inside back mount. Basically, I butterfly my lower leg around one of the feet in a back mount and then figure four with the other leg to put on pressure. I've gotten multiple purple belts with it, so it's not like it's a fluke. I think Mel is describing a straight ankle lock from the back. It's why it's suggested to not to idly cross your feet when in back mount. A white belt is catching purple belts in this consistently is weird. Neon Belly fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Aug 20, 2019 |
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Aug 20, 2019 14:53
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Neon Belly posted:Are you describing doing a straight ankle lock / why it's suggested to not to idly cross your feet when in back mount? A white belt is catching purple belts in this? You'd be surprised at the people I've caught in the venerable "don't cross your feet lock". Also hes describing a heel hook that you can reasonably get against lazy or unaware people, and since its not a common move most people are unaware below a certain level. You shouldn't rely on it as a submission but its a good way to get people to take their hook outs if they're the kind of lanky jerks who can basically grape vine your leg from behind you. edit: Postess with the Mostest posted:How's your back escape though? Purple belts are probably going reasonably nice with you to let you work your back escape and then you slap a janky ankle submission on. It's not going to break anything but crazy white belt invented submissions are scary. Nobody is familiar enough with it to know where the break point and they really really want a tap so just tap and say awesome because you're not defending something that anybody actually does and then the purple can get back to working their back takes. No point explaining anything to this WB because he's still dense enough to be trying to submit from the worst position instead of improving his escapes. Not a great attitude TBH. If you can't or won't defend a given submission, that's on you not the person who does it or even the technique. In a fight or competition you're not gonna take someones back, and when he goes to hit you with a janky looking ankle lock you're not gonna go "Heh, sorry bud, that's not a recognized technique, I'mma tap, but know you didn't "win"  ". Yea if the point of the roll is to work your back takes, sure, but if the point is to learn to finish from the back you can't just give up if someone does something unorthodox but still within the rule set.edit 2: It'd be like getting annoyed that you're working mount position and he's able to just ezekiel you from bottom mount. edit 3: The general you, not the specific you Postess. Not calling you out. Defenestrategy fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Aug 20, 2019 |
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Aug 20, 2019 15:04
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Defenestrategy posted:Not a great attitude TBH. If you can't or won't defend a given submission, that's on you not the person who does it or even the technique. In a fight or competition you're not gonna take someones back, and when he goes to hit you with a janky looking ankle lock you're not gonna go "Heh, sorry bud, that's not a recognized technique, I'mma tap, but know you didn't "win" Don't mind being called out. I'm really conservative with my bjj, almost 40 and any injury takes forever to heal. I compete a bit but I'm only doing this because the goal is to train, learn and exercise at something I don't hate. Early stage submission defense, love it. Late stage submission defense, let's do it if it's a choke or I'm rolling with someone I trust. Janky invented submission on small joint defense against white belts, risk (of being injured and not being able to train) greatly outweighs the benefit of getting better at defending random white belt spam. I guess the perceived offense comes back to judo's idea of mutual benefit. The purple goes easy on the white's back, works some c-game submissions or lets them half escape and recovers or whatever and improves his game while the white practices defending subs while trying to escape. Everyone gets better at high probability stuff. When the white belt starts spamming low probability wrist and ankle locks from the back that are only possible because the purple is giving them room to work, nobody's getting better at anything and jigoro and helio shake their head. You can just choke the white belt out quickly or tap but you aren't learning much either way and you're gonna be less likely to want to roll with that guy.
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Aug 20, 2019 16:50
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Postess with the Mostest posted:When the white belt starts spamming low probability wrist and ankle locks from the back that are only possible because the purple is giving them room to work, nobody's getting better at anything and jigoro and helio shake their head. You can just choke the white belt out quickly or tap but you aren't learning much either way and you're gonna be less likely to want to roll with that guy. Not at all, all of those kinds of attacks where someone is on your back and you go for a submission work exclusively because a person is being lazy with their leg placement, leg fencing, or even just knowing the proper defense. There's a fair world of difference between sitting in someones guard and letting them play the position, and putting your hand in your partners face with your arm extended and yelling armbar at them, and not liking when they wrist lock you instead. Both players will learn something, Purple learns not to put their feet there if they get got, white belt learns that the attack isn't high percentage if it fails. Defenestrategy fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Aug 20, 2019 |
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Aug 20, 2019 17:18
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No one arguing that a tap is a tap and that you can catch a guy napping when he take your back, the point is if you’re relying on a low percentage ankle lock when your back is taken to get out of that position, sooner or later (and really it should be sooner if the purple belts you train with are any good) the guys you train with will get wise to it and it will stop working and if you’re not also putting in the time working your defense and escapes in preparation for when your low percentage sub attempt fails, you’re going to have a bad time.
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Aug 20, 2019 17:29
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Postess with the Mostest posted:No point explaining anything to this WB because he's still dense enough to be trying to submit from the worst position instead of improving his escapes. Where did I say I don't also work on my escapes? Like, I try never to use it unless my escapes aren't working or I am about to get choked out. I know there are tons of problems with over-relying on a weird low percentage move but it also seems dumb to get choked out when I don't have to get choked out because I still have one last option to try. Again, my post wasn't about showing off or bragging, I just want to be able to find more information about it so I can refine it and understand the technique and strategy better so its not just a random spazzy move. Like my question was "I have had success with this move, where can I learn more about it?" and your response has been a mixture of "purple belts arent really tapping" "your purple belts arent real purple belts" and accusing me of taking shortcuts. I wasn't asking anyone's opinion on the move, because I have guys I roll with every day who can give me that kind of feedback. I just wanted to see if anyone here knew more about it.
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Aug 20, 2019 17:48
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Neon Belly posted:A white belt is catching purple belts in this consistently is weird. Agreed. I got caught with this once in my early days of being a blue belt and it never happened again and I am very close to getting my purple belt. Feet placement is something you learn early on.
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Aug 20, 2019 17:57
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Again, my post wasn't about showing off or bragging, I just want to be able to find more information about it so I can refine it and understand the technique and strategy better so its not just a random spazzy move. Not trying to pile on and I think it's a reasonable question, but I think what some folks are trying to explain is that it's just not the kind of move that's really capable of refinement. That's cool that it's working for now and there's nothing wrong with you going for it in the situations you describe, but most likely you're already taking it about as far as it'll get you and there's just not a lot more depth available, which is why there's not a lot of info available about it, and it'll always be, if not spazzy, kinda random and flukey because it depends on your partner not knowing a very simple counter (the Danaher one described above, pushing on the back of the head, which I haven't actually gotten to try myself but seems rock solid.)
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Aug 20, 2019 18:30
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Doing dumb subs that only kinda work is what makes grappling fun
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Aug 20, 2019 18:32
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I was trying to be nice about it but let me be blunt. Yes we all understand what you are doing. There isn't generally a specific name for it as it's just referred to as an ankle lock. No we don't have advice for you on how to refine it as it is not a submission that works well on higher level opponents and does not lead to other opportunities in a systematic way. EDIT: Maybe you've found a way to make it work well. There was a time when people didn't generally do arm in guillotines. But you'd have to figure out why it's so effective for you because the standard way is a poo poo tier sub. Yuns fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Aug 20, 2019 |
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Aug 20, 2019 18:53
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Doing dumb subs that only kinda work is what makes grappling fun Not empty quoting.
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Aug 20, 2019 19:23
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Where did I say I don't also work on my escapes? Like, I try never to use it unless my escapes aren't working or I am about to get choked out. I know there are tons of problems with over-relying on a weird low percentage move but it also seems dumb to get choked out when I don't have to get choked out because I still have one last option to try. BJJ is two games. There's the short game measured in points or taps. Then there's the long game measured in months where all the minutes can add up to real progress. You asked a question about the short game that revealed a huge hole in your long game which is that you're spending some amount of time on something that is going to stunt progress. It's not even really a logical move to do if you're about to get choked out. The guy just doesn't want a slightly sore ankle. In any kind of tournament, he'll eat that and choke you out. It's almost worse that you're throwing it on when you've already lost. Imagine two identical new white belts. Every time they get their back taken, one of them works and refines his escape the whole time. The other works his escape for half the time, spams low percentage for the rest. In 6 months, the first guy is going to have a pretty decent escape and be better at fundamentals of holding the back by understanding the escape better. The second guy is going to still kind of suck at back defense but occasionally get a tap from a lucky ankle lock against people who don't know the extremely simple defense which the first guy is going to learn at some point in about 10 minutes. Sorry for being a dick. I'm minmaxing your progress and really you should just do what is fun and who gives a poo poo how long it takes to get good, I'm really not one to preach on this after being a blue belt for 12 years BUT let me tell you that it gets way more fun once you have some good fundamentals because you can throw out even weirder stuff and recover if it goes terribly wrong.
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Aug 20, 2019 19:26
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